Quote from: WKalush on January 14, 2014, 01:43:05 PM

Also we changed how we handle shipping charges and I would be interested in any feedback from those who have bought now and also previously.

When shipping was included, I could always get more (I did that with the Black Legends - placed an order and then an hour later decided to get another brick.)
This way, today I got 8 to make sure I got some, but with $5.95 in shipping I'm not going back to get anymore, even if I have second thoughts.

Although we don't explicitly state it on our website we always try to work with people on reducing the shipping as far as possible. We definitely don't like the idea of making money on shipping. This shipping method is an experiment and my preference has always been to include shipping in the price. But that works out better when we have brick or more prices and the guys buying 2 or 3 decks at the single deck postpaid price gets dinged a bit. Having said that we do respond to customers' requests about consolidating shipping and we do sometimes refund excess shipping paid, even when it's "included" in the price.

bk

But my question is: only 235 decks were produced at all? Or only 235 were available for CARC?

We have only released 235 (almost every deck we have on hand) but I expect a small quantity more to come in. But these might never make it and might be damaged when they do (both common scenarios unfortunately). The only way to guarantee you'll get a deck is to order them now.
Another poster complained the price is too high, and I agree. But with these small runs and, to be frank, paying Lawrence more for them this time, so we had to increase the price. This won't be the standard and we will always fight to offer decks at the best prices we can.
Also we changed how we handle shipping charges and I would be interested in any feedback from those who have bought now and also previously.

bk

Hi Don,
Sorry about my slow response but I was away.
I've decided that Conjuring Arts will carry the No1r deck. I'm not sure on the price but they won't be super expensive. Probably $7.95 a deck plus shipping.
One caveat is that these are from a different factory than either Pr1me editions or Sketch decks. For me, as a cardman, I prefer the first Pr1me decks over either sketch decks or No1rs but that is just me. In fact after using the same Pr1me deck (red) for over a year it is still a favorite. After they break in they stay in a very Jerry's like condition and I love that. This is not the case for the Sketch decks and I haven't field tested the No1r enough to make any claims about it.
We will build a product and have the decks available very soon.

bk

Interesting they used the first Bicycle Ace & Joker - instead of the fancier second Ace. Don't like the back!

When Karen was in charge of the brand they were hyper careful about not doing anything that could be seen as diluting their trademarks (i.e. printing variant Bicycle Rider backs, even if they had done so previously). They extended this mania to the point that they would not allow me to use the first Bee Ace of Spades because they reasoned it wasn't their current trademark so could dilute their rights.
They might have decided this Ace of Spades was safer than the prettier second state. According to those in the IP world their reasoning isn't completely rational but over-cautious.
Just my theory.

bk

Congrats, nice one. You will notice that when they show the faces they don't put them over a spot printed for a back design.

Great deck Tom, especially that tuck case. Reminds me of that amazing Faro deck Jim Faller had.

I believe one would need to find older sample books to have a shot at seeing that back.  Either that, or the design was for some unknown reason pulled at the last minute, after the sample book was printed but before the insertion of the samples, which is why it was replaced with face-up cards in the various sample books.  There's a chance, though slim, that the back might even appear in advertising of the same period.  I don't supposed USPC created something akin to a mail-order catalog that had pictures of the backs rather than actual samples?  The missing back might appear in such a thing, if it exists.

On further research I can find no image or other reference to the Bee 178 back. My theory is the same as yours. Either the Sample folders are misprinted and this was how they fixed it or they had 178 in development and pulled it after the folders were produced. All the folders from NYCC that I've seen are from this same era and NYCC did samples differently at other times.
Presently back 178 is a phantom.
I'm not sure about USPCC but NYCC did issue some catalogs but none that I have show back 178.

bk

A friend emailed me and stated that he thought the two of hearts, which states Grade No. 92 Bee, Back No. 178 may have been placed upside down in error… Any thoughts from the new owner / aficionado? Thanks… J.

I have quite a few of these sample folders from NYCC and I believe that a reversed card was meant to show the faces and also when they did that at a specific position, like back 178, it might mean that back was out of print or no longer offered. Just a theory and more research would be necessary to determine if their purpose was as calculated as that. But I can state that these sample sets do change considerably in what is offered for sale and reversed cards are often on them.

