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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Design & Development => Topic started by: RandCo on September 29, 2014, 12:34:06 AM
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Hi everyone,
Here is a new deck I am working on. It features interweaving gold and silver bands. The ink colors are red, black, metallic gold and metallic silver.
The court cards are custom illustrations that are a hybrid between the traditional English designs like the classic Bicycle face cards and a semi-realistic depiction of royalty.
The numbers cards use the same design elements as the court cards and the card back.
I am still deciding on the name of the deck.
It will be on Kickstarter with a limited edition of 1,000.
Any suggestions, or votes on which versions you like, would be welcome.
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Thanks for sharing your design with us.
The art's not bad, but something's not right. Maybe I'm looking too close, but it looks like there's lots of little "jaggies" - pixelation - on some of the curves and angles, any line not perfectly horizontal or perpendicular. Perhaps a graphics program upgrade is in order?
I see that you're doing away with the art standard for the courts. Be aware that this will reduce the chances that a poker player will go for using the deck. They love their suicide Kings, one-eyed Jacks, etc. and know which ones are supposed to be which in a standard International deck.
The additional lines drawn through the center of the card are not too bad with the courts, but they're terrible with the spot cards - it's all too busy, lacking elegance and ease of use. On the courts, it actually looks reminiscent of a prison cell. Consider keeping the center circle clear of the "bars", as well as removing the outermost bar frame (the one that cuts into the indices). If you're dead set on keeping the outer bars, consider shrinking the bar pattern a little so it all fits inside of the border - only the indices should be outside if you want them to be easy to read. (Hint: indices should ALWAYS be easy to read.)
The whole bar motif on the faces just looks so cluttered. It's fine for the backs. Though now that I'm on that topic... Consider making a back with a simple white border all around the outer edge, then make your design with all-silver on one back, all-gold on another, to create an easy-to-distinguish "poker pair" of decks. If you insist on having the mixed metallics, use an all-white center for one deck and an all-black center for the other. The backs should be really simple to tell apart from each other, insuring that a card from one deck doesn't accidentally get stuck in the other deck.
Why on Earth would you so severely limit the number of decks made?
You have good artwork for the courts, the indices and the pips, but it all just looks so boxed in and cluttered with all those bars all over the place. Consider a simpler face design.
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All those bars are cluttering up your face cards. I think it's probably too much, especially on your courts, number cards, and aces. Font is a bit long on your indices but it's not bad. I like your pips and courts when I block out the bars. Card backs, lots of bars. How come you want to incarcerate your deck? I vote for option E. The other one you were thinking about without the bars and circles but didn't make. Just being honest, those bars and circles are taking away from all the other work you've done. Which is quite nice. Can we see a mock up without the bars etc? I think they'd look very nice.
Also wondering why you're only wanting to do a 1,000 deck run.
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Thank you for your feedback Don and Fes.
Everyone has commented about the 'prison bars' effect on this and the other deck design forum. Good point, the black lines with solid color is too strong. The bars are supposed to just be a border effect.
On the face cards, I am going for a variation on the standard face cards with graphic lines and a standardized pose, etc. I have one-eyed Jacks, a one-eyed King, and a King of Diamonds with an axe. I skipped the Suicide King, but if I'm doing the other standards I should do that one as well. I will change the design to have the sword passing behind his head.
As far as the 1,000 limited edition, I want to have 1,000 printed by EPCC, but I see there is no reason to make it a limited edition. I am still trying to figure out the marketing of custom cards.
Here is the current version of the design. Further suggestions are still welcome of course.
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Thank you for your feedback Don and Fes.
Everyone has commented about the 'prison bars' effect on this and the other deck design forum. Good point, the black lines with solid color is too strong. The bars are supposed to just be a border effect.
On the face cards, I am going for a variation on the standard face cards with graphic lines and a standardized pose, etc. I have one-eyed Jacks, a one-eyed King, and a King of Diamonds with an axe. I skipped the Suicide King, but if I'm doing the other standards I should do that one as well. I will change the design to have the sword passing behind his head.
