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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Rob Wright on June 24, 2013, 01:10:38 AM
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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/worldofcy/the-persian-empire-playing-card-deck?ref=users
Project by Cy
Website: theworldofcy.com
First created, $8,619 goal, 100% Plastic Kem Cards, Bridge size
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Oh, man. This deck has SO much potential.
If the indices were just sized down a bit and moved to the edge, and the court card artwork was enlarged, this would be phenomenal.
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I made an inquiry with the project creator. I thought it was curious that he's planning to make "Kem 100% Plastic Playing Cards" but never once mentioned USPC.
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you may want to check this little bit of info from 4PM...
The artwork is clearly compiled from various images and "photoshopped". When a person states "I spend the past year drawing & designing this custom deck of playing cards" THEN posts images of him "hand drawing" them, I would expect them to be authentic. When I first saw them I immediately thought they were photoshopped images but giving him the benefit of the doubt I continued on. First I thought how the hell did he manage to get that type of consistent detail with that type of inking pen? Then I thought, and how did he manage to make the image practically symetrical by hand? This obviously led me to spend a few minutes on google and BOOM. Source material found. I've attached his "drawing" image along with 2 images found online where you can clearly see where the photoshopped images came from.
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Haha! I was about to post the same thing, Paul! The guy has copy- pasted everything and he pretends to be drawing! This sucks.
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Before I leave my thoughts, please note that I did spend quite a bit of time looking into this project and have shared it with some artist and card enthusiast friends...we all pretty much noticed the same things...
...it's a complete disgrace to the art and playing card communities.
Problems:
-He's doing fine, detailed artwork on a pad of paper...ON CARPET???
-Hand drawing BOTH sides of the court cards???
-Using Copyrighted music in campaign video???
-No video of illustrating cards.
-$119 gets you 1 deck, 4 shirts, 2 maps and 2 bandanas??? (a Kickstarter to raise funds for playing cards...and the highest pledge tier gets you only 1 deck...incredible)
-Thanks Paul for pointing out the copy/paste technique he used to photoshop the court cards.
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So just looking at the KS page again. Several comments about photoshopping, that the cards may have already been produced(supposedly for sale on his facebook page), not Kem(USPCC), links to U.C. showing more of the lifted work- http://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php…
Wow! not sure what is true, and what is not. Seem the evidence is piling quick. This guy should take his project down, and ask KS to completely remove it. If he can't prove it is his work, looks like he will be in a whole heap of trouble.
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So just looking at the KS page again. Several comments about photoshopping, that the cards may have already been produced(supposedly for sale on his facebook page), not Kem(USPCC), links to U.C. showing more of the lifted work- http://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php…
Wow! not sure what is true, and what is not. Seem the evidence is piling quick. This guy should take his project down, and ask KS to completely remove it. If he can't prove it is his work, looks like he will be in a whole heap of trouble.
Once KS becomes aware of any kind of copyright issues, it doesn't usually take long before they start yanking pages from the search feature...
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So just looking at the KS page again. Several comments about photoshopping, that the cards may have already been produced(supposedly for sale on his facebook page), not Kem(USPCC), links to U.C. showing more of the lifted work- http://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php…
Wow! not sure what is true, and what is not. Seem the evidence is piling quick. This guy should take his project down, and ask KS to completely remove it. If he can't prove it is his work, looks like he will be in a whole heap of trouble.
Once KS becomes aware of any kind of copyright issues, it doesn't usually take long before they start yanking pages from the search feature...
I reported it early this afternoon, and I know others had said they were reporting it. I've not heard anything from KS. Not even an acknowledgement of the report.
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So just looking at the KS page again. Several comments about photoshopping, that the cards may have already been produced(supposedly for sale on his facebook page), not Kem(USPCC), links to U.C. showing more of the lifted work- http://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php…
Wow! not sure what is true, and what is not. Seem the evidence is piling quick. This guy should take his project down, and ask KS to completely remove it. If he can't prove it is his work, looks like he will be in a whole heap of trouble.
