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Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit

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Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« on: May 02, 2014, 10:38:37 AM »
 

badpete69

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So like some of you I was part of the Asylum fiasco and have never received my deck of cards. For months now I have been part of a basecamp email string where some people decided to take action. I am cut and pasting one of our major local news story on My Northwest.com

Washington state files first ever lawsuit over failed Kickstarter campaign
BY JOSH KERNS  on May 1, 2014 @ 4:33 pm (Updated: 5:34 pm - 5/1/14 )
 
Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson has filed the first ever lawsuit against a company that failed to deliver custom playing cards to donors on Kickstarter.
Ever wonder what happens to companies that raise money on Kickstarter but don't deliver on what they promised? If you mess with people in Washington state, the attorney general will come after you.
In what's the first consumer protection lawsuit in the nation involving crowdfunding, Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson today sued Ashville, Tenn.-based Altius Management and its founder Edward J. Polchlepek, otherwise known as Ed Nash.

Nash raised $25,146 from 810 backers in October 2012 - including at least 31 from Washington - for a playing card game called Asylum pushed on Kickstarter.

Project backers were promised the playing cards and other rewards with an estimated delivery date of December 2012. Ferguson says to date, the project has not been completed and none of the backers have received any of the promised items or any refunds. Nash and the company haven't communicated with donors since July 2013.

Kickstarter's terms of use make clear that companies are legally obligated to fulfill the promised rewards or provide consumer refunds.

"Consumers need to be aware that crowdfunding is not without risk," said Ferguson. "This lawsuit sends a clear message to people seeking the public's money: Washington state will not tolerate crowdfunding theft. The Attorney General's Office will hold those accountable who don't play by the rules."

The case is being handled by Assistant Attorney General Jake Bernstein, who tells KIRO Radio he's had a few failed Kickstarter campaigns of his own and wondered what happens when a company doesn't deliver.

"I started talking to people on Kickstarter and asked if there were any straightforward failures to deliver," he says.

Bernstein says he got a tip from a donor who didn't receive what was promised, and decided to pursue Nash when he learned of his failed campaign.

"The money went somewhere. So he got a lump sum from all of these backers and there's no excuse why they didn't get their cards," Nash says.

While the case is the first involving a crowdfunding campaign, Bernstein says the legal principles are no different than any other failure to deliver action. He says the goal is ultimately to get Nash to fulfill his obligation and produce and deliver the cards, or provide a refund to all the donors.

Kickstarter issued the following statement in response to the suit:

Tens of thousands of incredible projects have been brought to life through Kickstarter. We want every backer to have an amazing experience, and we're frustrated when they don't. We hope this process brings resolution and clarity to the backers of this project.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 10:39:10 AM by badpete69 »
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2014, 11:17:42 AM »
 

JacksonRobinson

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This is AWESOME news for both backers and also Creators. This will protect backers and help solid creators succeed with out having to have their backers cross their fingers in hopes of getting their rewards.
Jackson Robinson
www.kingswildproject.com
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2014, 11:21:26 AM »
 

badpete69

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I sincerely hope so Jackson.  Looks like the sneaky bastard dissolved his first company Altius menagement www.altiusmanagement.com/‎ and created a new one http://www.altiusproductions.com/. In any case it will be interesting to see what happens

I am also pasting a comment from our basecamp where a user seems to have been refunded through his bank. So this could possibly be another way to get some of your money back

o with a total of 3 kickstarters that have not fulfilled their contracts, I decided to look into how to get my money back.

I contacted Kickstarter. they don't give a shit. As expected.

I contacted Amazon. They did give a shit, but their policy is static that they can only reverse a transaction within 60 days. Amazon told me what I should do next.

At Amazon's suggestion, I contacted my bank and requested a chargeback on all three. I made clear that the charges were not unauthorized, but that the "goods and services promised were not provided."

remember that the Amazon FAQ states:

"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
"Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill."

Thus the promises they made are a promise to deliver goods and services. If they do not, you can get the money back through your bank.