As far as the 1,000 limited edition, I want to have 1,000 printed by EPCC, but I see there is no reason to make it a limited edition. I am still trying to figure out the marketing of custom cards.
Here is the current version of the design. Further suggestions are still welcome of course.
It's an improvement, but it's still too much on the faces. Most especially, look at the indices - there should be nothing interfering with the indices on a good, clear, easy-to-read pack of cards. Indices are usually left out of the "body" of the design, even isolated in a white space all their own. There was a trend for a while with backgrounds, but the trend is fading a bit.
Try this - remove the bars from the spot cards, anything from 10 down. Isolate the indices - draw a white rectangle to serve as their background.
BTW - have you looked at this design completely devoid of bars on the faces? Seriously, they could stand completely on their own, without the need for a background distraction. Cluttering the design with those bars distracts from the good quality artwork you did on the pips and the courts. Print out a card or two completely free of any background elements and then try to tell me it doesn't look better.
I've noticed a LOT of decks where people go out of their way to make their design "unique", completely neglecting the concept that "uniqueness" alone doesn't make for a quality deck of cards. You have some really good artwork here and you should showcase that instead of making distractions on all of the cards. I think you'd find a warmer reception for them with little to no background elements.
Oh, and the backs look much nicer as well! I'd suggest putting a white border around the "black" deck, though. There's a number of reasons why it would work better, too long for me to think about right now. Either that or make the faces with dark backgrounds to match, making your light and dark decks comparable to something like the Arcane decks in white and black. The border idea is better, though - it keeps the decks as a good poker pair, giving you more potential buyers.
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What if you were to just completely remove the verrical bars within the circle? The original design with open circles would probably look stellar. And maybe create a nice break where the indice is.
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I still don't get the whole bars thing, I think they take away from the card faces. I'd like to see the black courts in a color other than red. :)
Also, the white back is much better than the black back in my opinion.
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Hi Don and everyone,
Thanks for your input, it has really improved the design.
Here is the latest design for the spot cards and the card backs.
The border on the court cards will be the same, but without the 3 lines in the middle. I will be posting the revised court cards soon.
I am taking your advice Don and considering making 2 decks with the switched silver and gold backs to make a poker set.
I am not making any more black versions of the back, I'm assuming the solid black running up to the edges is not recommended because it could make it easy to mark the cards, or flaws or scratches could be used as unintentional marks. I'm still learning some of the ins and outs of card design.
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I really like the direction you're going with the cardbacks, they're much more interesting and easier to look at. It's good to see you flexing your creativity over the first version you posted here. :)
The number cards feel much better, but I can't help but still think something isn't right there.... They're just a bit, off, somehow. Have you considered maybe dropping the half moon bars and incorporating your ring idea into the borders? Just tossing out a though, I can't put my finger on what it is that's keeping me from enjoying them as much as I should. The pips are clean and nice, indices are good, but the overall card is still... off, to my eyes. Much better though. :)
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This is certainly a case where less is looking a lot like more! The backs have shaped up nicely.
The number cards will look better minus the bars in the center.
A black-edged card has a few drawbacks, but not so much to do with marking. The black is inked onto a white surface, so when the card edge begins to chip, it's a lot more visible and looks awful. Having a black back edge and a white face edge has other drawbacks as well, largely having to do with magic trick uses, but it's a minor consideration.
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Here is the Suicide King and new Aces. The deck was initially just influenced by the Art Deco style, now I am going to make it fully an Art Deco themed deck. The court cards will be like this card with the artwork more geometric and flattened. The axe is based on the KoH holding one in the early French cards, all of the weapons held by the Kings and Jacks are based on the Rouen Pattern.
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Here is the Suicide King and new Aces. The deck was initially just influenced by the Art Deco style, now I am going to make it fully an Art Deco themed deck. The court cards will be like this card with the artwork more geometric and flattened. The axe is based on the KoH holding one in the early French cards, all of the weapons held by the Kings and Jacks are based on the Rouen Pattern.
