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Messages - Zenneth

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26
Playing Card Plethora / Re: 2nd Edition fatboys
« on: November 15, 2013, 10:28:45 PM »
Hey, Zenneth, good to hear from you.  I don't supposed you'd be willing to tell us about your life-changing event, would you?

[/quote]

Actually, am very happy to share it, even though it's a bit off topic:
Was 92 kgs on 1st Sep.this year and now 76 Kgs, a total of 16kgs weight loss in 2 and half month time by old school method, I post the transformation photos on my facebook.

27
Playing Card Plethora / Re: 2nd Edition fatboys
« on: November 15, 2013, 09:13:17 AM »
Hey guys!

Long time no see!!!!!

Sorry that I didn't even hint before the release of v.2 fatboy, been very occupied with a life changing event, my biggest change in the last 10 years!
More than welcomed to see my facebook to find out what it is...am very proud of it.

Alright, let's get back to the topic...

Don is absolutely right about what he said with regard to this Taiwanese playing cards factory.
In fact, they just had some equipment upgrades and hence the better stock and hand feel with v.2 fatboy deck

The major reason why we didn't even bother to disclose the number of the decks being printed is the abuse of "Limited Edition".
Yes, I know it still works as a marketing ploy, but it can be quite annoying to the playing cards community as well.

Paul, this factory really don't have a very strong edge over pricing to USPC, however they are extremely efficient and very easy to work with.

Send them an email, they always reply you on the same day.
A day of email correspondences with this factory will get you the same result of communicating with USPC for a month ...or two...actually.

Best,
Zenneth







   

28
A friend of mine gave me this deck nearly a month ago, it's all silver pips, so very difficult o distinguish the suits.
Quality is great, but no use to me, so I gave it away after two shuffles.

29
Interesting info Zenneth.  Now it seems to me with labor costs presumably being lower in China that if one of these manufacturers shifted their focus to quality in lieu of quantity they could corner the market on inexpensive high quality decks.


I imagine its not entirely impossible. 
If one of these factories would do something like USPCC did with David Blaine to collaborate with an international celebrity
and then put out a line of trick decks or simply a series of high quality decks to establish an international brand name,
I am sure they will definitely get quite some orders from non US based custom deck designers or companies.

         

30
Few days I ago I was in China attending a magic lecture, someone came up and showed me the Marverick deck that said Made in China on the tuckcase.
Marverick still is one of USPCC's brands if my memory serves me right, the cards feel 99% the same if not completely identical to Aviator,
I would love to get the same factory manufacture my designs if possible, but it's improbable for me to track down that factory and meet their MOQ even if I could find it.

Yao Ji from Shanghai is perhaps currently the best selling brand/biggest playing cards manufacturer in China, they produce 0.7 Billion decks a year according to their website.

I know many Chinese friends are using Yao Ji deck for their private gambling games, and they use a new deck for every single round,
so a whole night of game will easily trash away a gross or even more decks.

To them, Yao Ji is already more than sufficient for the purpose, it has a reasonable quality, retails only $0.5 USD a deck in China and much less when buy in grosses.

I am sure a manufacturer like Yao Ji could of easily make very high quality playing cards, however, the problem is, Yao Ji, like most Chinese playing cards factories,
don't take small quantity order. (yes, even a 10,000 decks run is still considered a very small quantity to them)

Considering the fact that even intricate iPhone parts were made in China, there's no reason that Chinese playing cards factories cannot produce high quality decks,
it's just they don't have much business incentive to do so as their profit comes from quantity, not quality.

Many of my magic friends and myself included have done quite some research to find playing cards factories in China that produce high quality decks,
unfortunately, by far most Chinese factories that take small quantity order don't produce acceptable quality decks.

I was told that in order for them to manufacture USPCC quality decks, they would have to import paper stock from Germany,
so that the MOQ is way much higher than 15,000 decks.
 
However, if someone ordered a customized run of decks made with high quality paper stock but didn't use up all that paper stock,
and you are lucky enough to contact the factory right on time, then you will probably be able to print some high quality decks with Made in China price.
   


31
Here's the pics of the FBEAD deck for anyone that's interested.  Pretty sexy case IMHO.


That is kinda sweet.  Yes, I wish I bought one.  Yes, I can live without one, however, when there are other expenses in life to consider.  (Drat.  I'm just too practical.)  :))

Reminds me a really bad joke that I said to my ex's mom. Once I did a few card tricks for her and she asked me whether I was using "trick decks", I said I am in a relationship now so my financial status couldn't afford me to buy those really expensive trick decks...

hmmm....

