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Inseparable Playing Cards

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Inseparable Playing Cards
« on: January 26, 2016, 03:12:40 PM »
 

JackofDiamonds

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Hey everyone. I've been working on this for a couple weeks, and I'm interested to get some feedback. At the moment what I have is a card back, but the faces are coming next.

The goal of this project is to create cards for special occasions, like weddings and anniversaries, that people would actually want to play with. Too often you see gimmicky cards with photos or hearts splashed everywhere, cards you wouldn't want to be seen with. I'm aiming for a classy, timeless feel - the kind you buy two of so you'll still have a set when they wear out.
 

Re: Inseparable Playing Cards
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2016, 10:34:51 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hey everyone. I've been working on this for a couple weeks, and I'm interested to get some feedback. At the moment what I have is a card back, but the faces are coming next.

The goal of this project is to create cards for special occasions, like weddings and anniversaries, that people would actually want to play with. Too often you see gimmicky cards with photos or hearts splashed everywhere, cards you wouldn't want to be seen with. I'm aiming for a classy, timeless feel - the kind you buy two of so you'll still have a set when they wear out.

The design is rather attractive.  There are two things I want to point out for you, though - not necessarily negatives, but things to factor in when considering what changes if any to make to your design.

First, the design is a one-way back - you can clearly tell the card's orientation based on the back design.  For collectible cards, they generally don't sell as well as two-way designs do.  Poker players in general steer clear of one-way backs because by using a simple sorting method, a dishonest player could orient the cards in a way that tells him or her which are the high-value cards and which aren't.  It's not necessarily the kiss of death - just something to keep in mind.

Second, the design would be printed into the bleed.  Lots of card designs do this - it gives the card backs a rather distinctive look, especially when compared with your typical bordered back.  It does, however, have a drawback when it comes to longevity.  When playing cards are handled, shuffled, thrown across the room, etc., eventually the surface of the card will start to chip, exposing some of the white paper underneath.  For a white-bordered card, this is a non-issue - it's white on white, barely noticeable and only if you look hard.  For a card with a solid, dark color that prints into the bleed, the chipping becomes noticeable rather quickly, after only a small amount of handling.  The cards will start looking fairly shabby in very little time with use.  Magicians will sometimes avoid designs like this as well, generally when there's a dark color on one side and white or a light color on the other - certain magic tricks require that a card that's been flipped be concealed in the center of the deck somewhere, and with your design, this would leave a telltale line running around the deck's edge showing exactly where the hidden card is.  It's because for the rest of the deck, it's an alternating pattern of a white face with a dark face, but for that one card, its white face is against a white face and its dark face is against a dark face, leaving the pattern of light (L) and dark (D) like this from top to bottom (going left to right in this example, and notice the bold red letters):

top of deck > DLDL...DLDLLDDLDL...DLDL < bottom of deck.

There are ways to counter this edge issue with only small alterations to the design.  The simplest way would be to reduce the size of the design by a small percentage and give it a normal white border - it works, though it's not as attractive, especially to some collectors.  Some designers push for a more narrow border, which has a very attractive look, but depending on who's doing the printing and die cutting, there's a greater chance that a slightly off-center card will leave you with uneven borders that are glaringly obvious.  Another option would be to use a "Stinger"-style border, like the Bee Stinger playing cards used by some casinos - a short distance from the edge of the card, the pattern fades to white, leaving no hard borderline.  I've also seen designs where the pattern is faded to a lighter color - for example, a black back that fades to light gray at the edge.  Lighter colors will conceal edge chipping better - the lighter the color, the better the concealment.


Have you given any thought as to who will be doing the printing and what price point you'd be looking to set?  You have to be market-sensitive on this one - to most people, playing cards are playing cards; a fancy designer deck is no different to them than the pack of Bicycles at the drug store or the pack of cheapo cards from the dollar store.  You'd need to compete on price if you wanted to make a wedding or anniversary deck for the mass market, which would rule out a lot of quality printers doing the work for you.  You could focus on collectors, but then you're looking for a niche market inside of a niche market - collectors are a tiny fraction of the overall playing card market, and the number of them eager to celebrate an anniversary or wedding with a pack of cards is smaller still.  The most successful Kickstarter deck projects always succeed by having a healthy percentage of non-collectors in the mix, often a majority, in terms of number of backers - collectors only have an edge when it comes to purchasing power in the market, because while some collectors will buy a few dozen decks a month or more, the average USPC customer buys about one deck every eighteen months (some buy more, obviously, like typical paper-deck poker players, but others will have the same old deck in the kitchen drawer lying around for years before replacing it - again, to them, cards are cards; new or worn, doesn't matter).
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Re: Inseparable Playing Cards
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2016, 01:38:16 PM »
 

JackofDiamonds

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Hey Don,

Thanks so much for your feedback. Unfortunately, the two way design is there to stay. It's hard to get the flower to mirror without it looking ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure I'm already pushing the limits of detail, so resizing it so I can put in two is probably not a good idea.

