PlayingCardForum.com - A Discourse For Playing Cards

Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Design & Development => Topic started by: Claire G on October 08, 2016, 08:32:26 PM

Title: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 08, 2016, 08:32:26 PM
Hi Everyone!

I'm thinking of launching a KS soon. I'm currently working on a unique deck of cards which you can color in. I thought about how fun it'd be to have a deck with 54 unique designs that you can customise and personalise, like use colouring pencils, pen, watercolours, etc.

These cards are hopefully something you've never seen before. Here’s some designs I’ve made and shared with friends to get coloured.

(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u523/ClaireG19/UC3_zpsxsv1enpw.jpg) (http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/ClaireG19/media/UC3_zpsxsv1enpw.jpg.html)

(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u523/ClaireG19/UC_zpszxxtahgs.jpg) (http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/ClaireG19/media/UC_zpszxxtahgs.jpg.html)

(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u523/ClaireG19/UC1_zpsx7if7vcq.jpg) (http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/ClaireG19/media/UC1_zpsx7if7vcq.jpg.html)

(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u523/ClaireG19/UC2_zpslbeoujax.jpg) (http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/ClaireG19/media/UC2_zpslbeoujax.jpg.html)


Anything you’d suggest I should consider? Please comment and share your thoughts and idea
[/b][/size]s.
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 08, 2016, 08:55:59 PM
The layout above might be iffy on some displays. Sorry  :(
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Don Boyer on October 09, 2016, 02:33:57 AM
I love the idea in concept, but in execution it's not terribly practical with one major exception.

The problem you'll run into is that the pasteboard stock used for making playing cards has a coating on it, usually made of either a plastic base or (for more eco-friendly companies or where required by eco-friendly laws) a starch base.  That coating makes it difficult to draw on playing cards with anything other than perhaps a Sharpie or similar marker pen.  Other writing methods don't work very well because of the coating - pens (ballpoint or fountain), pencils, watercolors, etc. just don't transfer well to the surface.  Even Parker pens don't cut it - they're designed for use in space, utilizing a pressurized "thixotropic" solid ink that melts with friction from the ball point and transfers to surfaces, and ordinarily write in places where other pens fail (zero gravity, underwater, on glossy photo paper, in extreme hot and cold temperatures) but don't write well on playing cards, probably because of the fine-textured embossing that most higher-quality cards have.  Thicker paints might transfer to the surface, but will make the cards themselves thicker as well and are likely to chip off when handled.

I think you should test out various writing methods, but overall your best bet will be to make the cards with standard production methods and have your backers/customers use Sharpie marker pens or similar for writing on the cards.  It's what magicians have relied on for many years in card tricks where people write on the card to personalize it and make it uniquely theirs.  You could even look into offering the cards with Sharpie pens as a package deal.

Oh, and make your court cards look like PEOPLE!  It's easier to do abstract shapes, I'm sure, but I think your customers would get a kick out of making their cards similar in design to standard cards, even with their unique color schemes.  This means people on the Jacks, Kings and Queens - and perhaps the Jokers as well.  And don't forget to make an elaborate Ace of Spades!
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 09, 2016, 02:55:24 AM
Thank You so much Don for this valuable feedback.

The paper, I’ll need to double check but if I recall correctly, it’s 300gsm 1 side coated and the other is standard uncoated stock to allow for any drawing/colouring on the cards. It’s thick enough to block out the light and also for the ink/pencil not to seep through to the other side. It’s not ideal per se to the absolute standard of professional casino grade playing cards but it does balance the feel of playing cards with colouring.

Oh definitely with people. I’m currently working on another deck which is more like the traditional design with Jacks, Queens and Kings. And oh absolutely the Joker, people seem to be most excited to colour him in.
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: skinny on October 09, 2016, 03:45:45 AM
I want to give each of my nieces and nephews (and adult friends) these...to color and give back to me! I want them to color the boxes, too!

I really, really like these. If you can't find someone to offer an uncoated playing card stock, I'd be interested in them even if they were printed with a traditional printer (as opposed to a playing card company). Sure, they'll wear out quickly in either case. Sure, the crayon or colored pencil might smudge on the next card's back, but I'm not exactly going to wear them out bringing them to the poker table. Bonus points if you can find an opaque stock that could handle crayons, colored pencils, or markers without soaking / ruining the back design.

