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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Design & Development => Topic started by: Jay Losa on August 27, 2015, 06:42:58 PM
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Hello all !
Living in Mexico for most of my childhood was a life changing experience. Even though I was born and spent most of my adult life in the United States, so much of who I am is attributed to those years. It is because of this that I decided to create a lively, unique deck of playing cards that would adequately celebrate and portray my deep love for my mexican culture and heritage.
This project has been completed and will launch on kickstarter soon. I just wanted to hear some opinions and am willing to make any changes that will make this a better project if necessary.
Let me know what you think please!
BACK DESIGN : If you've ever seen a mexican poncho or blanket, then you know what inspired this back design.
SUITS : The suits have been recreated to honor mexican cuisine.
Avocados for Spades, Nopales for Clubs, Tortilla Chips for Diamonds, and Tomatoes for Hearts
COURTS : Each of the 12 court cards have been completely redesigned to represent a variety of characters. HIstorical figures, religious figures, mexican professions, and more.
shown below are the Taquero (taco guy) and La India, who honors the indigenous women of Mexico.
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Hello, Jay, and thanks for bringing us your second deck effort.
The blanket as card back has a small plus - and a big minus. The small plus is that it's colorful. The big minus is that it's boring as far as patterns go. Nothing but stripes. It's about as exciting as half of the national flags of the world, which consist of little to nothing more than colored stripes. Somewhere in Mexico and its culture, there has to be some interesting patterns that are immediately identifiable as "Mexican," much like bald eagles and fireworks can evoke America.
The suits - it's risky to completely alter suits like this into shapes no longer as clearly recognizable as their original forms. People will more often reject than accept them. Consider an alternate idea - use STANDARD pips in the indices. For the artwork in the cards themselves, find ways to better incorporate the standard shapes into your custom shapes. Make a standard diamond shape and place two end-to-end tortilla chips into it - you now have a standard shape AND your custom imagery.
Courts - I like the idea of using the "common man" (and woman!) as your "royalty" for your deck. It reminds me of the French Revolutionary decks, where Kings, Queens and Jacks were replaced by Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. (It's also why Aces became the high card in the deck - in the French Revolutionary deck, it elevated the common individual above the royals.) They're the people we're more likely to identify with and remember because we see them every day. Just be careful not to make them into caricatures - you want to pay them the respect they deserve.
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Thank you so much for your input Don. I will make a few changes.
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The blanket as card back has a small plus - and a big minus. The small plus is that it's colorful. The big minus is that it's boring as far as patterns go. Nothing but stripes.
Here's the new final back design :)
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Looking much better than the earlier back design. :D
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Looking much better than the earlier back design. :D
Thank you so much! I plan on releasing these mid September
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I didn't think it would be, but yes - it's an improvement. It really looks more interesting, and in a good way.
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I didn't think it would be, but yes - it's an improvement. It really looks more interesting, and in a good way.
Thank you Don !
I haven't decided who to print with. I own an expert deck and don't like the feel. I hear legends is pretty good but I don't own any and I know USPCC isn't always perfect. I do love how the Monarchs and virtuosos feel tho.
Any thoughts or links so I can decide who to print with ?
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I didn't think it would be, but yes - it's an improvement. It really looks more interesting, and in a good way.
Thank you Don !
I haven't decided who to print with. I own an expert deck and don't like the feel. I hear legends is pretty good but I don't own any and I know USPCC isn't always perfect. I do love how the Monarchs and virtuosos feel tho.
Any thoughts or links so I can decide who to print with ?
Expert has more than one type of stock. Each has a unique feel - they're actually embossed to different depths.
Check out the forum's home page. There should still be a banner ad there for CARD CULTURE. That links to a special, free issue - and in that issue is an article I wrote earlier this summer about the stocks and finishes offered by Expert. It's worth reading.
I have a pack of Mardi Gras, printed by Legends. Got some ketchup on them. Was actually able to CLEAN the cards with a damp paper towel and a dry one. Wouldn't even dream of trying that with a USPC card. Most Legends decks are produced in the same factory as Expert's decks, though I hear they've started using a second facility as well. Some Legends decks even use the same stocks as Expert.
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Thank you Don !
