Alice of Wonderland Steampunk Playing Cards

[Sketch2Draw]

I'm creating my first deck of custom playing cards that are themed Steampunk Wonderland, which is part of a larger project to create an entire world surrounding Alice's new adventures (inspired by the original work of Lewis Carroll's Wonderland). The card project was solely inspired by my drawings and sketches of Wonderland, and for some reason I just liked doing them. You can view my Wonderland website here:

http://aliceofwonderland.com/

Here is a card design of the Queen of Hearts, which I am in the process of modifying it a bit.

[Rob Wright]

Looks like it could be a cool project. Hopefully you have gotten permission to use copyrighted material. If you haven't, I suggest you read through this post.

http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/new-deck-next-deck-from-circle-city-cards/msg56013/#msg56013

I would also check out the project on KS

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onefreehour/bicycle-army-men-playing-cards-deck?ref=live

From my understanding, on the ARMY Men project. the creator was sent cease and desist letters from the makers of plastic army men. tried to get an approval, but could not.

[Don Boyer]

Looks like it could be a cool project. Hopefully you have gotten permission to use copyrighted material. If you haven't, I suggest you read through this post.

http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/new-deck-next-deck-from-circle-city-cards/msg56013/#msg56013

I would also check out the project on KS

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onefreehour/bicycle-army-men-playing-cards-deck?ref=live

From my understanding, on the ARMY Men project. the creator was sent cease and desist letters from the makers of plastic army men. tried to get an approval, but could not.

No need to fear, Rob.  The work is over a hundred years old and is in the public domain, even with current (highly restrictive) American copyright laws.  If you can download it from Project Gutenburg (and yes, you can), it's public domain.  He just has to be careful not to borrow any direct imagery from any other more recent adaptations in movies, television, stage, etc.  The original work, including the original illustrations, are public domain, but "Disney's Alice in Wonderland" or the SyFy Channel's "Alice" won't be for many, many years yet...

I'm pasting in a quote from a comment Alex made about your deck in your Introduce Yourself topic:

Your design is... wow.

It's just beautiful.

My only suggestion is a practical one. Copy the index formatting of a standard Bicycle deck (smaller "Q" in the distant top left and bottom right corners, small pip underneath it, then a larger pip next to the face of the court card).

This would turn that absolutely sexy design into one people would be eager to use for Poker, magic, etc.

Can't wait to see your back design.

You're right if he wants to stick to a 100% traditional Anglo-Rouen design.  But one can take small liberties, if there's a good reason for it.  The indices as they are now would be roughly equal to a USPC standard jumbo-sized index, and being as large as they are, the extra pips are not really necessary because it would take away room for his artwork.

If he wants his deck to conform completely to the traditional/USPC model, that's fine - but the more interesting decks out there today take varying amounts of artistic license and look mighty fine compared to the USPC standard.

As far as poker is concerned - if you're talking a young beer-and-pretzels crowd, they'll play with whatever apeals to them.  If you're talking dyed-in-the-wool hardcore players (pro or amateur), they're unlikely to stray far from completely standard design in any way, meaning an "Alice in Wonderland" deck with a dash of steampunk would be too alien a concept to them to want to play with.

Magicians - they use what they want.  Some dig the custom designs, some go for a more traditional look for added familiarity.  Either way, it depends much more on the audience being performed for.  Just as a pack of Bicycles would look pretty boring in a techno-goth nightclub, a pack of Karnival Dose would be totally out of place at a church social.  I could easily picture this deck appealing to a young hipster crowd for the steampunk elements, but also to a "young readers" day at the school or public library and many other possible settings - the Alice theme is well known and largely liked.

But hey, that's just me, and now I'm starting to ramble, so I'm gonna wrap things up here...

[Alex Willis]

I gave my input on your introduction, but i do have a question about the design.  Will the courts be full color or as presented?  I love the aesthetic of this.  Remember, if you want this to be a Poker deck there are some standards to image facing (one-eyed Jacks and all).

[MrMollusk]

Whoof. Another steampunk deck.

