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CBJ · « **on:** January 18, 2012, 09:21:03 AM »

Interesting post from BigBlindMedia...

"
NEWS FLASH - the new karnival deck (karnival inferno) has just been banned by BICYCLE. they won't manufacture it due to potential satantic imagery?!?! how ROCK are we?

First... another Karnival deck???

Second... refuse to print a deck?? wow

CBJ

Kanped · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2012, 09:23:55 AM »

Ha ha ha... awesome. I like this a look a lot, actually. I guess they're running Haicycle or Cartimundi for this one, then? Maybe one of the more liberal USPCC derivatives will print it (Forunier, Canada).

EDIT: Oh, wait. Do they mean they just won't print it under the Bicycle brand? Who cares?!

Evan · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2012, 09:45:34 AM »

That is going to be just another freaky deck. I have only liked a couple BBM decks and this one.... I don't like at all

Don Boyer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2012, 02:29:15 PM »

Their last two decks weren't Bicycles, and their last deck wasn't USPC - it was Fournier. Since their British-based, it's probably as easier for them to approach other companies over there; there's a few to choose from.

I still find it odd that USPC "banned" this deck - might it be a publicity stunt?

Kanped · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2012, 05:00:16 PM »

Well, the wording states that it was banned by 'Bicycle', not the USPCC so I'm guessing they just didn't want it put out under their brand. I guess we'll see if there's suddenly a Fournier Karnival deck in a month's time.

xela · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2012, 05:05:31 PM »

I think the middle-finger is more indicative of why the deck was declined. If it was declined purely because of Satanic imagery, then as much as I have a distaste for BBM decks, that's just wrong. Companies should push forward the concept of free speech and free art. If religious zealots are offended by the imagery, they are within reason to not purchase the cards.

I guess this is the deck they were talking about on the phone last time when I asked about what kind of things can be declined by their legal department. I am curious to see where BBM prints now.

Reylek · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2012, 05:24:16 PM »

USPC is a private company, and while the rules are generally "unwritten", there are certain things that they may decide not to print. If I recall correctly, the original design for the Ace of Spades on E's Ghost Deck had more detailed snakes. USPC had an issue with this for some reason, so the snake artwork was toned down a bit.

As a private company that promotes a family brand/product line, it's totally their prerogative to rufse to print whatever images they like, whatever the reason may be.

In the case of this particular deck, we don't know exactly why BBM was turned down. And odds are there is a company out there somewhere that would print it. Alternately, I'm sure USPC told BBM what changes they could make to the deck in order to make it "acceptable".

xela · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2012, 05:31:32 PM »

Quote from: Reylek on January 18, 2012, 05:24:16 PM

USPC is a private company, and while the rules are generally "unwritten", there are certain things that they may decide not to print. If I recall correctly, the original design for the Ace of Spades on E's Ghost Deck had more detailed snakes. USPC had an issue with this for some reason, so the snake artwork was toned down a bit.

As a private company that promotes a family brand/product line, it's totally their prerogative to rufse to print whatever images they like, whatever the reason may be.

In the case of this particular deck, we don't know exactly why BBM was turned down. And odds are there is a company out there somewhere that would print it. Alternately, I'm sure USPC told BBM what changes they could make to the deck in order to make it "acceptable".

It's not a question of whether or not it is within their legal rights, it's a question of whether or not it's an act that should be promoted or frowned upon.

USPCC being a family brand is an odd argument on their behalf, considering they are the distributors of some of the most popular pornographic decks in history, as well as some of the goriest decks and controversial decks.

It's pretty clear here that the ulterior motive is a personal distaste within their legal department.

Derek · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2012, 06:56:19 PM »

If anyone here owns the BICYCLE alchemy deck, you'll realize how ridiculous this is. That deck is so full of satanic freaky images, 10x worse than that joker.

dmbaggs · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2012, 07:39:06 PM »

Yeah this was weird to read about. BBM seemed pretty excited about it haha.

Could be a publicity stunt... it makes for talk on both ends. BBM is "too rock for Bicycle" (as they put it) and Bicycle is trying to keep up an image. That's kind of the vibe I'm getting from this.

I don't care for the deck anyways so it really means very little to me

Don Boyer · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2012, 11:56:37 PM »

Quote from: Derek911 on January 18, 2012, 06:56:19 PM

If anyone here owns the BICYCLE alchemy deck, you'll realize how ridiculous this is. That deck is so full of satanic freaky images, 10x worse than that joker.