Once KS becomes aware of any kind of copyright issues, it doesn't usually take long before they start yanking pages from the search feature...
I reported it early this afternoon, and I know others had said they were reporting it. I've not heard anything from KS. Not even an acknowledgement of the report.
Same think happened with the DURAK deck, but due to the project funding seeming fraudulent, and the Steampunk Heroes deck with the custom Lego mini-figs that Lego never approved. Try finding either of them now...
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Man this Cy guy is really making me butthurt! So much rage built up reading the comments on his KS page along with all the stolen material.. The additional t'shirts on his KS page really demonstrate his actual talent (zilch). "Oh look i can use the same picture (most likely also copy pasta) and put different coloured retarded stripes!!!!!!11111 huehueheheuehehehua profitzz"
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What these guys should do, rather than ranting at a creator that's ignoring them, is put someone forward to "create" a project that completely imitates this one, down to the last detail, and shows EXACTLY where the source material comes from, which is other people's art! Make the title as close to identical as possible so you can't search for one without finding the other right next to it. Even better, undercut his prices - since he's using a cheapass printer anyway, why should you pay more? I think THAT would finally open some eyes and force this deck into obscurity and oblivion.
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copy pasta
Dude, do you know what a copy pasta is?
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/▌
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But man. It really is a low move to say you drew a photoshopped image from scratch. I would be OK if he referenced the original art for his courts, but a straight up Crtl C + Crtl V is unacceptable. It does answer the question of the shirts, though, and why they look so out of place.
This project has lost any interest it once held for me.
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copy pasta
Dude, do you know what a copy pasta is?
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/▌
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But man. It really is a low move to say you drew a photoshopped image from scratch. I would be OK if he referenced the original art for his courts, but a straight up Crtl C + Crtl V is unacceptable. It does answer the question of the shirts, though, and why they look so out of place.
This project has lost any interest it once held for me.
Haha yes! I just got into this hobby. Im mainly into bodybuilding so i know all about copy pasta posts :p (which actually shows how little i know as this plagiarised crap isn't even an example.. The phrase just came out haha).
Also, i don't understand people giving him credit saying that "if he had acknowledged his sources everything would be fine".. I don't know about you but i don't find skill in an 'artist' that compiles pictures together and calls it his own. It's like getting a picture of Mona Lisa, grayscale-ing it, sourcing mona lisa and then using it to make profit. That would be legal, and could potentially get more recognition than hand drawn artwork by other artists, but stuff like that is totally unacceptable in the world of art and is highly looked down upon.. much like how manipulating other works of art (literature for example) by plagiarising and slight paraphrasing is unacceptable. True works of art takes creativity, skill, technique, thought and inspiration.
I was originally mad.. But after seeing his shirt designs and attempt to time lapse to prove his artistic gift, i honestly kind of feel bad for the guy and wish that he would just take the project down for his own sake..
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The drawing on the carpet was hilarious. I didn't even notice until see-squared pointed it out.
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Haha yes! I just got into this hobby. Im mainly into bodybuilding so i know all about copy pasta posts :p (which actually shows how little i know as this plagiarised crap isn't even an example.. The phrase just came out haha).
Also, i don't understand people giving him credit saying that "if he had acknowledged his sources everything would be fine".. I don't know about you but i don't find skill in an 'artist' that compiles pictures together and calls it his own. It's like getting a picture of Mona Lisa, grayscale-ing it, sourcing mona lisa and then using it to make profit. That would be legal, and could potentially get more recognition than hand drawn artwork by other artists, but stuff like that is totally unacceptable in the world of art and is highly looked down upon.. much like how manipulating other works of art (literature for example) by plagiarising and slight paraphrasing is unacceptable. True works of art takes creativity, skill, technique, thought and inspiration.
