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[VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat

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[VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« on: August 03, 2012, 11:57:14 AM »
 

DeckReview

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Clearly classed by the uv500 deck in term of fanning ability but it's still a fine handling deck. Compared to other modern decks I would give it a 4 but after handling a superior version at the start, I have to give this a 3/5.
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2012, 06:43:43 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Clearly classed by the uv500 deck in term of fanning ability but it's still a fine handling deck. Compared to other modern decks I would give it a 4 but after handling a superior version at the start, I have to give this a 3/5.


So you feel that "air-flow" finish in this deck is superior to Magic Finish?

EDIT: a few things on the review and the deck.

I would love to have seen the close-ups in focus.  I couldn't read a thing.  Consider using edits and adding close-ups shot separately.

The "darkness" of the UV-500 deck was an issue that carried over into the Air-Cushion version as well.  Strangely enough, the gaff decks had the lighter, brighter images seen on the Perf-Coat version - they'd actually match that deck better.  It simply looks like a little too much black ink was used or there was inadequate pressure between the plate and the stock when it was printed, allowing some detail to be lost in smudged ink.

I compared for myself the Air-Cushion decks in black with the Perf-Coated ones in White - the release that E put out about 18 months ago was Perf-Coat, though the box still said Air Cushion on it, as was the case with a number of the early Perf-Coat conversions they released.  I found the Perf-Coat on the white deck superior to the Air Cushion on the black - and to the UV500 Masters I had in red and blue.  But I'm not as skilled a flourisher, so that could make the difference.

Anyone else with experience of both prefer UV500 to Performance Coating/Magic Finish?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 07:02:11 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 02:50:33 AM »
 

DeckReview

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I didn't realize the words from the side of the box didn't show up on vid. My bad!

Anyways the side of the uv500 deck says UV500 Ari Flow Finish and the black Perf. Coat deck says Performance Coating on the side.

I did hear about the arcanes labled as air cushion, the 2nd run, but from what I hear from the users, they handle like the perf coating decks out right now but I can't really say with certainty.
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 03:30:19 AM »
 

xela

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Black Arcanes had:

- Uv500 Air-Glide (identical to Air-Flow)
- Air Cushion
- Performance Coating

They may have had Air-Flow too, but I believe hearing those were extremely rare or something.

Either way, Air-Flow is infinitely better than magic/cushion but I believe it had more to do with the paper from Cincinnati and not the coatings. The Cincinnati paper is unparalleled.
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 06:07:42 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Black Arcanes had:

- Uv500 Air-Glide (identical to Air-Flow)
- Air Cushion
- Performance Coating

They may have had Air-Flow too, but I believe hearing those were extremely rare or something.

Either way, Air-Flow is infinitely better than magic/cushion but I believe it had more to do with the paper from Cincinnati and not the coatings. The Cincinnati paper is unparalleled.

That paper sort of still exists - it's their UV500 stock.  While they don't offer it in general because of the high cost, David Blaine used some last year for the White Lions UV blue decks.  Of the UV500 decks I've got, they can take a lot of use that would wither ordinary stocks.

But the rest of the paper used in Cincinnati is the same paper they're using in Kentucky.  They don't make their paper - they source it from mills just like any other large-quantity paper-consuming business.

Let's try steering this closer to the topic - DeckReview, what would you say in terms of comparing the stock between a UV500 black Arcane deck and a current-issue one?
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 12:31:33 PM »
 

DeckReview

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Well here's a picture of the decks I used for review. The uv500 Air Flow and the Performance coating.

Anyways I didn't know the black arcane box came in uv500 Air Glide but I'm pretty sure the cards are the same as the uv500 air flow but I can't say for certain.

@Don
I can't give you a 100% answer because, well my only uv500 deck is 3 years old and running close to 4 in november and I only had the perf coat deck for a couple months. But in my opinion, they are pretty close to identical in terms of springiness and bendiness.

The main difference is really the fanning ability. The uv500 needs a lighter spin to make a giant circle fan while more finesse and a faster mode of method is needed for the performance coat deck.
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 10:34:44 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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What I don't understand is that if UV 500 is a stock, why is it compared to Magic Finish? Because the Magic Finish (Performance coating) cards don't have UV 500 stock? Do we not know the name of the finish on the UV version?
 

Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2012, 12:19:55 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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What I don't understand is that if UV 500 is a stock, why is it compared to Magic Finish? Because the Magic Finish (Performance coating) cards don't have UV 500 stock? Do we not know the name of the finish on the UV version?