I haven't decided who to print with. I own an expert deck and don't like the feel. I hear legends is pretty good but I don't own any and I know USPCC isn't always perfect. I do love how the Monarchs and virtuosos feel tho.
Any thoughts or links so I can decide who to print with ?
Expert deck and Legends deck kinda grow on me. At first I didn't like it at all, since it is stiffer than all USPCC decks. But once you break them I think they handle better than any USPCC deck and outlast them by a big margin. Just like what Don said, there are different type of stock that you can try that are offered by both Legends and Expert.
Definitely check out the CARD CULTURE for more information on stocks.
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Here's the new final back design :)
I really like your new back design, it almost feels 'wearable' (in a good way) :)
I did notice a bit of a visual see-saw effect going on in the blue-green 'bars' close to the centre of the card; where vertical lines and curves seem to be competing for attention. It's not as noticeable in the smaller preview (where the colours blend together more), so please ignore this comment/suggestion if it doesn't sit right with you.
cheers :)
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Thank you all so much for your replies and advice. I will keep researching printing companies. I plan on releasing these September 16 (Mexican Independece Day).
The pips and suits are still being modified as don suggested, (thank you very much!).
I'm glad you like the back design as well :) , thanks to don again for being honest about how boring the old design was.
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Thank you all so much for your replies and advice. I will keep researching printing companies. I plan on releasing these September 16 (Mexican Independece Day).
The pips and suits are still being modified as don suggested, (thank you very much!).
I'm glad you like the back design as well :) , thanks to don again for being honest about how boring the old design was.
If that's Mexican Independence Day, then what's "Cinco de Mayo" (the 5th of May) - besides my mother's birthday, of course... :))
Do a print test to determine if your chosen printer can deal with the range of colors AND contrast as well as the level of detail in that back design. There's a lot going on in there. With the exception of companies that use a digital printer for print runs and not just for prototyping, bear in mind that said prototypes will usually come out a little darker than the actual print run.
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Do a print test to determine if your chosen printer can deal with the range of colors AND contrast as well as the level of detail in that back design. There's a lot going on in there. With the exception of companies that use a digital printer for print runs and not just for prototyping, bear in mind that said prototypes will usually come out a little darker than the actual print run.
Don, correct me if I'm wrong but there's a higher cost for designs with multiple color (typically over four colors), correct?
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Do a print test to determine if your chosen printer can deal with the range of colors AND contrast as well as the level of detail in that back design. There's a lot going on in there. With the exception of companies that use a digital printer for print runs and not just for prototyping, bear in mind that said prototypes will usually come out a little darker than the actual print run.
Don, correct me if I'm wrong but there's a higher cost for designs with multiple color (typically over four colors), correct?
If you're talking about using more than four colors of ink, usually there is a higher cost. One of the most expensive decks in the history of USPC was created using TWELVE colors of ink.
But most people these days use CMYK - cyan, magenta, yellow and black. They're mixed together in the print process in varying quantities to come up with the other colors in-between, in a similar fashion to the ink in a typical color inkjet printer of the type found in most homes and small offices. A "full color" deck will have a total of eight printing plates - one each in those four colors for the faces and one each in those four colors for the backs. Additional colors would be spot colors, metallic inks, UV inks, etc., and all those generally cost extra.
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If that's Mexican Independence Day, then what's "Cinco de Mayo" (the 5th of May) - besides my mother's birthday, of course... :))
Cinco de Mayo (Spanish for "fifth of May") is a celebration held on May 5. The date is observed to commemorate the Mexican army's unlikely victory over French forces at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862, under the leadership of General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín.[1][2] In the United States, Cinco de Mayo is sometimes mistaken to be Mexico's Independence Day—the most important national holiday in Mexico—which is celebrated on September 16.[1][3]
Thanks Wikipedia ! Haha
That's the date I'm planning, if designs are not all complete then I will have to wait a bit more. Worth it tho.
I will find out about the four colors as well, Paul. Thank you for that !
I'm sure I'll be sticking to uspcc. All the pros seem to go with them: Kings Wild, D&D, Theory 11, etc.
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I'm sure I'll be sticking to uspcc. All the pros seem to go with them: Kings Wild, D&D, Theory 11, etc.
Not all of them. The Blue Crown started using Expert PCC, most notably for their NOC series. David Blaine's special deck for his performance for interns at Microsoft was made by Expert PCC as well.
