Author (Read 6102 times)

gerbinillo · « **on:** July 09, 2013, 07:06:48 PM »

Hi everybody. IÂ´d like to share with you my experience with Mike Ferrante from . Please, read it complete.

Well first of all something about me: iÂ´m a spanish Bicycle Card Collector. My english, as you can read, is not very well.

Some days ago i bought a deck, the new karnival elite. I paid $21,40 including shipping to Spain. Well this deck was not ready to ship because it was a pre-sell, so i have to wait until July 19. Then he added some new decks on his stock and i asked him this:

De:   Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado:   lunes, 08 de julio de 2013 16:03:50
Para:    sales@ (sales@ )

Hi Mike. A few days ago i bought and paid you for the new Bicycle Karnival Elite Deck.

Now, you have added new decks on which iÂ´m interested. These decks are the Bicycle Come to Chew and the Bicycle Secret Weapon.

I think you are not going to send the Bicycle Karnival deck until 19 July, so i would like to add these 2 decks to my purchase. I can place a new order including the Come to Chew and the Secret Weapon decks and, when i pay it, you can refund the difference on shipping.

Please, if itÂ´s ok let me know in order to place the new order.

Thanks and, as always, sorry for my bad english.

Here is his answer:

RE: Question‏

De:   sales@ Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado:   lunes, 08 de julio de 2013 17:02:26
Para:    Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Sure

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

I place a new order and then i asked him again...

De:   Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado:   lunes, 08 de julio de 2013 17:19:10
Para:    sales@ (sales@ )
Hi Mike. Payment is done. IÂ´ve paid both order by credit card. I donÂ´t know if you can refund money using credit card. If not, my paypal account is jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com

Thanks again!

Then i asked him for the refund of shipping:

De:   Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado:   lunes, 08 de julio de 2013 23:27:25
Para:    sales@ (sales@ )
Hi again Mike! I would like to know if you are going to refund me some money for the shipping of both orders. I would like to know because i want to quit it from my mind.

Thanks!

His answer:

De:   sales@ Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado:   lunes, 08 de julio de 2013 23:30:18
Para:    Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com); a@

I already did check your paypal account

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

The money was not refunded so i asked him again:

De:   Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado:   lunes, 08 de julio de 2013 23:41:09
Para:    sales@ (sales@ )
I've checked my paypal account and i don't have any refund from you. I'm going to wait until tomorrow because maybe it will take some hours on taking effect. Remember that my paypal account is jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com

Best regards...!!!

And now is when he become totally crazy...

De:   sales@ Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado:   lunes, 08 de julio de 2013 23:46:48
Para:    Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
It is there and I am not doing this again. Way too much aggravation.

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

I sent him a picture of my updated paypal account and there wasnÂ´t his refund...

De:   Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado:   martes, 09 de julio de 2013 15:57:59
Para:    sales@ (sales@ ); a@ (a@ )

Datos adjuntos:    1 archivo adjunto
   la foto.PNG (804,7 kB)
Hi Mike. I write this mail to see if we clarify once and for all the problem we have. It is not my intention to make you angry with me; there is a problem and I just want to solve it. I know you have a lot of trouble in unify the two orders into one, but I just want you to check if you've done the refund. There is a picture attached with my paypal updated activity; as you can see, there isnÂ´t any refund from you.

I repeat: my intention is not to make you angry with me. I just want to solve the problem. Is it possible that youÂ´ve made the refund to my credit card?

Thanks and best regards!

His answer...

De:   sales@ Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado:   martes, 09 de julio de 2013 16:07:06
Para:    Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
I have already checked it is done. i wioll not answer any further emails about this subject

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

And mine...

De:   Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado:   martes, 09 de julio de 2013 16:57:39
Para:    sales@ (sales@ )

Ok Mike. But let me tell you that i not agree with you. I think you are not being serious.

I have not invented this situation to steal you $8.

Anyway, thanks.

At this moment i phoned paypal customer service and they told me that there wasnÂ´t any payment form him to me, so i asked him again...:

FW: PayPal (KMM46445901V86105L0KM) :ppEU‏

De:   Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado:   martes, 09 de julio de 2013 18:33:49
Para:    sales@ (sales@ )
Hi again Mike. I only want to tell you that iÂ´ve phoned paypal customer service and they told me that "sales@ " did not make any payment or refund to "jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com". They have checked your paypal account and there isnÂ´t any payment from you to me or any similar adress, at least from July 3th.

Can you, please, tell me the transaction Id.?

Remember that iÂ´m only trying to solve the problem, but it seems that you donÂ´t want to do it. IÂ´ve been buying you from many months ago and i think that you never have any problem with me as a buyer.

Below is the original paypal e-mail in spanish. Here is the translation to english:

Dear Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez:

Good morning and thank you for contacting PayPal in relation to refund not received.

Mr. Alonso, after receiving your mail and check your PayPal account we inform you that it has not received any payment or reimbursement by the seller sales@ . Therefore, I recommend that you contact your dealer to tell you please return or payment.

We have solved his doubt.
For more information, remember that you can also enter your PayPal account and check the section Quick Help Contact link at footer.

Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 16:08:29 +0000
From: service@paypal.es
To: jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com
Subject: PayPal (KMM46445901V86105L0KM) :ppEU

Estimado Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez:

Buenos dÃas y gracias por contactar con PayPal en relaciÃ³n a la devoluciÃ³n que no ha recibido.