I can see why you'd think that steampunk + Alice in Wonderland would be a cool fusion, but the steampunk genre has kind of been beaten to death. There's been way too many. Personally, I tend to glaze over steampunk decks, unless they're knock-out-of-the-park awesome. Like Lance Miller's deck.

Which brings me to my next point.

The art is GOOD. That queen definitely has some neat personality, and I love the way you mirrored it without smacking the queen torso to torso. The placement is cool, and the background is interesting. In short, it doesn't need the steampunk label. I would have never guessed it's steampunk unless I was told. It does have kind of a Victorian era feel, though, which is a refreshing respite from all these modern decks. I think that it's fine as just an Alice deck. In fact, it feels better that way. That's just my opinion, though.

Also, I think it would look a lot better if you reduced the Q♥'s size a bit. It would give more room for the art. And as it is, I feel like the large pip also kind of overpowers the queen. It moves the eye away from the art.

[Sketch2Draw]

Thanks again for the great feedback! I modified the pip and Q to be smaller now, but there wasn't room for a larger pip without changing the art. I want to keep the design very close to the Anglo-Rouen design as I want these cards to be used in games, as well as collecting.

I appreciate your comments!

[Don Boyer]

Thanks again for the great feedback! I modified the pip and Q to be smaller now, but there wasn't room for a larger pip without changing the art. I want to keep the design very close to the Anglo-Rouen design as I want these cards to be used in games, as well as collecting.

I appreciate your comments!

Call me crazy, but the negative space is nice!

But to be traditional, you have to put a heart in there, approximately as tall as the index or slightly less.  I think it could fit, but if people thought the large indices were taking the eye from the art, I think the large pip plus index would be even more distracting.

I understand the importance of traditional elements, but don't be a total slave to convention.  Get the one-eyed Jacks, the suicide King, the bedpost Queen, etc., but don't sweat the rest too hard.

[sprouts1115]

His Squeezers are fine.  Half in and Half out on the dotted line works for USPCC.   He is just making room for his cheshire cat.  2 elements.  Opps! did I tell a secret.....

[Don Boyer]

His Squeezers are fine.  Half in and Half out on the dotted line works for USPCC.   He is just making room for his cheshire cat.  2 elements.  Opps! did I tell a secret.....

Y'know, I didn't think it was possible, but you're actually making LESS sense than usual...

His "Squeezers"?  Do you understand what Squeezers are?  Y'know what - don't answer that; I already know.

No, the Cheshire smile in the background is not a secret...

[Sketch2Draw]

I have been getting very positive feedback on the QH design, that I am keeping the Queen of Hearts as is, and the rest will follow.

Here's the design for the Ace of Spades. All of my Ace cards will have that background design.

To share a little more about my concept for this deck, I am tying it into a story where each card is a character, and the court cards represent the current royals of that kingdom. I am drawing inspiration from many sources, but to me it just makes sense to include the entire  deck of cards to represent the 4 major kingdoms in the Wonderland I am creating.

[MrMollusk]

Thanks again for the great feedback! I modified the pip and Q to be smaller now, but there wasn't room for a larger pip without changing the art. I want to keep the design very close to the Anglo-Rouen design as I want these cards to be used in games, as well as collecting.

I appreciate your comments!

Ooooooh. I agree with Don. The card doesn't seem so crowded now.
And if you want the cards to be used in games, the smaller pip is definitely the way to go. That way players can just tilt the corner of the card to read it in, say, a poker game. But if you do think that the card is too vacuous now, you could always add some small curls of smoke around the index. I think what you have is pretty neat though. The decreased size also emphasizes the small customization to the index.

His Squeezers are fine.  Half in and Half out on the dotted line works for USPCC.   He is just making room for his cheshire cat.  2 elements.  Opps! did I tell a secret.....

His "Squeezers"?  Do you understand what Squeezers are?  Y'know what - don't answer that; I already know.

  ?

Dem squeezers 

[Collector]

Hi Rob,

I am glad that you decided to use "power of the forum". As you can see you are able to get more different points of view.

