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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => A Cellar of Fine Vintages => Topic started by: variantventures on June 29, 2015, 03:00:53 PM
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(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11659419_698285123651071_2159741280083909771_n.jpg?oh=e4dcbdeb5a129bfd2b82eaf32f6eb84c&oe=561F0099) This image is a 15th Century printers sheet of a deck of cards sometimes referred to as the 'Censored Deck' on the supposition that the missing court figures were deliberately removed to censor them. This sheet, the only evidence of this deck, was held by magnate and collector of old documents Mr. Alvin W. Krech. This sheet was document by W.L. Schreiber in Die Altesten Spielkarten in 1936-ish. That's the last this sheet was heard of. I've tried the museums and collections in New York and haven't found any evidence of this. Some of the Krech collection was broken up for sale but I can't find a record of this sheet being sold. Some of the Krech collection went to the New York Public Library but I haven't found it there. There was a Schreiber (female, possibly a descendant of W.L Schreiber?) who made a substantial donation to the Cary Collection at Yale but I haven't found the sheet there either.
I suspect this sheet made its way into a private collection and I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about where it might be?
Thanks.
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Have you tried asking Simon Wintle or Thierry Depaulis? They have extensive contacts with collectors and historians.
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I'll check with them. I was hoping some of the 52+Joker members would have a lead on this.
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Haven't heard back from Simon, I've never really had any contact with Thierry.
In the meantime I've been trying to track down the descendants of Mr. Krech. I've found the family has made a fair number of donations of materials to libraries and universities around the US but I haven't found the sheet listed in any online resources.
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Haven't heard back from Simon, I've never really had any contact with Thierry.
In the meantime I've been trying to track down the descendants of Mr. Krech. I've found the family has made a fair number of donations of materials to libraries and universities around the US but I haven't found the sheet listed in any online resources.
Simon recently joined this forum as "WoPC". I had a nice chat online with his son recently.
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Interesting deck. Looks like a Switzerland deck. King on a Horse, Queen on a throne. Ober with the suit indicator on the top. Under with the suit indicator on the bottom. I like how the ten card is now a court card. (9-2) Notice the two extra cards on the bottom right. Was that part of the BackOfCard? Maybe that was first triptych Jokers?
Very interesting deck. Yes, this was a scandals deck. Must protect the public by erasing part of this deck. >:( Is the Under of Spades squeezing her tit? Maybe she was a seductive women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_fatale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_fatale) Spades are evil...
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Haven't given up on this. I now probably know more about the family history of the descendants of Alvin W. Krech than they do. :) Given what I've found I believe the sheet of cards is either still in the possession of the family or somewhere in the collections of Yale University. If it still exists.
Shepard Krech, the oldest son of Alvin W. Krech, died in 1969. At that time Yale University acquired a collection of books illustrated by George Cruikshank. Alvin Krech was a noted collector of Cruikshank's work. This indicates to me the collection was probably kept together after Alvin's death in 1928 and broken up in 1969 when Shepard died. It's possible the collection was broken up earlier as the family sold two leaves from a Gutenberg Catholicon in 1939 and they were also in the habit of donating to museums.
I've written to a couple of Shepard's descendants asking if they know what happened to the sheet but haven't heard anything back. I'm hopeful I'll hear something in a few weeks. Realistically I'm going to hear silence, but hope springs eternal.
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Haven't given up on this. I now probably know more about the family history of the descendants of Alvin W. Krech than they do. :) Given what I've found I believe the sheet of cards is either still in the possession of the family or somewhere in the collections of Yale University. If it still exists.
Shepard Krech, the oldest son of Alvin W. Krech, died in 1969. At that time Yale University acquired a collection of books illustrated by George Cruikshank. Alvin Krech was a noted collector of Cruikshank's work. This indicates to me the collection was probably kept together after Alvin's death in 1928 and broken up in 1969 when Shepard died. It's possible the collection was broken up earlier as the family sold two leaves from a Gutenberg Catholicon in 1939 and they were also in the habit of donating to museums.
I've written to a couple of Shepard's descendants asking if they know what happened to the sheet but haven't heard anything back. I'm hopeful I'll hear something in a few weeks. Realistically I'm going to hear silence, but hope springs eternal.
You should upload that image you had in the first post instead of using image links to place it in the message. Your link is broken, the image is gone. Uploaded images don't have links to break.
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I don't remember what exactly was the image posted but I believe it was a German suited deck. Timothy B. Husband is an expert in old German cards and he has put together an old card exhibition in New York at the Met: http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2016/world-in-play (http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2016/world-in-play)
Sigmar Radau is another expert on German cards. If you haven't contacted Depaulis yet, I suggest you might do so. He's the foremost card historian alive today.
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I sent Depaulis a e-mail this morning. I'll update the image in my original post as soon as I have an opportunity to edit it and get it down to an allowable size for the board.
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M. Depaulis replied to me this morning. He had nothing to add regarding the location of this sheet (noting that many of the examples W.L. Shreiber cited are very difficult to locate) but suggested I speak with Sigmar Radau as that worthy has suggested the cards in question are Polish (from Breslau/Wroclaw).
I have heard back from one of the descendants of Mr. Krech who is currently in Africa and has promised to contact me at a later date.
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Interesting deck. Looks like a Switzerland deck. King on a Horse, Queen on a throne. Ober with the suit indicator on the top. Under with the suit indicator on the bottom. I like how the ten card is now a court card. (9-2) Notice the two extra cards on the bottom right. Was that part of the BackOfCard? Maybe that was first triptych Jokers?
Very interesting deck. Yes, this was a scandals deck. Must protect the public by erasing part of this deck. >:( Is the Under of Spades squeezing her tit? Maybe she was a seductive women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_fatale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_fatale) Spades are evil...
Spades are always evil...
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I found records of two auctions featuring items from the Krech Collection. The first, in 1948, was the most promising. The librarians at The Grolier Club have checked the auction record and found no record of the card sheet. They're sending me images of the auction catalog. God bless curators and librarians.
The second auction was in 1970 and the records are in Los Angeles at the Getty Museum. I'm going to try to get someone to go over and take a look.
In a way I'm hoping this sheet doesn't turn up in the auction records. Two of the auction houses I've spoken to have told me they won't provide me with any details about sales information so a record of the sheet being auctioned would likely be a dead end. At least now I can keep searching within the Krech family.
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Interesting deck. Looks like a Switzerland deck. King on a Horse, Queen on a throne. Ober with the suit indicator on the top. Under with the suit indicator on the bottom. I like how the ten card is now a court card. (9-2) Notice the two extra cards on the bottom right. Was that part of the BackOfCard? Maybe that was first triptych Jokers?
Very interesting deck. Yes, this was a scandals deck. Must protect the public by erasing part of this deck. >:( Is the Under of Spades squeezing her tit? Maybe she was a seductive women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_fatale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_fatale) Spades are evil...
Spades are always evil...
Are you talking to yourself again? You might need to get the meds adjusted... ;-)
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Crappity. The Krech collection was broken up amongst his heirs when he died. Back to the family tree charts and tracking down his descendants.
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Many, many years later I still haven't found these. I've determined that it's likely, but not certain, the sheets were inherited by his son Gerald Krech. Gerald emigrated to England, with a brief relocation to Paris prior to WWII, and became a naturalized subject. He died in the Chelsea and Kensington district of London in 1991. The distribution of his estate never went to probate so there are no public records of what happened to it and none of his inheritors could remember the legal firm that handled his estate. He never married and his family and friends network was large and varied. If these cards still exist they are likely sitting in some private collection. Sigh.