I was originally mad.. But after seeing his shirt designs and attempt to time lapse to prove his artistic gift, i honestly kind of feel bad for the guy and wish that he would just take the project down for his own sake..
One could argue about collage as being "other people's work", but at least in that form of art, there's a recognition that your work was created from the work of others, plus you're putting your own twist into it to make it your art.
I feel bad for the guy, too, because I can practically guarantee that someone complaining about him on KS will report the work to USPC before he signs the contract. USPC won't print plagiarized works; you must either own the copyright or be licensed to use it for the purpose of creating playing cards.
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I feel bad for the guy, too, because I can practically guarantee that someone complaining about him on KS will report the work to USPC before he signs the contract. USPC won't print plagiarized works; you must either own the copyright or be licensed to use it for the purpose of creating playing cards.
He's not using USPCC, and some suspect the cards have already been made.
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I feel bad for the guy, too, because I can practically guarantee that someone complaining about him on KS will report the work to USPC before he signs the contract. USPC won't print plagiarized works; you must either own the copyright or be licensed to use it for the purpose of creating playing cards.
He's not using USPCC, and some suspect the cards have already been made.
Well, in that case, he's almost certainly gone with a Chinese printer. Many Chinese firms are much less scrupulous about such issues... No offense to Chinese companies, because I know there are some there that do follow the rules when it comes to such things.
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To be honest.. i have to say that despite the fact that i dislike him as a general lying human being as well as his lack of personal interpretation as an artist, the final product -especially on the court cards- is actually quite appealing! Imagine how awesome this would be if the artwork was actually entirely illustrated by him! With small modifications such as moving the poker pips outwards a little and increasing the size of the court faces, (accompanied with printing with USPC) this deck would definitely get a lot recognition and hype! Still wouldn't be my cuppatee, but it would definitely have big selling points for the general community.
Goes to show that we don't live in a perfect world. What a shame.
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Imagine how awesome this would be if the artwork was actually entirely illustrated by him!
If he could do that, he would have done it!
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Funding was canceled by the creator a few hours ago. Unfortunately he promises a re-launch.
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Funding was canceled by the creator a few hours ago. Unfortunately he promises a re-launch.
Of course he canceled - he was twelve hundred short and the deadline was yesterday (it's after midnight here). Some people think that canceling is somehow better than letting their project end unsuccessfully - those people forget that cancellations remain on the site as well and still get kicked out in keyword searches unless they were shut down by KS. To me, it shows you lacked the fortitude to ride it out to the end, which makes one question the dedication the creator has to the project.
And that constant barrage from all his detractors probably didn't help - which was a good thing, in my opinion. If you're tracing/scanning your artwork, at the least one should own up to it and give props to the people who originally made the art it's based on. Unless, of course, the art is copyrighted/trademarked, in which case, you'd be an idiot to try in the first place.
Just another fool with more dollar signs in his eyes than talent in his hands.
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More than true, Don!
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More than true, Don!
I read the comments - it seems that one of his backers also pointed out to him that if he went forward with the printer he planned to use and the prices he was charging, he would have LOST money even if he did hit the goal! He failed to factor in enough cash to cover shipping and was just barely over the break-even point on the decks...
I almost wish it went through, just so we could see him fall flat on his face...
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I almost wish it went through, just so we could see him fall flat on his face...
I think his main goal was just to take the money and run. The biggest problem with that guy is that he is a LIAR! The good thing is that just as in designing, he is unprofessional in lying, too!
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I read the comments - it seems that one of his backers also pointed out to him that if he went forward with the printer he planned to use and the prices he was charging, he would have LOST money even if he did hit the goal! He failed to factor in enough cash to cover shipping and was just barely over the break-even point on the decks...
I think he used this as an excuse to get away from the mess. A lot of shady stuff going on. His backer list had quite a few new backers, which most people thought was CY making multiple accounts. If you look at the kicktraq numbers. Something didn't look right to me. In my opinion, I think he added several accounts to inflate his numbers. Was hoping people would jump on to get it funded. Then he could pull his pledges at the end.