The Queen of Hearts has too much empty space with smaller pips. The Ace of Spades can have more elements of design in accordance with American traditions.

[Don Boyer]

Ooooooh. I agree with Don. The card doesn't seem so crowded now.
And if you want the cards to be used in games, the smaller pip is definitely the way to go. That way players can just tilt the corner of the card to read it in, say, a poker game. But if you do think that the card is too vacuous now, you could always add some small curls of smoke around the index. I think what you have is pretty neat though. The decreased size also emphasizes the small customization to the index.

Well, the larger indices serve a purpose as well.  For example, Texas Hold 'Em players are generally at cross purposes when it comes to their cards.  They want a small (but readable) index, so as to not reveal their cards to the opposing players, but they also want a jumbo index, making the community cards easily read at a distance.  Many home players (especially ones with older eyeballs) will often settle for the jumbo indices.

Then there's people who are exceptionally vision-impaired...


...or just plain blind...

His Squeezers are fine.  Half in and Half out on the dotted line works for USPCC.   He is just making room for his cheshire cat.  2 elements.  Opps! did I tell a secret.....

His "Squeezers"?  Do you understand what Squeezers are?  Y'know what - don't answer that; I already know.

  ?

Dem squeezers 

 

But to rein this back in, yes, jumbo indices while not common in custom decks, do serve a place in the playing card world.  But like I said, I'm actually liking the negative space created with the gap left by reducing the index size.  There is no rule that states every square millimeter of a custom card's surface has to be covered with something, and it really lets the art shine a bit more than before.

[Sketch2Draw]

Here's the first version of the back design. I'm about to contact the USPCC to get their approval on my designs.

I'm going to create 4 joker cards (or wild cards) to make a 54 deck (will need to get approval from the USPCC again), as I want to include Alice, the Hatter, Cheshire Cat, and White Rabbit on these cards.

*Correction - 56 cards. I couldn't count that day for some reason!

[Don Boyer]

Here's the first version of the back design. I'm about to contact the USPCC to get their approval on my designs.

I'm going to create 4 joker cards (or wild cards) to make a 54 deck (will need to get approval from the USPCC again), as I want to include Alice, the Hatter, Cheshire Cat, and White Rabbit on these cards.

First, four jokers would bring your total number of cards (minus advertising) to 56, not 54.  That number is the ceiling on the amount of cards you can have in a USPC deck.  I don't think USPC need to give you approval on that, per se - those four extra cards are yours to create as you wish, and you're under no obligation to create ads or gaff cards with them.  USPC themselves print a deck, the Aladdin brand, that has four jokers with no ads or gaffs (though some would call the extra jokers gaffs themselves)!  Mind you, I'm not talking about the new "white" version from the Blue Crown, but the original red and blue decks - they're very uncommon here, being targeted for the Singapore market, where I'm told they're more common than Bicycle decks.

Second, I like the back, but you can leave out the word "Wonderland" - it seems incongruous to have it there.  And rather than creating traditional zeppelins, I'd make something that was more of a fusion of the original hot-air balloon from the story with a few steampunk add-ons, like perhaps wings/arms and directional fans for thrust or something, and maybe even an anchor hanging out of the basket.  It would allow you a greater amount of faithfulness to the story while at the same time conveying the steampunk aesthetic you're after - while a zeppelin moves like a whale, this would move more like a slow helicopter due to its smaller profile.

[Sketch2Draw]

I have to agree about the zeppelin style of balloon. I do have various models that fly in my vision of Wonderland, and I can include those as other ships for the purpose of the story. For the card deck, I like the traditional round balloon. Here's a revised version.

I also made another alternative with the full title, "Alice of Wonderland", instead of just Wonderland, and reflects the name of my storyline and website. I'm going to think about this for a bit longer.

