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Kickstarter "Successful Failures"

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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2013, 06:09:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Actually, the most important thing that Ratledge wants to get through is that kickstarter shouldn't let campaign creators start a new campaign until their previous one is fulfilled. Which makes a lot of sense.

To some degree, I do agree with that.  Your typical Joe Designer on KS is a first-timer and in some cases not just new to design but new to the world of business.  It kills me when I see projects literally being put together by children who really don't know what their doing (like the one who thought he could deliver a USPC-made deck for $1,000) and their none-too-knowledgeable parents allow it.

But what about situations where someone's got a small company working on Kickstarter, pulling together projects, getting them shipped, creatingnew ones, etc.  You throw in that requirement, then suddenly that company has to go into "serial project" mode, income potential is drastically curtailed and people get laid off (people who probably weren't even making much in the first place).  There are so many examples of companies that would be crushed by an onerous requirement such as that, and there are competing websites they can go to for micro-financing.

Worse than all of that, if creators are restricted to making one projects at a time, not starting a new one until they complete delivery on the old one, Kickstarter itself would suffer a dramatic loss of income - I can't see them as being willing to do this.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 06:10:58 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2013, 07:51:43 AM »
 

Utterfool

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In case you didn't know, your sister site the UC is planning on doing the same thing your trying to do. http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2597 Interesting reading.  It all makes sense Kickstarter has been around for what 3 years and now we want to show the bad apples.  This will hopefully deter other scammers and bring people to your site for more information. I would say you have some time.  I have noticed a significant decline of activity at the UC.  I wonder why?  At the UC, I do not see a lot of deck creators responding to the posts that people have set up for them.  They do have a lot of lurkers, but it takes people to provide content.

Sister site?  More like second cousin!  :))  Just kidding...  Actually, it would be more like the site of the kid next door...  There's no relation other than sharing some members in common.

The topic refers to a campaign that Mr. Ratledge wants to see to fruition about getting Kickstarter to force a clause into their creator contracts that requires they supply their backers before entering into any retail sale arrangements with vendors.  The thing is, however, that it would dramatically increase the cost of making a deck (and the fact that it would affect ALL projects, not just decks, make it unlikely to pass).

When a designer makes a deck and has a few retailers in place who placed bulk orders for decks, the usual practice is to have USPC break up the shipment to go to the various destinations - for example, Joe Player makes Joe's Deck, he has AceKing, JP and PokerStud52 lined up to buy in bulk, so he arranges for USPC to ship those bulk orders straight to the retailers with the remainder coming to him so he can divvy, pack and ship them to all the backers.  USPC will break up a larger shipment like this at no extra charge, or so I'm told.

If Ratledge's rule went into effect, all the decks would have to be shipped to Joe Player or his fulfillment center.  Then while dealing with shipping out all the tiny one- and two-deck orders, he'd have to have the retailer bulk orders shipped from his place, at his expense, and he'd have to sit on the entire thing until all those other backer orders were completed.  If he got Larry's Mint to make some coins for the campaign and Larry was late on delivering, he's still forced to wait on shipping to the retailers and has all those cards taking up space in either his apartment or at the fulfillment center - which I'm sure would be charging for storage if delivery had to be delayed, since his project is tying up valuable storage space for other projects they've contracted to deliver for other companies.  The problem gets compounded when he's dealing with Larry's Mint (coins), Jane's Print Shop (art prints), Jessica's Dice Emporium and Factory (dice) and Bishop's T-Shirt Extravaganza (custom t-shirts).  A delay from any of them delays shipments from leaving and keeps the cards out of retailers' hands, which they'll only tolerate for so long before canceling the agreement to buy.

It's just a mess to try adding such a requirement, and it would be not just difficult to enforce, but depending on the laws of the various states and countries, it might not even stand the litmus test to determine if it's legal to have such a requirement.

I have noticed a significant decline of activity at the UC. I wonder why? At the UC, I do not see a lot of deck creators responding to the posts that people have set up for them.

That's because the deck creators keep getting banned left and right. It's pretty much the Ratledge Show over at the UC these days, and he's no Don Boyer.

I hope that's a compliment...  :))  Since I think it is, thanks for that.

BTW, has anyone noticed that the UC forum's clock display on the home page is an hour fast?


