PlayingCardForum.com - A Discourse For Playing Cards
Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: badpete69 on April 22, 2014, 11:47:57 AM
-
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/benjitaylor/icon-playing-cards (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/benjitaylor/icon-playing-cards)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/754/565/593d5ed5904c42815803ee4353507106_large.jpg?1394906513)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/758/354/b7b00122cf17470433d21b80513a820f_large.jpg?1395003343)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/754/139/8931647b08a2539a57f39993657cb95b_large.jpg?1394897459)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/754/287/82601b106f7830a3635222af410a5f8e_large.jpg?1394900445)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/754/143/fde2024c85732554732d0941d826c264_large.jpg?1394897551)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/754/162/8bf0dd66176133a1621813d32d715253_large.jpg?1394897881)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/755/856/47fe628605467d75f6b915be84e3b5a3_large.jpg?1394931739)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/755/858/3f8d9ef5a664fe9ca82418857d7e6099_large.jpg?1394931759)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/814/206/c15565d25361e0aa5d592282640e4e1b_large.jpg?1396184884)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/878/446/6620ddb44d04e35eae4c30c91daa5a98_large.png?1397502932)
-
Pretty unique and simple. I met Benji a couple weeks ago at Magic-Con and was impressed with his cardistry and his design skills. Very smart and very honest kid. Happy to see his Kickstarter launched and to see just how well done it is for a kid that is only 14!
I backed it this morning, hope to see this project successfully funded!
-
I'd like to know how or who is fulfilling his decks should it get funded.
-
To me, the cards are really just too expensive. He drew up a conversion chart for US backers, but the costs listed were still kind of high.
$16 for a single deck
$14 each for two decks
$30 for a T-shirt
$70 for a Porper clip
$133 for an AIP bottle
That AIP is about a third higher than the normal price. I can get a Bicycle Rider Back AIP for $100 and a Red Artifice AIP recently sold for $115.10, or about $140 including the postage - just $7 less than a deck from a cardist guy in the UK. And $70 for a Porper, even a customized one like this, is HIGH. The deck works out to be more expensive than something from Jackson Robinson, Paul Carpenter, Randy Butterfield, Uusi, etc. - more expensive than almost all the other decks ever offered on KS.
-
I guess it depends where your buying this deck from. For me this is good value. I actually think he's offering them at a good price. £27 for 6 decks is cheap considering what European collectors normally have to pay. Granted they're a very std deck with no frills but it still seem a good price for me.
It's the old debate. Decks designed/marketed in the US are always expensive for European buyers because of shipping costs.
I guess this has been reversed for this release as it's a UK led project.
-
I guess it depends where your buying this deck from. For me this is good value. I actually think he's offering them at a good price. £27 for 6 decks is cheap considering what European collectors normally have to pay. Granted they're a very std deck with no frills but it still seem a good price for me.
It's the old debate. Decks designed/marketed in the US are always expensive for European buyers because of shipping costs.
I guess this has been reversed for this release as it's a UK led project.
I might agree with that, but I seem to recall there's been other UK projects that weren't quite this costly. Am I wrong?
-
With the recent surges of extremely lazy minimalist decks, it's refreshing to see something actually interesting and creative.
The price is just a bit off-putting.
-
I guess it depends where your buying this deck from. For me this is good value. I actually think he's offering them at a good price. £27 for 6 decks is cheap considering what European collectors normally have to pay. Granted they're a very std deck with no frills but it still seem a good price for me.
It's the old debate. Decks designed/marketed in the US are always expensive for European buyers because of shipping costs.
I guess this has been reversed for this release as it's a UK led project.
I might agree with that, but I seem to recall there's been other UK projects that weren't quite this costly. Am I wrong?
I only know the Empire Deck cost more per deck. I don't really recall too many UK projects though.
I actually quite like the simplicity of this deck. I also think it looks kinda cute in a bottle.
-
I only know the Empire Deck cost more per deck. I don't really recall too many UK projects though.
I actually quite like the simplicity of this deck. I also think it looks kinda cute in a bottle.
Makes it tougher to shuffle, though... :))
The Empire deck was about the same price - 10 GBP for US customers, more for non-US. But Lee McKenzie is a very popular and experienced designer. It's like comparing an mid-career Picasso to an early-career Boyer... :))
-
Not to mention that the Empire deck was a full custom deck, if memory serves correctly.
I do not believe this project is a full custom deck.
Just agreeing with Don that you can't really compare the two.
-
Well this was funded, somehow managing to get about 3000 pounds over night and with 1 kickstarter newbie backing it 4 times, which kind of worries me a bit.