[sprouts1115]

Sketch2Draw - As always, Don is right.  If you leave only the squeezers, It's hard for Texas Hold'em ppl to know what the suit is.  Maybe if you did it like this guy or made the 2nd element "The Cheshire Cat" into a heart.  That would help ppl distinguish the suit at a distance.  http://www.wopc.co.uk/delarue/pigmy.html

A lot of ppl say no text on the back, but I'm still still up in the air on this. If you look at the past....

[Don Boyer]

Sketch2Draw - As always, Don is right.  If you leave only the squeezers, It's hard for Texas Hold'em ppl to know what the suit is.  Maybe if you did it like this guy or made the 2nd element "The Cheshire Cat" into a heart.  That would help ppl distinguish the suit at a distance.  http://www.wopc.co.uk/delarue/pigmy.html

A lot of ppl say no text on the back, but I'm still still up in the air on this. If you look at the past....

"Squeezers" are a brand for playing cards that have been used over the years by a handful of companies dating from the late-19th century and the creation of indices on playing cards.  At this point, most if not all of those companies are now either defunct or have been absorbed by USPC into their collective.

You're confusing the term with "indices", or if you prefer the more modern version of the word, which used to be considered a misspelling, "indexes".  Both are currently considered correct, with "indices" being the preferred plural noun form in discussions of finance, mathematics and science (or anything British).

[Bill Collins]

My 2cents for what it's worth, I love this deck and can't wait to get my hands on it.

[Don Boyer]

I also made another alternative with the full title, "Alice of Wonderland", instead of just Wonderland, and reflects the name of my storyline and website. I'm going to think about this for a bit longer.

In regards to the title - you should do some careful research.  While "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" is public domain, someone over the intervening years may have snagged "Alice of Wonderland" already.  In fact, I do believe it has been, for a 1966 animated feature: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_of_Wonderland_in_Paris

The film in question is actually a modification of five "Madeline" short films into one larger film, with the "Alice" character being used to tie them together via some additional footage.  But because the lead character is "Alice of Wonderland", they could consider your title actionable.  Perhaps something like "Alice's Adventures in Steampunk Wonderland" or simply "Steampunk Alice" would be better - but research those as well!

Insure that your art ties in the steampunk elements rather than existing as something you just attached to the images - slapping a few gears on something and calling it "steampunk" won't really cut it with the collector crowd these days; too many prior decks did just that and some were met with derision.  Depending on how labor-intensive you wish to get, you could depict scenes from the original book with a steampunk flair on the spot cards.  You could even get really into it by quoting from the book for the image captions, but replacing some of the terms with the appropriate steampunk equivalents.

[MrMollusk]

I have to agree about the zeppelin style of balloon. I do have various models that fly in my vision of Wonderland, and I can include those as other ships for the purpose of the story. For the card deck, I like the traditional round balloon. Here's a revised version.

I also made another alternative with the full title, "Alice of Wonderland", instead of just Wonderland, and reflects the name of my storyline and website. I'm going to think about this for a bit longer.

I like your textless version better than the one with text.

But I also like the zeppelin design in your previous one better. This version looks kinda lumpy and off. Have you tried a more traditional style of balloon?



You could slant it, like it's swaying in the wind. I think it would also add a good sense of motion.

In addition, I feel like there's something missing from the center. A small, dark-colored crest could even out the design and balance the negative space.

But yeah, you really don't need the text. I think that text on the back of cards looks tacky in most cases. It works better textless.

Awesome job so far!

[Don Boyer]

..and this is why I was never a fan of using links to images elsewhere rather than actual uploaded images...

Consider that his balloons may have looked "lumpy" because of little additions to them that non-steampunk balloons are unlikely to have, like wings, motors, propellers, etc.  It's difficult to convey that sort of stuff accurately in silhouette.

[MrMollusk]

..and this is why I was never a fan of using links to images elsewhere rather than actual uploaded images...

Consider that his balloons may have looked "lumpy" because of little additions to them that non-steampunk balloons are unlikely to have, like wings, motors, propellers, etc.  It's difficult to convey that sort of stuff accurately in silhouette.

FFFFFFF. I fixed it.

But it was more of the body of the balloon. The wings and gears were a nice touch, but it looked almost as if a cloud had been rigged to a bunch of machinery.