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I read the comments - it seems that one of his backers also pointed out to him that if he went forward with the printer he planned to use and the prices he was charging, he would have LOST money even if he did hit the goal! He failed to factor in enough cash to cover shipping and was just barely over the break-even point on the decks...
I think he used this as an excuse to get away from the mess. A lot of shady stuff going on. His backer list had quite a few new backers, which most people thought was CY making multiple accounts. If you look at the kicktraq numbers. Something didn't look right to me. In my opinion, I think he added several accounts to inflate his numbers. Was hoping people would jump on to get it funded. Then he could pull his pledges at the end.
The more likely plan for such scams is to place the false backing, wait for more funds to come in, leave it in place, pay the pledges you made while receiving the pledges from others, then walk away with the cash and say buh-bye. If he pulled the pledges last-minute, it not only looks fishy but can leave him without enough to reach the goal, leaving him with nothing. But in this case, it appears that the extra backers never came. Or, and I consider this more likely, he created a few false accounts with $1 pledges in order to post positive comments as false backers, trying to shake the negative image his campaign ended up with. It may be legit that he was getting more backing, since many projects do build up a head of steam towards the end. But once his poor math was pointed out to him, I think he realized that it was too late in the game to do anything about fixing his falling house of cards.
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I don't know if he had any real devious intents, I think he saw an opportunity to reuse some art from old books and thought it'd make a good deck. His mistake was not just saying that. No one would think him bad for doing so, there is a wealth of lost art that should be refreshed, especially if you can clean it up and provide some depth. I'd love to have a Alphonse Mucha deck but I'd never attempt to copy his work and pass it off as my own. Instead, i'll just create a deck using the Liberty art style that Mucha used and create my own images.
So who knows what this guy was going to do, but my guess is that it probably wasn't so sinister. He probably just grew more and more embarassed at the situation and decided to distance himself from it. As his icon is a picture of himself meditating, my guess is that the negative energy was affecting him.
As for creating fake accounts, we'll never know. But I did see one guy with 14 pledges have "someone" pledge $3,000 to boost his rating. Needless to say, he only got a couple of more pledges and didn't succeed. In his case, I felt more deceived.
There, done being the attorney for the defendant. :)
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I don't know if he had any real devious intents, I think he saw an opportunity to reuse some art from old books and thought it'd make a good deck. His mistake was not just saying that. No one would think him bad for doing so, there is a wealth of lost art that should be refreshed, especially if you can clean it up and provide some depth. I'd love to have a Alphonse Mucha deck but I'd never attempt to copy his work and pass it off as my own. Instead, i'll just create a deck using the Liberty art style that Mucha used and create my own images.
So who knows what this guy was going to do, but my guess is that it probably wasn't so sinister. He probably just grew more and more embarassed at the situation and decided to distance himself from it. As his icon is a picture of himself meditating, my guess is that the negative energy was affecting him.
As for creating fake accounts, we'll never know. But I did see one guy with 14 pledges have "someone" pledge $3,000 to boost his rating. Needless to say, he only got a couple of more pledges and didn't succeed. In his case, I felt more deceived.
There, done being the attorney for the defendant. :)
If his intent wasn't to deceive, he would not have made an attempt to "draw" his Ace of Spades in a time-released video where he proceeds to TRACE the design from another image beneath the paper, then ink it in. I've never seen a designer create unique designs using TRACING PAPER. The funding stuff is another issue, but yes, he attempted to deceive people about his work's originality and even after being caught continued in his deception rather than owning up to what his work really was.