Sr. Alonso, tras recibir su correo electrÃ³nico y revisar su cuenta de PayPal le informo que no ha recibido ningÃºn pago o devoluciÃ³n por parte del vendedor sales@ . Por ello, le recomiendo que contacte con su vendedor para indicarle que le realice la devoluciÃ³n o el pago.

Esperamos haber resuelto su duda.
Si necesita mÃ¡s informaciÃ³n, recuerde que tambiÃ©n puede entrar en su cuenta PayPal y consultar el apartado de Ayuda rÃ¡pida del vÃnculo Contactar, a pie de pÃ¡gina.

Atentamente,
Ikram
Servicio de AtenciÃ³n al Cliente
PayPal

Â© 1999-2013 PayPal. Todos los derechos reservados.
PayPal (Europe) S.Ã r.l. et Cie, S.C.A.
SociÃ©tÃ© en Commandite par Actions
Sede social :22-24 Boulevard Royal, 5Ã¨me Ã©tage, L-2449, Luxembourg
RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

Attention to his response...!!!

De:   sales@ Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado:   martes, 09 de julio de 2013 18:50:24
Para:    Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

Datos adjuntos:    2 archivos adjuntos
   JOSE.png (236,0 kB) , JOSE 2.png (268,0 kB)
ATTACHED IS A COPY OF THE REFUND FOR YESTERDAY WHICH SHOWS THE REFUND WAS MADE AND FOR TODAY, WHICH IS THE BALANCE OF THE MONEY BECAUSE I NO LONGER WISH TO DO BUSINESS WITH YOU. CLEARLY YOUR SOMEONE WHO I DON'T WANT TO DO BUSINESS WITH SINCE YOU CAN NOT FIGURE THE SIMPLEST OF THINGS OUT. I AM ALSO REFUNDING YOU YOUR MONEY FROM THE 3RD OF JULY ORDER AS WELL

IS IT CLEAR ENOUGH NOW MORON?

DON'T CONTACT ME AGAIN IDIOT.

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

And mine...

RE: PayPal (KMM46445901V86105L0KM) :ppEU‏

De:   Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado:   martes, 09 de julio de 2013 21:14:57
Para:    sales@ (sales@ )
Hi again Mike. I donÂ´t know what kind of psychological problem you have, but iÂ´m sure something is going wrong in your brain.

I didnÂ´t claim you any money at any moment. I didnÂ´t claim you any money in none of the mails i sent you. ItÂ´s simply and clear: you told me that you refunded some money to my paypal account, but you didnÂ´t do it.

Now, watching your attached pictures i think that you refund the money to the credit card i paid you both orders, but not to my paypal adress, and thatÂ´s the reason because i have no news about this refund on my paypal account. My paypal account works with one credit card, and i paid you the orders with a different credit card.

Fortunately, i can buy poker decks in many other sites, but you canÂ´t take pleasure anymore in making bussiness with me.

As you can see i am talking with you without using capital letters and without using bad language (i have to say you that i donÂ´t know the word "moron" i i like it a lot!)

I donÂ´t know your age (and i donÂ´t care...) but take it easy my friend; being so agressive and unpleasant will donÂ´t allow you to live much more time! You are near a heart attack!!!

IÂ´m going to try tu publish this mails on unitedcardists.com but iÂ´m sure you are going to delete them and my account. Besides iÂ´m going to publish them on aethercards.com

But please, for your own safety, go to the doctor and see whatÂ´s going wrong on your head. IÂ´m sure that you are totally unhappy in your life.

As always, best regards!

Incredible...!!!

RE: PayPal (KMM46445901V86105L0KM) :ppEU‏

De:   sales@ Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado:   martes, 09 de julio de 2013 21:24:36
Para:    Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
YOUR JUST A DUMB ASS FOREIGNER. I CAN'T REFUND TO YOUR CREDIT CARD, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. BUT IF YOU WEREN'T SO FUCKING STUPID YOU WOULD HAVE LOOKED AND SAW IT WAS REFUNDED YESTERDAY. THAT IS WHY I HATE DOING ANYTHING FOR YOU STUPID FUCKING FOREIGNERS. BECAUSE INSTEAD OF JUST CHECKING THE TRANSACTION THAT YOU PAID, YOU WERE JUST TOO LAZY. NOT SURPRISING YOUR COUNTRY HAS 25% UNEMPLOYMENT. NOTHING BUT DUMB ASS LAZY PEOPLE!!!!

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

All of us always have minor problems when we buy / sell something on the web and itÂ´s very difficult when both (buyer and seller) speaks in different languages. But i think this is very serious.
I never write on forums but i think this is something that all international buyers must read.

I have to apologize the forum moderator if this topic does not fit here.

Thaks for reading!

agera94 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2013, 10:45:41 PM »

I've had paypal refunds take up to 5 Business days to come through. When I asked about the whereabouts of the money to customer service they couldn't find anything as I believe it floats around paypal purgatory while it is 'transacted' or some silly fluff that they put on.Not trying to defend either side here, but maybe you should have waited a bit longer before asking him regarding the refund of money.

MrMollusk · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2013, 11:31:27 PM »

That response....

I can safely say that I'm never doing business with Mike again.
Every experience I've had with money refunding has been handled professionally, simply, directly, and MATURELY. No 12 year old tantrums or racism.

Yeah, Paypal does take forever to process ANYTHING. Refunds especially. But if the transaction record never existed, I don't think it was refunded. Transactions are immediately logged and marked as "pending".