For me to give the kids, I think they're awesome. They function much like a coloring book.

For me, though, (and ~some~ of my adult friends  ;D ), I would prefer room for creativity beyond coloring. Thinking of traditional court cards, I'd like to be able to draw the their faces, crowns, or even their outfits and gear. I humbly suggest a more traditional design, less structured...and more looking "like people," as Don suggests.

Stretch goal idea - a less-structured second deck? A grown-ups version? Something like that?

I'm down for a couple decks if I have to use permanent markers. I'm down for six if the cardstock works with the crayons, colored pencils, and markers that my young nieces and nephews are allowed to use and already have. I'm down for a couple extra in a grown-ups version.

2¢.
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 09, 2016, 04:20:46 AM
Hi Skinny,

I've actually found a good supplier who can offer uncoated stock for the cards. Unfortunately, they won't be perfectly playing card quality but I will try match it as best as I can. The cards I got from them handle crayons, colored pencils, or markers without soaking / ruining the back design. So pretty much you've got a colouring book but playing card sized and themed  :D

I am planning on designing a traditional court card deck but that will take a while, probably early next year. I want to make it perfect and more professional looking with enough details on their outfits.

I'm just curious about launching the "Mandala style" as above to see what people think and get my hands dirty with playing cards  :)

Also something to give the poor parents to keep their little ones busy over the holidays  ;D
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: skinny on October 09, 2016, 09:48:53 AM
(I had missed your reply to Don when I posted mine; I didn't mean to be redundant.)
I'll back this.
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 09, 2016, 10:00:15 AM
Thank you Skinny!  :D It's incredibly lovely hearing support!

I'm also looking at tuck boxes at the moment to try get the whole playing card experience
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: NineLives on October 09, 2016, 10:12:44 AM
Hi Claire :)
These are lovely! Definitely designs to inspire people to get colouring - especially the number cards and aces. I like the mandala theme, even though I too would like to see characters depicted in the court cards - so it's nice to hear you have that planned for the future :) As far as being playable, it sounds like you are doing your best to source a supplier who can meet your needs (and all the happy colouring-in people's), which is great.
 
Daughters of the Moon (a tarot deck, published I think some time in the '80s) was available in colour and also a black and white version, which people took to with all sorts of colouring tools - In offering people the inspiration to 'make the deck their own', I think a small compromise on stock can be acceptable?

Don's suggestion to supply your deck with the tools to colour-in is clever - that way you can (in part) direct people to the ones [crayons, pencils, or markers] that will work best on your chosen card stock.

Best of luck with your project :)
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 09, 2016, 06:21:16 PM
Thank You NineLives! I'll check out Daughters of the Moon. It's good to get some ideas  :)
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Fess on October 09, 2016, 09:09:11 PM
I like this as well as the suggestions even though I prefer to have card colored by the expert hands that designed the decks. It's fun and who doesn't like fun? Indices are quite nice too. I will be happy to support your campaign and back this project. :))
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 09, 2016, 09:17:16 PM
Thank you Fess. I was hoping in making them colourable so the card holder can personalise however they want. Let them have a bit of creative fun that they can then play with  :)
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Don Boyer on October 10, 2016, 01:30:23 AM
Again, I'm personally for the concept of using standard playing card paper, coated on both sides, and supplying markers.  Markers, particularly those like Sharpies that use felt tips and permanent ink, will work with no difficulties on standard card stock.  Packing the decks with markers would be great, much like the old coloring book sets you might have gotten as a kid for holidays or birthdays, and there's a HUGE trend in the US for "adult coloring books" as a way to de-stress and revive childhood memories - your deck would be ideal to market to that particular audience.

Using standard coated pasteboard stock will make your cards durable enough that they can be played with over and over for weeks if not months before needing replacement and translucency is a non-issue with high-quality black-core stock.  Better still, making the deck with a major playing card company would make your deck a higher-profile product, something that you might even be able to sell to retailers.
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 10, 2016, 02:09:47 AM
Don, I tried printing standard playing card paper from MPC but the deck was a bit too difficult to colour well with Sharpies. The colours would mix, smudge and fade as it would dry. I am still trying to find a good version for the paper to match the various markers.