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I just never like to think bad of people, and I have seen some designers use tracing paper over sketches when going to final ink and for free hand illustrators is not really unusual. In fact I have some sketches ready for inkwork on my desk. Once I approve them I suspect the artist will throw tracing paper over it and begin inking. I didn't really read through all the accusations and denials. I did glean from it that he didn't own up to reusing vintage illustrations. I'd like to see what his relaunch looks like, if he has one.
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I just never like to think bad of people, and I have seen some designers use tracing paper over sketches when going to final ink and for free hand illustrators is not really unusual. In fact I have some sketches ready for inkwork on my desk. Once I approve them I suspect the artist will throw tracing paper over it and begin inking. I didn't really read through all the accusations and denials. I did glean from it that he didn't own up to reusing vintage illustrations. I'd like to see what his relaunch looks like, if he has one.
In this case, the tracing is him copying a pre-existing design that he didn't create, and to this day doesn't own up to the fact that it wasn't his art. To me, that's pretty "sketchy"...
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I just never like to think bad of people, and I have seen some designers use tracing paper over sketches when going to final ink and for free hand illustrators is not really unusual. In fact I have some sketches ready for inkwork on my desk. Once I approve them I suspect the artist will throw tracing paper over it and begin inking. I didn't really read through all the accusations and denials. I did glean from it that he didn't own up to reusing vintage illustrations. I'd like to see what his relaunch looks like, if he has one.
In this case, the tracing is him copying a pre-existing design that he didn't create, and to this day doesn't own up to the fact that it wasn't his art. To me, that's pretty "sketchy"...
You have to admit, he's got some really good tracing skills! I've tried tracing in one of my many art classes and it's not as easy as it looks. Then again, i still color outside the lines. :P
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I still doubt he traced the final court cards, he had to be using photoshop and or some graphics software. If he had just owned up to it and if he had said they were printed by USPCC - and had a higher goal - I don't think anyone would have complained and he would have hit his goal. Of course I am speculating at this point. I do not have any true read on the thoughts of CY, I am not a mind reader. ???
I didn't feel any purposeful deception on his part, in the end I think he wasn't clear in his write up and didn't do his homework in advance - but then after being called on it - he was backed into a corner and never apologized, or showed an ounce of humility.
What do they say? Honesty is the best.... something something? I forget.
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What do they say? Honesty is the best.... something something? I forget.
"Honesty is best served with tea and honey." ... no wait that was cookies. Honesty had to do policies, ah, I remember now. "I didn't do it" ~ Richard Nixon and later Bill Clinton and sometime in the future all the presidents after Clinton.
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We've all seen project creators who go in with the best of intentions ... and then something bad happens and they disappear. At that point, the only thing that carries the project is the creator's own personal integrity ... well, or the integrity of others around the creator who can apply some much-needed pressure.
Imagine for a moment that this guy runs into the slightest bit of trouble (say for example, his cost estimates turned out to be wrong).
Do you have confidence in his personal integrity?
None. Nothing. Not an ounce. And just the opposite--I have confidence that he *won't* apply any personal integrity.
This is every KS project that failed and went bad, but this time the red flags were raised *before* the project got funded. And you got a chance to see how the project creator acts under stress.
It's a shame, because the *concept* was good.
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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/worldofcy/the-persian-empire-a-new-bicycle-playing-card-deck?ref=users
and it's back.
Now Bicycle branded, still saying spent a year designing ::)
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technically a graphic artist could say he "designed" the deck - we don't know that that isn't true. At least this time he didn't say he drew it.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/797/353/ae73f4bce102b359c18ba8ff457cc32f_large.jpg?1375418783)
I would get it, if he wasn't a liar - ah well
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technically a graphic artist could say he "designed" the deck - we don't know that that isn't true. At least this time he didn't say he drew it.
I would get it, if he wasn't a liar - ah well
And this goofball is charging $9 - for a frickin' Ace of Spades signed by him! Look at the early birds - $11 for a deck, but $20 if you also want the autograph. Is this guy stoned, or just stupid? Anyone backing him is a fool about to be parted from his or her money.