Even if Mike was right about the refund, he had no grounds for those bizarre insults and rants. "Paypal takes time to process". Would have solved it from the get-go.

S. Carey · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2013, 12:44:45 AM »

I was thinking about placing an order there this week but given this latest development I will hold out for now. I can't back a racist or someone who treats people like that.

Understandably, it takes time for paypal to process transactions and sometimes technology can make you crazy but that is just 100% unprofessional calling someone a moron and an idiot and a dumb foreigner.

I've seen Mike's comments tearing into people on UC but I always assumed it was personal beef.

Rob Wright · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2013, 01:16:05 AM »

I cannot condone the name calling, but I can understand his frustration. I would have refunded all your money, and told you to take a hike. Every time you emailed him. He was fairly quick to respond. I know if I email a company, that it may take 24 hours before they reply. I work in sales, and on my email is my hours. It never fails that I get an email from a customer several hours before my shift, and then another 15 minutes later, and another wondering why I have not called.

So lets look at the time line of your emails
07/08 16:30- You- If I buy more and ship with previous order, can you refund some shipping?
07/08 17:02- Mike- Sure
07/08 17:19- You- placed order, can you refund shipping to my card or paypal?
07/08 23:27-You(because he hadn't responded back quickly enough for you) Are you going to refund some of my money?
07/08 23:30 Mike- Already done- check your account.
07/08 23:41 You- No refund yet- I Know it may take some time, so I will check tomorrow, but here is my account again anyways.
07/08 23:46 Mike- It's there, way too much aggravation.

7 emails in less than 8 hours.
now the next day

07/09 15:57 You- Not trying to make you angry, but See my account- no refund yet, please make sure you have done it.
07/09 16:07 Mike- Already checked it. It is done- will not answer anymore emails
07/09 16:57 You- OK Mike, don't agree with you, don't think your being serious, not trying to steal $8 from you(which basically is calling him a liar)
Then you call paypal service- they do not have a record of a refund payment showing
07/09 18:33 You- Mike I called paypal. They say you have not paid my refund. Here is the email they sent me.
07/09 18:50 Mike- Here is a copy of the refund from yesterday. I've also refunded the rest of your money for both orders. I no longer want to do business with you. He also calls you several bad names.
07/09 21:14 You- You insult Mike, and say he needs help from a Dr. You let him know that you will take your business else were.
07/09 21:46 Mike- He cusses you out and call you bad names.

You badgered this guy over $8. He was trying to be nice, and was willing to discount the shipping on multiple orders. Keep in mind, this was going to cost Mike money. It cost more than $8 to ship 3 decks to Spain.
Mike responded to every one of your emails in a timely matter. His first mistake was trying to be nice. he did not have to offer you a refund of shipping. His second mistake was trying to give you quick customer service. He should have waited 24hrs between responses. It was your impatience that caused this whole thing, and all over 8 frigg'n dollars.

Mike was wrong for calling you names, but I understand his frustration.

Aaron · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2013, 01:30:50 AM »

so did this get deleted at unitedcardists?

gerbinillo · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2013, 06:22:40 AM »

Well. ItÂ´s very diffucult for me to express what iÂ´m thinking and writting it in english (i think in spanish and then i have to write in english...) IÂ´m not a 17 years old boy. IÂ´ve been collecting Bicycle cards since some years ago and never before have problems with him.

The problem is the following:

Some weeks ago, i bought him the Bicycle Karnival Renegades in Purple and the Bicycle Karnival Assasins in Green. In this case, both decks were on pre-sell, so i paid both decks and heÂ´ll send them to me when he gets both decks. During this period of time (between i bought the decks and he send them to me) he added to his stock the Bicycle Quicksilver and the Bicycle Allure decks. I was interested on this decks, so i placed a new order. He mailed me and he said he was going to refund some money for shipping because there were two orders and i had paid shipping twice. I said him ok, and automatically paypal sent me an email telling me that he refunded some money to me. ThatÂ´s the reason because this time i asked him for the refund. I have no problem in pay twice shipping fee (fortunately iÂ´m not one of those 25% unemployment he said...) And this time paypal didnÂ´t send me this email. (at this time i have no news from paypal about the refund...) It would be easier if he told me something like: maybe paypal will take some days on inform you...

I have no problems with him about how faster he answer my mails. Yesterday was one of those days that i was really bored at my work. His mails come into my mobile phone and this is why i re-answer him so fast. If he would told me: donÂ´t worry, paypal will take some days on inform you, iÂ´ll not be writting at this forum, because then there were no problem.

@Rob Wright You said he was trying to be nice. Do i make something wrong at any moment?? I was trying to solve the problem. In fact, if he would said me that he was not going to refund nothig, iÂ´ll continue buying him, because i know that is his bussines and he has to earn money with all of us.

I was not impatient. As i told you i answer his mail so fast because yesterday i had a lot of free time at work and i had nothig better to do. Besides, in case i was the most impatint person on the world, he would not have to take this behaviour insulting me, despising me, and being so racist and xenophobic. And he donÂ´t said this only to spanish people: he said THAT IS WHY I HATE DOING ANYTHING FOR YOU STUPID FUCKING FOREIGNERS.

I donÂ´t publish anything yet at the unitedcardists. If i have time iÂ´ll do it this evening, but iÂ´m sure he is going to delete as soon as he read it. IÂ´m also going to send an email to the USPCC with all the mails.