Actually

I can vouch for Jessica. You will definitely get your dice from Jessica's Dice Emporium and Factory but she did simply take on way too much and is now backed up a good bit.
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2013, 11:33:41 AM »
 

AlbinoDragon

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more like the site of the kid next door...
..who is twelve years old and deletes any posts that contain actual facts that prove them wrong.

On the topic of the proposed rule, I can understand why it seems like a good idea on the surface but it wouldn't work well for companies like ours. It may take a few months for us to complete the artwork, but when waiting on other companies' production cycles (and for licensing approvals of soft proofs, etc) there isn't any cash flow for the company. We can create projects far faster than our vendors can produce them so there is a huge bottleneck there. It doesn't make a lot of sense for us to sit around producing projects that may or may not be funded. Instead, we much prefer Kickstarter as not only a way of funding said projects, but to gauge interest in those so that we aren't just picking arbitrary numbers for print runs.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:35:41 AM by AlbinoDragon »
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2013, 11:44:49 AM »
 

Firdawesome

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..who is twelve years old and deletes any posts that contain actual facts that prove them wrong.

Some of us noticed the deleted posts. Guess some people can't stand being wrong (hilarious to see a know-it-all get taken down a peg or two).
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2013, 11:52:00 AM »
 

MagikFingerz

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On the topic of the proposed rule, I can understand why it seems like a good idea on the surface but it wouldn't work well for companies like ours. It may take a few months for us to complete the artwork, but when waiting on other companies' production cycles (and for licensing approvals of soft proofs, etc) there isn't any cash flow for the company. We can create projects far faster than our vendors can produce them so there is a huge bottleneck there. It doesn't make a lot of sense for us to sit around producing projects that may or may not be funded. Instead, we much prefer Kickstarter as not only a way of funding said projects, but to gauge interest in those so that we aren't just picking arbitrary numbers for print runs.
I still think designers/project managers should complete the artwork BEFORE starting a kickstarter. As has been proven, it doesn't take much time to go from the completion of a project to getting everything printed and shipped out if everything is ready to go. Designers should be confident enough in their work to put the time in before collecting money from people. Modifications can be done along the way, of course.

Btw, if your vendors can't produce your products fast enough, you'll just end up making kickstarters with a projected delivery date of several years into the future  :-\
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:55:06 AM by MagikFingerz »
- Tom
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2013, 01:55:09 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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On the topic of the proposed rule, I can understand why it seems like a good idea on the surface but it wouldn't work well for companies like ours. It may take a few months for us to complete the artwork, but when waiting on other companies' production cycles (and for licensing approvals of soft proofs, etc) there isn't any cash flow for the company. We can create projects far faster than our vendors can produce them so there is a huge bottleneck there. It doesn't make a lot of sense for us to sit around producing projects that may or may not be funded. Instead, we much prefer Kickstarter as not only a way of funding said projects, but to gauge interest in those so that we aren't just picking arbitrary numbers for print runs.
I still think designers/project managers should complete the artwork BEFORE starting a kickstarter. As has been proven, it doesn't take much time to go from the completion of a project to getting everything printed and shipped out if everything is ready to go. Designers should be confident enough in their work to put the time in before collecting money from people. Modifications can be done along the way, of course.

While I logically understand the "launch the project and work on it while its going" method, I myself could never attempt that. I would stress myself out beyond capacity and would not be able to produce the proper end result. My process involves a lot of design, pondering, refining and reworking and if I was forced to cram it all into a a few weeks I fear that I'd end up with something pretty poor.

Some people can do it well (Jackson would be one of those few) but particularly for first timers I think it's a very poor choice to not have everything done and accounted for in advance.
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2013, 03:56:11 PM »
 

Casual Pixels

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The Hedge and The Hedge Special Edition (stripper deck).

Have sent many emails to Justin ("Faro" cards) and have been lied to repeatedly about the state of affairs. I know that some received their decks, but the comments section in all his KS projects feature people who have been burned.

I don't think he set out to be a thief, but it seems very unlikely that he has any intention of fulfilling a large number of orders.

 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2013, 07:35:08 PM »
 

xela

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Actually, the most important thing that Ratledge wants to get through is that kickstarter shouldn't let campaign creators start a new campaign until their previous one is fulfilled. Which makes a lot of sense.

