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Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown

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Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« on: March 27, 2014, 08:30:21 PM »
 

Nurul

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Not seen this on the forum yet.

Celebrating 3 years, the blue crown are releasing a prototype deck.

These are on sale $25 each. Each deck hand signed and numbered by Alex Pandrea.
333 available, limited to 12 per order.

http://thebluecrown.com/blue-crown-prototype-deck.html
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 08:32:08 PM by Nurul »
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 08:37:48 PM »
 

badpete69

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Weird thought I had seen a post.. Picked one up when I got the email.  Looks ok
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 08:46:16 PM »
 

Nurul

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I thought I had seen it too. I searched the blue crown and saw nothing related to this.

Anyway, I'm being really tight with my funds because I went a little crazy on kickstarter projects.

I've really learnt to appreciate the quality of the deck rather than it's quantity.
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 08:48:59 PM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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These decks are printed at a boutique card printer using a digital process and are not meant for high-level usage

yea... no thanks....
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 09:03:45 PM »
 

Card Player

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Less for More! $25 Pandrea Crowners

Beard, Check. Cards, Check. Anyone see Alex at any tattoo shops?

 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 09:41:48 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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TBC admits that the quality isn't good, the design is bland, and their only plus is that they're super limited.

THIS is the problem with limited editions. I'm sure people will buy them, and I'm sure that they'll sell for a ton after the fact. It doesn't change the fact that this is an exceedingly mediocre deck.

Then again, I can understand the appeal of having a prototype deck. But when you order 333 of them, are they really "prototypes" anymore?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 09:43:00 PM by MrMollusk »
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2014, 09:42:06 PM »
 

vmagic

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These decks are printed at a boutique card printer using a digital process and are not meant for high-level usage

yea... no thanks....

Yeah I agree, this is a pass. Is he getting desperate for money or something?
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2014, 09:43:03 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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Interesting tactic on these. If printed digitally they probably came from something like makeplayingcards.com, and I can't imagine you'd ever get 333 from them as actual prototypes. If developing a design you might get 2 decks made, just to verify your layout and artwork. So these were definitely made "on purpose" explicitly to sell in this fashion.

From that perspective they are a clever idea, but it's a little disingenuous I think to label them as some prototype rarity. I could take any of my half baked ideas and have them next week to sell like this but my digital print prototypes handle so badly I'd be ashamed to have people use them.
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2014, 09:48:36 PM »
 

Card Player

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Quote
These decks are printed at a boutique card printer using a digital process and are not meant for high-level usage

yea... no thanks....

Yeah I agree, this is a pass. Is he getting desperate for money or something?

Hell has frozen over! Did I read jose32 correctly, passing?

There's hope for you yet Victor.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 09:49:11 PM by !An0nym0u5 »
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 10:40:20 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think there's a bit of a disconnect here, gang.  The deck isn't being sold because it's the greatest deck since sliced cheese.  It's a rare item - how often is a prototype of anything ever offered?  There's Alex's signature - value that however you will - and there's the card where he talks about the direction the company's taken in the past three years.  It's not like a common deck of cards and shouldn't be evaluated in the same way.

And by the way, I think this is a prototype of a deck that will come out in the future...
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 03:51:27 AM »
 

DarkDerp

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I gotta agree that marketing them as a  prototype is a little ... odd. The  price high for something admittedly meh especially when compared to the Luxury Crown which are signed, high quality and have a medal doohickey attached to them. I know the luxury are sold out, but 9.99 vs 25 is a big jump when the quality is lower. Of course Ive never owned a HOPC Crown Deck so im hardly the one to put a value on them.

For Marketing purposes  I think   pulling the signed crowns from from the Latest Cards section would be a good move.


Also marketing them as a prototype is odd but not as odd as Madisons Limited Editions, printed  solely for  his personal use, which he on a consistent basis always seems to forget  at Ellusionist. I mean they have no choice but  to give them away in promotions. Then there is the Madison Impossible bottle that was super impossible, the mostest impossible, impossible bottle  of all the other Impossible Bottles, so impossible they  crippled the maker. Or the  finishes  and paper stocks Theory always has, "super lux ultra quilted double roll maxi-soft  imported from the Prussian Empire and coated with the  new T5000 finish.   
 
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 07:02:34 AM »
 

Anthony

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The deck isn't being sold because it's the greatest deck since sliced cheese

Your right Don, it's being "Marked" to make a profit, that's it. The sad part is that he'll probably sell out anyway.
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2014, 07:31:12 AM »
 

splice42

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It's a rare item - how often is a prototype of anything ever offered?

How often is a so-called "prototype" manufactured in the hundreds and offered at an "exclusive limited edition" price?