Again, sorry for my bad english...

Best wishes from Spain...!!!

agera94 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2013, 07:46:09 AM »

While it was highly out of line for him to insult and throw around discriminating remarks, he did state the he had sent the refund, and within less than 24 hours you were asking him where it was. If you're ever unsure of these things, paypal has a page dedicated to refund information; regarding refund times:

Quote

There are 2 possible statuses for refunds:
Pending: If your refund status is Pending, it means that the seller issued your refund, but the money hasn't arrived yet. It usually takes 3-5 days for the money to arrive.
Refunded or Partially Refunded: If your refund status is Refunded or Partially Refunded, it means that the refund is complete. The money should be back in your PayPal balance or on your credit or debit card.

With that aside, I do hope that your next experience with him (if you do wish to) is more pleasurable.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2013, 07:50:10 AM »

Gerbinillo: No, Mike should not have treated you that way. It's not good business practice to treat any customer in that manner, not even the worst customer. However, based on the timeline you provided, that would meet the definition of badgering and Rob Wright's point is valid. It doesn't excuse Mike's behavior - as stated, he could simply have mentioned that PayPal refunds require a certain amount of time to process, and there would have been no awful exchange between the two of you. But it at least explains why he reacted harshly. If he was upset, distressed, etc., fine, but there are better ways of expressing that without going to such an extreme.

If you check in the Sales, Trades and ISOs board, there's a topic at the top of the list with discount codes for a number of playing card retailers. It's a shame that you had a bad experience with BMPokerWorld and Mike Ferrante, as I've dealt with him many times in the past.

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2013, 09:42:22 AM »

Gerbinillo, sorry that happened to you. I don't think you did anything wrong, you simply were having an email conversation trying to clarify things.

I've had some extremely "annoying" people but they are still paying you money, are human beings, and deserve respectful correspondence. Yes, even when they email you or IM you all the time asking for information. In fact, PARTICULARLY when they are "annoying", so that you can prove that you care and will work hard to keep their business. It's smart business and, frankly, the graceful thing to do.

To those making excuses, how would you feel if you got a message like that from a business? What if it was your mom just trying to clarify a situation with a retailer? Expect better, everyone.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2013, 09:59:45 AM »

Quote from: Encarded on July 10, 2013, 09:42:22 AM

To those making excuses, how would you feel if you got a message like that from a business? What if it was your mom just trying to clarify a situation with a retailer? Expect better, everyone.

Don't get me wrong - I understand his reasoning behind his acts, but never do I excuse them, just as I might understand why a criminal robs someone but don't condone robbery, or why a child will disobey his or her parents but I don't condone the disobedience.

CBJ · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2013, 10:07:24 AM »

Here's a message from Mike (BMPoker)...

"While I get that I was harsher in my replies than I should have been, dealing with a buyer like this can be extremely frustrating. To start with, the problems started the last time we had a pre-sell. I think he changed his order 4 or 5 times, while he was waiting for the release date to arrive. He wasn't just adding items, he was deleting items. That becomes a major headache because the items have to be removed from his order physically, as all paid for items are separated from our inventory and then it has to be added back into our computerized inventory. All of this takes time and at the end of the day becomes not worth it for $3 or $4. But I accommodated him on the multiple changes for his previous order. So when he asked this time, I was reluctant, but I honored his requested and stopped what I was doing and refunded the shipping difference as soon as he paid.

Despite what he is saying, it is about the money. How many emails do you need to send within 48 hours for approximately $8? If the money wasn't an issue, he wouldn't have been so worried about it now would he?

Let's go over how PayPal works. When you buy something and someone refunds money to you within the first 45 days, there is an "Issue refund" link right on the page of the original transaction. PayPal does not usually create a completely separate line item for a refund within the first 45 days. Usually when you go to your summary page, it would say "Partially Refunded" under that transaction and if you opened up the transaction, you would see the exact amount that was refunded. I'm sure that he did not look at his summary page or open up the transaction. If he did open the transaction page, he would have seen there was a refund. It is also possible he didn't bother to check both transactions because at the end of the day, he probably didn't want to.

In one of his email replies he actually says you didn't refund to my PayPal account. This was after I sent him the screen shots that showed it was refunded to his PayPal account. Anytime someone sends you money through PayPal, it has to show up in paypal. Is it possible the system was down and his account wasn't updated? Possible, but I don't think I have ever seen them down for that long. I think it was that he simply did not look for the information.

If you look at the emails, you can see I was very cordial at the beginning and tried very hard for the situation not to escalate. I even said I wasn't going to respond anymore emails to try an avoid an ugly confrontation, but he kept emailing me. The problem was this, he was basically calling me a liar and saying I didn't refund the money. If he wasn't, then why the hell was he constantly emailing me about $8, over and over again? I am not going to let someone keep calling me a lair and that is what he was doing by keep saying PayPal has no record. Clearly he was wrong because I provided him proof of that. As Robert Wright has said, if he allowed some time to pass for the situation to completely develop and emailed me say Friday or next week, he would have gotten a much different response. If you really think I am going to run away with your $8, then maybe you should have bought from me in the first place.

Thanks!"

gerbinillo · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2013, 10:08:25 AM »

@Encarded I completely agree with you. Even if i were the worst of the buyers, or if i were in a bad day, i think he had to be respectful with me. He has no excuses for having behaved this way.

