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PoundFFFFFF · « **Reply #25 on:** December 02, 2011, 03:47:18 PM »

I will have to be absolutely honest... for 20+ years of experience like you've been talking about I expected ALOT better..

There is no reason for ANY custom deck out there to not be on par with or exceed the quality of Ellusionist or T11's decks.

xela · « **Reply #26 on:** December 02, 2011, 03:55:12 PM »

Quote from: PoundFFFFFF on December 02, 2011, 03:47:18 PM

I will have to be absolutely honest... for 20+ years of experience like you've been talking about I expected ALOT better..

There is no reason for ANY custom deck out there to not be on par with or exceed the quality of Ellusionist or T11's decks.

Sure there is. The more you design decks, the more you learn about the design. You learn which colors their press can handle well and which colors look horrible. You learn that certain designs will look blurry due to the air-cushioning. You learn new techniques every week.

Aside from T11 which seems to be regressing with its designs from great to laughably horrible, if you take a look at E, you'll notice their style has improved greatly over the years. Compare the Ghosts and the Infinity decks - one clearly has the edge over the other.

Other companies also have teams of artists who, at the very least, help each other with critique. Paul's designs are actually pretty cool. His portfolio isn't too shabby and he clearly knows what he's doing.

Keep in mind you haven't seen his design at all yet. All you've seen is a quick concept of it.

PoundFFFFFF · « **Reply #27 on:** December 02, 2011, 04:27:33 PM »

Here's some constructive criticism - why not better?

PoundFFFFFF · « **Reply #28 on:** December 02, 2011, 04:37:51 PM »

Fine. I'll expand.

You've chosen to do custom court cards but unfortunately decided not to take it away from the original USPCC faces. Alex Chin has proven that he can completely shatter other decks in court card design - yet all other companies seem unwilling to leave the comfort of the original layout.

Even as, if you decide to improve the original layout, at least improve it. For now, at least, the crown and beard layout looks like a step down from the original.

You've chosen to use a gradient but instead applied it loosely and not very much to your benefit - masking it over the whole thing looks good on certain occasions - this isn't one of them.

In case this is a draft, then I shall take back the above, and I will wait to be astounded by the final product. Keep in mind that, according to your posts, you've been photoshopping before I was born. All I want is to start seeing great decks out.

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #29 on:** December 02, 2011, 04:59:22 PM »

Well, a few comments:

- What you've seen is not final, but teasers, and I do appreciate the feedback as I continue to refine. I will warn that I'm not going to try to make Seasons v2 because that's not my concept.

- I've been designing various things for 20 years. That's true. I've been designing cards for, oh, 2 weeks. Not surprisingly, it's quite hard. Also not surprisingly, designing interactive media is not entirely translatable to playing card design. It's a tricky business, balancing detail with line weights, colors and alignments, mirroring and purposefully breaking the plane. Certainly a lot to learn, I'll be the first to admit.
- I see your illustrated suggestion, but to me that's not necessarily "better" (here's that whole sticky issue of design being subjective). The concept gradients I will agree are simple at the moment and might gain detail. A solid suggestion there and something to consider. I do have a clear concept for my deck, and part of that includes a homage to the original bicycle while adding my own touches. My concept doesn't include detail like Infinity, or illustration like Seasons. (both incredible decks, btw)

There's a wide variety of styles and approaches out there from the few that try to do something on their own. As an example, I personally don't like the Galvanic design. It's not something I will buy, but he's working hard on making something that he likes, which is awesome. I think its great that individuals or small teams even have the ability to produce something on their own these days.

xela · « **Reply #30 on:** December 02, 2011, 05:22:03 PM »

Paul I think your court cards could use some more depth and better highlights. I like the look of the cards, it's unique and a remake of something we know. Yes, #F, your suggested design is very nice, but is it better? Color-wise, yes. Shape wise? I can't decide, since both are different art styles.

It's like comparing painting with sculpting.

PoundFFFFFF · « **Reply #31 on:** December 02, 2011, 06:57:05 PM »

Oh dear, did I write "Better"? I meant to say "more effort". Sorry.

I still stand my case about not losIng to major card companies - what Alex said are technical issues one may run into whilst printing. They may have some better knowledge of the printing process but that is no excuse not to have stunning art. Saying that you have no experience designing cards is no excuse either. The Smoke and Mirros were a first for Si Scott. The Fantastiques were a visit for Sveta. So were the original Karnivals, Guardians, Fultons etc. They, like you, Spent a number of years in other fields of design before doing their first deck. With 20 years of experience you should already be Grand-Masterful.