-
That is a lot of money for a deck. The back design is great for a 14 year old, I just think you should get more for your money at that price.
-
I'd probably get these rather than Fontaines.
-
The back design is good for any age. Fresh.
-
Well this was funded, somehow managing to get about 3000 pounds over night and with 1 kickstarter newbie backing it 4 times, which kind of worries me a bit.
What do you mean, one KS newbie backing four times? Four accounts? Bumping their investment three times on top of the initial investment? Please explain your statement so it makes more sense. And why does this worry you? Did you invest in this deck as well?
-
Well, I see that someone named Tay backed this 4 times among the earliest backers, and Tay hasn't backed anything else.
But then again Emmanual Jose and Mike R. have backed this too...
The part of the description I like best is:
I should add that my whole family, especially my Dad, will be supervising this project and helping me to make sure everything runs smoothly during the whole process.
-
I noticed the names in question:
Dylan Tay (with photo)
Dylan Tay (without photo)
Tay Cheng Hong
Dylan Tay Cheng Hong
The only photo is the one Dylan Tay noted above, which is of a kid standing in what appears to be an office building or a building lobby, wearing a hooded sweatshirt, hood raised, and a Guy Fawkes mask.
It's unusual, but in itself, not entirely bizarre. Assuming there is a Dylan Tay Cheng Hong using all four identities, it's not beyond belief that he's registered four different accounts for the purposes of taking advantage of things like early bird offers and limited rewards - why mess with add-ons when you can just order as another "person", right?
There's a lot - a LOT - of noteworthy and recognizable names backing this project, not the least of which being Art of Play - yes, that's Dan and Dave Buck. While Victor's implying a scam, I'm inclined to doubt it.
Now as far as this guy being a kid - it's not exactly been a secret. He's had another project, and it was dead clear in that video that he's a high schooler at best. It doesn't render him incapable of fulfilling the project, and he appears to have planned things so the decks should be completed and ready to ship while he's still on summer break. I only hope he realizes the amount of work that he'll be wading through when that time comes. But it sounds like he's got a "support network" in the form of his family, so he should be OK. I can think of far more projects where one lone guy got in over his head and never completed fulfillment than I can ones that were created by a kid operating under the supervision of his dad.
-
I was trying to imply a scam, just a bit concerned that a project which had been sitting at 4000 pounds for some time all of sudden got funded over night, with over 3000 pounds, that doesn't usually happen.
You could be right about the Tay guy but I have no idea of knowing when he pledged, if it was recent or not. I do know someone that claims he is a friend of theirs and was buying 4 bricks for friends, so I guess he's ok.
But the sudden overnight jump in funding is mildly suspicious at the very least. And since Benji never responded to my comment regarding it, even more so.
-
I was trying to imply a scam, just a bit concerned that a project which had been sitting at 4000 pounds for some time all of sudden got funded over night, with over 3000 pounds, that doesn't usually happen.
You could be right about the Tay guy but I have no idea of knowing when he pledged, if it was recent or not. I do know someone that claims he is a friend of theirs and was buying 4 bricks for friends, so I guess he's ok.
But the sudden overnight jump in funding is mildly suspicious at the very least. And since Benji never responded to my comment regarding it, even more so.
Well if that's the case, Victor, then perhaps you should report it to Kickstarter? It's entirely possible that a violation of their rules took place and the deck is partially supported by pledges made by the creator under assumed names. Though I'd have to say, if they are assumed names, they're among the worst I've seen...
-
As someone who's helped out on the back end of things for Kickstarter, it's definitely not too unusual for multiple accounts. I've seen a case of someone with up to 8 accounts before to grab limited edition/early bird specials. It's pretty crazy, in my mind, but if someone is willing to go through with the effort and have money to burn, it's up to them.
As for that 4 screen names and that 4000 pounds, I think unless there's evidence who knows if it's just a random big spender that came in last minute. It could equally some 3rd party wholesaler who wanted the help and putting in that cash via Kickstarter was the way to ensure it got funded.
But like Don said, by all means report it if you thing it's suspicious especially if you pledged for the deck.
-
As someone who's helped out on the back end of things for Kickstarter, it's definitely not too unusual for multiple accounts. I've seen a case of someone with up to 8 accounts before to grab limited edition/early bird specials. It's pretty crazy, in my mind, but if someone is willing to go through with the effort and have money to burn, it's up to them.
As for that 4 screen names and that 4000 pounds, I think unless there's evidence who knows if it's just a random big spender that came in last minute. It could equally some 3rd party wholesaler who wanted the help and putting in that cash via Kickstarter was the way to ensure it got funded.
But like Don said, by all means report it if you thing it's suspicious especially if you pledged for the deck.
