Disturbing Fraudulent Decks

[Don Boyer]

I caught these two auctions on eBay, both from the same seller, "cards.and.decks" from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia:

This is for "Bicycle Big Gun War Series Playing Cards Red & Blue Deck w/ Vintage Tax Stamp"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251212652536

This is for "Tally Ho Deck Red & Blue Circle Back Playing Cards w/1960 Vintage Tax Stamp Seal"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251210957986

Both decks are cellophane sealed; the Big Guns have a "Bicycle" clear tear strip with red lettering while the Tally Ho decks have a solid red tear strip.  They look awfully new for vintage decks, so I did a little digging.

The tax stamp on these decks isn't circa 1940-1965, as the seller claims, but is in fact from 1924-1929.  For the Big Gun decks, that's a big problem - authentic Big Guns were made and sold in just one year, 1918, and only for a few months.  It's one of the shortest print runs of a USPC deck ever made, and they're insanely valuable (when they're the real deal and not reprints from 2011, which these appear to be)!  It doesn't bode well for the Tally Ho decks either - if we're to believe the seller on their stated time frame, these decks have the wrong tax stamp.  If we're to believe the tax stamp, the decks are way too new and decks of that era didn't have cellophane, am I right?  They were usually sealed shut with the tax stamp, and the cards were paper-wrapped and wax-sealed.

Perhaps you're wondering about those too-old tax stamps?  Well, I've spotted sites online that sell tax stamps from decks.  There are people who buy them like postage stamps, as part of a niche philately market.  It's like a deck collector who only buys Bicycle, or only buys joker swap cards...  The stamps are usually pretty cheap, certainly cheap enough to make back the money on a sale this costly with modern decks.

tl; dr: don't buy jackshit from cards.and.decks on eBay.  They're either totally clueless or not to be trusted.

[runIt]

It's stated in the description part of the listing:

This deck is not a vintage deck. It is a new stock from USPCC. However, the original seal was replaced by the vintage tax stamp (from a 1940-1965's vintage deck) to make it a very nice vintage looking deck.

It's not mine btw. 

[Don Boyer]

It's stated in the description part of the listing:

This deck is not a vintage deck. It is a new stock from USPCC. However, the original seal was replaced by the vintage tax stamp (from a 1940-1965's vintage deck) to make it a very nice vintage looking deck.

It's not mine btw. 

Descriptions like that on merchandise are no better than people trying to sell Jerry's Nugget "replicas" on eBay - it's against the terms of service.

I even noticed as I looked harder that the cancellation stamps don't even match - they're from different companies altogether.

[jmrock]

I've really got to say, this bothers the $#!T out of me... Why even do this and introduce these bastardized decks to the marketplace... I will tell you that a few months back I saw a Tally Ho with tax stamp that I actually bid on before reading the fine print... Just browsing and didn't even realize that it was a modern deck (Original Circle Back printed on the bottom should've given it away, but I didn't look closely)... The seller, I will say, is a stand up guy and pointed out that this was a fabricated deck before I got deeper into the bidding... So although I'm certainly against these decks, I will say that the seller acted honorably... I hope he points this out to all of his unsuspecting bidders...

[Don Boyer]

I've really got to say, this bothers the $#!T out of me... Why even do this and introduce these bastardized decks to the marketplace... I will tell you that a few months back I saw a Tally Ho with tax stamp that I actually bid on before reading the fine print... Just browsing and didn't even realize that it was a modern deck (Original Circle Back printed on the bottom should've given it away, but I didn't look closely)... The seller, I will say, is a stand up guy and pointed out that this was a fabricated deck before I got deeper into the bidding... So although I'm certainly against these decks, I will say that the seller acted honorably... I hope he points this out to all of his unsuspecting bidders...

The seller claims that the buyer would have "bragging rights" - can you think of anyone who'd actually brag about having an old tax stamp on a new deck?  And worse - that they paid 1,400-2,000% of the deck's retail price?  The stamps are only worth a couple of bucks a piece!  Only an utter fool would think that's worth bragging about!

[Frost]

I always saw those cards on ebay i knew there was something odd about them that's why i never look at them .

[jmrock]

Here is yet another example of a fabricated deck manufactured for what reason I don't know... I have kept somewhat quiet, but was emailed by someone asking me what I think of the value of this deck and it just sickened me that others who do not know any better are being taken advantage of... The value of this deck is $1.50... The deck was sold by USPCC for $1 and the stamps can be picked up for a few cents... Why make or create  a bastardization of a deck that some can mistake for a genuine vintage deck... I, too, was almost fooled... However, enough already... Some poor sucker actually appears to have purchased these two decks for $55... My goodness... Just awful... Stop slapping Tax Stamps on brand new $1-$5 decks and sending them out into the marketplace...

[Michael]

When there's a market for products, products will appear (fraudulent or not). As long as people keep buying them for such ridiculously high prices, they will remain on the market. The best thing we can do is just to help people learn right?

[xela]

This is why we have forums like this one, to prevent this sort of thing. Hop on and ask a question. Even if you're afraid of looking dumb, it's better to ask a silly question than it is to be the idiot who spends $200 on a fake deck.

[agera94]

I think the most disturbing part about the listing is that the seller even tells you that it's not the real deal, and puts forward that the decks only cost him a few dollars. But hey, it's for the "bragging rights" so that clearly justifies the insane markup.

[MrMollusk]

Where can you buy fake tax stamp seals? Those would make the most awesome stickers.
And as far as authenticity goes, I like to refer to this:
http://www.dananddave.com/learn/articles/dating-playing-cards-from-the-tax-stamp/

[jmrock]

As far as authenticity, it's clear that these decks are BULL$#!T... However, I take offense at the fact that they even exist... Why even create such a thing... I know, I know, it's a free country and they can do whatever they want, but that does not make it right... Given my love of collecting (especially vintage decks) I see these as a complete insult to the hobby and the collector... I may sound a little over the top, but what is most offensive to me is that this is someone who is close to the hobby and that thinks this is clever or perhaps just a way to cash in on unsuspecting people... At the end of the day, it creates another market for fake tax stamp decks that really shouldn't exist... It's also great to know that cellophane can so easily be removed and placed back on a deck without being noticed...

[Don Boyer]

JMRock - first, long time no hear.  We should hang out again sometime!

These decks were written up already in another topic that I started.  I'll merge them.

The stamps don't even match the decks - he claims they're from 1940-1965 or something like that when in fact they're from the late 1920s.  The cancellations on them are not even by USPC - they're from other card manufacturers of the time.  I've seen a website where you can buy the authentic used seals as if they were collectible stamps, and they're really pretty cheap.  The same seller did the same thing with some Tally Ho decks.  And did you notice in the background of his photo you can see (if you look hard) a pack of fake black Jerry's Nuggets?

I reported this as a TOS violation to eBay.  Obviously, they either didn't understand what I was saying or didn't care, because this guy's still in operation.  Perhaps there's a loophole about selling "authentic" goods, even if they're in inauthentic combinations - the stamp and the deck are each real, even if the deck is two years old and the stamp is about 85, plus or minus a bit.

[Utterfool]

The seller claims that the buyer would have "bragging rights" - can you think of anyone who'd actually brag about having an old tax stamp on a new deck?  And worse - that they paid 1,400-2,000% of the deck's retail price?  The stamps are only worth a couple of bucks a piece!  Only an utter fool would think that's worth bragging about!

Actually I am pretty sure I wouldn't even brag about an old tax stamp