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Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo

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Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« on: July 06, 2012, 04:36:31 PM »
 

CBJ

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I received this today in my FB inbox

"http://www.flickr.com/photos/32482342@N05/7515811126/
Steampunk Heroes Playing Cards coming to KICKSTARTER next week!"



From the site

"Steampunk Heroes© Custom Playing Card Deck coming to KICKSTARTER next week!

Steampunk Heroes ©

Inspired by a love of Steampunk and LEGO® bricks, The Steampunk Heroes © playing card deck has been crafted by the designers at V&A Steamworks. These amazing cards feature all of the traditions of a playing card deck combined with the innovative beauty of Victorian Age characters pulled right from the pages of history. A Steampunk themed Queen Victoria invites you to enjoy the company of Thomas Edison, Nicola Tesla, Florence Nightingale, Lord Chelmsford, Nellie Bly, Madame Curie, Mark Twain, FOUR Jack the Rippers and a Nunchuck wielding Abraham Lincoln!

This unique deck gives you two, count 'em, TWO King of Clubs! You have the option of supporting the Father of DC power, Thomas Edison - or choosing the genius of AC power, Nicola Tesla, as your King.

Your One Eyed Jacks all feature eye-patches.

The Bedpost Queen features an appropriate Steampunk themed spanner wrench.

The Suicide King has put his rapier through his head ( darn Zulus... )

The traditional BICYCLE Joker has been replaced with a top hatted Penny Farthing rider.

EVERY card in the deck is customized with a Steampunk themed design ( not just the Court Cards ).

The Victorian inspired Card Back features a tribute to Georges Melies' classic film Voyage to the Moon. It has been crafted from a custom 24" x 24" LEGO® model and professionally photographed to supply the custom card back imagery.
Be you are Deck Collector, a LEGO enthusiast, a Magician or a Steampunk fan this special deck belongs in your collection!

Printed by USPCC/Bicycle®
There was never a choice. The only way that this deck will get printed is by the best in the business, United States Playing Card Company. An official BICYCLE deck, Steampunk Heroes © will feature premium card stock and the World Famous USPCC Air Flow Finish."

__________________________________________________________________________

I really can't see this being approved by USPCC unless approval is given by Lego Group in Denmark.

If it does move forward, it would appeal to Bicycle collectors, and Lego collectors

CBJ
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 02:24:33 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 04:55:15 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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Just slapping a ® after the word doesn't necessarily mean everyone is all cool in the hood.

Granted I'm not the most experienced card designer out there, but I'm almost 100% sure USPCC will say "no way jose" when they see that. Without a lot of lawyers having nice discussions, there is no way I can see this happening. Sure hope they figure all that out before people start pledging.
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 05:33:21 PM »
 

xela

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Right... well I am not sure what Lego's policies are. I know they allow people to profit from stop-motion videos that use Lego characters, but I don't think they will bite for this.

The creator should just contact Lego and ask. They will probably not let him or her continue, but they may also want to do an officially branded Lego deck.

I don't think the issue here would be copyright infringement. I'm no lawyer but the problem seems to be that Lego is being represented in a way they may not want to be represented in, and the fact that with this product lying around, it may confused future customers if Lego ever decides to push out their own line of cards.

Lastly, I don't see any credit to Lego either.

I am genuinely curious how this is going to go down. Seeing as how they are launching the KS, my guess is USPC has already approved the project but hasn't ran it by their legal department (this happens too often...).

Time to get out the popcorn and see what happens. *munch*
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 05:38:12 PM »
 

Evan

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Well it's definitely not my style at all but I may pick up a couple to review and just to have in my collection.
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 09:02:56 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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There's no way that USPC would make this deck if they didn't obtain the necessary approvals from Lego.  You have to own the rights to your images, and making something like this would require Lego to sign off on it.  And it wouldn't be a Kickstarter project - they'd just MAKE it.


While it is possible (though improbable) this deck will get made, it's unlikely that it will occur through a KS project.
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 09:37:16 PM »
 

CBJ

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Well, this deck is moving forward!

The designer messaged me

""Wasn't easy, but I have my full releases from Enfield.
: )"

"I know some folks who know some folks.
Plus I have been a well know member of the Adult building community for a number of years, so I am n0 stranger to the nice folks at my favorite toy company. It took a while, but all my permissions are finally in place to move forward. Should be live on Kickstarter next week."

I'm extremely curious now to what the tuck box will look like

CBJ
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 10:23:16 PM »
 

Evan

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I'm glad to see that these will be moving forward!
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 11:44:46 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm extremely curious now to what the tuck box will look like

CBJ

My guess would be interlocking blocks in many collectible colors!  :))  Just imagine, big ol' tuck boxes that actually clipped together like Lego blocks!

Now I'm more interested in seeing where this goes.  While the Steampunk theme has been getting heavily used lately, this deck's application of Lego images sets it apart.

Maybe Lego will even make Steampunk Heroes kits!
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2012, 12:58:07 AM »
 

CBJ

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It would be very cool if you got a mini-fig with a deck (or a brick)

CBJ
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2012, 11:24:35 AM »
 

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Hello AetherCards!