Expert and Legends both are worth looking at. You can get a better-quality card for less money.
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Interesting reason to go with USPCC. Minimum print runs, price per deck, etc etc would probably be good things to consider. But hey whatever works for a reason is a workable reason, kind of funny, but a reason none the less. ;)
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Interesting reason to go with USPCC. Minimum print runs, price per deck, etc etc would probably be good things to consider. But hey whatever works for a reason is a workable reason, kind of funny, but a reason none the less. ;)
Haven't made a final decision now. Strongly considering legends after reading up on them (I do not own any legends deck). I just need to hear back from them to make my final decision.
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Interesting reason to go with USPCC. Minimum print runs, price per deck, etc etc would probably be good things to consider. But hey whatever works for a reason is a workable reason, kind of funny, but a reason none the less. ;)
Haven't made a final decision now. Strongly considering legends after reading up on them (I do not own any legends deck). I just need to hear back from them to make my final decision.
I would strongly suggest you try some of the legends deck. I think the only reason why Theory11, D&D, E are still using USPCC is that it is still the biggest card printing company and majority people knows about them.
It might also be safer for them to print it in US, giving them more control over what is happening.
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Haven't made a final decision now. Strongly considering legends after reading up on them (I do not own any legends deck). I just need to hear back from them to make my final decision.
Jay, I worked with LPCC for Jetsetter Playing Cards. The decks came out great. If you have any questions, let me know. Also, (don't mean to sound like a sales guy, not my intent but...) I only have a couple decks left until I receive my final shipment from LPCC. I could shoot you the password to the website so you could purchase a deck and see how they are.
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I'm so excited to show you the Ace of Spade!!
Enjoy!
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I'm so excited to show you the Ace of Spade!!
Enjoy!
So, your printer is in Mexico? Who's doing the work for you?
"Hecho en Mexico" does mean "made in Mexico" in Spanish, after all...
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So, your printer is in Mexico? Who's doing the work for you?
"Hecho en Mexico" does mean "made in Mexico" in Spanish, after all...
I understand the confusion.
The name of the deck is "Hecho en Mexico".
I know, I know, it was made in the U.S. And probably printed in Taiwan or wherever legends is if I go with them. And that may cause confusion
But the heart and idea behind it is Mexican inspired. The designer and I are also both Mexican.
And him and I believe that's just a beautiful name, being in Spanish too.
We'll be making it very clear that hecho in Mexico is the name, not the place it was made.
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So how do the new pips look like? I like the new back design, but I wasn't a big fan of the first card faces, looked more like a children's card game to me. Do you have more pics?
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So how do the new pips look like? I like the new back design, but I wasn't a big fan of the first card faces, looked more like a children's card game to me. Do you have more pics?
All the corner pips are changing to standard. The courts will all be in color, just like the two I posted.
I will post more court cards soon
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Here's two court cards with modified pips (thanks to Don!)
Modified: La India, The Queen of Diamonds, represents the indigenous women of Mexico.
Zapata, The King of Spades, honors a leading figure in the Mexican Revolution
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So, your printer is in Mexico? Who's doing the work for you?
"Hecho en Mexico" does mean "made in Mexico" in Spanish, after all...
I understand the confusion.
The name of the deck is "Hecho en Mexico".
I know, I know, it was made in the U.S. And probably printed in Taiwan or wherever legends is if I go with them. And that may cause confusion
But the heart and idea behind it is Mexican inspired. The designer and I are also both Mexican.
And him and I believe that's just a beautiful name, being in Spanish too.
We'll be making it very clear that hecho in Mexico is the name, not the place it was made.
I'd dodge that name like a wet, sloppy drunk dressed in puke-stained rags. Seriously. You could run into some serious issues with something like that. You wouldn't want your decks stopped at the port by US Customs for mislabeled country of origin.
Legends PCC is headquartered in Hong Kong. They mostly print out of the same plant in Taiwan used by Expert PCC, but they recently started using a second plant located in mainland China, to the best of my knowledge. There's no way on Earth Customs agents would let a product marked "Hecho en Mexico" enter the US after they were clearly manufactured in and shipped from Asia. The labels indicating they weren't made in Mexico would have to be larger than the name of the deck, I would imagine, before they'd even consider letting them in! And that doesn't even begin to cover "truth in advertising" laws... You yank the cork out of that bottle, that genie's going to whup your butt in court and you'll have a lot of pissed-off, empty-handed backers on your hands.