It only makes sense in the playing card market, which is a tiny fraction of KS's userbase. There is also no way of tracking whether or not something is fulfilled, except maybe comments, but KS isn't going to invest manpower to track individual comments for projects.

Now the bigger question is why KS has no internal method for marking as shipped, providing tracking numbers if applicable, providing refunds and working directly with people who pledge, instead of using silly workarounds like PayPal.

And example of why waiting until a pledge is fulfilled clause would be stupid is something like a movie or videogame project. A pledge along the lines of "you will be at the premier/launch party" may be years away, while all the other rewards could be months away. I'm really not sure why KS would fuck themselves and their project creators over financially with weird clauses.

Especially when programming proper customer-creator functions would take all of a couple days and a couple programmers.
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2013, 08:18:48 PM »
 

MagikFingerz

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Actually, the most important thing that Ratledge wants to get through is that kickstarter shouldn't let campaign creators start a new campaign until their previous one is fulfilled. Which makes a lot of sense.

It only makes sense in the playing card market, which is a tiny fraction of KS's userbase. There is also no way of tracking whether or not something is fulfilled, except maybe comments, but KS isn't going to invest manpower to track individual comments for projects.
Actually (again), kickstarter just added a checkbox that you can tick on the projects you've received your pledge rewards from. Though, as I said in my message to them, it should be made into TWO checkboxes so you can also tick "Not Received" (after a project has passed its projected delivery date). I'm sure a lot of people won't even notice this new feature, and hence be counted as "Not Received" automatically.

Now the bigger question is why KS has no internal method for marking as shipped, providing tracking numbers if applicable, providing refunds and working directly with people who pledge, instead of using silly workarounds like PayPal.

That's because they don't WANT to be involved, ie they don't want to be liable. They want to take their cut and leave. No, they haven't said that, but it's abundantly clear.


And example of why waiting until a pledge is fulfilled clause would be stupid is something like a movie or videogame project. A pledge along the lines of "you will be at the premier/launch party" may be years away, while all the other rewards could be months away. I'm really not sure why KS would fuck themselves and their project creators over financially with weird clauses.

Those special pledge levels should obviously not count towards something like that. Exceptions to a few pledges within one project shouldn't be a problem to make. And you sound like it would be an automatic process; with the new feature that I mentioned above, it should be no problem for a kickstarter employee to take a quick look and mark the project as "Fulfilled".
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2013, 12:25:34 AM »
 

xela

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I wasn't aware KS added that feature, although back when I did my project they didn't even require you to fill out a "risks and challenges" form.

You'd probably want a certain % requirement for getting marked as fulfilled, since tossing a backer the power to completely kill a start-up by checking "not received" would be silly.

As for KS liability, their ToS have almost nothing to do with legal liability. When you agree to a website's ToS, it's not even legally binding (at least not in the USA). If they got involved, they could just as easily provide tools for project creators to work with their backers and still maintain their cut.

I'm not sure how they do it now, but when I was shipping I got my addresses in some horribly formatted Excel spreadsheet that had an abundance of errors and absolutely no sorting to it. That's it. Meanwhile, if I sell on eBay/Amazon/PayPal and literally anywhere else I get amazing tools to manage my sales. And guess what? If I sell you something on eBay, eBay isn't liable for it, just like I am not liable on this forum for sales made in STISOs by other people.

Considering how small the KS team is, it's probably just extreme laziness on their part. Heck, try sending an email to their support. You'd be lucky to hear back at all!
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2013, 02:22:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Actually

I can vouch for Jessica. You will definitely get your dice from Jessica's Dice Emporium and Factory but she did simply take on way too much and is now backed up a good bit.

:))  I've missed that sense of humor!

We've gotten heavily sidetracked with the debate over "Ratledge's Rule" here, so let's rein it in and continue to focus on the real topic here - an effort to track who's been burned by a KS creator and try using the state attorneys general to hold them accountable for their actions.  The only way to clean up KS is to show people that there are consequences for totally taking a flyer on your project and leaving everyone empty-handed.

Who else has been burned before, and by which projects?  Only count those that to date still haven't delivered, haven't updated in an excessive period of time and for which you personally have pledged.
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2013, 10:28:32 AM »
 

John B.