[Alex Willis]

..and this is why I was never a fan of using links to images elsewhere rather than actual uploaded images...

Consider that his balloons may have looked "lumpy" because of little additions to them that non-steampunk balloons are unlikely to have, like wings, motors, propellers, etc.  It's difficult to convey that sort of stuff accurately in silhouette.

FFFFFFF. I fixed it.

But it was more of the body of the balloon. The wings and gears were a nice touch, but it looked almost as if a cloud had been rigged to a bunch of machinery.

I liked the gear.

[Lucky Card Company]

So just a personal comment, I don't know what your final name for the project might be but  I think Alice in Wonderland Steampunk  Playing cards is quite long.

Why not just  go for something like Alice in Steampunkland its much shorter and I think looks more original, as there are other Alice in wonderland decks.

Best Regards,
Martin S.
Lucky Card Company, Inc.

[Alex Willis]

So just a personal comment, I don't know what your final name for the project might be but  I think Alice in Wonderland Steampunk  Playing cards is quite long.

Why not just  go for something like Alice in Steampunkland its much shorter and I think looks more original, as there are other Alice in wonderland decks.

Best Regards,
Martin S.
Lucky Card Company, Inc.

Or

Alice Deck
Wonderfilledland
Wonderful Alice
Drink Me Eat Me
Tweedle
Queen of Hearts (I'd be surprised if that wasn't already taken)
Looking Glass
Cheshire
Off With Their Heads

Note:  There is no need to say steampunk, the look is victorian, any mech added can be assumed steampunk without having to have that stigma over the deck.

[MrMollusk]

Drink Me Eat Me
Tweedle
Off With Their Heads

wat.

[Soliloquy]

Why not simply Wonderland, or Adventures in Wonderland?  (Has that been taken?)

[Don Boyer]

Why not simply Wonderland, or Adventures in Wonderland?  (Has that been taken?)

Even if they were, I'd think they're close enough to the public-domain original that it would be fine.

[Rob Wright]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jsolorzanoarts/alice-of-wonderland-playing-cards-printed-by-uspcc?ref=users

Now live on KS
$19,500 goal, USPCC

[Collector]

IMHO:

- nice artworks of court cards;

- interesting pips;

- too many the same Cheshire's smiles in this deck;

- the same backgrounds for court cards are a little bit boring;

- the back design looks for me as a combination of clip art. Nice clip art but clip art . Sorry.;

- "Steampunk" element is so unnecessary for this deck (as well as "Alice in Wonderland" element ;

- I doubt this deck can help the upcoming story. When you have the story that is the other case. Than people know about Alice's adventures and can better understand the deck "Alice + Steampunk". I think the art is amazing and even in some way innovative for USPCC decks but those "Wonderland" and "Steampunk" elements are far-fetched.

Prices are traditionally very high for international backers (customers).

Anyway good luck. What a nice court cards!

[Sketch2Draw]

In regards to the title - you should do some careful research.  While "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" is public domain, someone over the intervening years may have snagged "Alice of Wonderland" already.  In fact, I do believe it has been, for a 1966 animated feature: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_of_Wonderland_in_Paris

I did a search on the U.S. Copyright Office website catalog - when I just used "Alice of Wonderland", the above copyright came up. When I searched for "Alice of Wonderland Playing Cards" no results came back - title or name search.

This is a tricky area and I will need to get some legal advice from a copyright attorney before I print, and I can make an update to my design to let my backers know if the name changes a bit. I just know that there are a variety of titles out there with "Alice" and "Wonderland" that have been around for years. I actually have an attorney in mind, specializing in artists intellectual property.

