Starting on the Spades ...


I’ve played around with two colour versions for the ‘floating spades’ within the artwork: dark vs light. Still not sure which one I’ll end up going with. My concern is that black spades on dark blue may ‘disappear’ too much in printing, but if the black/blue combination is printable I think it is my preferred one – what do you think?

Jack of Spades

In this one the floating spades are light blue:


... and here, they're black:


Queen of Spades

Same variations - first light blue spades:


... and black:


Thanks for looking!
Annette

I don't think I've commented here and I really should because so far... I love this. These are great. I don't have any issue with eye feel at all here. My eyes naturally move to their eyes as a focus, exception being QoS which is nose then eyes and it works just fine. The colors are delightful and play well within the shapes. Even with the quirky font (I have yet to see the numbers) I can't complain about  the indices. One caveat, I'd love to see a slightly more obtuse diamond for the Pip itself. I'd love to see the diamond stretched out a little to resemble the shape on the QoD and JoD. The pip feels a little like a Box on it's edge. Spacing from the art is pretty much spot on, easy to identify without encouraging a negative eye feel from too much negative space. I'll say it again, I'm loving this.

Thank you so much Fess for your kind words and feedback - truly glad to hear!
Good point you make about the diamond - don't want tilted boxes... Can I ask if you mean just the (floating) diamonds in the artwork - or the pips in the indices as well? I'm happy to play around with an elongated (stretched) diamond, though changing indices will affect the other 3 pips, to keep them all the same height (which may be a good change, I just want to make sure

Here is the King of Diamonds with elongated pips in the artwork:


and ... same shape diamonds, though here I've used the darkest colour in the palette (apart from black), similar to how the artwork pips appear in the suit of Hearts. I kind of feel this works and may give more distinction between artwork pips and indices - though always happy to hear your thoughts If this works, I'd probably change the artwork pips in the clubs as well ...



Thanks again for looking!
Annette

Very, very cool.  Glad to know the background was deliberate in their choices of color.  And, if there is that reference to tarot, perhaps you can strengthen it by incorporating the elemental symbols.  It seems it would be quite easy to do in the crowns,

Thanks Helshawk - great to hear

There's no firm standard regarding the chosen colors used in four-color decks.  The general rule is that people tend to keep it simple, sticking to primaries for the most part.

There's some people who thoroughly advocate for using four-color decks, often because of visibility issues in older people.  They're sometimes called "no-revoke" decks because they help prevent mistakes called revokes in bridge - the playing of a card out-of-suit when you possess cards of the correct suit in your hand.

However, the majority of card players tend to prefer the use of only two colors.  Many people play solitaire games that rely on having only two colors - the additional colors makes playing with no-revoke decks a major headache.  Some just think it's confusing, preferring to use just the suit shapes alone to distinguish between suits and leaving the colors alone in their traditional two-color pattern.

One compromise I've seen and occasionally recommended in people I've consulted for is to choose colors that are different but similar or complementary for suits that are traditionally the same color.  For example, one might use two dark colors (like black, navy blue and/or forest green) for the black suits and two light colors (like white, yellow and pink) for the red suits, or perhaps one would use colors that are shades of each other, like pink and red for red suits, blue and sky blue (or black and gray) for black suits.  The right combination can make the deck easily usable for two-color solitaire games while still making each suit a different color.

Another possible option might be using four colors, but with filled-in pips for the black suits and outline pips for the red suits.  The colors chosen for such an option have to be just right and the thickness of the outlines need to be thick enough to easily identify the colors but thin enough to indicate it's a "light"/red suit at a glance.  In such a case, darker colors tend to be good for the solid pips, but you can't overlook the importance of making those outline pips dark - with the right choice of colors, solid pips in light colors and outline pips in dark colors could work - you'd have to experiment with your choices to see how functional they are.

Thanks Don 
My hope was that the chosen palettes wouldn't throw any confusion in the mix. While I'm not aiming for a 'four colour deck',  I still don't want to be breaking rules - and your detailed helpful information is a relief

For now, I'll keep going with the current colours (may tweak somewhat as things progress) regardless of artwork, indices will be traditional black/red throughout...