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technically a graphic artist could say he "designed" the deck - we don't know that that isn't true. At least this time he didn't say he drew it.
I would get it, if he wasn't a liar - ah well
And this goofball is charging $9 - for a frickin' Ace of Spades signed by him! Look at the early birds - $11 for a deck, but $20 if you also want the autograph. Is this guy stoned, or just stupid? Anyone backing him is a fool about to be parted from his or her money.
He has 234 backers with 38 days to go, I'd say there are a lot of fools ready to seprarate with some cash. I do like the design a lot, even if the images are tracings of older reference art sources. I think I can trust that he'd produce them as he is catering to his own community and has a lot of support from family and friends. I'll star the project and see how it goes.
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He has 234 backers with 38 days to go, I'd say there are a lot of fools ready to seprarate with some cash. I do like the design a lot, even if the images are tracings of older reference art sources. I think I can trust that he'd produce them as he is catering to his own community and has a lot of support from family and friends. I'll star the project and see how it goes.
Anyone who lies about his project the way this guy has lied about his is definitely not worth so much as one of my dollars.
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He has 234 backers with 38 days to go, I'd say there are a lot of fools ready to seprarate with some cash. I do like the design a lot, even if the images are tracings of older reference art sources. I think I can trust that he'd produce them as he is catering to his own community and has a lot of support from family and friends. I'll star the project and see how it goes.
Anyone who lies about his project the way this guy has lied about his is definitely not worth so much as one of my dollars.
Don't you have one of those magic disappearing dollars? Sorry, I just watched Burt Wonderstone and now i know everything about magic. :P
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When this first came out, I did like it. The short of it is. This guy is a liar and thief. Supporting him would be no different than buying a TV from a car trunk sale. No way in hell would I back this project.
edit- checked on project after posting. pretty surprised at update. Still not backing.
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The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/
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The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/
Be sad. This guy is such a bullshitter.
He put Magic Finish down as a stretch goal at $17,500. Magic Finish is STANDARD with ALL CUSTOM DECKS. You actually have to make a request to NOT have Magic Finish.
I wouldn't trust him to deliver a supermarket circular, never mind a deck.
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The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/
KS fraud is nothing new, and fairly easy to do. There was another project with a laughably low goal and it barely met half of that goal when it maxed out. It remained that way until a few days before the end of the funding period, at which point it got one single pledge worth over $3k and got funded.
I thought it was hilarious, since it was so obviously fraud, but not in the legal sense since there is nothing stopping anyone from making another account and dropping dough on their own project.
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The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/
KS fraud is nothing new, and fairly easy to do. There was another project with a laughably low goal and it barely met half of that goal when it maxed out. It remained that way until a few days before the end of the funding period, at which point it got one single pledge worth over $3k and got funded.
I thought it was hilarious, since it was so obviously fraud, but not in the legal sense since there is nothing stopping anyone from making another account and dropping dough on their own project.
I'm by no means an expert on KS policy at all but I have heard that backing your own project was against their rules. I'm sure it could be made "illegal." Then again, maybe not :))
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The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/
KS fraud is nothing new, and fairly easy to do. There was another project with a laughably low goal and it barely met half of that goal when it maxed out. It remained that way until a few days before the end of the funding period, at which point it got one single pledge worth over $3k and got funded.
I thought it was hilarious, since it was so obviously fraud, but not in the legal sense since there is nothing stopping anyone from making another account and dropping dough on their own project.
I'm by no means an expert on KS policy at all but I have heard that backing your own project was against their rules. I'm sure it could be made "illegal." Then again, maybe not :))
It is a TOS violation - and one of the reasons the DURAK deck was shut down after hitting the funding threshold. Funding your own project can also be construed as fraud, which is a crime. The problem is building the case for it - KS generally tells people who were scammed to go to the authorities, then does nothing. If enough complaints came up, it could become a Federal matter, especially since most of the funding comes from outside of New York State, where KS is located. Proving fraud isn't easy, because of how loosely the TOS is worded.
