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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => A Cellar of Fine Vintages => Topic started by: Will W. on July 12, 2014, 07:51:53 PM
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I did not want to start another topic so I figured while I have your attention on this thread maybe you could answer another question, well maybe two.
I have looked and looked but I can't figure out how to date a deck of Thomas de la rue cards from England. I have figured out how to narrow it down by the graphic on the ace of spades but 1862 - 1950 is not quite as close a figure as I would like to see.
As for the other question. The Hochman encyclopedia is only American cards?
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First, don't be afraid to make a new topic. It makes it easier to find the information later when it's titled under the right topic.
Hochman's covers only American made decks up to 1950. After that date, I've been told, there was such an explosion of decks that it would be nearly impossible to track them all - even today, tracking just custom-made decks is a challenge; commercially-made off-the-shelf decks are a Herculean feat and it becomes difficult to separate foreign-made from US-made since the marketplace has become far more global than it was 64 years ago.
To date a de la Rue... Have you tried World of Playing Cards (http://www.wopc.co.uk/)? It's an online resource managed by the International Playing Card Society and is based in the UK - far likelier to have information on a British deck.
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I found the info about the ace of spades illustrations on WoPC but the context beyond that was very limited.
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Does the IPCS have a message board similar to this one? The information might be there.
Otherwise, in time, hopefully a 52+J member will be able to produce the information you need. I wish I could help, but I know practically nothing about British decks. We also have some Brits on the board (both in and not in 52+J) who might help.
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I did not want to start another topic so I figured while I have your attention on this thread maybe you could answer another question, well maybe two.
I have looked and looked but I can't figure out how to date a deck of Thomas de la rue cards from England. I have figured out how to narrow it down by the graphic on the ace of spades but 1862 - 1950 is not quite as close a figure as I would like to see.
As for the other question. The Hochman encyclopedia is only American cards?
If you scan the Ace we can get reasonably close to the date.
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The IPCS requires a paid membership, just under $50 for a year, but no guarantee as to whether or not the information is there. I have been known to gamble playing cards but not while researching them. I have not been deterred though, I have continued my search but I believe my best bet is that someone might stumble upon this topic who can enlighten me.
I will post a pic of the ace shortly.
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Ace of Spades
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Ace of Spades
With "LTD" on the end of the name means it's post-1950, but beyond that it's tough. I'll figure it out for you and post another response.
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Awesome. Thanks Mike.
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Awesome. Thanks Mike.
That style AoS was used a lot, from about 1935 to 1957 and a very similar one by Waddington's. I can't really get any more specific, unfortunately. Sometimes the curls in the style of the "Q" on the Queens is helpful (and sometimes not)...
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Awesome. Thanks Mike.
That style AoS was used a lot, from about 1935 to 1957 and a very similar one by Waddington's. I can't really get any more specific, unfortunately. Sometimes the curls in the style of the "Q" on the Queens is helpful (and sometimes not)...
If the information you've provided thus far is accurate, you've actually narrowed down the possible range by quite a bit. The AoS style was in use from '35 to '57, but the "Ltd." on the AoS wasn't used until after '50, meaning this deck was made between 1951 and 1957! It's a much closer estimate than he was able to derive originally.
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Ah, forgot to mention - 1947 is correct, but still narrows it to right at a 10 year period.
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Awesome. Thanks Mike.
That style AoS was used a lot, from about 1935 to 1957 and a very similar one by Waddington's. I can't really get any more specific, unfortunately. Sometimes the curls in the style of the "Q" on the Queens is helpful (and sometimes not)...
You guys have narrowed it down from a 90 year span to within 10. Thats great. I will post a picture of the queens as soon as I get home if you think it might further help pinpoint the date.
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Sounds good, but remember that I said "unfortunately it doesn't always work". Some decks reused older fonts and it's impossible to tell the precise date on those. The ones that used their standard letter format for the courts can be narrowed down to a 5-20 year period in general and we're already mostly at that point.
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Sounds good, but remember that I said "unfortunately it doesn't always work". Some decks reused older fonts and it's impossible to tell the precise date on those. The ones that used their standard letter format for the courts can be narrowed down to a 5-20 year period in general and we're already mostly at that point.
Well, since the topic is about dating a de la Rue deck, why not tell us all the features we should be looking for when attempting to do so? Pass on the knowledge to the rest of us! :))
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Not a very good pic, but here it is.... The Queen.
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Hi Stircrazy
You can find an indices guide here:
http://kenlodge.blogspot.ca/2012/07/aids-to-dating-and-beware-of-ebay.html
I'm afraid it won't really narrow down the date any further, but it confirms the previous findings.
Also info there about company addresses and aces that can help with these old British decks.
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Thanks Dazzleguts!! That was a good read. Some useful information.
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Glad it was helpful.
You might find these interesting as well:
Peter Endebrock's Playing Card Pages (excellent tax stamp dating)
http://www.endebrock.de/pers-home.html
World Web Playing Card Museum
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/
White Knuckle Playing cards - White Knuckles Playing cards co. of Australia
http://whiteknucklecards.com/history/index.html
And this book:
Playing Cards (The Fournier Museum catalogue)
subtitle: General History From Their Creation to the Present Day
by Felix Alfaro Fournier
This is a multi-volume catalogue of international playing cards from the large collection of the Fournier Playing Cards Museum in Alava, Spain. This collection includes the De La Rue collection so there are many British cards. Volumes one and two are available in English, as a box set or separately. The first volume has 4,000 colour pictures with brief write-ups on 2,000 decks. There are some errors in the information given so it is best to confirm with other sources. The first volume was published in 1982, with 344 pages. The second volume is much slimmer and was published in 1988 to catalogue the cards added to the collection since the first volume was written. Same goes for all subsequent volumes, but they are only available in Spanish, if you can find them at all.