In the previous update I forgot to add the pen & ink drawings for the Royal Diamonds:



Introducing the King of Diamonds:



Comparing to the drawing, this King's long hair has been fashionably rolled to suit his two-way appearance.

Coming soon: the Royal Spades ...

Thanks for looking!
Annette

Another beautiful set of court cards!  . Thanks for listening to everyone's suggestions, this deck is turning out fantastic...so colorful and lively...it definitely stands out amongst a lot of the other decks out there.  Really looking forward to the launch of this deck!   

Thank you so much Cardfool - glad to hear, your encouragement and feedback here on the forum means the world to me
I'll definitely be looking to your thoughts on the number cards when I get to them... and the naming of the deck

Just food for thought on the backgrounds.  Red for hearts is a no-brainer.  What if green were the background for the more organic, flora-like form of the clubs and yellow for the diamonds, since the most commonly found diamond is a yellow diamond.  Wrap that up with a black background for spades.  just some subtleties to mull over.

Thanks Helshawk - good points
My colour choices are adapted from the mineral elements associated with tarot suits. Over the years, this has become the way I see suit colours in both playing cards and tarot, though I'm happy to hear your thoughts on the following - especially as I don't want to break any rules that make this deck less playable

Hearts - absolutely right, RED - the element is water, yet symbolic of blood and emotion (which defines the colour)
Clubs - Yellow - the element is Fire - symbolising creativity, energy and spirituality
Diamonds - Green - the element is Earth - symbolising material wealth, growth, putting down roots and tending the earth
Spades - Indigo (dark blue) - the element is Air - symbolising clarity of mind, intelligence and intuition

I have seen the yellow diamonds and green clubs you describe - and also other variations where Copag use blue diamonds (and green clubs), and others using green diamonds, blue clubs and even blue hearts ... While four colour decks were developed with easy visibility in mind, I am curious if there is a standard that goes across the board?

Thanks again and *wave*
Annette

Here is the updated and revised Queen of Clubs ...



And I've made a start on the Royal Diamonds - where the courts are defined by a green background:

Jack of Diamonds


Queen of Diamonds


Thanks for looking!
*wave*
Annette

Interestingly enough, as I re-examine the deck and the precise shape of the spade in the Ace of Spades, I noticed something interesting.  One could re-envision that spade as a woman's cleavage while wearing something like perhaps and open bolero jacket, with the handles of the derringers almost forming the cups of a bra or a bustier. Perhaps the Outlaws deck can have a Wild West showgirl in such a fashion for the AoS... 

Cool observation Don ...

In the previous design, Ace of Diamonds has a large eye in the centre of a diamond - providing a definite association to the back design. Curious to see if you keep this (and what you do with the other Aces)

I like the frame (and straight corners) around the new back design - looking forward to seeing more!
*wave*

Nice update with the Kings - can't wait to see the ladies

Quote from: leangyan on July 18, 2016, 10:02:44 AM

Hi Don,

I'm still in two minds about the pale pip/dark pip concept. One part of me says, it is somewhat new and not seen in custom decks. Also, I didn't face any issue during gameplay with the deck (original) that I'd got printed via MPC. This part makes me believe that anyone can get used to it once this deck is in their hands though at first, it may look different.

Other part of me thinks about your feedback and  asks me to go back to what is usually there on the number cards. Here are a few drafts. I'm also thinking to go ahead with indices on both diagonals.

Appreciate your thoughts.


Regards,
Sunish

There's a popular acronym that's sort of a mantra among designers in all fields.  K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid!  It's meant as a reminder to not overcomplicate something just because you can.

The reason why you don't see those extra pips very often is simple - they can be confusing.  Maybe they aren't to you, but consider the centuries of playtesting that have gone into the standard design we use today.  Some players are so traditional, they don't even like when people rearrange the pips into non-traditional patterns - those and some others are the players who would absolutely reject a design such as this.  They see a number on a card's index, they expect to see exactly that many pips in the card's main artwork - no more, no less.  Even in cases where people are "capable" of understanding the artistic license you're taking, some less-than-scrupulous players might take your design as an opportunity to fudge a play made in a game, pretending to misunderstand what was played or what they were playing - "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a different card - all those extra pips are so confusing..."