Oh, I've definitely been inspired by the "adult coloring books" trend but the fan base is mostly colouring pencils. Therefore standard playing card paper will be difficult to use for colouring with pencils. I'm aware that standard coated pasteboard stock with laminate coating will have issues with longevity but I'm still working on various versions trying to find the best middle ground I can for the paper! Get the best of both worlds.  :)
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Don Boyer on October 11, 2016, 01:41:31 AM
Quote from: Claire G on October 10, 2016, 02:09:47 AM
Don, I tried printing standard playing card paper from MPC but the deck was a bit too difficult to colour well with Sharpies. The colours would mix, smudge and fade as it would dry. I am still trying to find a good version for the paper to match the various markers.

Oh, I've definitely been inspired by the "adult coloring books" trend but the fan base is mostly colouring pencils. Therefore standard playing card paper will be difficult to use for colouring with pencils. I'm aware that standard coated pasteboard stock with laminate coating will have issues with longevity but I'm still working on various versions trying to find the best middle ground I can for the paper! Get the best of both worlds.  :)

The issue, then, might be with MPC's stock.  MPC is a Chinese manufacturer, probably sourcing their paper either from China or from Europe.  If you go with USPC, their paper has some rather unique qualities, due to recent changes in Federal regulations regarding playing card manufacturing.

All new decks they make have to be "eco-friendly" - not only made from recycled content where possible, but also using more biodegradable components.  This means that not only is their paper made from high post-consumer content recycled papers, but their inks are vegetable-dye based instead of petroleum and their coatings are made from starch, not oil-based plastic like nearly all other pasteboards made elsewhere in the world and used for printing playing cards.  The coatings in particular would likely make their cards a lot more marker-friendly than what MPC is offering.

Best way to know is to figure it out for yourself.  Get a hold of a few decks of Bicycle 808 cards, but insure they've been made sometime since 2009 - the box will have a more modern design with an advertisement on the back instead of the card back design, the front of the box will say "STANDARD" instead of "RIDER BACK," the cards will have been manufactured at the new plant in Erlanger, KY and there will be manufacturing information printed on the box bottom, including the year it was printed.  To be doubly-sure, look at the Ace of Spades - any Ace of Spades from a recent paper deck produced and printed by USPC (not produced by a third party and printed by USPC) will have a manufacturing code on the bottom of the face, the first four digits of which will be the week number and last two digits of the year it was printed.

When you have a deck that was made since 2009, test it out - get some Sharpies and other brands of markers and scribble away.  See how the end results work.  I know that fine-line Sharpies tend to have less-desirable results, but medium and broad-tipped markers should do well.
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 11, 2016, 02:56:37 AM
Oh wow I had no clue about MPC issues with their stock. Thank you for this knowledge! I'll definitely go check out the post 2009 cards.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Don Boyer on October 12, 2016, 02:10:45 AM
Quote from: Claire G on October 11, 2016, 02:56:37 AM
Oh wow I had no clue about MPC issues with their stock. Thank you for this knowledge! I'll definitely go check out the post 2009 cards.

Thank you!

It's really less about their stock, more about the difference between US-made pasteboard stocks and stocks from elsewhere.  USPC is the major manufacturer in the US, producing at least 90% of all the domestically-made cards, so theirs would be the easiest to find.

The only exception to the Federal regulations among USPC brands would be Maverick - while USPC does have their own plant in Erlanger, Kentucky, the Maverick brand is their lowest-end product, typically selling for only a dollar a pack.  It's manufactured for them by a third-party contractor in China to keep production costs down low enough to make them profitable, which likely make those decks exempt from US-mandated manufacturing restrictions for eco-friendliness.  It says right on the box that they're plastic coated.

USPC also owns a European printer, Heraclio Fournier, but they allow the company to operate independently for the most part, printing under their own company name - at present, the only USPC-branded cards made for them by Fournier are their plastic Bicycle Prestige decks.  Our club president, Lee Asher, has a custom brand that's manufactured by Fournier for him - the Lee Asher Signature Series Fournier 605 decks.

I know way too much about this stuff...  :))
Title: Re: Feedback On Coloring Cards I'm Working On
Post by: Claire G on October 12, 2016, 07:07:41 AM
Don, you can never have too much knowledge!  :D