This is nothing more than a money grab off a deck that's not yet up to real production standards.
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 10:58:26 AM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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I think there's a bit of a disconnect here, gang.  The deck isn't being sold because it's the greatest deck since sliced cheese.  It's a rare item - how often is a prototype of anything ever offered?

The problem is that no one makes 300+ "prototypes". You simply don't. Prototypes are by definition done in exceedingly small numbers or are unique, because you don't want to waste money on a design that may not work in print. That's what prototypes are for. You do 1, refine the art, and maybe do 1 more. The designer only needs 1, because the prototype exists only for their personal benefit. I think everyone understands this intuitively and that's why it all seems odd.
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2014, 07:57:13 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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It could have been an effort to test the printer in mass production.  I'm just conjecturing here.

Either way, it's not really sold as a deck of cards so much as a souvenir of TBC's 3rd anniversary.
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2014, 08:28:21 PM »
 

Card Player

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I think there's a bit of a disconnect here, gang.  The deck isn't being sold because it's the greatest deck since sliced cheese.  It's a rare item - how often is a prototype of anything ever offered?

The problem is that no one makes 300+ "prototypes". You simply don't. Prototypes are by definition done in exceedingly small numbers or are unique, because you don't want to waste money on a design that may not work in print. That's what prototypes are for. You do 1, refine the art, and maybe do 1 more. The designer only needs 1, because the prototype exists only for their personal benefit. I think everyone understands this intuitively and that's why it all seems odd.

Exactly +1
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2014, 09:31:58 PM »
 

S. Carey

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This would have been something I would have went for if they were offering prototypes of decks they offer or previously offered. Like a mix of prototype red crowns, blue crowns, noc, vaudeville, altruism etc...I would have probably jumped on this deal if there was a chance I could get a true prototype of a deck that was actually put into production. I probably would have paid more for it too. That would be more believable than offering a prototype of something we never even saw before.

Just speculating here but they probably ordered 500 decks of this "prototype" and decided to sell 333. Obviously they want to keep some for themselves. We might see these again in other promos or giveaways.

I gotta agree with Paul as well. Who orders a couple hundred decks if they just want to check colors? Can't that be done by printing only 1 or 2 decks? Unless the company they printed with required minimums, I don't see the need for printing 333 or more for just testing the design out.   

At any rate, it is sold out right now so their tactic (sincere or twisted) worked.   
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2014, 10:19:00 PM »
 

Card Player

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This would have been something I would have went for if they were offering prototypes of decks they offer or previously offered. Like a mix of prototype red crowns, blue crowns, noc, vaudeville, altruism etc...I would have probably jumped on this deal if there was a chance I could get a true prototype of a deck that was actually put into production. I probably would have paid more for it too. That would be more believable than offering a prototype of something we never even saw before.

Just speculating here but they probably ordered 500 decks of this "prototype" and decided to sell 333. Obviously they want to keep some for themselves. We might see these again in other promos or giveaways.

I gotta agree with Paul as well. Who orders a couple hundred decks if they just want to check colors? Can't that be done by printing only 1 or 2 decks? Unless the company they printed with required minimums, I don't see the need for printing 333 or more for just testing the design out.   

At any rate, it is sold out right now so their tactic (sincere or twisted) worked.

Knowing there are collectors that would be interested in prototype's, what's to stop a company like TBC from creating low quality versions of past USPCC releases and simply calling them a prototype. Where do we draw the line on being mislead by sales tactics? For all we know this Crown Emblem Deck is already printed by EPCC but TBC had 400 decks made by another printer, called them prototype and slapped a $25 price tag on them. When did buying playing cards start feeling like buying from a used car salesman?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 11:28:47 PM by !An0nym0u5 »
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2014, 10:40:59 PM »
 

vmagic

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I personally just don't see the point of these, prototypes are supposed to be ultra-rare as has been mentioned, this just seems like cash grab. Print cards really cheap, slap a number and signature on it, and then sell it for maximum profits, seems to be what he's doing with these and that seems to be the general consensus around here.

 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2014, 12:13:01 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I understand that I'm trying to swim upstream here in terms of public opinion, but there are plausible - not even probable, but plausible - reasons for such a print run.

Scott - it wouldn't make more sense to use their existing decks, since those decks were printed with USPC and these are pretty certainly done by EPCC.  I don't think it was a prototype for checking colors - they may have been checking the digital printer out for a possible mass production idea.  Imagine how simple it would be to make many different custom decks if standard printing presses weren't needed, just a high-end printer running off of a desktop?