Can anyone that has received the deck briefly describe the courts? I'm sure they'll be standard seeing as this deck is more to advertise and promote the brand but curious anyway. :))

yup, indeed very standard looking courts...and no gaffs, 54 cards only

Though, if fatboys were to release new decks, I am pretty sure they will make much more alternations and make it more appealing to collectors.


The fact is the deck is still available on Coterie site!

yup...still have 35 of them in stock?

32
For the last couple of days, I have been practicing with the fatboy deck alone.

While the deck is not any thicker than a standard USPCC deck, for some reasons they are a lot more stiff.
Unlike Legends, fatboy doesn't have a glossy finish on the surface of cards, so there seems to be more friction.
Cards become a bit more softer after break in, so...for me it's getting better...

Just now I switch back to a custom deck by USPCC and then it feels totally different from the way that I used to feel about it...

I don't know how to describe such feeling, but I believe fatboy may well become many people's favorite practice deck.

Zenneth   


33
I guess most people should be aware of the correct release time, not too much a big problem here, we have a bit more than 1 gross of stock left in stock at the moment.
Considering this is a non-USPCC release, I would say they are going fast enough.

Zenneth

34
Guys,

Thanks for the supplementary explanation on the time zone.

There's no surprise or anything with this release, only a bit more than 700 decks and even price can be viewed here:

http://coterie1902.com/news/fatboy-playing-cards

Cheers,
Zenneth

Awesome!

But... How can we buy them? ._.

about 3 hours later from now on, these decks will be available at coterie1902.com

Cheers,
Zenneth

35
Guys,

Thanks for the supplementary explanation on the time zone.

There's no surprise or anything with this release, only a bit more than 700 decks and even price can be viewed here:

http://coterie1902.com/news/fatboy-playing-cards

Cheers,
Zenneth

36
I am travelling between mainland China and Hong Kong very often these days for my personal business,
so it's very difficult for me to follow up the development of Coterie products as well as customize deck releases,  but my passion for cards has never been diminished,
will visit discourse and UC now and then. 

Hopefully we can submit a finalized Coterie custom deck designs to USPCC after I return to Hong Kong next month.

Cheers,
Zenneth   

37
Don, thanks a lot for the head up.

The fatboy deck is a very nice discovery and surprise for us, here are a few things that I can share with you guys.

fatboyeatallday is a Hong Kong street fashion brand/online store, they use a lot of triangle elements within their designs.

This deck is not designed by or for magicians, hence there are only 54 cards in the deck and one red, one black joker.

My first impression of the back design is that it looks like the Virts deck and Jerry's Nugget a lot, however, according to the designer, the color combination was inspired by his favourite softdrink: Pepsi  :)

I tried the deck myself and here is what I think about the hand feel and paper stock of this deck:

The paper stock is quite hard and very snappy, you can expect this deck to be a very durable deck.
The cards are "locked", so they are pretty good for both card flourishes and card magic moves,
They only customized Jokers and Ace of Spades, other cards are pretty standard looking.
You need to use a specific way to do faro shuffle with this deck: hold the deck face down and start from bottom of the packet

We have reached an agreement of making all the remaining fatboy decks exclusively available at Coterie, however, there are only a little less than 1000 decks still in stock anyway. We are indeed giving a bit of priority to local collectors, however, we will make at least 600 decks available on Coterie.

While we can't do much about international shipping, the deck themselves will not be marketed as a rare deck,
so that's probably a good news to many. 

Cheers,
Zenneth
 
P.S. Garden Truth wasn't marketed through Coterie...


   

38
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Bee Coterie by Zenneth Kok
« on: March 26, 2013, 05:49:50 AM »
Hi Don,

Few days ago I sent an email to USPCC asking about the progress of the new edition, but they said they have decided to change the Bee brand marketing strategy after Coterie Bee was released.
I heard that two major China custom playing cards retailers approached USPCC about releasing customized Bee decks after Coterie Bee was released, but they have been already refused by USPCC ... I too have no idea of what they are up to now...still waiting for more detailed information, but there is a chance that we might not be able to continue the Coterie Bee line decks.

I hope this is not the case as it has taken me a lot of time to finish the designs for each edition of Coterie Bee decks as well as the scripts for the Coterie trailer story line...hmmm....



 

39
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Bee Coterie by Zenneth Kok
« on: March 26, 2013, 03:51:55 AM »
Hey guys,

We only have 70 decks of 1st edition Coterie Bee playing cards left in stock and we will stop selling them on 1/4 doesn't matter they are sold out or not, so if any of you ever want to get them then this will be probably the final chance to get them at a fair price.

Thanks for all the support!

