Just a couple of quick questions re Artifice and Smoke & Mirrors

[Anthony]

Hey all, I'm coming to my own conclusions based on what I see and hear, but I'm not finding an actual "This is the difference" anywhere. Hoping for a little clarification so I know what I'm looking at when shopping around.

Artifice decks (Purple, Green, Blue, etc...) the difference between v1 and v2 is the v1 are boarderless?

DandD Smoke and Mirrors Reprints, whats the difference...and my more perplexing question, can someone explain v1 (1st Edition), v2 (Special Edition) and v3 (Luxury Edition)? are there 2 decks per version (A Smoke deck and a Mirror deck)? I know v4 to v6 are color variations, but the 1st three have me a bit confused.

As always thanks for the guidance!

[Curt]

You are correct about the Smoke and Mirror decks. Versions 1-3 were a 2 piece set, a black and a white deck in each. There were also two different v4 decks, one with a seal and one without.

As for the Artifice, I can help you out with the earlier ones, but someone else will have to fill in the rest because I stopped following their changes after the first few renditions came out. The first Artifice ( Red and Blue ) were borderless, then they made a v2 of the blue versions with a border at the same time they made the green version, that also had a border. After this point I stopped following the changes to the Artifice, since the only one that really interested me was the Red because it was one of the first "rare" decks I had added to my collection, and the interesting circumstances surrounding the decks release with huge website crashes and the fact I had to continually try to buy them for 9 hours before my order finally went through.

[xela]

Artifice decks (Purple, Green, Blue, etc...) the difference between v1 and v2 is the v1 are boarderless?

Yes

DandD Smoke and Mirrors Reprints, whats the difference

v1-3 were made in Cincinnati, the reprints feel completely different than those.  I think there are minor artwork differences too.

[kdklown]

Here's pics of S&M V1-3 tuck boxes for a reference of the card back art differences.

 V1


V2


V3


Hope this helps.

[phantom1412]

About artifice series

V1 - red(rare), blue : borderless
V2 - blue, green : bordered
V3 - purple : borderless

Black artifice(rare) : borderless, black front and back
Artifice Tundra : borderless, white front and back

So, 7 different versions in total.

[Don Boyer]

About artifice series

V1 - red(rare), blue : borderless
V2 - blue, green : bordered
V3 - purple : borderless

Black artifice(rare) : borderless, black front and back
Artifice Tundra : borderless, white front and back

So, 7 different versions in total.

Officially, while collectors might call the purple deck version 3, it's sort of versionless as far as Ellusionist is concerned, just like Artifice Tundra and Artifice Black Club Apex Edition.  They only made distinctions between the first two decks (version one) and the next two decks (version two) because of them both having a blue deck among them.

Also, as far as Smoke and Mirrors, I seem to recall that one of the Mirror decks has a borderless black back right into the bleed where the card is cut, while the others have a white border - someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the borderless one was V3 Mirror.  Technically, that would make the white deck borderless as well, but what with it being white and all, who can tell? 

I took the liberty of editing your topic title so others looking around here might benefit from the answers to your questions without resorting to using a search engine.

[agera94]

You are correct Don. With the V3 Smoke, the 'borderless' aspect comes from there being no complete border around the outside; the design is separated into quarters with gaps between the middle regions of each edge. The V3 Smoke also includes a sexy looking inverted ace printed entirely with black stock; the cards also don't chip as much as you would expect from a full bleed black back and white front deck.

[Anthony]

I took the liberty of editing your topic title so others looking around here might benefit from the answers to your questions without resorting to using a search engine.

That's cool Don, thank you.

As for all the feedback, thanks a lot, clears up quite a bit. I can tell deck collecting is gonna take more work than Zippo collecting, lol. Reminds me of my comic book days....1st print, sketch print, variation 1, etc...(eventually that and the volume in which stuff was coming out just killed it for me) Not a big fan of the never ending "Limited Series" 

My biggest problem has been that I'm a completionist when it comes to collecting and that doesn't always fit well with being frugal, this may change my 2 deck per rule. But everyone's feedback is helping greatly and I appreciate it very much.

[bhong]

I found out that there is actually two different version of the Purple Artifice deck. The older has the vertical element of the back design on the court cards while the newer version doesn't. I've included pictures to better show what I mean.

edit: I forgot that the spades and club pips are changed a bit too. They're solid instead of having that purple glow in the middle of them.

[Don Boyer]

Sparkz, trust me - you CAN'T be a completionist to the extent you may have been before.  That way lies madness.  Some people are so fussy about versions, they're confusing the term with print runs - it's crazy.  I only bother these days if there's a significant difference, like a different joker or a change to the design.  Even box differences aren't enough for me these days - same cards in a different box is the same deck, period.