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Quicksilver. Say what you want about him delivering but he only updates when someone message kickstarter about him not sending rewards. After his black friday sale there was no new info.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2013, 05:34:07 PM »
 

JacksonRobinson

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There are tons of rules and guidelines that can be put into place, on both Kickstarters side and the backers side. But the most powerful rule that will never be overturned is a backers ability to not swipe their own card.

Of course, a few creators have failed, and another few creators have straight up committed fraud, and that sucks for everyone. (I backed founders myself so I understand the backers side) I encourage everyone to put the creators to the test, grill them, ask them questions and if they don't answer to your liking don't back them, don't swipe your card.

On the topic of designing 100% before launching. It is different for everyone. I have had numerous chats with Paul Carpenter about that very topic and it really boils down to the creator. Should a first timer do it absolutely not. (Wait a minute, you did it jerk) Your right I did do it but I also had almost 12 years of design and package design experience before coming to the table.

Who ever the creator is put them through the gauntlet, see what they are made of. Now having done 3 projects, I can sniff out someone who hasn't done their homework within about 10 seconds of them opening their mouths.

One of the things your backing is the person and the style of that persons project. I will back Paul's projects everytime without even seeing the cards, same with UUSI. Paul and I run a completely different style of project and that's awesome. If they were all the same their would be no individuality and also accountability between creator and backer. When I back Paul or UUSI I know exactly the quality and attention to detail that I'm going to get every-time, no matter what the theme or concept.

Sure it takes time and a track record to build that respect. But we as backers can put he same standard on rookies as well. Expect the same quality, attention to detail, and planning from everyone even the 14 year old brat who feels like putting together a deck after their nightly session of COD. If you demand the highest standards from everyone the weak, unprepared, and uneducated will quickly realize they have more learning to do and more development to do as an artist and a businessmen. That mentality will revolutionize the industry and also the standards.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 05:35:11 PM by JacksonRobinson »
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2013, 12:43:09 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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On the topic of designing 100% before launching. It is different for everyone. I have had numerous chats with Paul Carpenter about that very topic and it really boils down to the creator. Should a first timer do it absolutely not. (Wait a minute, you did it jerk) Your right I did do it but I also had almost 12 years of design and package design experience before coming to the table.

I remember when Lance Miller came to KS with his Actuators project.  He'd had a very successful release of his Bicycle Gargoyles through Diavoli and wanted to be a little more independent this time around.  However, he had relatively little of the art done going into the first project for the color deck, which resulted in him being several weeks off of his scheduled delivery date.  So here's a case of an experienced designer who shouldn't have done what you, Jackson, already did!

I think it really does boil down to the individual and their capabilities.  When I was in high school, I had a serious aptitude for computer programming.  In my Computer Math III class, I was not challenged in the least by the work that was being assigned, so I spend most of my class time tackling my own side projects to challenge myself - and I played some video games!  One day, the teacher gave us an assignment in the last five minutes of class, explained the entire assignment top to bottom, and when the bell rang, I handed him a piece of paper.  He said, "What's this?"  I replied, "The homework assignment - it's already done."  I never studied for a single test, including the final, and never scored less than 100.

And it was the worst thing that I and the school could ever have done, leaving me in that class.   Other students saw what I was doing, saw I was getting great grades and tried emulating what I did to some degree, or at least the fun parts like playing the video games.  As a result, their scores suffered, some close to the point of failing.  What was as easy as breathing for me was a lot more challenging for them.

Getting back to designing a KS deck project, it's probably a good idea to have somewhere between 50% and 95% of the work completed, depending on your level of expertise in design.  Not 100%, but close to it - if you're 100% done, you have no room to account for changes your backers may find desirable.  You really have to know yourself to do that, and many first timers won't have the experience under their belts to know themselves well enough to gauge this properly, especially those first timers who never worked in design before - a young kid who toys around and knows a little about Photoshop and almost nothing about deadlines.

If you're nearly completed when you launch, don't blow the whole wad at once - use reveals.  It's what some designers do on their decks - a percentage of their art is completed before the project, but they don't reveal it on the outset and leave it at that.  They tease it out over the course of the campaign, particularly as new works are completed leading to that 100% mark so when the project is done, they've got it pretty well locked down and are either within a few days of submitting art to USPC or are completely ready, no need to wait.

