Thanks HankMan. I missed MPC. How is their quality?
Wow! that's some crazy pricing for a MPC deck. $15US shipped for an earlybird. About $22US for standard pricing. It's actually more expensive each when you get two. About $46US.
I wish you had done a completed project or two so I could have more confidence as these are awesome cards.I respect that, this is a learning experience for us but heck, we all have to start somewhere. I hope to gain your trust in the future.
Wow! that's some crazy pricing for a MPC deck. $15US shipped for an earlybird. About $22US for standard pricing. It's actually more expensive each when you get two. About $46US...........................Initially, we aim to print 500 decks, half of which will be rewarded through kickstarter. The rest will be enough that we can resell and use to print the decks into the future. That is why the pricing is about $20 AUD. However, if we are funded well enough, we would like to increase the quality as mentioned in our stretch goal and possibly change to a new printer.
..........What printer would everyone recommend that offers fulfilment?
What printer would everyone recommend that offers fulfilment?
I will report back in within a few days to answer any other questions or address and other concerns.
Hello,
Thanks Don and Rob for the advice of LPCC. We are definitely going to look into that.
I did want to clarify in regards to profits. The idea of having half the decks to be resold seems logical to me. That is money that we could invest into a new run of printing. Our idea behind this kickstarter is to be self-sustained.
The artist has a large local and international following, signed items are an essential reward. I do know now that I should have offered add-on decks or something similar at a lower price. However that is part of the learning experience.
Again, I really appreciate everyone's input. We are about half way to our goal, so upgrading to a better printer seems more realistic as a stretch goal.
As regards pricing, what the project costs is the producer's problem not the backers'.
If the producer ends up with a price which is competitive with the pricing of comparable decks on Kickstarter, it will be of no concern to most backers how much profit the producer is making for himself (or not making for himself).
If the price is much lower than comparable decks, astute backers will be concerned that the producer hasn't done his homework, will eventually realize that he is going to lose money, and will abandon the project.
If the price is significantly higher than comparable decks, then potential backers will take their money somewhere else. There are plenty of Kickstarter decks, and most collectors are not so obsessive that they have to collect every deck. Their money will go further backing other decks. The few collectors who are obsessive, and loaded with money, won't suffice to fund the project -- and anyway, even obsessive people can be aggravated by an unreasonably high price.
So, my advice to this producer would be: set the pricing to be like the pricing of all the other successful Kickstarter projects. If that means you can't do the project, then don't. Probably you will be forced to take this advice in the end whether you want to or not, because the project won't fund if you don't.
As regards pricing, what the project costs is the producer's problem not the backers'.
If the producer ends up with a price which is competitive with the pricing of comparable decks on Kickstarter, it will be of no concern to most backers how much profit the producer is making for himself (or not making for himself).
If the price is much lower than comparable decks, astute backers will be concerned that the producer hasn't done his homework, will eventually realize that he is going to lose money, and will abandon the project.
If the price is significantly higher than comparable decks, then potential backers will take their money somewhere else. There are plenty of Kickstarter decks, and most collectors are not so obsessive that they have to collect every deck. Their money will go further backing other decks. The few collectors who are obsessive, and loaded with money, won't suffice to fund the project -- and anyway, even obsessive people can be aggravated by an unreasonably high price.
So, my advice to this producer would be: set the pricing to be like the pricing of all the other successful Kickstarter projects. If that means you can't do the project, then don't. Probably you will be forced to take this advice in the end whether you want to or not, because the project won't fund if you don't.
But there's a flaw in this. There are cases where a producer can indeed produce a deck for a much lower price. When purchasing decks in larger amount, for example, the per-deck costs drop, allowing the producer to charge a lower price, perhaps even below the typical market price for a deck. And what exactly would that typical market price be in the first place? Different decks have different costs associated with their production because of things like the features of the deck itself or the costs of shipping (if they're still included, since now many projects don't include shipping). There'd be no way to compare something like the NOC deck or the Silver edition of the 52 Plus Joker Club deck or the Stranger and Stranger Ultimate deck, if they were offered on Kickstarter.
While it sounds nice on the surface, the suggestion you gave oversimplifies the problem of deck pricing.
As regards pricing, what the project costs is the producer's problem not the backers'.
If the producer ends up with a price which is competitive with the pricing of comparable decks on Kickstarter, it will be of no concern to most backers how much profit the producer is making for himself (or not making for himself).
If the price is much lower than comparable decks, astute backers will be concerned that the producer hasn't done his homework, will eventually realize that he is going to lose money, and will abandon the project.
If the price is significantly higher than comparable decks, then potential backers will take their money somewhere else. There are plenty of Kickstarter decks, and most collectors are not so obsessive that they have to collect every deck. Their money will go further backing other decks. The few collectors who are obsessive, and loaded with money, won't suffice to fund the project -- and anyway, even obsessive people can be aggravated by an unreasonably high price.
So, my advice to this producer would be: set the pricing to be like the pricing of all the other successful Kickstarter projects. If that means you can't do the project, then don't. Probably you will be forced to take this advice in the end whether you want to or not, because the project won't fund if you don't.