Zenneth

40
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Bee Coterie by Zenneth Kok
« on: February 07, 2013, 01:26:29 AM »
Hi everyone,

We are doing Chinese New Year Sale at Coterie right now, there are little less than 1000 decks of Coterie Bee gold edition decks available,
so if you ever wanted to buy some, now is the best time to do it. Details of the Chinese New Year Sale:

- All items 22% off ! [Except Coterie Bee one way forcing deck as there is only 1 deck left]

- A $15 USD Free Gift on first 24 orders !!

- Lucky Draw Giveaway - 2 sets of Coterie Bee Playing Cards and Card Box Uncut Sheets set to be randomly giveaway to customers placing order during CNY sale !!!

Notice that our office will be closed from tomorrow till 19/2/2013, so all orders during CNY sale will be shipping on from 20/2/2013.

Happy Chinese New Year!
Zenneth

41
I emailed CARC this morning. They got back to me same day. My order was shipping out today. Picked up a brick (4x 3 pack). This makes it my 3rd playing cards purchase released in 2013 (Virtuoso, D&D New Fan Backs & Legends). I'm trying to be more discreet this year with what I buy. I had to have them! Its only January!

Looking forward to finding out how these handle also. I hope the producers of playing cards are do their homework before making manufacturing choices. I'm not just talking about using a deck of cards. I'm talking about actually visiting these manufacturers to see what they are doing and how they are doing it.

When the manufacturer's on the other side of the world, that's not always practical...

Quote
I think you're missing something here, something very important - more so to deck designers than consumers.  We now have a company in Taiwan that can manufacture playing cards on par with if not better than USPC.  In the recent past, if you wanted quality custom work, most people turned immediately to USPC; other companies couldn't match the quality.  You described them rather nicely as like Aladdins with Magic Finish, though these aren't smooth like Aladdins are.  Decks that good from a different company - and CHEAPER to make per deck, too - are previously unheard of.

Hey Don, Better late then never... I've been busy.

I understand its not practical for everyone...

Those of us that are buying this deck are for the most part more concerned about comparing the quality to USPCC. This choice has as much to do with the producers profit margin though. Yes, the decks are cheaper to make for producers but those of us that are purchasing the decks are not getting the decks any less then we would for other custom USPCC decks. How does Legends being made cheaper benefit the customer using the decks? The USPCC is an American Company and therefor I know they adhere to U.S. labor laws. Do we really know how or who this Taiwan Playing Card Company is using for these decks to be made? There are thousands of American Companies that use cheap labor country's to manufacture goods. While I am enjoying the Legends decks very much, I'm taking all this hype about quality with a grain of salt. I know what I'm paying for when I purchase USPCC decks.

Don, Over time I've learned to read between the lines of some of your posts. I know you have an intellectual interest in the success of a "friends company". I'm just wondering if your indulgent support of Legends Playing Cards being made cheaper has anything to do with a future project you know of? Otherwise, why would YOU "Don Boyer" care that they are being made cheaper?

The "saving" has already been passed onto customers with Legends.

Retail price of Legends in greater China area is very good, particularly in Hong Kong.

What makes Legends available at a slightly lower (instead of a much lower) price than USPC decks in U.S. is the import tax and international shipping, unfortunately there's nothing much can be done about this, it's the same when Asians trying to buy decks from U.S. retailers.

The factory that prints Legends is a closely guarded trade secret, I don't think Don knows which factory it is and I doubt he has much interest in this. He is barely trying to point out a different option to custom deck designers here.

I am the first Chinese magician ever sponsored by USPCC so I am supposed to say some good things about USPCC, but I can be very honest with you, when it comes to printing custom decks, they can make things very very difficult for you, even to people like me.


42
Hey Zenneth, do we get tracking numbers by email??

Yes, we are going to do that, I am pretty sure all tracking numbers will be able to sent out on next Monday.


43
Hey guys,

Just a quick update to the pre-orders of Legends at Coterie, we too received our stock a couple hours ago and immediately working on packing.

All pre-orders will be shipped out within this week, until then, we will not relist the new stock on sale.

Cheers,
Zenneth


44
I asked Lawrence when CARC would have them and he said hopefully by next month. It will be a real release, and not a pre-order.

I too thought offcial sale wll be able to start this month, but apparently there will be a little bit of delay in shipping, hmmm...

Anyway, judging from the speed of pre-orders placed at Coterie, I must say Legends will soon become (already is...actually) a very sought after deck.

Lawrence doesn't want any of the hidden secrets of Legends to be revealed, but... by the time when people actually start to realise the value of these secrets,
you could probably only be able to find Legends on eBay at several times the initial price.