This is looking a LOT better. Take the circles out of the spade on the Ace of Spades. It makes it look a little like an Ace of Clubs. Alternately, you can alter the scale of the pattern to reduce that similarity.
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Here is the latest version with both backs and 3 of the queens. It is more of an Art Deco styled deck now. I’m still deciding on a title for the deck.
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Here are the backs.
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Here is the latest version with both backs and 3 of the queens. It is more of an Art Deco styled deck now. I’m still deciding on a title for the deck.
I see you're still sporting the circles on the Ace of Spades. Unfortunately, at first glance the spade actually looks like a club because of them! Perhaps putting the spade pip in front of them would look better?
I know your deck is all about rockin' the silver and gold, but using silver for everyone's hair makes them all look not just old but too homogenous. You can mix it up a little using colors you're already using - black, red and gold are well-suited for hair colors!
The backs are fine.
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Thanks Don, good advice as usual. A tint of red and gold would make a good hair color. I will also be revising the aces.
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I like the bars, I like that your deck looks different. IMO This reminds me of Arcana deck http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=6338.msg102697 where too many details were gone. I still backed it, but the original concept was watered down and lacked the things that made it special. If you are going for traditional then remove the bars, if you are going for different then leave them in.
The second design is the design I like the best.
Why the limited edition?
Also well done, looks really great!!!
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Thank you for your comments Rose. I am trying to find a balance between artistic complexity and playing function in this deck. I am also trying make this design a balance between an "art deck" and a traditional deck. Finding the right balance is hard and the comments of everyone on this thread have really helped me.
As far as the limited edition of 1,000 idea, after reading Don's "Is it Just Me, or is Something Wrong?" topic, I see that a limited edition for this deck is ridiculous. I'm new to card design and have a lot to learn about custom playing card marketing.
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This deck design is almost final now. I will be putting it on Kickstarter soon. I had to postpone working on it for almost 2 months because I was working on other projects. Once again I would appreciate any critique or comments.
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I think your court cards look much better now without as many "bars' as others suggested. Looking good!
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Here is an update of the aces. This design relates to the suit designs within the back design. Do you prefer this or the simpler aces above?
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Here is an update of the aces. This design relates to the suit designs within the back design. Do you prefer this or the simpler aces above?
These look nice and clearly identifiable. Are you going to use metallic inks for the lines? If so, this might be just a wee bit too much - the tiny pips will be overwhelmed with that much gold and silver. Consider making all of your pips large.
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Thanks again for the input Don. The pips in the middle relate to the design on the number cards. I had them at the same size as the pips on the number cards, but you're right, they look better larger. The design is more balanced now. You definitely have a good eye for card design.
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Thanks again for the input Don. The pips in the middle relate to the design on the number cards. I had them at the same size as the pips on the number cards, but you're right, they look better larger. The design is more balanced now. You definitely have a good eye for card design.
Thanks. I try! With all the line work around it in metallic inks, the pips really needed to be bigger on the Aces in order to stand out. The other spot cards have less line work, thus don't need the extra size in the pips.
My personal opinion is that Ace pips always look better when they're a bit larger. It's one of the things I like about the Phoenix (http://card-shark.de/index.cfm?page=8&lang=en) decks.
Have you noticed that for the pip outlines you drew, the heart is 2/3rd the height of the spade and diamond and about 3/4ths the height of the club? The other pips are centered while the heart is significantly below center due to the geometric pattern you wanted all of the pips to conform to.
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I am thinking about having 2 gaff cards in the deck. The first gaff card would be a double back, I think this would look good as the first card on the uncut sheet. Here are 2 possibilities for the second gaff card, which do you think would be best?
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I am thinking about having 2 gaff cards in the deck. The first gaff card would be a double back, I think this would look good as the first card on the uncut sheet. Here are 2 possibilities for the second gaff card, which do you think would be best?