Now, mind you my bank is "investigating" my claims, but I was all but assured that my claims would be accepted, and I have already received a partial refund.

It is not the result I want. But it is better than nothing. And while it is Amazon that will be losing the money, if it happens enough in regards to specific "creators" Amazon will have to take action. I just picture Amazon's lawyers filing a civil suit against "Ed Nash" and it makes me feel a lot better.
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2014, 04:41:08 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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For continuity's sake, I'm attaching the old Asylum deck topic to this, but leaving it with the new title.

EDIT: ...when I can find the blasted thing.  It's not turning up in searches.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 05:54:20 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2014, 06:08:04 PM »
 

badpete69

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now you know why I started a new thread hehe
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2014, 10:37:37 AM »
 

Lukeout

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This lawsuit is fascinating, and honestly surprising in a lot of ways (it's a state going after the creator, so it can only represent the state's backers, not all backers). I'll be curious where it ends up. Most likely the person they go after will just pay off those few backers to end it. I'd like to see something like this go to court some day. Just because Kickstarter says "creators are legally obligated to fulfill their promise" doesn't close the door on KS's responsibilities. Sort of like when you pay for parking and they say they are "not responsible for stuff stolen from your car" - doesn't mean you can's sue them for having stuff stolen out of your car (you can, and you'll almost always win as the court has ruled that paying for a service implies certain things no matter what sign they post).

As Kickstarter is NOT a bank, there is a reasonable question as to what service they are charging for. A court could easily rule that KS has a responsibility to do a minimum amount of follow-through/screening and if they don't they can be targeted for compensation. I don't think it'll go that way, but it certainly could.
"Design is nothing more or less than the ability to go from what exists to what is preferred."
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2014, 11:45:15 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I find it quite interesting as well.  While the standard for being found guilty in civil court is not as stringent as in criminal court, it's not impossible that the state's AG will in fact press criminal charges of fraud and wire fraud as well, particularly if the right evidence happens to turn up as a result of this case.  Now THAT is something I'd be interested in seeing - and I'd also be interested in seeing Kickstarter's reaction, because at some point, someone's almost certain to start pointing fingers in their direction.

I feel bad for the deck's artist.  He was screwed over in this as well - he signed over legal possession of the art and never got paid, to the best of my knowledge, so now he can't even get his deck art printed elsewhere.
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Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2014, 11:17:10 AM »
 

badpete69

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I have months of comments from the artist in our basecamp.  He is the one that help start taking these actions that led to the lawsuit. It was evident from the start that he got screwed as well and no one seems to blame him
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2014, 02:39:19 PM »
 

rousselle

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Also, the artist signed over a license to use the artwork for a specified time (a year?), and that time limit has passed. Technically, he's free to take his art elsewhere. The problem is, who would buy it at this point with the stench of the Atlius Mismangement project still clinging to it?
There are no 3's in rousselle. There are, however, two s's, two l's, two e's (but not in a row), an r, an o, and a u.
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2014, 08:18:37 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Also, the artist signed over a license to use the artwork for a specified time (a year?), and that time limit has passed. Technically, he's free to take his art elsewhere. The problem is, who would buy it at this point with the stench of the Atlius Mismangement project still clinging to it?

Actually, I think a lot of people would.  I know I would.
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playing card law sue
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2014, 06:41:24 PM »
 

Frost

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Re: playing card law sue
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 05:36:15 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/washington-sues-ed-nash-kickstarter-campaign-173707149.html

It's been a while, Frost.  Perhaps you didn't notice the pre-existing topic on this subject - the one with the correctly-worded title?

I'll just merge these together...
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Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 06:09:17 AM »
 

ruicorreia

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   These are, of course, good news: people must know that they can be prosecuted by their actions.

   But I must point this: i.m.o. Kickstarter has part of the responsability for not having proper instruments to prevent this from happening. It's rather irresponsable to promote so many projects and not provide any protection at all for the backers. And more, when backers complain about some projects not delivered, Kickstarter doesn't even answers.
   The luck of Kickstarter is that the vast majority of project owners are showing to be serious persons.
   