Have a nice day!

@CBJ ThatÂ´s is his truth. IÂ´m at work, but when i have time iÂ´ll publish here the order he is speaking about. IÂ´ll publish it with data and not just with words.

However i repeat: even if i were the worst of the buyer he doesnÂ´t need to be so racist and xenophobic. Estoy alucinando con lo que aquÃ se escribe...

Best regards.

agera94 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2013, 10:19:26 AM »

Quote from: gerbinillo on July 10, 2013, 10:08:25 AM

@Encarded I completely agree with you. Even if i were the worst of the buyers, or if i were in a bad day, i think he had to be respectful with me. He has no excuses for having behaved this way.

Have a nice day!

As someone who deals with all sorts of people on a daily basis, right at the end of a night shift at a resort reception desk, you get great guests, and you get irritable guests. At no point do I want to, or encourage insulting another person regardless of how annoying or irritating they may have been. However, I can be very blunt with guests - when you've been checked in for over 10 hours, don't ask me what time breakfast is when it is displayed on your television and in a pamphlet provided to you on check in.

In your situation you should have waited it out until 3 to 5 business days have passed before asking about the whereabouts and validity of the refund. It had been no more than 24 hours and you were all over it effectively saying he's a liar. Yes you shouldn't have been treated the way you did, however you were asking for it; don't fuel the fire, and the fire won't burn.

Alex Willis · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2013, 10:28:39 AM »

Having worked with Paypal for more than 10 years including international sales, I can tell you that I always tell my customers to wait two full business days to see their refund. Sometimes it's less, sometimes (not often) more. I've had my own issues with Mike's poor communication and questionable behavior, but that aside, there was a simple way to resolve this:

1. To Customer: "I received your request and a paypal refund is currently processing. it may take up to 2 business days for you to receive your refund."
2. Do not respond to any emails regarding the refund for two days, if the payment has not been processed then check Paypal, note the transaction number and provide that information to the customer: "I apologize for the delay on the paypal refund process, attached is the transaction number that you can contact paypal with"
3. Do not respond to any emails regarding the refund for another day. "If you have been unsuccessful with Paypal regarding the refund I suggest you open a claim in the resolution center on your paypal account, it will force the folks at Paypal to dig into the situation and resolve it."
4. Paypal will intermediate from this point forward.

There is no need to respond quickly as some things take time and while it may seem "excellent" customer service to respond to all emails quickly, you are not doing yourself or the customer any favors trying to control something external to the communications.

As far as Mike's comments regarding intelligence or nationality, he will learn someday that the words he writes will follow and haunt him the rest of his life. Isn't the internet wonderful.

gerbinillo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:18:12 PM »

Well. Let's see if we clarify once and for all this trouble i have. I canÂ´t understand how Jason (@CBJ) can defend him. Obviously they are friends... But he post a mail from Mike saying that our problems starts last time he had a pre-sell. Ok, here are those mails...

De: Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado: sÃ¡bado, 23 de marzo de 2013 14:54:42
Para: sales@bmpokerworld.com (sales@bmpokerworld.com)

Hi Michael! I've bought a few days ago the following decks to you:
Bicycle karnival in green
Bicycle karnival in purple
Bicycle nautic back in white
Bicycle nautic back in pink
I think that you are not going to ship these decks until april 12. The question is the following: can i add to this purchase the "Bicycle Allure Deck" and the "Bicycle Black Tie Deck"...

Does the shipping cost will be more expensive?
Thanks and sorry for my bad english!

HIs answer...

De: sales@bmpokerworld.com
Enviado: sÃ¡bado, 23 de marzo de 2013 16:26:05
Para: Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

Just place a new order and I will figure out the correct shipping amount and refund the difference

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

I placed the new order and automatically paypal sent me one mail. ItÂ´s in spanish but it said that Mike Ferrante refund me $10,24...

De: servicio@paypal.es (servicio@paypal.es) Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado: sÃ¡bado, 23 de marzo de 2013 17:26:17
Para: Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC ha enviado un reembolso 23 mar 2013 17:26:14 CET
Id. de transacciÃ³n: 6J812975W6172713P

Estimado(a) Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez:

Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC le ha enviado un reembolso parcial de $10,24 USD por su compra.

Si tiene alguna pregunta acerca de este reembolso, pÃ³ngase en contacto con Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC.

El reembolso se enviarÃ¡ al saldo de su cuenta PayPal y tardarÃ¡ de 14 a 16 dÃas laborables.

Para ver todos los detalles de la transacciÃ³n, inicie sesiÃ³n en su cuenta PayPal. Esta transacciÃ³n puede tardar unos instantes en aparecer en su cuenta.

Then he added new Bicycle decks on his stocks and i mailed him again...

De: Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado: domingo, 24 de marzo de 2013 22:33:20
Para: sales@bmpokerworld.com (sales@bmpokerworld.com)

Hi again. First of all i apologize for any inconvenience on what iÂ´m going to ask you. I know it could be a trouble for you. Well, some days ago i bought to you 4 bicycle decks (Nautic back in white and in pink, and karnival in green and in purple). Then i ask you to add 2 different bicycle decks in order to save some money in shipping (Allure and Black Tie). Today, iÂ´ve seen that you have a new Bicycle deck (Quicksilver) at your page and i would like to add it to my purchase. I understand that this could be a problem for you because there are different orders for just one shipping. Please, let me know if i can add this deck to my order. Maybe i can do like when i add the Allure and Black Tie. And if you are going to add new Bicycle decks at your page the next weeks, please let me know for buying then at once!!!!!