It would be far, far easier to call them "Mexico" or "Pride of Mexico" or almost anything with the word "Mexico" in it that doesn't say it was made in Mexico. You'll trigger a lot of ironic laughter, perhaps, but you won't run into legal issues. "Mexican Design" would be a better name! But if you insist on using "Hecho en Mexico," GET LEGAL ADVICE FIRST. I can't emphasize this enough:
GET LEGAL ADVICE FIRST!
From a licensed lawyer experienced in U.S. Customs law, not anyone else! Not some web page, not some law student, not some paralegal working out of your uncle's criminal law firm. A CUSTOMS LAWYER, PERIOD. Advice from anyone else will be worth the paper it's printed on, nothing more.
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I was worried about that....
New name!!
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Here are the modified suits and pips. Thank you all for always being honest and bringing things to my attention.
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VIVA MEXICO - I like that :) Makes me want to go visit (so that must be a good thing ;) ) Unless a football club (or the restaurant, or the musical) has a patent on the name, I think you're looking good. As Don says, best to do all the groundwork before setting things in stone :)
Pips - nice improvements :) Cornchip/Diamonds looking good, as are the Cacti/Clubs (and Tomato/Hearts).
Avocado/Spades look good, though they are quite similar to 'hearts' in shape (especially when reversed)... How would you feel about adding part of a 'branch' between the two halves for a more 'spady' feel?
*wave*
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Avocado/Spades look good, though they are quite similar to 'hearts' in shape (especially when reversed)... How would you feel about adding part of a 'branch' between the two halves for a more 'spady' feel?
*wave*
Thank you for your kind words!. That is actually the first thing I did and I wasn't crazy about it.
The colors (green vs red) and the pips should help differentiate the two (hearts and spades).
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The new name is far better. It's probably a little too generic to worry about a copyright claim, though you should check into trademarks - in the US. US company on US soil, US laws apply.
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Here are the modified suits and pips. Thank you all for always being honest and bringing things to my attention.
I've been lurking this thread since it's started and haven't posted because Don and others have done a great job steering this into the right direction. The changes that have been made to it thus far are all good.
I must say though that personally, I'm not a fan of the pips being mixed between standard and custom. I'm not sure of any other deck that has done this and maybe it's just me, but it's a bit jarring.
Just my .02c
Keep it coming!
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Here are the modified suits and pips. Thank you all for always being honest and bringing things to my attention.
I've been lurking this thread since it's started and haven't posted because Don and others have done a great job steering this into the right direction. The changes that have been made to it thus far are all good.
I must say though that personally, I'm not a fan of the pips being mixed between standard and custom. I'm not sure of any other deck that has done this and maybe it's just me, but it's a bit jarring.
Just my .02c
Keep it coming!
Thank you for showing interest!
I did agree with a lot of the suggestions Don made and acted on them.
I personally like the standard pips, Malam playing cards did it as well.
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Jokers :)
Campaign will be live Wednesday ! Thank you all for your feedback and support.
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Looking great so far.. cute joker great for kids too.. ;D
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Jokers :)
Campaign will be live Wednesday ! Thank you all for your feedback and support.
If you're using a printer that will allow enough extra cards, I'd suggest making that deck with THREE jokers - two identical jokers with the piñatas intact and one with a broken piñata. I can think of some interesting ways they could be used in a card trick!
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The idea with 3 jokers is great. A reveal in the broken piñata would be cool then.
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Jay, firstly, good luck on your campaign, I am in! :D
Just a quick comment...how would it look if you put the avocado pit below the split avocado so that it looks more like a spade...the pit could be the 'stem' of the spade...just a thought :-\
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Hi, Jay!
A few weeks ago you advised:
don't rush the campaign [on KS]. Slow down and make sure you have a great final product. I say this from experience.
It is a piece of good advice. And exactly for this reason we develop our deck of cards during over a year, use all accessible information, user polls and expert consulting of collectors, professional gamers, magicians etc.
I see you bring improvements during KS campaign (e.g. design of tuck). Did you changed your opinion? Why?
I wish you good luck with your project!