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The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/
KS fraud is nothing new, and fairly easy to do. There was another project with a laughably low goal and it barely met half of that goal when it maxed out. It remained that way until a few days before the end of the funding period, at which point it got one single pledge worth over $3k and got funded.
I thought it was hilarious, since it was so obviously fraud, but not in the legal sense since there is nothing stopping anyone from making another account and dropping dough on their own project.
I'm by no means an expert on KS policy at all but I have heard that backing your own project was against their rules. I'm sure it could be made "illegal." Then again, maybe not :))
It is a TOS violation - and one of the reasons the DURAK deck was shut down after hitting the funding threshold. Funding your own project can also be construed as fraud, which is a crime. The problem is building the case for it - KS generally tells people who were scammed to go to the authorities, then does nothing. If enough complaints came up, it could become a Federal matter, especially since most of the funding comes from outside of New York State, where KS is located. Proving fraud isn't easy, because of how loosely the TOS is worded.
And that's the most disappointing thing about Kickstarter in my opinion. They have a great platform for innovators and designers but fraud it tough on backers. I know we mentioned it before sometime in the past but it's kind of like the early stages of eBay. Great platform but became known for scams cause they had no good security for customers. Obviously if they fix that these fraudulent projects disappear.
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Not that I trust this guy one bit, but to be fair he was gaining all most every day, and had 13 new backers and gained almost $800 in the last 24 hours. I guess we all will know for sure come December.
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Well crap
I suppose every noob makes mistakes, and let it be known throughout, this might have been my first one. I back this campaign, and was watching it right down to it's close. And indeed, there were no new backers in the last hour, but in the last 30 seconds, someone pledged just over $600. An existing "backer". Needless to say, I thought it was a tad fishy. Had I seen this thread, or even bothered to check his history, I would have steered clear.
He's had one small update since it's close, where other projects I've seen have rolled out regular updates even after the funding has closed. Guess we will see how this shakes down. Regardless, lesson learned.
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Well crap
I suppose every noob makes mistakes, and let it be known throughout, this might have been my first one. I back this campaign, and was watching it right down to it's close. And indeed, there were no new backers in the last hour, but in the last 30 seconds, someone pledged just over $600. An existing "backer". Needless to say, I thought it was a tad fishy. Had I seen this thread, or even bothered to check his history, I would have steered clear.
He's had one small update since it's close, where other projects I've seen have rolled out regular updates even after the funding has closed. Guess we will see how this shakes down. Regardless, lesson learned.
It appears that he designed this deck around his products made under the company name Persian Apparel. A few of the art images on the cards are on the clothes. However, as I just checked, he's changed the website and indicates that the entire company is now for sale. I get the feeling this doesn't bode well for people waiting on these decks...
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That's kind of a red flag. If this indeed is going where it looks, then that last donation makes sender. Not a bad investment, pledge $600 of your own to make $11k. Maybe against all odds we will see a deck instead of tire tracks.
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That's kind of a red flag. If this indeed is going where it looks, then that last donation makes sender. Not a bad investment, pledge $600 of your own to make $11k. Maybe against all odds we will see a deck instead of tire tracks.
I don't think there's a strong indication of a scam as of now. If you browse through the previous pages you'll know that i absolutely despise Cy.. But from what i can see with the updates, it looks normal, as of now. Be patient and wait it out. There's a certain period of time (a few months i think) in which you'll be able to raise a dispute via Amazon/Your credit card company to get a full refund. Don't be so quick to come to a conclusion as this may cause a flurry of panic among the other backers and shit'll take off before you know it.
I really hope everything turns out well for you and the other backers' sake! (:
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That's kind of a red flag. If this indeed is going where it looks, then that last donation makes sender. Not a bad investment, pledge $600 of your own to make $11k. Maybe against all odds we will see a deck instead of tire tracks.