One thousand apologies for any inconvenience.

When do you expect to send the order? Thanks!

HIs answer...

De: sales@bmpokerworld.com Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado: domingo, 24 de marzo de 2013 22:39:36
Para: Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

As stated on the website, the Karnival decks have a 4/17 ship date. You can add this item to your order. Place a new order and I will adjust the shipping like last time. Our inventory changes all the time and most of the time I don't know when items are coming in.

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

And mine...

De: Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)
Enviado: domingo, 24 de marzo de 2013 23:01:49
Para: sales@bmpokerworld.com (sales@bmpokerworld.com)

Payment has been made. Thanks!

And, again, paypal sent me a new mail... (again in spanish... but it means that he refund me $10,24)

De: servicio@paypal.es (servicio@paypal.es) Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado: sÃ¡bado, 23 de marzo de 2013 17:26:17
Para: Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

servicio@paypal.es es de confianza. Mostrar siempre el contenido.

Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC ha enviado un reembolso 23 mar 2013 17:26:14 CET
Id. de transacciÃ³n: 6J812975W6172713P

Estimado(a) Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez:

Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC le ha enviado un reembolso parcial de $10,24 USD por su compra.

Si tiene alguna pregunta acerca de este reembolso, pÃ³ngase en contacto con Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC.

El reembolso se enviarÃ¡ al saldo de su cuenta PayPal y tardarÃ¡ de 14 a 16 dÃas laborables.

Para ver todos los detalles de la transacciÃ³n, inicie sesiÃ³n en su cuenta PayPal. Esta transacciÃ³n puede tardar unos instantes en aparecer en su cuenta.

And here finished our transaction. On April 12, he sent me 3 mails, corresponding to the trhee orders...

BMPokerWorld: Shipment # 100001023 for Order # 100002814‏
12/04/2013 Para: Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
BMPOKERWORLD
De: Bmpokerworld (Sales=bmpokerworld.com@gostorego.com) en nombre de BMPOKERWORLD (Sales@bmpokerworld.com) Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado: viernes, 12 de abril de 2013 12:39:20
Para: Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

Hello, Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
Thank you for your order from BMPokerWorld. If you have any questions about your order please contact us at Sales@bmpokerworld.com or call us at Monday - Friday, 8am - 5pm PST.

Your shipping confirmation is below. Thank you again for your business.

Your Shipment #100001023 for Order #100002814
Billing Information: Payment Method:
Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
*************
************
Spain
T: +34*********** PayPal Express Checkout (Permissions) Payer Email: jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com

Shipping Information: Shipping Method:
Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
*************
************
Spain
T: +34*********** United States Postal Service - First-Class Package International Service

Item Sku Qty
Bicycle Quicksilver Playing Cards 10-426 1
Shipped By Tracking Number
PRIORITY MAIL LJ871172924US

Thank you, BMPokerWorld

The second order...

BMPokerWorld: Shipment # 100001024 for Order # 100002805‏
12/04/2013 Para: JosÃ© Luis Alonso RodrÃguez
BMPOKERWORLD
De: Bmpokerworld (Sales=bmpokerworld.com@gostorego.com) en nombre de BMPOKERWORLD (Sales@bmpokerworld.com) Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado: viernes, 12 de abril de 2013 12:39:59
Para: JosÃ© Luis Alonso RodrÃguez (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

Hello, JosÃ© Luis Alonso RodrÃguez
Thank you for your order from BMPokerWorld. If you have any questions about your order please contact us at Sales@bmpokerworld.com or call us at Monday - Friday, 8am - 5pm PST.

Your shipping confirmation is below. Thank you again for your business.

Your Shipment #100001024 for Order #100002805
Billing Information: Payment Method:
Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
*************
************
Spain
T: +34*********** PayPal Express Checkout (Permissions) Payer Email: jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com

Shipping Information: Shipping Method:
Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
*************
************
Spain
T: +34*********** United States Postal Service - First-Class Package International Service

Item Sku Qty
Bicycle Allure Playing Cards 10-424 1
Bicycle Black Tie Playing Cards 10-418 1
Shipped By Tracking Number
PRIORITY MAIL LJ871172924US

Thank you, BMPokerWorld

And the third mail...

BMPokerWorld: Shipment # 100001025 for Order # 100002758‏
12/04/2013 Para: Jose Luis Alonso RodrÃguez
BMPOKERWORLD
De: Bmpokerworld (Sales=bmpokerworld.com@gostorego.com) en nombre de BMPOKERWORLD (Sales@bmpokerworld.com) Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado: viernes, 12 de abril de 2013 12:41:16
Para: Jose Luis Alonso RodrÃguez (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

Hello, Jose Luis Alonso RodrÃguez
Thank you for your order from BMPokerWorld. If you have any questions about your order please contact us at Sales@bmpokerworld.com or call us at Monday - Friday, 8am - 5pm PST.

Your shipping confirmation is below. Thank you again for your business.