Same goes for the Anne Stokes deck. No demons flipping the bird, but all the other imagery is in line with this joker.

I still assert there's a publicity stunt behind this.

Aaron · « **Reply #11 on:** January 19, 2012, 12:14:12 AM »

I doubt it is a publicity thing, This deck IMO is not what should be being printed especially by a bigger company, Why would we want some twisted demonic thing on out cards? Cards are suposed to be beautiful and elegant, Sure some skulls in a deck look cool but crazy Devils fingering people, I dont think the USPCC would want their company represented with this deck and personally I dont like it I feel they went a little too far on this one.

Kanped · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2012, 04:02:10 AM »

Quote from: Aaron on January 19, 2012, 12:14:12 AM

crazy Devils fingering people

Ha ha ha... well, they didn't quite go THAT far. As Alex pointed out, they have printed actually pornographic decks before. Thy're supposed to be providing a service but I agree that as a private company, they have the right to refuse for any reason. I still think it's just that they didn't want it under the Bicycle logo rather than refusing to print it altogether.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2012, 12:07:43 PM »

Quote from: Kanped on January 19, 2012, 04:02:10 AM

Quote from: Aaron on January 19, 2012, 12:14:12 AM
crazy Devils fingering people

Ha ha ha... well, they didn't quite go THAT far. As Alex pointed out, they have printed actually pornographic decks before. Thy're supposed to be providing a service but I agree that as a private company, they have the right to refuse for any reason. I still think it's just that they didn't want it under the Bicycle logo rather than refusing to print it altogether.

I didn't read the news flash myself, but I don't think they're using Bicycle on their decks anymore - their last two decks didn't have it (Hornets and Death Heads). It could be that people having sex makes them less squeamish than a devil character flipping people the bird.

Derek · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2012, 01:07:41 PM »

Oh wow I didn't notice his fingers there.. I agree it's borderline for sure, but I still look back on the alchemy deck I bought and it's insanely horrific lol. They have the right do whatever though!

Kanped · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2012, 01:45:33 PM »

I don't see any satanic images in the Alchemy deck. lots of blood and skulls but nothing traditionally satanic like the above image. I don't think he's supposed to be flipping people off, I think he's usually depicted like that and it pre-dates the use of 'the bird'.

Hmmm... decided to do a little research and it seems that it's usually depicted holding both the middle and index finger outstretched but there are early examples .

It's a depiction of 'Baphomet' and it isn't satanic at all, but commonly mistaken for it. I actually knew the rest myself (it was in 'Broken Sword', if anyone ever played that). Baphomet was a fictional god invented by King Phillip IV of France. He didn't like the Knight's Templar very much (long story short) so he invented this god and claimed that the Templars were worshipping it as an excuse to start an inquisition. Of course, the inquisitors knew that this was nonsense so rather than torturing them with the intent of conversion, the inquisitors simply executed or tortured to death the Knights Templar, killing almost all of them and forcing the rest and their vast wealth into hiding. The Templars continued to exist underground and in the 17th century resurfaced as pirates (the historical details about this are sketchy at best because they were still a secret organization at this point). The organization survived and grew throughout this period and became what we know today as the Free Masons.

tl;dr That's not Satan.

Evan · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:00:48 PM »

Quote from: Kanped on January 19, 2012, 01:45:33 PM

I don't see any satanic images in the Alchemy deck. lots of blood and skulls but nothing traditionally satanic like the above image. I don't think he's supposed to be flipping people off, I think he's usually depicted like that and it pre-dates the use of 'the bird'.

Hmmm... decided to do a little research and it seems that it's usually depicted holding both the middle and index finger outstretched but there are early examples .

It's a depiction of 'Baphomet' and it isn't satanic at all, but commonly mistaken for it. I actually knew the rest myself (it was in 'Broken Sword', if anyone ever played that). Baphomet was a fictional god invented by King Phillip IV of France. He didn't like the Knight's Templar very much (long story short) so he invented this god and claimed that the Templars were worshipping it as an excuse to start an inquisition. Of course, the inquisitors knew that this was nonsense so rather than torturing them with the intent of conversion, the inquisitors simply executed or tortured to death the Knights Templar, killing almost all of them and forcing the rest and their vast wealth into hiding. The Templars continued to exist underground and in the 17th century resurfaced as pirates (the historical details about this are sketchy at best because they were still a secret organization at this point). The organization survived and grew throughout this period and became what we know today as the Free Masons.

tl;dr That's not Satan.