If people are genuinely concerned about cheating with a two way design, wouldn't that be completely resolved by adding even one 180 degree rotation into the shuffle?

I was reading up on bordered versus borderless designs last night. The subject is a bit confusing due to people equating borderless with full bleed, but I think you've done a swell job of explaining what, exactly, the issues are. I recolored the design to allow for a white edged pseudo border.

My plan is to market to wedding planners and the like. It seems to me that collectors watch kickstarter pretty avidly on their own. I've gotten in contact with Legends, but leading with MPC with an option to upgrade isn't a bad idea, especially seeing as this is my first deck.

While I am orienting the deck towards romantic ideals, I'm trying to not make it so in-your-face that it could ONLY be used for Valentine's day or weddings. The rose is not overtly romantic, avoiding the typical view of a rose by looking down from the top, and the face cards will not be covered with hearts or blowing kisses or anything like that. The color scheme is muted, with more of a maroon feel than vibrant red. I'd like to think that these could be used for a guys' night without anyone really noticing or caring that the back of the card has a big flower on it.

But on the other hand, if you give a deck to your significant other or hand them out as favors at a wedding, there's no mistaking the romantic elements.

Thanks again. You're a veritable roving wikipedia.
 

Re: Inseparable Playing Cards
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 09:23:51 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Again, as I said, these aren't hard, fast rules you have to follow - making every deck the same in design would get boring fast.  One way decks do sell, but they're not as popular with certain people and at the same time, there are others that don't care or just find them attractive.  The huge numbers of bridge decks with a one-way design would attest to that, I'm sure.  As far as the counter to cheating by swinging the deck around, there's a few factors to consider for that to work - 1) your players would have to be aware of the cheating method and 2) the dealer would have to not be in on the cheating!

Marketing the design to wedding planners would be a good way to go.  So would selling it on Zazzle - but there's a poor signal-to-noise ratio there; lots of lame designs, very few that stand out strongly enough.  That, and the quality of Zazzle cards does leave a bit to be desired, though they do have USPC Bicycle faces in a few different varieties.

From the perspective of a collector, if a back design is white around the edge, it's bordered.  If a design has a color or pattern at the edge, one that was printed into the bleed area and through which the die cut the card from the deck sheet, it's borderless.  But if there's a border that goes around the back design that isn't white but functions like a white border in that it frames the design, it will often be referred to as a colored border, even though the color has to be printed into the bleed area in order to create that border.  In short, white borders would be the only cards not printed into the bleed.  These may or may not be accurate from the perspective of a designer, but they are roughly the definitions used by collectors.  But the fact that you get the concept behind having designs that print into the bleed is good!

While you're correct in that it's not an overtly romantic design, many guys would pass on it, I think, especially hardcore card players.  You'd need to somehow emphasize the clock number ring around the rose or some other element of the design, so the rose isn't the sole focus - maybe small clock faces in the corners?  With the giant rose being the dominant design feature and the supporting features looking like vines or branches, the design will most closely be associated with romance, followed in a distant second by gardening and a way-back third by Great Britain, England and/or Lady Diana...  Again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of.  A romantic design being launched while Valentine's Day is fresh in people's minds isn't the worst idea in the world!

The game plan of using MPC as the primary printer with LPCC as a stretch goal is sound.

Just for an experiment, try coloring the rose in the center inverse to the current color scheme you have - red with white details instead of white with red details.  You might like it better - or you might find it makes for a good second deck, since decks for players often sell nicely in paired designs - one deck is in play while the other is being shuffled.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 09:26:23 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Inseparable Playing Cards
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2016, 09:00:08 PM »
 

JackofDiamonds

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I wasn't excited about the reversed colors, but I attached it so you can see also.

I've also completed a King design that I think will work for my overall style. Monochromatic.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 09:08:10 PM by JackofDiamonds »
 

Re: Inseparable Playing Cards
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 09:13:21 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I wasn't excited about the reversed colors, but I attached it so you can see also.

I've also completed a King design that I think will work for my overall style. Monochromatic.

It could work, with some tweaking.  Your rose has a center that is inverse to the outer petals - that's what's throwing it off when you invert the colors with a simple, straight-up conversion.

The King is not bad, but it's very plain - some details would improve it a lot.  You could work on clothing detail work that's similar to the card's back art, make the design very cohesive that way.
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