Your Shipment #100001025 for Order #100002758
Billing Information: Payment Method:
Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
*************
************
Spain
T: +34*********** PayPal Express Checkout (Permissions) Payer Email: jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com

Shipping Information: Shipping Method:
Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
*************
************
Spain
T: +34*********** United States Postal Service - First-Class Package International Service

Item Sku Qty
Bicycle Nautic Back Playing Cards 2 Deck Set in Pink & White 10-421 1
Bicycle Karnival Renegades Playing Cards in Purple Pre-Sell 4/12/13 Ship Date 10-423 1
Bicycle Karnival Assassins Playing Cards in Green Pre-Sell 4/12/13 Ship Date 10-422 1 Shipped By Tracking Number
PRIORITY MAIL LJ871172924US

Thank you, BMPokerWorld

Well can you @CBJ ask your boss Mike where are the problems on this transaction? He said "I think he changed his order 4 or 5 times, while he was waiting for the release date to arrive. He wasnÂ´t adding items, he was deleting items..." Can you ask him how, when or where i deleted any item???
I asked him at every moment is what i want to do were possible.

The problem is that in the above order i paid him the three times using paypal and he refund me using paypal.
Past week i pay him using my credit card but not my credit card registered on paypal. It seems that in the US paypal works as a bank: i pay him using my bank and he receive my money on his paypal account as if i was using my paypal, but i was using my bank web. When he refund the money from his paypal account, he didnÂ´t refund the money to my paypal account: he refund the money to my credit card (but he do it using paypal), and thatÂ´s the reason because i asked him for the refund, thatÂ´s the reason because paypal didnÂ´t notify me, and thatÂ´s the reason because he get totally crazy.
This morning i was speaking with paypal customer service and they told me that in Europe Paypal does not work as in the US, where paypal works as a bank.
I canÂ´t understan how you, @CBJ, can be so innocent. Although heÂ´s your boss, he doesnÂ´t have to be right.

In Spain we say: "se coge antes a un mentiroso que a un cojo..."

Thanks, and again sorry for my bad english...

gerbinillo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:26:35 PM »

Sorry I paste twice the same paypal mail. Here is the second one...

Reembolso de Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC‏
24/03/2013 Para: Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez
servicio@paypal.es
De: servicio@paypal.es (servicio@paypal.es) Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado: domingo, 24 de marzo de 2013 23:15:42
Para: Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

servicio@paypal.es es de confianza. Mostrar siempre el contenido.

Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC ha enviado un reembolso 24 mar 2013 23:15:40 CET
Id. de transacciÃ³n: 2MK82903UP364080V

Estimado(a) Jose Luis Alonso Rodriguez:

Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC le ha enviado un reembolso parcial de $6,91 USD por su compra.

Si tiene alguna pregunta acerca de este reembolso, pÃ³ngase en contacto con Brooke Michael's Poker World LLC.

El reembolso se enviarÃ¡ al saldo de su cuenta PayPal y tardarÃ¡ de 14 a 16 dÃas laborables.

Para ver todos los detalles de la transacciÃ³n, inicie sesiÃ³n en su cuenta PayPal. Esta transacciÃ³n puede tardar unos instantes en aparecer en su cuenta.

Second time he refund me $6,94.

CBJ · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:35:28 PM »

Quote from: gerbinillo on July 10, 2013, 02:18:12 PM

I canÂ´t understand how Jason (@CBJ) can defend him. Obviously they are friends.

Well can you @CBJ ask your boss Mike where are the problems on this transaction? He said "I think he changed his order 4 or 5 times, while he was waiting for the release date to arrive. He wasnÂ´t adding items, he was deleting items..." Can you ask him how, when or where i deleted any item???
I asked him at every moment is what i want to do were possible.

The problem is that in the above order i paid him the three times using paypal and he refund me using paypal.
Past week i pay him using my credit card but not my credit card registered on paypal. It seems that in the US paypal works as a bank: i pay him using my bank and he receive my money on his paypal account as if i was using my paypal, but i was using my bank web. When he refund the money from his paypal account, he didnÂ´t refund the money to my paypal account: he refund the money to my credit card (but he do it using paypal), and thatÂ´s the reason because i asked him for the refund, thatÂ´s the reason because paypal didnÂ´t notify me, and thatÂ´s the reason because he get totally crazy.
This morning i was speaking with paypal customer service and they told me that in Europe Paypal does not work as in the US, where paypal works as a bank.
I canÂ´t understan how you, @CBJ, can be so innocent. Although heÂ´s your boss, he doesnÂ´t have to be right.

In Spain we say: "se coge antes a un mentiroso que a un cojo..."

Thanks, and again sorry for my bad english...

Let me clarify something...
Yes, Mike is a friend

NO, I don't work for Mike. He is not my boss. I moderate over at UC for FREE, and I moderate his FB page in exchange for him selling my Arcane printing plates on his site. I make NO MONEY from doing this.

I have made TONS of purchases from Mike, and never had any problems.

I posted the message from Mike because Alex disabled Mike's Aether account.
You were just impatient, and could not wait to see if your EIGHT DOLLARS would be refunded over the course of 2-3 business days.. and proceeded to send Mike MULTIPLE messages. Mike even sent you screen shots of the transaction. If you are that desperate for the 8 dollars, maybe you shouldn't be in this hobby.

CBJ

Gunshy1 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:54:12 PM »

LOL @cbj's response. That's fucking stuuuuuupiiiiddd. He clearly said he had called PayPal and they told him NO refund had happened. Not hat it was pending, that it hadn't t happened at all. O and for someone to freak out like that so quickly and for over so little something has to be very wrong with them mentally.

Haven't placed an order in bmpw because off all the stupid belittling shit he says on UC and never will. What a racist bigot.