It is concerning that of the four accounts, they all have similar names that could possibly be variants of the creator's name, and of the one account with a photo, it could be the creator in a mask as he would fit the general build (of course, so do millions of other people, but KS could easily sort it out with tracking of IP addresses and sources of payment).
-
As someone who's helped out on the back end of things for Kickstarter, it's definitely not too unusual for multiple accounts. I've seen a case of someone with up to 8 accounts before to grab limited edition/early bird specials. It's pretty crazy, in my mind, but if someone is willing to go through with the effort and have money to burn, it's up to them.
As for that 4 screen names and that 4000 pounds, I think unless there's evidence who knows if it's just a random big spender that came in last minute. It could equally some 3rd party wholesaler who wanted the help and putting in that cash via Kickstarter was the way to ensure it got funded.
But like Don said, by all means report it if you thing it's suspicious especially if you pledged for the deck.
It is concerning that of the four accounts, they all have similar names that could possibly be variants of the creator's name, and of the one account with a photo, it could be the creator in a mask as he would fit the general build (of course, so do millions of other people, but KS could easily sort it out with tracking of IP addresses and sources of payment).
Okay .. now that's a bit worrying.
-
Some of you need to stop complaining about price. Anyone outside the US has to deal with all the time, and not just on KS. You know it costs more to ship a deck of cards from DD/T11/E/BC than the cards themselves for customers outside the US?
With regards to the £3,000 overnight funding, thats what the any amount pledge is for. Maybe someone just likes the cards, the boy and wants the project to be funded. Maybe it received some press, it could be anything but I don't think the act of an overnight increase is suspicious, it's what KS is all about....
As far as the cards, I think they're interesting and quite nice. I would pledge for a deck if there were any from that bracket left.
-
It is nicely done. I admire minimalism when its done right. 14 years old, that is impressive. I doubt he is alone though. Mom/Dad are likely acting art directors to sign-off on it before it goes to print.
I saw the photo of the AIP bottle. Just wondering, how hard do you think it is to get Jamie D. Grant to make a few AIP bottles for a Kickstarter project? I would assume Jamie gets to pick and choose which decks he works with? The fact this kid is able to offer AIP really says something about the support he is already getting from the community.
-
Some of you need to stop complaining about price. Anyone outside the US has to deal with all the time, and not just on KS. You know it costs more to ship a deck of cards from DD/T11/E/BC than the cards themselves for customers outside the US?
With regards to the £3,000 overnight funding, thats what the any amount pledge is for. Maybe someone just likes the cards, the boy and wants the project to be funded. Maybe it received some press, it could be anything but I don't think the act of an overnight increase is suspicious, it's what KS is all about....
As far as the cards, I think they're interesting and quite nice. I would pledge for a deck if there were any from that bracket left.
Have you tried using a shipment consolidation company? You can send multiple shipments to their US address, then have them combined into a single shipment to you in your country. You'll usually save a good deal in shipping/handling charges. Search the older topics, it's been discussed a few times and there's been some recommendations and reviews.
Formula - the funding curve for this project is very much abnormal. It started at about 2K GBP, leveled off very quickly at about 4K GBP, stayed flat for nearly three weeks, then suddenly, in a two-day span, for no special reason and not tied to any update of any kind, the deck spikes by about 3K GBP and reaches goal of 7,000 pounds. It's not like there was some big trend following it, either - it immediately went completely flat all over again, where it's been for the past five days.
Look at the statistics yourself and you tell me that something doesn't smell a bit rotten in Denmark...
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/benjitaylor/icon-playing-cards/
-
There doesn't need to be a big trend following it, it can take 1 person. £3k is less than pocket change to some people. I personally don't find it to be suspicious activity.
-
There doesn't need to be a big trend following it, it can take 1 person. £3k is less than pocket change to some people. I personally don't find it to be suspicious activity.
I think the problem is that spike might be coming from the same source using different accounts (as mentioned). If the funding from those backers falls short, the entire project fails despite kickstarter saying successfully funded. I would feel a bit more comfortable knowing there was more consistent backing for longer periods of time.
Like I also mentioned before, based on what I see (AIP) this project has some strong industry internal support that could be what's spiking and funding of this project. D&D has never been shy about backing projects. It would make a nice addition to AoP.
-
Isnt the saying "If its too good to be true, it probably is."
Is it worth the risk ? Im not answering that question for you, ask yourself.
-
Hey everyone, Benji here! First of all, sorry for the very late reply, I would of liked to have jumped on sooner but as you can imagine I have been pretty busy recently. This seems like a cool forum! You now all have my full attention and I would like to try and address everything I can that has been mentioned.