I don't think there's a strong indication of a scam as of now. If you browse through the previous pages you'll know that i absolutely despise Cy.. But from what i can see with the updates, it looks normal, as of now. Be patient and wait it out. There's a certain period of time (a few months i think) in which you'll be able to raise a dispute via Amazon/Your credit card company to get a full refund. Don't be so quick to come to a conclusion as this may cause a flurry of panic among the other backers and shit'll take off before you know it.
I really hope everything turns out well for you and the other backers' sake! (:
That's why I've kept my thoughts here. I tend to have faith in people to a fault, so until I see a postcard in the mail with his mug on it smiling on a Hawaiian beach will I finally be like "Bad man, man bad!".
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That's why I've kept my thoughts here. I tend to have faith in people to a fault, so until I see a postcard in the mail with his mug on it smiling on a Hawaiian beach will I finally be like "Bad man, man bad!".
Don't give him ideas! =p
I'm not sure if you can be bothered to see the comments in his previous failed attempt at kickstarting this deck.. but if you follow everything through + the comments on this thread you'll realise how far he is willing to go to hide a lie. Without hesitation, he consistently attempts to cover up his tracks with more lies. It's actually quite an amusing read in hindsight. I don't care how much people 'change' after such deceitful acts. If they were once willing to lie about something, there is nothing stopping them to do it again. Especially when $13,000 is up for grabs.
Cy has lost a lot of people's trust on here and UC regardless of how this unfolds. I'm sure some of us secretly, deep down, wish it did indeed turn out to be a scam just so we could say "we told you so, bitch." =p Evil, I know! Haha. I honestly hope everything turns out to be okay for your sake.
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Holy crap! I know this is a dead thread, but I wished I would have read this sooner. Best thread I've read yet. You guys can really spot a shady deal. I do, however; like his Kickstarer video. It gives me some ideas. I wonder if this is going to be on Don's successful Kickstarter, but never delivered list...
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I won't be too heart broken if this plays out according to the way he's conducted himself, I didn't pledge a lot. And I had read through his past projects comments section, wow, that was a fun read! And it sounds like I've only tread upon the tip of the iceberg between this thread and the comments.
Sprouts, yeah it was like a couple days after I pledged when I found this thread. Talk about a palm to the forehead. Regardless of the odds, maybe he will deliver though. i probably won't hold my breath though....
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I won't be too heart broken if this plays out according to the way he's conducted himself, I didn't pledge a lot. And I had read through his past projects comments section, wow, that was a fun read! And it sounds like I've only tread upon the tip of the iceberg between this thread and the comments.
Sprouts, yeah it was like a couple days after I pledged when I found this thread. Talk about a palm to the forehead. Regardless of the odds, maybe he will deliver though. i probably won't hold my breath though....
Did you get your deck?
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He did deliver the goods last time now we have to hope he delivers on the royal edition project!
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He did deliver the goods last time now we have to hope he delivers on the royal edition project!
Perhaps you'd care to write a review for us in the Deck Reviews board?
I remember the hassles this guy was getting in regard to using "recycled" artwork and trying to claim it as his own, even to the point of tracing the Ace of Spades and calling it "drawing". To me, when an "artist" is trying to commit plagiarism, it's a red flag to stay away, regardless of how good the work is. Ironically, if he'd just been honest in his intentions from the beginning, he would not have had any problems with the "natives" getting restless. Nothing good ever comes from flat-out, bald-faced lies.
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Looks like you can purchase the deck through his website linked in the Kickstarter. In case anyone feels ballsy. ;D
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He did deliver the goods last time now we have to hope he delivers on the royal edition project!
Perhaps you'd care to write a review for us in the Deck Reviews board?
I know you were not adressing to me Don, but I'll post my brief review (made 3 months ago) on the Deck Review Board. And if someone could help me with the stock used, I would be very grateful.