Also, there is subjectivity in art but do not abuse the word. There is good design and there is bad design. If one does not understand that then he cannot be a designer.

Understand that I wholeheartedly want your company to succeed but this is your first deck - a reputation maker. Dont make the same mistake as bedeceived.

xela · « **Reply #32 on:** December 02, 2011, 08:29:41 PM »

Yep, I think #F is right here, but from the way Paul is working I can tell he's not about to pump out a deck this week and call it done.

Remember the original Vortex concepts from almost a year ago? Those things were god awful. I didn't even show you guys the original court cards or pip designs because they looked ridiculously amateur.

Right now, I want to focus on Paul's design in giving him helpful advice within his means. I personally believe that the court cards he has now can exude the feeling of effort if he added depth, highlights, and maybe some more color variation.

Sidenote: It's good to see so much constructive criticism here. I remember when I first put out my Vortex concept the responses almost never went beyond "AWESOME MUST BUY!!" or "Ew wtf." Use criticism and make your product awesome, Paul!

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #33 on:** December 02, 2011, 08:35:28 PM »

Alex,

Spot on my man. Thanks for the forum to share this stuff.

#F,

I know your intentions are good and I do appreciate the feedback. You certainly do have a keen eye and I am thinking about the points you made and will no doubt work to further enhance my designs. You are 100% right that the intro to a market is critical.

A few things to consider (in a more general, life lessony kind of way):

- Asserting that a skilled pro in an area can seamlessly transition to another medium is, sorry to say, a bit unrealistic. Would you assume that a painter, Monet perhaps, could pick up a chisel and carve the statue of David on his first try? Or that Pavarotti could automatically write a symphony because he can sing? Sure, the core skills can translate through effort but the end goal is a very different place, with very different considerations. Manage your expectations and adjust criticism accordingly.

- Si Scott, for example, is a print designer and illustrator, a much closer analogue to card design than someone like me that has focused on designing GUIs, eLearning, websites and animation (and, secondly, his SM design is incredibly close to the bulk of his other work, so it wasn't much of a stretch).

- I'd encourage, even challenge you to step off the sidelines and give things a shot. You are obviously passionate, intelligent and naturally able to discern quality design. It is far too easy to stand on the sidelines and much harder to conceptualize and follow through. Certainly continue to critique, but sit down and put in the hours to make a complete project yourself. It quickly changes your perceptions (my appreciation for the decks sitting on my desk has increased 10-fold since I started my own project).

- And as an aside, I've rarely, in all the time I've been working been 100% pleased with my work. Even things that have been international award winning I look at and cringe at the raft of bad choices. But, that doesn't mean you stop and it doesn't mean your work isn't valuable. All it means is that you have more to learn

Cheers! Look for more from me soon.

PoundFFFFFF · « **Reply #34 on:** December 02, 2011, 08:42:03 PM »

Quote from: xmetal on December 02, 2011, 08:35:28 PM

- I'd encourage, even challenge you to step off the sidelines and give things a shot. You are obviously passionate, intelligent and naturally able to discern quality design. It is far too easy to stand on the sidelines and much harder to conceptualize and follow through. Certainly continue to critique, but sit down and put in the hours to make a complete project yourself. It quickly changes your perceptions (my appreciation for the decks sitting on my desk has increased 10-fold since I started my own project).

Wait & See, my friend

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #35 on:** December 02, 2011, 09:24:43 PM »

Quote from: PoundFFFFFF on December 02, 2011, 08:42:03 PM

Wait & See, my friend

Excellent! Looking forward to it. There seems to be a lot of talent floating around here...

IAmTheChin · « **Reply #36 on:** December 07, 2011, 04:42:40 PM »

I love Si Scott. I creamed my pants when I found out him and D&D paired together to make a deck. I'm still looking for an original uncut sheet of one of the first 3 series. But I'd agree in that his skillset has a pretty strong overlap into the venn diagram of card design. I don't want to call him a one-trick pony, but xmetal is right in that his illustration style was fully established earlier that the crossover wasn't all that difficult.

My opinion? Play with the what you got. Be a purple cow. Do your hw and get some case studies under your belt. It's a new ball game and the clean graphics you apply to your websites don't necessarily translate to a deck of cards. Maybe it takes you longer, whatever. But if I were you I'd be designing the wazoo out of your website. Making it interactive like no ones business. You know how. You won a mother f*cking MAX award. Like woah. Make use of it. Find your hook and work it. Let your strengths hide your weaknesses until you get tone them up. It'll give you time to establish a strong customer base before launch.