It's my pleasure to meet you all.

My name is Guy Himber and I am the creator/designer of the Steampunk Heroes Custom Playing Card Deck coming to Kickstarter next week.

I hope I can answer any questions you may have and I always love to hear any feedback you can share regarding my upcoming deck.

Some quick info:

I spent a LONG time putting this deck together. I own upwards of 80 decks myself and have done extensive research to make the cards as traditional ( within their wild design ) as possible. Yes, I am a HUGE fan of both LEGO Brick and Steampunk. And playing cards for that matter. I think my favorite decks in my collection to date are the Americana, Monarchs and now, most recently, the Deck of the Living Dead.

A few folks have asked how did I get releases from LEGO Co. to create the deck. Easy answer .... I asked them
: )

Please feel free to ask me any questions, I will be happy to answer them!

Best,

GH
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 11:25:10 AM by Himber »
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2012, 01:05:53 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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Hi Guy,

Welcome to the Discourse! I think the cards look great. The extra design elements fit with the Lego characters very well. I'm curious if the Lego Characters on the Court Cards are Photographs of real toys or Renders of 3d Models? Either way they're very impressive. Great lighting and cleanup if they're photos and very clean models and renders if they're 3d!

It's very cool that you were able to get permission from Lego. It almost inspires me to try to go back to my original deck idea (a Big Lebowski / Retro Bowling Deck) and try to get copyright permission!

I'll definitely be pledging for some of your decks.

thanks, Randy

 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2012, 02:24:56 PM »
 

Himber

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I think there already is ( though not a very good ) Big Lebowski deck?  Made by AQUARIUS cards in Canada

The Steampunk Heroes are created from Photographs of custom minifigs I originally created for a magazine article.  They feature many many custom parts from secondary market makers and vendors.  I spent many hours refining and adjusting the images until they felt right.   Like all things that look effortless plenty of time was spent behind the scenes.

Here's a preview of the JOKER



« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 02:25:47 PM by Himber »
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2012, 11:33:46 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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It looks great.  I'm surprised that the people at Lego didn't want to just fund and make the deck themselves.  Or did they?  :))
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2012, 11:54:19 PM »
 

Evan

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Very nice looking Joker! Some parts look like they are 3D. Are you using 3d software to design it?
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2012, 06:32:24 PM »
 

Himber

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Everything starts with a photo and then Photoshop manipulation creates the look.

: )
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2012, 10:23:07 PM »
 

loldudex2

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Wow Himber, this deck looks fantastic! I really love how they look professional, yet playful. Do you know when this Kickstarter will go up?

It would be very cool if you got a mini-fig with a deck (or a brick)

CBJ


I was thinking the same exact think. It would be cool if there was a pledge where you could get mini-fig's based off of one (or even all) of the court cards!
I LIKE MAILBOXES!
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 06:58:48 PM »
 

Himber

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STEAMPUNK HEROES Playing Cards have gone LIVE on KICKSTARTER!

Share with all your friends!  Tell the world!

<a href="http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/406037970/steampunk-heroes-lego-inspired-bicycle-playing-car" rel="nofollow">www.kickstarter.com/projects/406037970/steampunk-heroes-l...</a>

I appreciate your support for this passion fueled project.

Best,

Guy
( aka V&A Steamworks )
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 07:30:22 PM »
 

Evan

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The deck looks really great! It's unlike any deck that I own which is part of the reason I like it so much!
One thing I noticed is that on the kickstarter page, it says that these will have Air Flow Finish. Is that the same Air Flow Finish that was used on the old Ellusionist decks? If so, I cant wait to see how these will handle!
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 12:26:29 AM »
 

Himber

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Here's a great article from the Ellusionist folks about USPCC finishes

http://blog.ellusionist.com/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-uspc-ellusionist-but-were-afraid-to-ask/
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 12:47:50 AM »
 

Evan

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Ok, so this is really Air Flow Finish?
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2012, 01:25:28 AM »
 

Himber

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Wow Himber, this deck looks fantastic! I really love how they look professional, yet playful. Do you know when this Kickstarter will go up?

It would be very cool if you got a mini-fig with a deck (or a brick)

CBJ


I was thinking the same exact think. It would be cool if there was a pledge where you could get mini-fig's based off of one (or even all) of the court cards!

That's an option!
Take a look at the pledge rewards
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 01:26:16 AM by Himber »
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2012, 01:29:41 AM »
 

Himber

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Ok, so this is really Air Flow Finish?

It is the current USPCC "Air Flow Finish"

The next upgrade would be to go to the BEE CASINO grade stock ( which is what Ellusionist like to use )

If the pledges go high enough , this is an option I might explore.

Read the Ellusionist article and it best details the meanings and process for the different finish names with USPCC cards.  Much of the information that is out there is misquoted or misunderstood.

The Ellusionist folks know there stuff best.
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2012, 03:32:17 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ok, so this is really Air Flow Finish?

It is the current USPCC "Air Flow Finish"

The next upgrade would be to go to the BEE CASINO grade stock ( which is what Ellusionist like to use )

If the pledges go high enough , this is an option I might explore.