I found out that there is actually two different version of the Purple Artifice deck. The older has the vertical element of the back design on the court cards while the newer version doesn't. I've included pictures to better show what I mean.

edit: I forgot that the spades and club pips are changed a bit too. They're solid instead of having that purple glow in the middle of them.

WOW.  I never thought I'd see that.  They actually listened to people who thought those purple-on-purple pips were ridiculous and nearly impossible to use.  LIKE ME!  I mean, seriously - one color was dark-purple-with-light-purple-core and the other was light-purple-with-dark-purple-core.  WTF, man!  I can't even remember which color scheme was supposed to be red and which was supposed to be black.  I played with mine I think once and swore I'd never buy more.  Now I'd actually have a reason to do so - if I was still buying cards.

[Anthony]

Sparkz, trust me - you CAN'T be a completionist to the extent you may have been before.  That way lies madness.  Some people are so fussy about versions, they're confusing the term with print runs - it's crazy.  I only bother these days if there's a significant difference, like a different joker or a change to the design.  Even box differences aren't enough for me these days - same cards in a different box is the same deck, period.

I found out that there is actually two different version of the Purple Artifice deck. The older has the vertical element of the back design on the court cards while the newer version doesn't. I've included pictures to better show what I mean.

edit: I forgot that the spades and club pips are changed a bit too. They're solid instead of having that purple glow in the middle of them.

WOW.  I never thought I'd see that.  They actually listened to people who thought those purple-on-purple pips were ridiculous and nearly impossible to use.  LIKE ME!  I mean, seriously - one color was dark-purple-with-light-purple-core and the other was light-purple-with-dark-purple-core.  WTF, man!  I can't even remember which color scheme was supposed to be red and which was supposed to be black.  I played with mine I think once and swore I'd never buy more.  Now I'd actually have a reason to do so - if I was still buying cards.

Oh I'm with you Don and that's why I'm asking these questions. I can turn off the completionist in me when it comes to color variations and subtle changes. Unless a favorite color is released i would rather put the money towards a completely new and different deck.

[MrMollusk]

Here's the difference in the back designs for the Smoke and Mirrors. V1-V3 from left to right.

As you can see, the third one is the "final draft". I think it looks the best.

[ronyo_faukx]

Here's the difference in the back designs for the Smoke and Mirrors. V1-V3 from left to right.

As you can see, the third one is the "final draft". I think it looks the best.

Thanks for posting this Mollusk. I was looking at the tucks and wondering how you tell the difference between v1 and v2 as the boxes looked exactly the same.

[Anthony]

Here's the difference in the back designs for the Smoke and Mirrors. V1-V3 from left to right.

As you can see, the third one is the "final draft". I think it looks the best.

Thanks for posting this Mollusk. I was looking at the tucks and wondering how you tell the difference between v1 and v2 as the boxes looked exactly the same.

You took the words right out of my mouth Ronyo....thanks for the pic Mullusk, there a big help!

[MrMollusk]

No problem!

That does seem to be a pretty big problem with some decks out there. Like the Monarch deck and Gold Monarch deck. You don't know if it's worth 100 dollars until you tear into it.

[Don Boyer]

No problem!

That does seem to be a pretty big problem with some decks out there. Like the Monarch deck and Gold Monarch deck. You don't know if it's worth 100 dollars until you tear into it.

It depends on how you define worth.  Some people don't use monetary figures to determine something's worth.  Many do.  If I want to know, monetarily speaking, what a deck is worth, skimming the recently-closed auctions on eBay generally gives me a good idea of the current market value.  But in terms of "what is this worth to me?"  That's something you'll never find on eBay or anywhere else.  How much do I cherish it, how much would I trade to get it, how much to I want to tear it into little bitty shreds and cast them upon the wind, etc. - that's inside me and nowhere else.

[Anthony]

Very valid point Don, coming from the Zippo side this has a lot of weight. People telling me things like, my grandfather had one like this, or my great grandfather carried one in the WWII, my uncle had one in Vietnam, etc... Not sure if playing cards have that kind of "story" behind them, but I'm sure there are a few people attached to certain decks for reasons beyond monetary and those tend to be the most "valuable" items to that person.

What is it worth? It's worth what someone is willing to give you.

[Don Boyer]

Very valid point Don, coming from the Zippo side this has a lot of weight. People telling me things like, my grandfather had one like this, or my great grandfather carried one in the WWII, my uncle had one in Vietnam, etc... Not sure if playing cards have that kind of "story" behind them, but I'm sure there are a few people attached to certain decks for reasons beyond monetary and those tend to be the most "valuable" items to that person.

What is it worth? It's worth what someone is willing to give you.