We DO know the name.  It's called "Air-Flow".

The boxes usually said "UV500 Air-Flow Finish".  But just like the air cushioning dimples on an "Air Cushion" card have nothing whatsoever to do with the finish, neither does the "UV500" part of "UV500 Air-Flow Finish".  UV500 was the stock (I'm guessing it was 500 gsm [grams per square meter, a measure of the weight of the cardstock]), and Air-Flow was the name they gave the finish.

Which, knowing USPC's standard operating procedure, may well have been just another name for "standard" finish.
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 12:31:31 AM »
 

Aaron

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What I don't understand is that if UV 500 is a stock, why is it compared to Magic Finish? Because the Magic Finish (Performance coating) cards don't have UV 500 stock? Do we not know the name of the finish on the UV version?

We DO know the name.  It's called "Air-Flow".

The boxes usually said "UV500 Air-Flow Finish".  But just like the air cushioning dimples on an "Air Cushion" card have nothing whatsoever to do with the finish, neither does the "UV500" part of "UV500 Air-Flow Finish".  UV500 was the stock (I'm guessing it was 500 gsm [grams per square meter, a measure of the weight of the cardstock]), and Air-Flow was the name they gave the finish.

Which, knowing USPC's standard operating procedure, may well have been just another name for "standard" finish.
I thought I would also throw in that the UV part of UV500 stands for Ultraviolet because there are stuff in the stock that shines under a black/UV light.

Personally I prefer the newer Magic Finish over the UV500. I think people should stop believing that UV500 is better just because it is older. There was one point it was better, that was just after it had stopped being produced, right after USPCC moved to erlanger when the quality wasn't as good as it is now. But now the modern finishes are far superior to any old cincinatti decks.
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 12:50:36 AM »
 

DeckReview

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So why does the UV500 Black Arcane deck fan better than the performance coating deck when the finish is only Air-Cushion?

Placebo?
My UV500 deck is way more broken in than the perf coating?
I'm lying to mess with your minds to make a debatable topic for kicks?!

Well my answer to those questions and possible answers is no.

Here is my explanation why based on absolutely nothing.  :karrit:
You know when you mix baking soda and vinegar it bubbles for reasons not worthy of a google search?

Well maybe if you apply standard air cushion finish to a deck with Ellusionist's UV500 stock, the deck just fans better that way just because!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 12:51:58 AM by DeckReview »
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 03:08:13 AM »
 

xela

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Don, based on E's posts, what I gathered is that USPCC changed paper suppliers during the move. As far as I know, the UV stock DB used was not the same as the old Cincinnati paper.

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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 03:21:31 AM »
 

Aaron

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Don, based on E's posts, what I gathered is that USPCC changed paper suppliers during the move. As far as I know, the UV stock DB used was not the same as the old Cincinnati paper.
To me it was that E could still have the paper if they wanted it, but the number of decks they had to commit to was so high that they couldnt do it.

It is possible then that DB commited to enough decks. I guess it is possible for his personal decks and all variants of WL. I am sure he could afford alot of decks.

But most likely it is different than the Ellusionist UV stock.
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Re: [VID] Black Arcane Perf. Coat
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 05:41:56 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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So why does the UV500 Black Arcane deck fan better than the performance coating deck when the finish is only Air-Cushion?

Placebo?
My UV500 deck is way more broken in than the perf coating?
I'm lying to mess with your minds to make a debatable topic for kicks?!

Well my answer to those questions and possible answers is no.

Here is my explanation why based on absolutely nothing.  :karrit:
You know when you mix baking soda and vinegar it bubbles for reasons not worthy of a google search?

Well maybe if you apply standard air cushion finish to a deck with Ellusionist's UV500 stock, the deck just fans better that way just because!

Actually, there are two very simple factors that would determine why your old deck is better than your new one.

1) There are a lot of factors that can alter a deck's performance even before it's been placed in the box, never mind after it comes out.

2) Your stating your personal preference as a reviewer.  Someone else could try your two decks and say the other is the preferred deck, or simply agree with you.  A hundred cardists testing both decks and rating them on various performance factors would end up producing pretty close to one hundred different detailed ratings.  One man's favorite dessert may be another man's poison...

In the end, while you are applying what you believe to be some degree of impartiality, a review of anything by any reviewer has the reviewer's preferences factored into it to a greater or lesser degree.  Show me a completely impartial reviewer, and I'll show you a computer with some really great sensors and robotics!  Reviews don't apply the scientific method - and frankly, aren't meant to.