45

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)


while I certainly understand the cost of shipping. the problem remains that since each item includes shipping costs, there are no volume discounts. for example, if I order 2 bricks of legends and an extra coterie deck, the coterie deck still costs 13 bucks so I would be charged the regular shipping price for that deck even though it most likely does not increase the shipping cost at all when ordered with 2 bricks of cards.

I understand I can order those decks together in a package but I was merely using that order as an example.

First of all, thank you guys for the support and I believe you guys will be very happy with your purchase, this is no doubt one of the best deals in year 2013 for playing cards community.

We really trying to offer the best we could with this pre-order, 3 decks Legends is $25 USD shipping included, 3 Legends + 1 Coterie Bee is $34 USD shipping included, which means we charge $9USD for a deck of Coterie Bee(and its shipping), so you see that we are clearly not charging $13USD a deck for Coterie Bee.

And yes, $25USD a pair of Black and White New Fan Back offer is still applicable for order amount over $100USD.

Cheers,
Zenneth

I understand the bundle costs. but my point is that if you want to pick up and extra single deck or two, the cost of the deck is 13 even though it wouldn't actually increase the shipping costs when purchasing 12 or 24 other decks. ultimately it's not a huge deal cuz its at most 4-10 dollars extra but it's something to consider as more products are added to the site.

I see your point now, will think this over and see if we could come up with something for this kind of order.

Thanks for the advice!

46

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)


while I certainly understand the cost of shipping. the problem remains that since each item includes shipping costs, there are no volume discounts. for example, if I order 2 bricks of legends and an extra coterie deck, the coterie deck still costs 13 bucks so I would be charged the regular shipping price for that deck even though it most likely does not increase the shipping cost at all when ordered with 2 bricks of cards.

I understand I can order those decks together in a package but I was merely using that order as an example.

First of all, thank you guys for the support and I believe you guys will be very happy with your purchase, this is no doubt one of the best deals in year 2013 for playing cards community.

We really trying to offer the best we could with this pre-order, 3 decks Legends is $25 USD shipping included, 3 Legends + 1 Coterie Bee is $34 USD shipping included, which means we charge $9USD for a deck of Coterie Bee(and its shipping), so you see that we are clearly not charging $13USD a deck for Coterie Bee.

And yes, $25USD a pair of Black and White New Fan Back offer is still applicable for order amount over $100USD.

Cheers,
Zenneth

48
@ hecrob Coterie Bee decks were parimiarly designed for magicians, I tried my best to provide more value with the deck by getting a gaff card that could be a stand alone item to go with it, we made videos to show 3 applications with it, I think these tutorial videos already making our deck worthy of its price. I understand there are many good looking tuckcase design out there, but don't you think Coterie Bee tuckcase design goes particularly well with black suits? I believe professional magicians will appreciate this.

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)

Anyway, thanks to a mistake by USPCC, we will be able to make the next edition available at cheaper price.

@ Don, yes, what they save at the production cost with Legends will pass onto customers, we also worked out some deals to sell Legends along with Coterie Bee(coterie mailing box is designed to best pack 4,8 or 12 decks, so that's a hint of how these decks will be made available)  I am still waiting for Lawrence to provide me with the press kit, but I will try to make prices available in these two days, so that customers will have an idea about the various options. 

 

49
@ Lara, Yes, I can testify for the quality and design of Legends, the quality is superb, very durable, hand feel is similar to Pr1me, most importantly, I have never seen so many clever ideas build in 1 deck, magicians are going to love them! You will be amazed by the price too, it will definitely become a super fast seller. I consider Legends to be a game changer, because I honestly believe the release of Legends will make a lot of designers switch to this new manufacturer that Lawrence is using.

@ Drian Well.. I am glad to learn that you are happy with the extra value that gaff card provides...am very proud of it too, for so many good magic effects are possible with just 1 card...but I still think Coterie Bee is at least as durable as White Lions, if not more... ;)

@ Don, too bad USPCC refused to print that KH gaff anymore, otherwise KH Gaff refills will be available as an item at Coterie.

Lawrence gave me all three decks: Blue, Red and Green before my trip to Toronto last month, he used metallic ink on the Green deck,
though, not sure Green deck will be more expensive than the other two colors.

Coterie will be make them available for pre-order next week. 

50
Magical Cardistry Bonanza / Re: Zenneth Kok's Entwined Hearts
« on: January 11, 2013, 12:41:33 AM »
Here's the link for the revised Entwined Hearts trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9GOtLejFHY

Hope you guys will like it!

Zenneth

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