Playing cards can have that kind of history.  Think of all the soldiers fighting in Vietnam with Bicycle Aces of Spades sticking out of their helmets.  Despite mythic claims that it was to strike fear in the enemy, it was far more for morale of our own forces.  Then there's the playing cards you used as a kid - that's for vintage collectors as well as people buying standard decks as opposed to custom, but it often branches out from there.  I have fond memories of Bicycle, Bee, Aviator, Tally Ho, Hoyle, even airline decks.  I had an old Quantas deck that was my favorite - had a dark yellow background with a map of Australia on it.

But we're diverging from the topic...  Perhaps you'd like to start a new one? 

[crazyfandecks]

No problem!

That does seem to be a pretty big problem with some decks out there. Like the Monarch deck and Gold Monarch deck. You don't know if it's worth 100 dollars until you tear into it.

actually u could know Gold Monarch when u see the box: USPCC wrapped it with the cellophane reverse way (correct me if i use wrong grammar ) but then very easy to make a fake Gold Monarch sad that

[crazyfandecks]

Thanks for posting this Mollusk. I was looking at the tucks and wondering how you tell the difference between v1 and v2 as the boxes looked exactly the same.

difference between v1 and v2 from outside box are the bottom lol when v1 only have "private name" - "Smoke" or "Mirror" at the bottom, v2 also have the "Smoke & Mirrors" with a little words "special edition" below (zoom in the v2 photo and you will see this words)

[Don Boyer]

No problem!

That does seem to be a pretty big problem with some decks out there. Like the Monarch deck and Gold Monarch deck. You don't know if it's worth 100 dollars until you tear into it.

actually u could know Gold Monarch when u see the box: USPCC wrapped it with the cellophane reverse way (correct me if i use wrong grammar ) but then very easy to make a fake Gold Monarch sad that

Your last sentence hit the nail on the head - while there is a difference in how the box is wrapped, there's ways to rewrap a deck - if you're good at it, it would be undetectable.  Since there are so few Gold Monarchs (only 144 saved, only 111 released to the public) and so many "non-Gold" Monarchs, it stands to reason that there's both incentive and capability to create forgeries.

A better analogy would be the standard Gold Edition Tally Ho decks in red and blue compared with the ones that were made for magician Tomohiro Maeda.  This is a case where you have absolutely no way to tell - the boxes and cellophane wrappers are identical down to the last detail.  The only way you'd learn which version you have is by opening the pack and looking at the jokers.  There are no exterior differences whatsoever.  It's a big reason why the red and blue Maeda decks sell for nearly the same as the regular Gold Editions, while the light blue one made for Maeda goes for a premium - the regular Gold Edition decks never came in light blue so the difference is immediately known and you know you have a Maeda deck.

Thanks for posting this Mollusk. I was looking at the tucks and wondering how you tell the difference between v1 and v2 as the boxes looked exactly the same.

difference between v1 and v2 from outside box are the bottom lol when v1 only have "private name" - "Smoke" or "Mirror" at the bottom, v2 also have the "Smoke & Mirrors" with a little words "special edition" below (zoom in the v2 photo and you will see this words)

I spotted some differences in the card backs - are there not differences in the card back images on the boxes?  Oh, wait - those aren't card back images...  But is there any difference to the back art at all?  It would stand to reason that there might be - instances like the ones I discussed above tend to be somewhat rare in card collecting.

[ronyo_faukx]

One of my main concerns regarding same tuck box designs is that you could buy what you think, and/or are led to believe, is a rare or simply more expensive version, only to become a victim of 'bait and switch'.

E.g. I could post a picture of the S&M v2 tuck, but say that it's the v1. It's not until you receive the deck that you would realise that you have been duped.

At least if there's a difference, even just a slight one, you'd know for sure what you're looking at.

[agera94]

The V2 says 'special edition' on the bottom of the box. I'm sure if anyone was going to drop upwards of $80 on a deck, they would probably do some investigating first.

[Don Boyer]

One of my main concerns regarding same tuck box designs is that you could buy what you think, and/or are led to believe, is a rare or simply more expensive version, only to become a victim of 'bait and switch'.

E.g. I could post a picture of the S&M v2 tuck, but say that it's the v1. It's not until you receive the deck that you would realise that you have been duped.

At least if there's a difference, even just a slight one, you'd know for sure what you're looking at.

Of course that's the case, for you and all other collectors.  Fortunately, it's not something that happens often.  I know of only two cases that I can recall.  S&M decks are not one of them.  The differences are small but noticeable enough.

[Mydnyghte]

So this thread has helped me out tremendously. As I was going through the decks I have so far, I noticed a ton of differences from deck to deck. Which I thought was interesting, because I never would have imagined such variances on playing cards. I'm familiar with it in the action figure realm, I collected those for years, and was a completionist. But crap, seeing the differences between just 3 decks  has made me realize the completionist is going to have to take a backseat.

I noticed with the Arcane decks, a few came with no seal. Two white and two black, some have it, some don't. From what I gather, the E on the bottom signifies older prints where the eagle is present on newer ones. Did they abandon seals on the newer prints?