Do you not see those satanic star things? (I don't know what they are called)

loldudex2 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:11:41 PM »

Quote from: MagicAddictz on January 19, 2012, 02:00:48 PM

Quote from: Kanped on January 19, 2012, 01:45:33 PM
I don't see any satanic images in the Alchemy deck. lots of blood and skulls but nothing traditionally satanic like the above image. I don't think he's supposed to be flipping people off, I think he's usually depicted like that and it pre-dates the use of 'the bird'.

Hmmm... decided to do a little research and it seems that it's usually depicted holding both the middle and index finger outstretched but there are early examples .

It's a depiction of 'Baphomet' and it isn't satanic at all, but commonly mistaken for it. I actually knew the rest myself (it was in 'Broken Sword', if anyone ever played that). Baphomet was a fictional god invented by King Phillip IV of France. He didn't like the Knight's Templar very much (long story short) so he invented this god and claimed that the Templars were worshipping it as an excuse to start an inquisition. Of course, the inquisitors knew that this was nonsense so rather than torturing them with the intent of conversion, the inquisitors simply executed or tortured to death the Knights Templar, killing almost all of them and forcing the rest and their vast wealth into hiding. The Templars continued to exist underground and in the 17th century resurfaced as pirates (the historical details about this are sketchy at best because they were still a secret organization at this point). The organization survived and grew throughout this period and became what we know today as the Free Masons.

tl;dr That's not Satan.
Do you not see those satanic star things? (I don't know what they are called)

They are called Pentagrams.

AceGambit · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:13:47 PM »

Quote from: MagicAddictz on January 19, 2012, 02:00:48 PM

Do you not see those satanic star things? (I don't know what they are called)

That's called a pentacle (often mis-referred to as pentagram), and it's not entirely satanic. The symbol has a variety of meanings in various religions throughout history; however, it usually carries some sort of religious connotations with it. Be it Satanism, Wiccan, or even Christianity, it has symbolism in all of them.

Kanped · « **Reply #19 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:24:28 PM »

I didn't see a complete pentacle in any of the cards in the alchemy deck. There were things that looked vaguely like them and I might have missed a couple, I guess but I didn't see anything that was definitely a pentacle. As AceGambit pointed out, it's also not really a satanic symbol. The lower four points depict the 4 elements and I think the other one is the soul? Not sure, i's used to represent whole bunches of stuff. interestingly, both that and the Sabbatic Goat pictured above were introduced into popular culture by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_Levi that bloke (and his damn fine beard).

AceGambit · « **Reply #20 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:30:37 PM »

Quote from: Kanped on January 19, 2012, 02:24:28 PM

I didn't see a complete pentacle in any of the cards in the alchemy deck.

Knapped, I do believe you are correct, at a closer examination of my Google search results for that deck, which I do not own, I believe the confusion was with the 6 sided circle encased star on the back of the Alchemist X deck. A six sided star has certain meaning in Jewish culture, but when enclosed in a circle I don't believe I've ever seen that used to represent anything specific.

Kanped · « **Reply #21 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:36:05 PM »

Freemasons use it, actually. I think it can be the Seal of Solomon (which the pentacle can also be).

Evan · « **Reply #22 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:41:04 PM »

Quote from: Kanped on January 19, 2012, 02:24:28 PM

I didn't see a complete pentacle in any of the cards in the alchemy deck. There were things that looked vaguely like them and I might have missed a couple, I guess but I didn't see anything that was definitely a pentacle. As AceGambit pointed out, it's also not really a satanic symbol. The lower four points depict the 4 elements and I think the other one is the soul? Not sure, i's used to represent whole bunches of stuff. interestingly, both that and the Sabbatic Goat pictured above were introduced into popular culture by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_Levi that bloke (and his damn fine beard).

I was talking about this deck that was refused to be printed... not the alchemy deck

AceGambit · « **Reply #23 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:41:50 PM »

A quick search for Seal of Solomon explains why it was used on the back of the Alchemist deck. Some multiplication and division of the points represent Fire, Water, Earth, and Air. The elements of Alchemy.

Lushbob · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2012, 03:19:22 PM »

Refusing to print a deck? That's ludicrous.
I think the USPCC's just being stupid here. It's sure to raise a few heated discussions.