I think the 11 of clubs gaff would be pretty neat but not practical. You'd need another gaff to pair with it e.g a 10 of clubs missing a pip to show that you've "transferred" a single pip to produce an 11 of clubs card during a magic trick. So i'm going with the "blank" faced card :D
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I am thinking about having 2 gaff cards in the deck. The first gaff card would be a double back, I think this would look good as the first card on the uncut sheet. Here are 2 possibilities for the second gaff card, which do you think would be best?
Let me ask you an even better question: how much use do you think a limited-edition deck such as this will see i the hands of a performing magician? If I'm not mistaken, the answer is "not much," so perhaps something else is in order. In fact, if you print with a company such as Expert or Legends, you won't HAVE extra cards - their uncuts have only 54 cards on them, so you'd have to sacrifice Jokers to make gaffs.
If you have extras, consider some combination of the ideas I'm going to list - be it one and another or two of the same:
1) an advertising card, listing your company and mentioning your projects both current and future.
2) an advertising card that some lucky backer will pay a top-dollar tier for, in order to advertise his or her company.
3) a "cut card" of a solid color on both sides, different enough from the rest of the deck that it stands out like a sore thumb (poker players use cut cards a lot).
4) a card listing general poker rules on one side, hand ranks on the other
5) a "replacement card" - a card with blanks in the right places, to be used as a substitute in the event the deck winds up with a missing or damaged card after some use. Pull out the damaged card, drop in the substitute, and figure out some means by which the card is easily identifiable. Two good examples of this type of card come from the Hornets by Circle City Card Co. and the Misc. Goods deck from Pedale Design.
Re the ad cards, you have the option of keeping a side for yourself and selling the other side to someone else - or selling each side to a different company. Find the right price point and that tier alone can give your project a serious shot in the arm.
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Good suggestions Don. I didn't realize an EPCC deck was 54 cards though, so no gaffs or extras, just jokers. The deck will be printed by EPCC if it is funded. I have been in contact with them and received an estimate and templates. I forgot to request an uncut sheet template, I sent them an email request for that today. If I do a Bicycle deck in the future with 56 cards, I now have some good ideas for the extra cards.
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I am thinking about having 2 gaff cards in the deck. The first gaff card would be a double back, I think this would look good as the first card on the uncut sheet. Here are 2 possibilities for the second gaff card, which do you think would be best?
I think the 11 of clubs gaff would be pretty neat but not practical. You'd need another gaff to pair with it e.g a 10 of clubs missing a pip to show that you've "transferred" a single pip to produce an 11 of clubs card during a magic trick. So i'm going with the "blank" faced card :D
There's been many similar gaffs that never required a second card. Instead of a pip moving between cards, there's a trick that "merges" two cards into one, i.e., a 6 of Hearts and a 7 of Hearts become a 13 of Hearts.
Good suggestions Don. I didn't realize an EPCC deck was 54 cards though, so no gaffs or extras, just jokers. The deck will be printed by EPCC if it is funded. I have been in contact with them and received an estimate and templates. I forgot to request an uncut sheet template, I sent them an email request for that today. If I do a Bicycle deck in the future with 56 cards, I now have some good ideas for the extra cards.
You can actually have more cards - I recall a Legends deck that was on KS, using overfunding goals to add additional cards to the deck. But you'd literally be running off an extra sheet of cards with any extra cards you'd want to include, and there's a price for doing that. Check with them - I'm not sure how expensive or inexpensive it would be.
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This custom deck is now live on Kickstarter.
Thanks to everyone who commented with critique on this design, especially Don! You definitely contributed in a serious way to the design process and helped me to create this deck.
Here is the link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/627138913/moderne-art-deco-playing-cards
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This custom deck is now live on Kickstarter.
Thanks to everyone who commented with critique on this design, especially Don! You definitely contributed in a serious way to the design process and helped me to create this deck.
Here is the link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/627138913/moderne-art-deco-playing-cards
Thanks - just backed for a two-deck early bird!
Start a new topic for your deck in the Playing Card Plethora.
EDIT: Fes beat you to it!