   
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 06:13:39 AM by ruicorreia »
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Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 06:51:45 AM »
 

Yashi

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I was surprised when the news of this law suit appeared in my local news channel.
 

Washington sued playing card kickstater creator
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2014, 01:55:04 PM »
 

John B.

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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/washington-sues-ed-nash-kickstarter-campaign-173707149.html

The cards are stacked against a Nashville, Tenn., entrepreneur who allegedly failed to deliver on promises he made to backers of his successful Kickstarter campaign.

In a lawsuit filed May 1, Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson claims Edward J. Polchlepk III (professionally known as Ed Nash) never delivered the horror-themed deck of playing cards he promised to hundreds of campaign supporters. Nash ran the campaign under his company, Altius Management, which is described as an entertainment and artist management firm.

more info if you click the link. But hey it looks like someone finally is getting sued for not sending rewards out. anyone here back this project?
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Washington sued playing card kickstater creator
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 01:56:12 PM »
 

badpete69

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John

We already have that topic covered a few thread down.  Merging your topic

And yes I was part of this lawsuit from the beginning being in Washington state. We have had a basecamp website for over a year now
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 01:57:58 PM by badpete69 »
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2014, 01:57:51 PM »
 

John B.

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I was just about to lock it because I noticed this. lol, you beat me by seconds.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2014, 01:59:26 PM »
 

badpete69

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No worries bud.  Like i was saying in the previous post, about 1 year ago the artist Milan and others created a basecamp website and I have been part of it since the beginning. Lots of info came out on there. I should go through the details and pull out the good nuggets
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 04:05:54 PM »
 

rousselle

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Heyyyy, I live in Washington State (as you know, BadPete). Too late for me to join in this base camp you mention?

There are no 3's in rousselle. There are, however, two s's, two l's, two e's (but not in a row), an r, an o, and a u.
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2014, 01:10:37 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Kickstarter today is a lot like eBay was in the beginning, a sort of unregulated "Wild West" where just enough purchases turned into scams that people took notice and slowed or stopped their spending there.  Only then did eBay take action, now offering all kinds of buyer protections.  It's Kickstarter's time to do the same thing instead of kicking these projects under the rug and grinning for the cameras.  If eBay can make buyer protection work, why couldn't Kickstarter?

Imagine what Wall Street would be like without the SEC around to meddle and you'll have a rough picture of what Kickstarter is doing now, acting like they have no liability at all.  But one could argue that by knowingly permitting fraud to take place in their market, they become complicit in the fraud as an accomplice.  In simpler terms, the fraud can't occur is there's no marketplace, and KS provides the (perfectly unregulated) marketplace that allows fraud to flourish.
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Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2014, 01:38:14 AM »
 

AlbinoDragon

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Can anyone get us in contact with the original artist? If it's true that the artwork is now available, we'd be interested in finding a way to get this deck into print and trying to help the backers recoup at least part of their pledges.
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2014, 11:47:35 AM »
 

badpete69

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Let me try to contact him and I will let you know
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2014, 12:35:33 PM »
 

BastianBJ

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If the cards could be printed, that would be a dream scenario! But no matter what, let justice be done! I have zero respect or sympathy for scammers
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2014, 10:47:36 PM »
 

badpete69

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I have been asked by the office of the attorney general to do an interview on TV on this topic... Should I do it?
 

Re: Asylum Playing Cards Lawsuit
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2014, 12:05:42 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I have been asked by the office of the attorney general to do an interview on TV on this topic... Should I do it?

Why not?  Just find out who will be interviewing you. and if possible, what the questions will be so you can prepare your answers.  I don't think the AG would be asking this of you if he didn't think it would improve the case.  You can mention your connection to this forum if you wish and the opportunity presents itself.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 12:06:04 AM by Don Boyer »
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