I've heard of people wanting to hold off on showing an entire deck because they're paying someone else to do the design work and they don't want to pay the artist yet for the full job because they don't want to risk their cash on a project that might fail..  These projects tend to flounder - you have some fantastic vision in your head of what you want, but couldn't get it down on paper or into a computer hard drive.  If you have the funds, you have to show people what their getting - only a handful of backers (cough-GALAXY-cough-CARDS-cough-THREE-cough) would be willing to shell out on a deck that they haven't even seen the full work for yet.  That also holds true for an artist that isn't close enough to finished by project's end, leaving more work yet to do.

NOW, LADIES AND GENTS, it's been a lovely tangent, but can we get back to the topic, please?  It's a lovely topic, too, right?  Feel free to make a new topic on this subject in the design board - it would generate a lively discussion, I think.  :))
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 12:43:47 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2014, 07:57:05 PM »
 

vmagic

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It's funny how people talk about running a business via KS. Last I checked KS was a way of launching products and ideas, not a way of maintaining a business. I think some of these companies should have enough of a following to not need KS anymore.

Btw, Seelie just made an update making a bunch of excuses and offering 25% refunds, like what the hell! Is that even allowed on KS terms? Definitely would say not to back any of his projects.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 07:59:09 PM by thecardcollector »
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2014, 08:22:28 PM »
 

Lukeout

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I view KS like I view Ebay. It started for one reason (selling PEZ disposers over on Ebay), and then morphed into a tool that folks use lots of different ways. Ebay lets you do "non-auctions" even (buy it now). KS will have growing pains and sadly, they will never have the revenue of Ebay to invest in their tools and website. I've been to their offices and it still felt like a start-up when I was there about 18 months ago.

Some folks will run entire businesses through KS and I say "good for them!" Others will be normal people attempting to reach a life-goal, and super-famous folks will use it to skirt the "normal" way of doing things. Good for them all I say!

Eventually, the little folks will lose out on the % of eyeballs they can attract, but hopefully KS will grow the total number of eyeballs, allowing for the little guy to make it too.

As for rules, KS has frightening few of them, enforced in a less-than-consistent way. They do try to make sure that creators don't start a second campaign until they have proven they can deliver one. But once you prove yourself, they give you more room. Because I've always delivered on time or early, I can vouch for the fact that they give you more room to run.
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2014, 04:44:16 PM »
 

vmagic

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Well Fox is Nashville will be doing a story on the Asylum deck and yours truly got interviewed for it, should be on tonight.
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2014, 06:07:59 PM »
 

jwats01

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Well Fox is Nashville will be doing a story on the Asylum deck and yours truly got interviewed for it, should be on tonight.

Please post a link when you have it. I'd love to see it.

I totally missed this post before today. I've been burned by the following:
Founders Playing Cards
Fund Michael Frömmer's 1616 Silver Bicycle® Playing Cards
A Victorian Adventure Custom Bicycle Playing Cards
Seelie: Playing Cards with a Touch of Fairy Magic
The Type Deck - Typography Playing Cards printed by USPCC

I got cards from the Mustache project, but still waiting for Royal Wilderness and Alice of Wonderland Playing Cards - Gold & Silver Editions

Believe it or not, I'm much more selective now on choosing projects to back.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 07:43:54 PM by jwats01 »
Check out every Kickstarter Deck project - current & archived along with some great Deck designer/artist interviews:

http://www.phillycardco.com
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2014, 07:51:48 PM »
 

vmagic

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I think the Type deck might still be ok. It will on tonight at 930 pm central time on www.fox17.com
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2014, 10:45:40 PM »
 

vmagic

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Well according to the news Nash still claims he will deliver the goods, but I'm doubtful.
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2014, 01:49:54 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think the Type deck might still be ok. It will on tonight at 930 pm central time on www.fox17.com

Here's a link to the actual article on the site, including video of a Skype interview with Victor:
http://www.fox17.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/waste-watch-crowd-funding-pitfalls-eric-alvarez-19645.shtml

One of the observations of the Tennessee Better Business Bureau is that crowdfunding sites such as Kickstarter are virtually unregulated.  Gee, really?  How long did it take to reach THAT conclusion?!?

UPDATE - the link changed:
http://www.fox17.com/news/features/waste-local/stories/waste-watch-crowd-funding-pitfalls-eric-alvarez-62.shtml
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 01:53:49 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2014, 08:05:51 PM »
 

vixentorgames

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I have been very lucky, but also very choosy. The only playing card projects I have not received are the ones that aren't due yet. I did back a board game that is now a year late, but I looked around a little and I am pretty sure this is not a board game site.