Consider it like movie reviewers.  Not every reviewer agrees about every movie - in some cases you could have two reviewers give completely opposed views of the same movie.  So what are you to do?  The secret isn't in listening to all the reviewers, or taking a poll of the general public, but in listening to the reviewer whose tastes most closely match your own.  Listen to that reviewer and you stand the highest chance of watching a movie you'll like because that reviewer recommended it.

That same thing applies to reviews of ANYTHING, including decks of cards.

Don, based on E's posts, what I gathered is that USPCC changed paper suppliers during the move. As far as I know, the UV stock DB used was not the same as the old Cincinnati paper.


Which E article was it?  To the best of my knowledge, they stopped using UV500 because it became too expensive to make reasonably affordable decks.  The odds that they changed suppliers when they only moved from one side of the Ohio River to the other are low - Erlanger is more of a suburb of Cincinnati, and is closer to the largest of the three local airports.  The old plant and the new one are maybe a half-hour away from each other.

Is it possible that Blaine's deck run didn't use UV500?  Sure.  I postulated recently that the "500" in UV500 was probably a reference to the paper's weight in grams per square meter (gsm).  Everyone remembers just how thick E decks were until recently, right?  A 500-gsm stock would certainly account for it - Bicycle Rider Back decks vary, but the last time I checked, it was changed to a lighter 300-gsm stock last year because of problems with the finish.  But we know it's a UV-reflective stock, just as the UV500 was, so it could be UV500, or it could be, oh, perhaps UV400, or UV350...


To me it was that E could still have the paper if they wanted it, but the number of decks they had to commit to was so high that they couldnt do it.

It is possible then that DB commited to enough decks. I guess it is possible for his personal decks and all variants of WL. I am sure he could afford alot of decks.

But most likely it is different than the Ellusionist UV stock.

"Having to commit to a large number of decks" is another way of saying "too expensive."  It sounds like in order for E to make their UV500 decks at least close to the same price, they would have needed to order way more than they were willing or perhaps even able to commit to.  USPC gives volume discounts - the more decks you make, the cheaper per-deck it gets, but you still have to pay for all of those decks.  If the cost increases because of increased paper costs, the only way to bring the price down to where it used to be (or failing that, low enough to be sellable at a minimally-acceptable profit margin) would be to print more decks, enough to get the per-deck costs low enough to make it economical again - but there's still that niggling issue about needing to PAY for all that many decks, which comes before you can actually sell any of them, other than pre-orders, but even pre-orders might not have been enough to cover the gap.  And not just pay for them, but pay for storing them, pay for having them moved around, etc.

For the White Lions, USPC made several major exceptions for David Blaine.  He was permitted to personally supervise the actual printing and finishing processes, and they allowed him to switch colors in the middle of a press run from blue to red for the deck backs, resulting in the limited edition purple "rainbow" decks that actually come in varying shades of purple because of this process.  The UV decks were simply a matter of tossing in some sheets of UV stock at some point in the blue portion of the press run and keeping track of the decks that utilized that paper - easy enough with a UV flashlight!

As with pretty much every deck he's made, the design was initially for his own personal use.  When they were created, NONE were intended for public sale - though in the back of everyone's minds at DB Productions, I'm sure they all knew that a point would come where David would make a decent amount of decks available to his adoring fans and playing card collectors.

And, oh yeah, David can afford to make a LOT of decks, VAST QUANTITIES of decks...  He probably burns through a few packs a day on average just with performing here and there and giving some to people as gifts.  The guy can be really impromptu when he wants to be, aside from his major stunts testing the limits of human endurance, which are meticulously planned to the final detail.

It would surprise me not in the least to learn that yes, this is not exactly the same stock as the UV500 that was used over at E.  But it would also not surprise me in the least to learn that the stock David used came from the same mill and used the same processes to be created, but perhaps was simply of a different weight or something.  Remember, there were nowhere near as many UV decks made as ordinary blue ones...  He was willing and could afford to make a portion of his run out of the stuff, but possibly not the entire run.  And it would not surprise me to learn that creating this UV stock is some sort of trade secret, exclusive to the same mill that created the UV500 paper, in which case, ANY UV-reflective stock would come from the same source.

But of course, I have no proof of this one way or another.  Perhaps Robert can ask Bill that when he speaks to him about the other "conspiracy"...  :))
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