!An0n - could it be an elaborate scheme for them to make money?  Probably - most businesses are in the business of making money.  Where does the line get drawn?  It gets drawn where people stop showing interest and stop buying.  We're obviously not at that point yet, as we all can see by the sell-out.  Just the rarity alone would have been enough to make certain collectors chomp at the bit to get their hands on some.  The people here are obviously not that kind of collector - I'm not either, so yay, us!

And again, I doubt these were done with a different print company - just on a different machine, a digital printer rather than the big old offset machines used to make most decks today.  Digital printers are predominantly used for making proof sheets, just to insure that the colors and details come out as desired - and even there, it's not a perfect process and there will usually be some minor difference between the digital proof and the finished product, but the proof does provide the artist with a rough idea that's close enough to the end result in most cases.  However, finding a digital printer that could make playing cards as good as the ones from the offset machines and affordably is something that the custom deck industry's been striving toward for a number of years now.

Victor - yes, that's exactly what this is, a "money grab".  But anyone trying to sell a product or service of some kind can be seen as making a "money grab" just as easily.  People in business gotta eat, too, and more than just gub'mint cheese.  You say, "print cards really cheap" - do you know what was paid for each deck?  I said this before, it's less about he product being about playing cards than it is about the Blue Crown's anniversary, and this was Alex's way of making something to commemorate it.

As long as the money's not coming out of your pocket, why should it matter?  It's not my cup of tea, either, but I don't recall being forced to buy any.  In fact, in the past year, my buying habits have become extremely selective, to the point where I'm occasionally passing on decks I like, never mind ones I don't...  So he probably found somewhere between about 150-200 people who bought out his inventory - good for Alex.  I didn't want it, didn't buy it - good for me.  You and some others here CLEARLY didn't like it, so you (probably!) didn't buy any - good for all of you.  I'm failing to see a real problem here.  It was a limited edition item, sold to people who pay extra attention to the "limited edition" part - and considering the quantities, it didn't take many people to make it a sellout.

If this was some other item, say, a special "My Little Pony" doll made just for TBC, I'd imagine there's be few takers here.  But the bronies out there who love that sort of thing would eat it up and ask for seconds.  And the point is, "So what?"  It may not be something you'd normally find in TBC's store, but still, "So what?"  You do what you have to do, within the limits of the law, to make a living, and this netted him some of the cash needed for that.  Ain't no law against selling My Little Ponies or commemorative printings of a prototype deck.  You don't like it, don't buy it - vote with your cash, plain and simple.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 12:15:31 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2014, 08:29:28 PM »
 

vmagic

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It's not that we're being forced to buy any but I just don't see why anyone would try and pull something like this. You sure about the being epcc? Their quality is usually good.
 

Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2014, 04:35:47 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's not that we're being forced to buy any but I just don't see why anyone would try and pull something like this. You sure about the being epcc? Their quality is usually good.

Geez - "trying to pull"?  You sounds like you personally are being ripped off.  Are you?  Did you buy any?

I'm absolutely NOT sure about the deck being printed by EPCC.  But since USPC doesn't do print runs this short, it made logical sense.  They did use EPCC for printing the Nautical Decks, but that was at the Shanghai printer who also did the Global Titans.

Alex Pandrea mentioned in the ad copy on the sale page that they weren't printed off of a press but off of a computer printer of the type used to make proof sheets - these are significantly lower in finish quality and not generally had cheap at USPC.  The last time I looked, I think a proof sheet costs $50 and a prototype deck costs $300.  Since they weren't selling anywhere near that high and I don't know any small company that can afford to toss money around like that, I consider it extremely unlikely that these were made by USPC.  The next-best candidate would be Expert, because of their past business relationship and the fact that Alex and Bill are friends.

Do me a favor - go back to the first post and read the text-laden card in the last image, the one written by Alex that talks about the company's third anniversary.  Alex explains the entire thing, start to finish, right there for all to see.  This "deck" is really just a limited-edition commemoration of the anniversary, made from a prototype design that was considered but hadn't been made until now.  It could just as easily have been an anniversary edition of a magic DVD, a commemorative deck clip, a beer stein with the company logo, a paperweight, a poker chip, a teddy bear wearing a blue crown, etc., but he chose to use the iconic Blue Crown logo on a simple deck of cards, representative of the 1st Edition Blue Crown decks that sold out with amazing speed when the company first opened its virtual doors online.

But back to the point - he's not trying to "pull" anything on anyone, Victor.  It's just a collector's limited-edition doodad that in this case happens to be a deck of cards meant more for show than for play.  There's no conspiracies, there's no mystery, there's no robbery or fraud - just a guy celebrating three years of living a dream, one that you seem intent to stomp on.  Take a deep breath, exhale, say, "Gee, I'm glad I didn't buy that," and get on with your life already.  Oh, and be thankful that you aren't living some dream that someone like you is trying to crush under their boots.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 04:36:57 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2014, 05:16:47 AM »
 

agera94

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It's not that we're being forced to buy any but I just don't see why anyone would try and pull something like this. You sure about the being epcc? Their quality is usually good.