EDIT: o look while I was typing cbj is at it will another belittling comment just like at UC, what a stand up guy amiright?

see_squared · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:15:40 PM »

I normally wouldn't comment on something like this, but it's pretty serious.

Nobody should ever be spoken to that way, ever. I don't care who you are or how angry, upset or frustrated you may be at a customer. If you run a business, be professional and respectful. Not rude, arrogant, racist, childish and vulgar.

It should be known by now that wired money transfers do take time, especially when using a third party such as PayPal...it's just the way it is.

As as "Sales Manager", and working professional, Mike should have clearly stated in his first email that a refund is on its way and may take a few days to process instead of just his one word response "Sure". It's clear with his response that he was already annoyed.

Very sad.

Alex Willis · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:19:36 PM »

Quote from: CBJ on July 10, 2013, 02:35:28 PM

NO, I don't work for Mike. He is not my boss. I moderate over at UC for FREE, and I moderate his FB page in exchange for him selling my Arcane printing plates on his site. I make NO MONEY from doing this.

If he sells your Arcane printing plates on his site, you kind of are making money. It's called bartering, consigning or collusion depending on how it's set up.

Either way, the customer was a little extreme over an $8 sale, who doesn't have customers who go overboard. Mike was extreme in his reaction. Who is wrong here? Isn't there an adage about the customer always being right? Of course there's another one about choosing your friends wisely.

I have no problem with CBJ supporting his friend in this discussion, someone needs to take the stand of the accused as Mike cannot represent himself. And more than enough people here have defended Mike's angry response. In the end, it all comes down to who gives their money to Mike's business based on how he interacts with customers, vendors and potential customers. Hell, if it were me I would have refunded the customer twice as one email is worth $8 of my time and would have been done with it. If I were the customer, I wouldn't sweat over an $8 refund. I'm still waiting on paypal for a $87 refund and it's been 3 weeks.

Thanks for the entertainment today guys. This was fun. We should do it again.

CBJ · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:22:31 PM »

Quote from: Gunshy1 on July 10, 2013, 02:54:12 PM

LOL @cbj's response. That's fucking stuuuuuupiiiiddd. He clearly said he had called PayPal and they told him NO refund had happened. Not hat it was pending, that it hadn't t happened at all. O and for someone to freak out like that so quickly and for over so little something has to be very wrong with them mentally.

Haven't placed an order in bmpw because off all the stupid belittling shit he says on UC and never will. What a racist bigot.

EDIT: o look while I was typing cbj is at it will another belittling comment just like at UC, what a stand up guy amiright?

REFUNDED.. ON THE 8th! So either this guy didn't really call, or the paypal rep had no idea what they were doing. THis screen shot was sent to this buyer to prove the payment way made.

As for the

"o look while I was typing cbj is at it will another belittling comment just like at UC, what a stand up guy amiright?"

I have no idea what comments you're talking about at UC. But I think you're pointing your finger at the wrong person...

http://aethercards.com/discourse/the-lol-a-query-um/my-new-promotion/

CBJ

see_squared · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2013, 04:27:57 PM »

this sums up the strange usage of CAPS in this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pdWAcK6Eh8

gerbinillo · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2013, 05:52:07 PM »

@CBJ IÂ´m still waiting for your response. Please ask your boss about it.

Quote from: CBJ on July 10, 2013, 10:07:24 AM

I think he changed his order 4 or 5 times, while he was waiting for the release date to arrive. He wasn't just adding items, he was deleting items.

IÂ´ve shown you the mails and i have no response from you...
Another thing... I donÂ´t know if you asked your boss when he sent the screen shot. He sent 2 screenshots with this mail:

De:   sales@ Este remitente estÃ¡ en tu lista segura.
Enviado:   martes, 09 de julio de 2013 18:50:24
Para:    Jose Luis Alonso (jose_luis_alonso@hotmail.com)

Datos adjuntos:    2 archivos adjuntos
   JOSE.png (236,0 kB) , JOSE 2.png (268,0 kB)
ATTACHED IS A COPY OF THE REFUND FOR YESTERDAY WHICH SHOWS THE REFUND WAS MADE AND FOR TODAY, WHICH IS THE BALANCE OF THE MONEY BECAUSE I NO LONGER WISH TO DO BUSINESS WITH YOU. CLEARLY YOUR SOMEONE WHO I DON'T WANT TO DO BUSINESS WITH SINCE YOU CAN NOT FIGURE THE SIMPLEST OF THINGS OUT. I AM ALSO REFUNDING YOU YOUR MONEY FROM THE 3RD OF JULY ORDER AS WELL

IS IT CLEAR ENOUGH NOW MORON?

DON'T CONTACT ME AGAIN IDIOT.

Thanks!
Mike Ferrante
Sales Manager
Brooke Michael's Poker World

Can you ask him why he didnÂ´t send this screenshot before?

And, are you reading and understanding my mails?. Even if i was the worst buyer or customer in this world, heÂ´s being racist and xenophobic. He is lucky for living in the US; in some countries when someone say words like he told me, he may be in a electric chair at this moment....

ItÂ´s better to be quiet to say the foolish things you are writting; sorry, to say the foolish thigs he is ordering you to say...

Sorry for my english...

CBJ · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2013, 05:58:16 PM »

I did respond to you on page 1 of this thread.

I don't work for him. Do your research before you start posting stuff.