Aside from this, my project is live on kickstarter:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jsolorzanoarts/alice-of-wonderland-playing-cards-printed-by-uspcc

[Sketch2Draw]

I ran into this useful article about how names and title cannot be copyrighted, only the complete work. So I'm not too worried about the title as my story is completely different from Alice of Wonderland in Paris.

http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/01/08/5-things-that-cant-be-copyrighted/

[verloren]

I ran into this useful article about how names and title cannot be copyrighted, only the complete work. So I'm not too worried about the title as my story is completely different from Alice of Wonderland in Paris.

http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/01/08/5-things-that-cant-be-copyrighted/

Copyright doesn't apply to titles or names, but trademarks can. That will depend on how broad of a trademark Disney has applied for (eg movies, books, shirts), and if there can be any arguments depending on the medium, or how similar a name can be.

I think there have been a few trademark cases where names were too similar within the same product market.

[Don Boyer]

I ran into this useful article about how names and title cannot be copyrighted, only the complete work. So I'm not too worried about the title as my story is completely different from Alice of Wonderland in Paris.

http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/01/08/5-things-that-cant-be-copyrighted/

Copyright doesn't apply to titles or names, but trademarks can. That will depend on how broad of a trademark Disney has applied for (eg movies, books, shirts), and if there can be any arguments depending on the medium, or how similar a name can be.

I think there have been a few trademark cases where names were too similar within the same product market.

Disney holds copyright over their versions of the "Alice" story, and trademark over the titles - but not the original.  The owners of "Alice of Wonderland in Paris" could argue trademark infringement because of the similar titles leading to possible confusion by customers that the deck is in some way associated with the movie.

There are actually issues that affect Disney regarding copyrights.  For example, the reason US law has extended copyright protections today to a length of time that was NEVER intended when copyright law was created is because of petitioning by the Disney Company and others - if it wasn't extended, "Steamboat Willie", featuring the first appearance of Mickey Mouse, would be a public domain work today.  And I can bet that when 70 years after Walt Disney's death approaches, they'll be petitioning to push the expiration date of copyrights even further.  It doesn't matter if Mickey himself is a Disney trademark - you could legitimately sell works that are copies of "Steamboat Willie" or directly derived from the cartoon short.

It's how the original "Little Shop of Horrors" movie, directed by Roger Corman, became a play, then a movie based on the play - at the time the original work was created, you had an automatic copyright for 28 years with an option to renew for 28 more.  Corman failed to renew - in interviews, he sort of describes it as having slipped through the cracks - and it became part of the public domain, with Corman not being entitled to any profits from the derived works nor having any control over those works.  The renewal has since been removed.

Current US law is that a work will be covered by copyright for the either a) 70 years after the death of the creator, in the case of individually-created works, or b) in the case of corporate authorship, the shorter of either 1) 95 years after publication or 2) 120 years after creation.  This only covers works created in 1923 or later which were still covered under copyright law (not in the public domain) in 1998.  Anything created prior to 1923 is already in the public domain.  There's a special exception carved out for works created before 1 Jan 1978 but published in recent history at the time the current law was enacted (1998), so those works may be protected until as long as the end of 2047.

As I'm sitting here thinking about this, it's very possible that the movie in question is actually in the public domain by now - if the creators let the US copyright lapse before 1998.

[Sketch2Draw]

The royals for the Hearts are done.

I have a very limited amount of time to complete this project, but I do plan on making some final edits to my cards after I review them prior to sending them to print. This is an ongoing project, and I have decided to add color to the face cards and a vintage background to the rest. The good thing about a project is that it is still a project until completion, and I usually revise my art, granted there be enough time.



http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jsolorzanoarts/alice-of-wonderland-playing-cards-printed-by-uspcc

[Alex Willis]

Digging the full color!

[Don Boyer]

Those are some gorgeous-looking courts.

[MrMollusk]

Absolutely stunning in full color!
It ties in better with the back, too.

[Sketch2Draw]

Thank you for all the great comments! I have updated my project to reflect the new Gold and Silver Editions of these cards. Both designs have been received well, more so for the colors, but now that I am designing 2 separate editions with metallic inks and art enhancements on the tuck cases, card backs, and faces, they are getting more attention.

The corner pips will be getting black and red metallic inks on the faces, and the backs will get gold or silver metallic accents. Gold and silver metallics will go on the borders and large text on the tuck cases.