Geez - "trying to pull"?  You sounds like you personally are being ripped off.  Are you?  Did you buy any?

I'm absolutely NOT sure about the deck being printed by EPCC.  But since USPC doesn't do print runs this short, it made logical sense.  They did use EPCC for printing the Nautical Decks, but that was at the Shanghai printer who also did the Global Titans.

Alex Pandrea mentioned in the ad copy on the sale page that they weren't printed off of a press but off of a computer printer of the type used to make proof sheets - these are significantly lower in finish quality and not generally had cheap at USPC.  The last time I looked, I think a proof sheet costs $50 and a prototype deck costs $300.  Since they weren't selling anywhere near that high and I don't know any small company that can afford to toss money around like that, I consider it extremely unlikely that these were made by USPC.  The next-best candidate would be Expert, because of their past business relationship and the fact that Alex and Bill are friends.

Do me a favor - go back to the first post and read the text-laden card in the last image, the one written by Alex that talks about the company's third anniversary.  Alex explains the entire thing, start to finish, right there for all to see.  This "deck" is really just a limited-edition commemoration of the anniversary, made from a prototype design that was considered but hadn't been made until now.  It could just as easily have been an anniversary edition of a magic DVD, a commemorative deck clip, a beer stein with the company logo, a paperweight, a poker chip, a teddy bear wearing a blue crown, etc., but he chose to use the iconic Blue Crown logo on a simple deck of cards, representative of the 1st Edition Blue Crown decks that sold out with amazing speed when the company first opened its virtual doors online.

But back to the point - he's not trying to "pull" anything on anyone, Victor.  It's just a collector's limited-edition doodad that in this case happens to be a deck of cards meant more for show than for play.  There's no conspiracies, there's no mystery, there's no robbery or fraud - just a guy celebrating three years of living a dream, one that you seem intent to stomp on.  Take a deep breath, exhale, say, "Gee, I'm glad I didn't buy that," and get on with your life already.  Oh, and be thankful that you aren't living some dream that someone like you is trying to crush under their boots.

He'll have a review on his channel in a week or two.

Anywho, I completely agree with Don here. I propose a toast to Mr P. He's made it three years doing what he enjoys doing and helping others to make the journey.  :karrit:
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2014, 09:46:37 AM »
 

DarkDerp

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I doubt these where printed on a preflight  printer. Cost would be ridiculously high and paper stock would be hoooooorrrible. My guess would be a straight digital run on a higher end digital press.

 I don't see it as highway robbery though. Running 300 or so decks for judging print quality and finishing on a digital press seems about right. With sheet size and speed your looking at about a 1000 sheets and a 10 min print run. Anything lower than this and a company would laugh at you when ordering. Kudos to them for looking at other options. I keep waiting for people to explore digital finishing on playing cards... embossing, uv coating, variable spot coating etc...
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Re: Prototype Emblem Edition Crown Decks from The Blue Crown
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2014, 12:46:30 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I doubt these where printed on a preflight  printer. Cost would be ridiculously high and paper stock would be hoooooorrrible. My guess would be a straight digital run on a higher end digital press.

 I don't see it as highway robbery though. Running 300 or so decks for judging print quality and finishing on a digital press seems about right. With sheet size and speed your looking at about a 1000 sheets and a 10 min print run. Anything lower than this and a company would laugh at you when ordering. Kudos to them for looking at other options. I keep waiting for people to explore digital finishing on playing cards... embossing, uv coating, variable spot coating etc...

It would not surprise me in the least to learn some companies are already doing this - Zazzle would be my first likely suspect.  I think they get pre-printed faces on uncut sheets from USPC, much like what USPC has done with their Congress decks.  They take the designs available and run the backs off of a printer in an "on-demand" fashion, so there's no excessive unsold stock lying around.  The problem, though, at least from what I've been told, is that the Zazzle decks have a terrible coating and aren't meant for high performance.  If they can do something about that, it would be a huge step forward to digitally-printed, mass-produced playing cards.

To be clear, "finish" refers to the texture of the card, not the plastic coating on it.  The coating or varnish is something totally different, though at one time they were spoken of synonymously because the finish used to be pressed into the coating, not into the paper.  And ALL coatings, even Magic Finish, are "plastic" in some form or another - it drives me nuts to see people talking about "plastic coating" like it's something horrible.  Yes, cheapo dollar-store paper decks are often marked as "plastic coated", but if all deck coatings weren't some variety of plastic, they wouldn't last long at all.
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