But there's a flaw in this. There are cases where a producer can indeed produce a deck for a much lower price. When purchasing decks in larger amount, for example, the per-deck costs drop, allowing the producer to charge a lower price, perhaps even below the typical market price for a deck. And what exactly would that typical market price be in the first place? Different decks have different costs associated with their production because of things like the features of the deck itself or the costs of shipping (if they're still included, since now many projects don't include shipping). There'd be no way to compare something like the NOC deck or the Silver edition of the 52 Plus Joker Club deck or the Stranger and Stranger Ultimate deck, if they were offered on Kickstarter.
While it sounds nice on the surface, the suggestion you gave oversimplifies the problem of deck pricing.
Your points are valid, but they don't really contradict my main point. Unless backers have unlimited funds and unlimited obsession to collect every KS deck, they will tend to allocate the funds they have for buying decks rationally. A deck which is lot more expensive than comparable decks will need to be "more better" (as my son said at 3) than the other decks on some dimension: superior art, a more well-known artist, a more limited run, shiny embossing on the tuck box, holograms, whatever. A producer can come up with any story he likes as to why he needs to price his deck higher, but even if the story is true, it isn't relevant, except to satisfy himself and the Internet that he is a nice guy.. Nice guy or not, In the end the backers will purchase the decks that provide the best price/performance.
A deck by an artist with no better a track record than the others, or with a print run which is not more limited, or which has no special "features' needs to be around the same price as the others, too. If it is the first time out by the artist, less limited, or with a printer thought to be inferior, the deck needs to be cheaper than the others. Or you better hope that backers of Kickstarter deck projects aren't rational.
You have raised some interesting points in regards to collectors.
After this campaign is funded, Fyodor definitely would like to have limited run prints of this and another deck he is developing. We will definitely keep this feedback in mind and produce future decks with the collector in mind. Especially the advice of printers. We are already exploring costing with the current kickstarter to see about adding a new stretch goal to change printers.
In regards to pricing based around the market. We have developed the pricing do to our local market. I understand that this is appealing to a worldwide crowd, but majority of support and the sale of the extra decks will be locally, or at least in Australia. We will expand our targeted demographic into the future.
I would like to compare the pricing to a cost of beer. In our kickstarter, the price of a collection of 54 pieces of artwork that has been developed by the artist for the past 8 years is roughly the same price of a 6 pack of decent beer. The surplus decks will be sold in various shops and galleries for roughly the price of a case of cheap beer.
If we have 250 decks leftover, the amount of money that we can get from that will be enough that we can reprint the decks without asking for help. One goal we have is to not become dependent on crowd funding.
Again, I really appreciate all the feedback, we have wanted to produce the best quality, best feeling, best handling decks. Now that we know that their is a community with such passion about this medium I am certain we can develop something amazing with the more esteemed collector in mind, as opposed to the person who wants a really cool deck of cards.
Do remember, this is our first time doing a project as large as this. Your support and positive attitude can do wonders.
Kickstarter is an easy tool to appeal to our market. If you search kickstarter geographically. We are the second most popular in Australia. Lot's of people fund local project through it. It is relatively simple, we advertise to our local market and tell them we have a kickstarter campaign.
I feel that many people here are displeased as this campaign is not the usual campaign. It is higher cost than you are used to by an artist you are unfamiliar with a printer that does not have the quality you would like. These are all valid points and you have been heard.
I am happy to offer a limited promotion for this forum. If you support us in "Warmest Regards" category, $15 AUD, I'll add a deck with free shipping as well as the postcard to the first 25 people if we get successfully funded. All that I ask is that you send us a message saying you came from the Playingcardforum. I understand there is no way to hold us accountable to this other than trusting me. The offer is their though.
Now, to steer the conversation back to the TeaTime deck, we have been in contact with Expert and LPC. We are interested in LPC, especially, perhaps for the other deck that has been developed, The Devils Hand. In regards to LPC, the paperstock, what is everyones opinion on it. There are three types available, Diamond, Classic, and Emerald. Which is your favourite? Especially in regards to card handling.
I'm not maintaining that prices can't be low without triggering concerns. I'm all for low prices. If I had been more precise, and even more verbose than I am already, I should have said that an unduly low price without any clear reason for it might trigger concerns.
Actually, a low-priced edition will probably trigger concerns anyway, even if the low price is explicable, though for different reasons than I mentioned previously. Because of the typical KS backer's strong preference for highly-limited editions and particular printers, the main avenues for achieving a lower price are pretty much closed off. Jackson Robinson's Silver Arrow experience is a real object lesson: if he can't make a low-priced edition work on Kickstarter, who can?
Master/Diamond is the thinnest stock offered, and is also the longest-lasting (at least until testing on Iron is completed).
I have a quick question. The EPCC website is not working and their facebook has not had a post since April. I can send them a message through facebook, or twitter, but I would prefer to know more about them and have at least an email to contact them with.