So, uh, carry on.
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2014, 08:50:30 PM »
 

DarkDerp

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It's that preflight stage when the real world and its restrictions collide with the infinite possibilities of design that things get messy. I always felt bad/hated in house designers after getting their first proofs. Spot colors, angle set, paper grain, coverage there is no way a computer screen is gonna match. Add the fact that customer proofs are never printed on the press a whole new set of production nightmares begin.


In my opinion a kickstarter project's design should be finished, cause  9 times out of 10 "ready to go"  couldn't be farther from the truth.
I like to call paper coatings a finish. It makes Don happy.
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2014, 01:45:09 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's that preflight stage when the real world and its restrictions collide with the infinite possibilities of design that things get messy. I always felt bad/hated in house designers after getting their first proofs. Spot colors, angle set, paper grain, coverage there is no way a computer screen is gonna match. Add the fact that customer proofs are never printed on the press a whole new set of production nightmares begin.


In my opinion a kickstarter project's design should be finished, cause  9 times out of 10 "ready to go"  couldn't be farther from the truth.

By that you mean "finished before launch", I presume?  If so, I agree.

It still doesn't alter the fact that there will be discrepancies between your vision as seen in RGB on your computer screen and the finished product created in CMYK.  Some of the worse ones I've seen look dark and muddy because the colors lacked sufficient contrast from each other to stand out.

The thing of it is, in this case, it look a lot more like a case of fraud rather than a case of "the cards didn't come out right".  If I'm not mistaken, this is the guy who was trying to convince his backers (myself included) that the job was already printed and that USPC was awaiting payment for it.  It's total bulls***, of course, because USPC won't even go to press without the cash up front and a signed contract to go with it.

A lot of crowdfunding scammers probably saw this as a good opportunity to raise cash fast and try to disappear.  They're learning that their backers are often tenacious in their information gathering and that despite Kickstarter's utterly lackadaisical attitude to fraud, various attorneys-general take a dim view of it and are willing to build cases against them.  It may even extend into FBI territory as the fraud often crosses state lines by "telephonic means", making it a form of wire fraud.

I don't know about you, but the last thing I would want, especially if I was a scammer, would be FBI agents putting on their boots and crawling up my ass...
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2014, 11:57:35 AM »
 

DarkDerp

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It's that preflight stage when the real world and its restrictions collide with the infinite possibilities of design that things get messy. I always felt bad/hated in house designers after getting their first proofs. Spot colors, angle set, paper grain, coverage there is no way a computer screen is gonna match. Add the fact that customer proofs are never printed on the press a whole new set of production nightmares begin.


In my opinion a kickstarter project's design should be finished, cause  9 times out of 10 "ready to go"  couldn't be farther from the truth.

By that you mean "finished before launch", I presume?  If so, I agree.

It still doesn't alter the fact that there will be discrepancies between your vision as seen in RGB on your computer screen and the finished product created in CMYK.  Some of the worse ones I've seen look dark and muddy because the colors lacked sufficient contrast from each other to stand out.

The thing of it is, in this case, it look a lot more like a case of fraud rather than a case of "the cards didn't come out right".  If I'm not mistaken, this is the guy who was trying to convince his backers (myself included) that the job was already printed and that USPC was awaiting payment for it.  It's total bulls***, of course, because USPC won't even go to press without the cash up front and a signed contract to go with it.

A lot of crowdfunding scammers probably saw this as a good opportunity to raise cash fast and try to disappear.  They're learning that their backers are often tenacious in their information gathering and that despite Kickstarter's utterly lackadaisical attitude to fraud, various attorneys-general take a dim view of it and are willing to build cases against them.  It may even extend into FBI territory as the fraud often crosses state lines by "telephonic means", making it a form of wire fraud.

I don't know about you, but the last thing I would want, especially if I was a scammer, would be FBI agents putting on their boots and crawling up my ass...

I was was going to say a group of  computer savy kids could do more harm than the FBI, but that was before I knew  butts were under the FBIs jurisdiction

.

Has anyone ever been prosecuted?  It seems like there would be a mountain of proof.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 11:58:37 AM by DarkDerp »
I like to call paper coatings a finish. It makes Don happy.