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Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors

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Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2013, 10:52:23 PM »
 

Anthony

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I know we're straying away from the 2 decks in question, but it seems that there is some interest in the differences between Original releases and re-releases.

So I got a couple of Deck Ones today, 1st Editions from what was in the description. I did my homework as best I could and once I took some pics noticed this difference also. I know the series 2's have a "distressed" look to the box, but this is a little more obvious.

Pick from T11's site of the Tuck box opening from the Deck One Second Edition. It's notched and it looks like there is a roman numeral "II" on the lid.


This is the lid from the decks I received today, 1st Edition...straight lid, no notch. The box itself has a very smooth coloring and no signs of "Distress"
 

Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 12:01:19 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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So this thread has helped me out tremendously. As I was going through the decks I have so far, I noticed a ton of differences from deck to deck. Which I thought was interesting, because I never would have imagined such variances on playing cards. I'm familiar with it in the action figure realm, I collected those for years, and was a completionist. But crap, seeing the differences between just 3 decks  has made me realize the completionist is going to have to take a backseat.

I noticed with the Arcane decks, a few came with no seal. Two white and two black, some have it, some don't. From what I gather, the E on the bottom signifies older prints where the eagle is present on newer ones. Did they abandon seals on the newer prints?

I told you that being a completist was a terrible idea with playing cards...  :))

The best guess is that Ellusionist had a run where the seals were either forgotten by accident or not ready in time and the cards couldn't wait because of the demand for them.  Since Arcanes have custom seals, it seems unlikely that they'd abandon them, especially since the current trend is for custom seals rather than no seal at all.  You could say Ellusionist was ahead of the curve on that one!  Don't know if it would be true, but you could say it!  :))

In the last few months, Ellusionist has "split" into two companies, sort of - the second one is the Ellusionist Playing Card Company, and that's the one with the bird logo.  It's bound to make spectators curious when your playing cards were made by a magic company, right?  :))  The new logo came into being around the same time they released their Texas-sized close-up mat, which has the logo emblazoned across the center.  They appear to be keeping the "E" logo for the magic gear and using the bird logo just for the playing cards and card accessories.


Pick from T11's site of the Tuck box opening from the Deck One Second Edition. It's notched and it looks like there is a roman numeral "II" on the lid.

This is the lid from the decks I received today, 1st Edition...straight lid, no notch. The box itself has a very smooth coloring and no signs of "Distress"

Most collectors picked up on those differences immediately when they were released.  The Roman numeral "II" is actually the Arabic numeral "11", as in Theory11.  They often find ways to fit an "11" into the designs of many of their decks, especially on the tuck boxes.

The idea for the second edition box was that people noticed that as they carried around their DeckONE decks, the metallic finish on the tuck boxes started to show wear.  On most tucks this would be terrible news, but on these it made the "metal" looks aged and weathered, which a lot of people thought was pretty cool.  So version two comes "pre-distressed".  It's the only deck I've ever seen that effect on.  But as mentioned before, the cards in the box are 100% identical between the two versions.

Thankfully, T11 appears to have stopped calling such improvements "version two" and simply calls them improvements, such as when a new print run of the Sentinels was created with an improved finish and some slight design tweaks to the box.  Most collectors hated that, though there are a few who are a little more tightly wound than most - they consider even slight print run variations to be different versions, such as when the version one Guardians had a slight tweak to the T11 logo on the bottom of the box.  I was trying to buy some version two decks from him, as advertised on eBay, but he was actually selling the second print run of version one.  When I explained there was a wholly new version that was released, he insisted that it must be version three, regardless of what T11 was calling it, never mind that it's their deck, right?  :))
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 12:02:18 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2013, 12:20:30 AM »
 

Anthony

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Quote
The Roman numeral "II" is actually the Arabic numeral "11", as in Theory11.  They often find ways to fit an "11" into the designs of many of their decks, especially on the tuck boxes.
I love little tidbits like this Don, Thank you. My education just keeps expanding around here, lol

Quote
When I explained there was a wholly new version that was released, he insisted that it must be version three, regardless of what T11 was calling it, never mind that it's their deck, right?  :))
Perception is a strange thing sometimes, lol.
 

Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2013, 12:58:22 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The Roman numeral "II" is actually the Arabic numeral "11", as in Theory11.  They often find ways to fit an "11" into the designs of many of their decks, especially on the tuck boxes.
I love little tidbits like this Don, Thank you. My education just keeps expanding around here, lol

Reminds me of a t-shirt I have.  It says in large faux-handwriting print, "Try not to let your mind wander."  Below that, in small print, "It's too small to be out on its own..."  :))

Quote
When I explained there was a wholly new version that was released, he insisted that it must be version three, regardless of what T11 was calling it, never mind that it's their deck, right?  :))
Perception is a strange thing sometimes, lol.

Well, in a way it's understandable.  At the time, there were quite a few decks labeled as version twos coming out of T11 which were anything but a truly new version.  DeckONE, Bicycle Titanium, Guardians...in each case, it was a new box with the same exact cards.

We also started seeing "sold out" decks which were originally printed in Ohio coming on the market from aftermarket retailers, but with "Kentucky" boxes - we got T11 to 'fess up that they were reprinting those decks, but for reasons unknown they weren't selling them on their own website, instead choosing to wholesale them to other retailers while listing them as "sold out" on theory11.com.  The decks in question (at least the ones we caught them at) were the original Bee Stingers in black and the Propaganda deck.

For the Bee Stingers, retailers were passing off these reprint decks as if they were the originals.  Once people started to realize there were reprints, market values for those decks fluctuated quite a bit, eventually splitting into one price for the original Ohio version and a different, cheaper price for the newer Kentucky version.  By the time Kentucky-made Propagandas were coming out, retailers (starting with Jason Arakelian at the1eyedjack.com) were marketing them as a different print run from the start, charging lower prices for them.  It was easy to get away with on the Stingers because you had to read the small print on the box bottom to know the difference, but it was more obvious on the Propagandas because they had the city of origin in larger print on one of the box sides, like classic Rider Backs used to have.

This practice could be continuing with newer decks as well, the first printings of which were in Kentucky to start with, but unless there were some differences in the boxes we'd never know - plus there's the fact that most of their newer decks are still in stock, meaning they may have decided that it was smarter business to sell the newer printings on their own site instead of making them appear to be sold-out limited editions when they actually weren't and letting other retailers sell them as if they were rare...
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Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2013, 10:31:50 PM »
 

crazyfandecks

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btw, how could u guys know Gold Monarch when opened ??? i never have one to check  :P
 

Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2013, 12:23:56 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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btw, how could u guys know Gold Monarch when opened ??? i never have one to check  :P

Whereas a standard Monarchs deck back is deep navy blue with white line work, the gold Monarchs deck back is black with gold line work.  It was supposed to be that way for all the Monarch decks, but they saw that the line work was so fine and the gold metallic ink was so dark that you could barely make it out on the back of the card.  The gold foil on the Monarchs box was probably more what they were hoping for, but metallic ink and metal foil work are two totally different beasts.
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Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2013, 07:17:50 AM »
 

Fred

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Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2013, 12:30:17 PM »
 

Mydnyghte

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I noticed with the Arcanes that the ones labeled Air Cushion had the seal, while the ones with Performance Coating had no seal. Was that just part of the transition to the playing card division?

Also didn't realize there we two different decks to the one style Monarch box. I've been eyeballing those for awhile now but evidently there's more to them than meets the eye.

The completionist will remain in the backseat, but will be allowed to drive every once in awhile....
 

Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2013, 03:36:18 PM »
 

ronyo_faukx

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there's more to them than meets the eye.

Dammit! Now I want to see Playing Card Transformers!
Who wants to play '52 Card Pickup'?
 

Re: Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2013, 04:11:00 PM »
 

Mydnyghte

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there's more to them than meets the eye.

Dammit! Now I want to see Playing Card Transformers!

That's actually what was on my mind when I typed that... I'm confident that phrase has only ever been used in a Transformers context. Ever.