There are numerous other ways one can embellish a card's design without resorting to superfluous pips - stick with something simpler and easier to understand that doesn't allow for any interpretive ambivalence.  The idea of adding decorations in a lighter shade is a good start, but consider some design or pattern other than what you have now.  You can keep your unique pip configurations - there are enough people who will find them acceptable, especially in the custom card community - evidence has shown this in the popularity of similarly-unique designs.  But the extra pips do the design more harm than good.

At least that's my perspective on the topic - your mileage may vary!

And there was me looking at pretty patterns    -  I can see Don's point about possible confusion arising in game play from the light / dark pips and it will be interesting to see what you come up with Sunish
*wave*

Nine Lives Playing Cards (Poker size) by Abolina Art
Released June 2016
Printed by EPCC

http://www.ninelivestarot.com.au/ninelives-playing-cards_poker.php

I really like the art, it's different and fun, but still has good artistic merit!  The only thing holding it back is it feels like it's great art thrown onto a card instead of a great art playing card.

• The first is the layout used where the image is a framed artwork with the colored background instead of faces directly on the card.  In the case of the KoC it seems like you could easily remove the yellow background and push the faces right/left and resize to allow for the entire crown to be shown.  However, in the case of other images that's not really possible.  Making the image and background to take up the entire card and removing the white border entirely obviously has playability concerns, but if it's art deck who cares.  Still, I think it's better to continue on your current track and keep a white border for playability and retain your general layout and consider ways to minimize the downsides of this layout.
• You have a lot of white space on the edges, check with your planned printer and see how close you can push the indices to the edge and then also see how much closer you can pull the central artwork towards the indices and still make it flow.
• Additionally, or alternatively, you could utilize that white space on the edges to add related decorative elements.  Perhaps something as simple as a long wavy line of the same color as the background on the left and right sides under the indicies to make it feel like the borders are part of the artwork instead of a thick white border.

I've had to greatly reduce my purchases lately due to lack of space and have become very selective, but this will mostly likely be the exception that I'll buy, especially if further changes are made to address the concerns mentioned.  Nice work!

Firstly, Thank you so much ecNate for your feedback, I really appreciate it Pointing out things that will make this deck more playable and exciting to use is exactly what I want...

I can definitely see your point about the white ... In wanting to emphasize details flowing beyond the background, I was worried I'd lose that effect if the background extended the full width of the artwork... You made me see that I had room to extend both background and artwork.





Your comments were really clear and hopefully these updated and revised Kings are on track to solve some of the issues?

As far as printing goes, EPCC and Legends are at the top of my wish list, though I haven't really looked into the printing/launching side of things yet ... *as soon as I stop procrastinating and panicking with 'first Kickstarter campaign syndrome' - I'll get the ball rolling*

Hey Nine Lives,

Yeah, I mean Australian Aboriginal Art...I guess it was the patterns and especially the white dots on the faces of the courts that made me think of it...and the fact that you are from Australia

Let us know what you decide on the JoH, either way, I am all in!

Look forward to seeing more! 

Cheers!

Great associations Cardfool Traditionally, the only Aboriginal people allowed to do the intricate dot-painting are the desert people. Here on the East coast the artwork is different, with more carvings and bark paintings, though galleries show and sell Indigenous art from all over the country. For Aboriginal people, the clan or people they belong to - dictates the type of art they can do (and the stories or dreaming they paint)... Sorry that was a bit of a side-track - for me, I just like dots

I'm still thinking about JoH's nose, having revised the palette slightly with this update, there will be changes to both Jack and Queen - coming soon

Thanks again for all the great feedback guys!
*wave*

Hi Sunish I like the look of the latest number cards; how you have created a pattern within a pattern and a nice sense of depth.

Contrast can work in a similar way to complimentary colours: when placed side-by-side, colours bounce off each other, both appearing brighter and more exciting. Thick line next to thin adds contrast and depth ... dark next to light has a similar effect. By contrast (no pun intended), when there is distance between 'opposites' you can at times end up with gaps - or even holes... The rubber-band has stretched too far to allow the opposites to 'work together' and instead of 'bouncing' there is a sense of something having fallen through the gap.

I think your new palette has a lot going for it - it's both fresh and eye-catching! Though at the moment, your characters seem to disappear into the background. As the illustrations are so lovely in themselves, my ramblings merely suggest - keep looking for the bounce