-Chin

Lushbob · « **Reply #37 on:** December 07, 2011, 06:13:56 PM »

I'm just going to say that I love the way this deck is looking. I can't wait for the chance to place an order!

KPopFever605 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 07, 2011, 06:39:47 PM »

Ohh, I can't wait, I'm already loving the deck. When is the Kickstarter release date?

Lushbob · « **Reply #39 on:** December 07, 2011, 06:44:01 PM »

Quote from: KPopFever605 on December 07, 2011, 06:39:47 PM

Ohh, I can't wait, I'm already loving the deck. When is the Kickstarter release date?

I'd like to know that too!

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #40 on:** December 07, 2011, 09:54:47 PM »

I don't have a kickstarter date at the moment. My goal is to make sure my design is solid and all the pieces are at least in the ballpark of final before I go to kickstarter. I also plan to make a video intro to put in there as well (using my snazzy canon T3i

) so there are some pieces to get in place. I just want it to be as excellent as I can so people can clearly see what they will be a part of.

In addition, a minor snag, if you will, is that my son was born a few days ago so I'm slightly preoccupied. Heh. I'm really excited about this project though and am putting in some time as the baby allows.

Stay tuned, and with the help of this awesome community we'll get something cool in the end.

dmbaggs · « **Reply #41 on:** December 08, 2011, 04:22:49 AM »

Congrats on the baby!!

I'm sure we are all willing to wait. Good work takes time and nobody likes a rushed deck, but we don't have to worry about that. The pictures I've seen are nice! I know that it's just a start and I can see the deck turning out fantastic. I'll definitely be keeping up to date on this one. Goodluck with everything and I can't wait to here more

KPopFever605 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 08, 2011, 11:06:30 AM »

Oh, Congratulations!

Just take your time, we are in no rush, we'll someone of us are (not me) as brown_baggs says, good work takes time.

Jin Jian · « **Reply #43 on:** December 08, 2011, 11:48:39 AM »

Quote from: xmetal on December 07, 2011, 09:54:47 PM

I don't have a kickstarter date at the moment. My goal is to make sure my design is solid and all the pieces are at least in the ballpark of final before I go to kickstarter. I also plan to make a video intro to put in there as well (using my snazzy canon T3i ) so there are some pieces to get in place. I just want it to be as excellent as I can so people can clearly see what they will be a part of.

In addition, a minor snag, if you will, is that my son was born a few days ago so I'm slightly preoccupied. Heh. I'm really excited about this project though and am putting in some time as the baby allows.

Stay tuned, and with the help of this awesome community we'll get something cool in the end.

gratz on the baby born.. wish that he grow up well

xela · « **Reply #44 on:** December 08, 2011, 01:52:47 PM »

Congratulations on the baby! He's lucky to grow up with such a talented father.

I am looking forward to more updates. If you need any advice on project launching feel free to contact me.

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #45 on:** December 16, 2011, 10:14:56 PM »

As a quick note, you can now follow Encarded on Facebook, using the Like button at the bottom of the website or visiting http://facebook.com/encarded

Updates to the site will appear there, and as things progress we'll have some more fun stuff to share, contests, etc. Cheers!

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #46 on:** December 21, 2011, 04:37:05 PM »

I've got a little Facebook contest going on. Just takes a quick Like, and you could win something special. Cheers!

http://encarded.com/post/14579596061/facebook-like-contest

Joshua Robinson · « **Reply #47 on:** December 31, 2011, 08:50:30 PM »

http://encarded.com/tendril

check it out

Lushbob · « **Reply #48 on:** December 31, 2011, 09:49:12 PM »

Quote from: Five on December 31, 2011, 08:50:30 PM

http://encarded.com/tendril

check it out

Just about to post about this.

Seriously, guys. This little teaser video makes me want the deck so much. So I guess, in that respect, it's done its job perfectly. The card backs look amazing, for a start. Not only that, but the face of the cards has a background aswell! And it looks great.
And don't get me started on the tuckbox. It's amazingly elegant, showing the four suits held up on tentacles, or tendrils, and reading tendril down the right side.
Don't take my word for it, check out the video yourself by clicking that link up there.
As soon as this deck goes on Kickstarter, you can be sure that I'll immediately be pledging for at least 3 of these decks.

moonexe · « **Reply #49 on:** December 31, 2011, 10:55:07 PM »

The box design looks beautiful! I can't wait to see the finished results, especially the court cards.