Thank you to everyone for the kind welcome.
I'm delighted to participate in the forum and very happy that it's now Tom's baby and will be more integrated into the 52 Plus Joker.

bk

Hello All,
I made a post on the Discourse a few days ago and Don Boyer suggested I write a little introduction and post it here.
I'm first and foremost interested in sleight of hand with cards. It's this long held interest that led me to start experimenting with custom cards over 25 years ago.
Being that I started into serious study of card magic in the early 80's I was lucky enough to have cut my sleight of hand teeth on cards produced by USPCC in the 70s and early 80s before they fully adopted plastic coating. We used to have to use fanning powder to keep a deck from getting too sticky to use. As USPCC changed their coatings cards kept getting slipperier and slipperier and this caused me and others to try to collect up unused older packs. Not so much for collecting value but for a sure supply of cards we knew how to handle.
In 1988 I was in a position to introduce a new potato to the American market called Yukon Gold and in commemoration we produced about 1500 decks at International Playing Card Co. in Windsor. I was very lucky and the cards came out beautifully! I wish had more than a couple dozen decks left! This deck had the "paper" feel that USPCC was migrating away from at that time.
My interest in sleight of hand has never waned but my further interests in magic and magic history have grown over the years. In 2001 I started a foundation for the study of magic history and in 2003 this foundation started to operate a real library and research center in New York City. It's expensive to fund the payrolls etc of the librarians and employees so a few years later after Ellusionist and David Blaine had started doing custom decks I decided to get reacquainted with USPCC and to attempt to produce some custom decks with a difference. My primary interest in this new endeavor has been to produce excellent feeling and handling cards. My foundation, Conjuring Arts Research Center, started to produce large runs of cards at USPCC primarily because I believe that their web press uses a superior coating thus making better cards. Over the many decks we did at USPCC we experimented with many different papers and other changes to attempt to get what I consider excellent cards. I feel that many of the cards we have sold at Conjuring Arts represent the finest handling cards presently produced. Near the end of 2012 we decided to expand our horizons and to attempt to find and work with factories world wide. I decided that the foundation would start a proper playing card company as a separate entity and The Expert Playing Card Company LLC was formed. Very simply the EPCC exists to produce the world's best cards for those who actually use them. All proceeds and profits from anything Conjuring Arts or EPCC sells go strictly to charity. No profits are ever kept from our playing card or any other magic related ventures.
To persue more potential factories I personally went to China and visited many factories and met with even more makers who came to see me. After scouring as many as possible I decide to work with 2 asian factories. The first EPCC production was our Global Titan deck. This deck has a distinct feel and for many it performs better than almost anything else on the market. Nonetheless the coating is still a little too platicy for all tastes and the way they are cut out, although good, still has some minor cupping that you don't see with USPCC cards. The Global Titans also are designed to look a certain way. My own personal taste is for cards from the golden period of 1870-1920 and we decided to pattern our decks and style after the venerated NYCC. The Global Titan deck used a back design that Dougherty, NYCC and others used from as early as 1864 and this was really an American classic design. Historians will obviously see that we repurposed artwork from NYCC brands for Global Titans tucks, bricks and faces as well.
Looking for even better edges and a subtler coating the EPCC's second venture used a different factory and we again used rare early artwork and great Art Nouveau ideas for our Exquisite decks. We feel these cards are the best yet and without a doubt the edges and registration are the finest we have found anywhere in the world.
The EPCC is about how cards feel and we will continue to search the globe for factories with high standards and who can work with us to create cards that perform. We also realize that there are those who think calling ourselves a Playing Card Company without owning a factory is improper but that is how the world has always worked. Even now the largest company in the world, Apple Computer, doesn't own a factory. They design, commission and sell their products and can shift from factory to factory as they need to in order to compete. EPCC is no Apple computer but the "designed by" model is the same.
We have also sought out close ties to Tom and Judy Dawson and have learned a great deal from them and they have helped EPCC start a strong collection of early playing card designs. You will definitely see some of these long lost beautiful old decks revived and reintroduced for the 21st century. They will not be decks that are just reproductions but things will be modified and updated and hopefully made to appeal to a modern aesthetic.
I hope this introduction tells you a little about me and why Conjuring Arts and EPCC are in the business of selling playing cards.

Bill Kalush