I would like to thank of all of you for all of your compliments and also criticism. Everything is constructive and I take all of your thoughts and comments into account. I would like to first talk about the issue involved with Dylan. I would like to stress that there is nothing remotely strange about what he has chosen to do here. Dylan wanted to back 4 bricks and did not realise that you could just add the money onto your first pledge so instead he created 4 separate accounts and sent me a message when he did it to explain. Here it is - http://prntscr.com/3ko861 -
I am sorry I couldn't address this sooner as I know this could be perceived as somewhat sketchy and that it can make ones head spin in circles trying to work it out but it really is that simple.
Now about me and the project. There is nothing I am hiding here and scamming anybody is completely out of the question. I am 15 years old, I spent 8 months working on this project because I love the idea of having my own deck. I put it on Kickstarter and asked for the minimum amount I needed to cover all my costs, no less, no more. I use Kickstarter all the time to back other projects and have connected my public Facebook profile to avoid people thinking this is any type of scam. You will have to take my word on this matter.
In terms of the sudden jump. A lot of this was actually pledged by a good friend at Pure Imagination Projects in the hope of selling them after. He believes in the project and has followed it since the beginning. It is very generous and I really cannot thank him enough.
I hope this answers most of the questions /issues in this thread and in messages and comments I have received outside of it. I have posted this on here and also on United Cardists as there is a similar thread going on over there. If you have any more questions or comments please don't be afraid to ask and I will try and get back to you ASAP.
Thanks so much,
Benji
-
Welcome to the forums, Benji, and congratulations on getting the deck funded! I have no doubt in your sincerity, but I want to give you one little piece of advice - keep up the communication with the backers. You might run into problems along the way that can delay the delivery to the backers, but keep them informed regularly (even if there's really nothing new to tell them) and most people will be OK with it. I wish you all the best.
-
There doesn't need to be a big trend following it, it can take 1 person. £3k is less than pocket change to some people. I personally don't find it to be suspicious activity.
The kind of people who think that £3,000 is pocket change are not usually the kind of people who microfund something. They simply FUND it, period.
Benji, I'm glad that you decided to stop by and illuminate things for us a little. Good luck.
-
There doesn't need to be a big trend following it, it can take 1 person. £3k is less than pocket change to some people. I personally don't find it to be suspicious activity.
The kind of people who think that £3,000 is pocket change are not usually the kind of people who microfund something. They simply FUND it, period.
That's a very bold generalisation. A wrong one at that.
-
There doesn't need to be a big trend following it, it can take 1 person. £3k is less than pocket change to some people. I personally don't find it to be suspicious activity.
The kind of people who think that £3,000 is pocket change are not usually the kind of people who microfund something. They simply FUND it, period.
That's a very bold generalisation. A wrong one at that.
Do you know many people for whom £3,000 is pocket change?
-
Yes, Don. I know some entrepreneurs whom are multi-millionaires. Some of them are just business acquaintances and some of them I have dinner with on occasion. I'm not saying I have a lot of experience with rich people but I know some of them have micro-funded projects when they have plenty of money to fund it completely if they wanted to. One person I know funded a project just because he liked the guy. The idea didn't work but he continued to fund him on that basis.
-
Yes, Don. I know some entrepreneurs whom are multi-millionaires. Some of them are just business acquaintances and some of them I have dinner with on occasion. I'm not saying I have a lot of experience with rich people but I know some of them have micro-funded projects when they have plenty of money to fund it completely if they wanted to. One person I know funded a project just because he liked the guy. The idea didn't work but he continued to fund him on that basis.
I think - no, I know - we're getting off-topic here. The point was that the odds of a single individual suddenly dropping £3,000 out of nowhere are a bit on the low side, when considering the number of people online who can easily pass on that kind of funding compared to the number of people who can't afford it or simply won't spend it - I think even you would have to admit that.
The moment you start talking about multimillionaires (or to use the more globally-meaningful term, "high net worth individuals" or HNWIs) investing in Kickstarter projects, you're talking about people living way on the narrow side of the Bell curve, financially speaking - perhaps 13 million in a world of 7.2 billion, or 0.18% The number is growing, but not as fast as the population as a whole, so the percentage is actually shrinking, making the odds even that much less likely. If you want to make Kickstarter investment theories based on odds that long, you might as well posit that Bruce Wayne himself made the investment and Clark Kent reported it to the Daily Globe while Peter Parker took photos - statistically speaking, it's almost as likely.
Now, unless there's something you care to add about this particular deck project specifically and not its moot, theoretical investors, please take this to a new topic in the Conversation Parlor.