Read the Ellusionist article and it best details the meanings and process for the different finish names with USPCC cards.  Much of the information that is out there is misquoted or misunderstood.

The Ellusionist folks know there stuff best.

The article you quoted is pretty well out of date.  The person who wrote it no longer works at Ellusionist.  I've spoken with him on the phone; he's a nice guy.

I've written a few posts about this topic, culled from research as well as discussing it with the actual people who make decks - some of whom have indeed been on the factory floor.

As of right now, there are exactly two finishes being produced for USPC decks: "standard" and "Magic Finish".  "Standard" is called different things on different cards: Ivory, Air Cushion, Cambric, Linoid, etc.  "Magic Finish" is commonly called Magic Finish, but there are variances from this: Ellusionist called it by its original code name before it went into wide production, which is Performance Finish.  The New York Magic Project used it on their white Arrco decks and called it "Premium Finish".  In some cases, like the early "transition" decks from the time when Ellusionist was converting all their decks to Performance Coating, many still bore the "Air Cushion" name, and some were never made in Air Cushion, having gone straight from Air-Flow to Performance Coating.  (Specifically, there were many decks that existed in large quantities of the original Air-Flow Finish that didn't completely sell out until after the transition, thus they never appeared as Air-Cushion - one example that comes to mind are the red and blue Bicycle Masters.)  Another instance of Magic Finish going by another name was the CARC release of black-and-silver Acorn Back Erdnase Bee decks.  Because they like their decks to appear like old-time decks, they kept the traditional old-time names for the finish - Ivory on smooth decks, Cambric on textured decks - but because of the silver ink in that deck, the actual finish used was Magic Finish.  Magic Finish was practically made for decks with metallic inks or high ink saturation to allow them smoother performance characteristics.

There is a third, experimental finish.  So far, the only deck made with it was the Vortex deck, and only limited quantities of that whole print run had it, maybe 10%.  But it's still an experimental finish, not being made widely available without further testing.

As far as that old stuff about web press versus sheet-fed press, it's ridiculous.  The web press is used for printing decks in large quantities, period.  Anything they mass produce in the tens of thousands will go on the web press.  It used to be the preferred press at the old Cincinnati plant, but this had a lot to do with the fact that the sheet-fed press there was a dinosaur being held together with spit, chewing gum and prayers.  But it was also the press used for any short-run deck, so many custom decks did get the sheet-fed process.  Ellusionist usually orders LARGE quantities of their decks, so they get the web press.  In the newer Erlanger plant, the sheet-fed press is fantastic, and some might even argue that it's better than the web press!  It's produced such complex and difficult-to-make decks as the Tendril and the Seasons decks.  I have that knowledge from a prominent magician and friend who's been at the plant in both locations on more than one occasion - his decks are produced by a USPC subsidiary company overseas.

The USPC is known for having a fairly fluid set of rules for how things get done and what can and can't be done.  There was a period of time where any deck released under the Bicycle name had to be called "Air Cushion" finish, regardless of what the actual finish was.  But that time has passed - the Bicycle decks made by Ellusionist today say "Performance Coating" and not "Air Cushion Finish" on them.  Anything without the Bicycle brand could be named whatever the hell the designer wanted, as long as he was paying for it.

And as far as textured finishes versus smooth ones - at one time in history, just as there used to be different finishes on different brands, there used to be cotton rollers that "applied" the textured coating to textured decks.  Those rollers have long been replaced with smooth, steel models, and any texture or lack thereof on a deck's surface isn't done in the finish - it's done on the paper at the time it's being pressed together into the "graphite and glue sandwich" that modern playing cards are made with.  Two rolls of paper enter, glue is applied to make them adhere to each other and the glue itself is infused with graphite to keep cards from being translucent and thus easily read through the back if there was a strong enough light source in the right place.  As this sandwich is being flattened, that's when the textured surface is (or isn't) added.

Oh, you mentioned "Air Flow Finish" and Bee Casino stock as an "upgrade".  The two are completely UNRELATED to each other.  The first is a finish, the second is a stock (paper) that the finish eventually gets applied to.  One is not an upgrade of the other, just like apples aren't an upgrade from steak.  At present, they have four stocks: Bicycle, Aristocrat, Bee and Bee Casino, listed in approximate order of thickness and grade.  Don't even get me started about variances in the stock...

I'm not trying to belittle you, because quite frankly, as much as we all love USPC products, they can be more than a little opaque to their clients, particularly in the Customs division.  And the consumers?  Well, they're totally in the dark, unless they do the searching people like some of us here have done.  But if you're going to be in the business of making playing cards, it's best to know what you're getting into and how things get done at the print shop.
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2012, 10:05:58 AM »
 

CBJ

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Man, this deck is humming along

As of this minute, it's at 63% of the goal.

$5,386 of $8,500 ( 112 backers )

all this.. in 1 day!

Amazing!

CBJ
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 10:16:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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We're looking at a project that's going to go deep into overfunding territory, for certain.  I look forward to seeing it happen!
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