PlayingCardForum.com - A Discourse For Playing Cards

Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Design & Development => Topic started by: sastian on February 20, 2014, 01:05:56 PM

Title: Interlace Deck - Returning to KS soon..
Post by: sastian on February 20, 2014, 01:05:56 PM
Well I have browsed the site for all of about two minutes, and I realize fully that there is literally TONS of advice already written in the annuls of those who have gone before me! What I've decided to do instead of spending the next week reading through everything is just post what I've got so far and let you all in on my process.

As a seasoned designer with ink running in my blood, I'm no stranger to technique and process. Although I seem to be on a bender now that I've found out about the world and process of designing playing cards, I'll try and keep this short.

On Jan 28th, I received a message from a friend and colleague of mine, asking me if I "knew about kickstarter." The answer, of course, was "SURE!  Heck I have even backed a few projects." He then proceeded to tell me of what he was seeing as an opportunity to promote his new business. Playing cards!  At first I was more than skeptical. But then, being who I am, started researching. And I discovered a rabbit hole that goes deep. History of playing cards, themes, the cardists and magicians, you name it - there are so many facets to this industry it's easy to get lost. And I did. I got lost. So lost in the details, in fact, that I needed a mental break. I had to stop thinking about themes and what someone has already done or not done, and just started drawing. What would I want to see on a deck? Forget the constraints of trying to mimic some other style or theme. Just my art... just draw.

THE CONCEPT SKETCH

And then, I got lost in the concept... What poured out on Feb 10th was this:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/drawing%2001.png)
First concept drawing. 2-10-2014 6:36pm

and an hour after that...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/drawing%2002.png)
First concept drawing progress. 2-10-2014 6:32pm

and by 3am...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/drawing%2003.png)

The next day it just kept going...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/refining.png)
Refining the first inking for symmetry 2-11-2014 12:44pm

then on to Adobe Illustrator.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/Illustrator.png)

This is where I started to cut my teeth on the process.. I initially waffled back and forth between whether i centerline the entire drawing by hand or let the software take a stab at tracing the rendering. I opted for the latter to "save time."

Come to find out when I got to work on the first court card... line consistency began to matter. so it didn't actually save me any time. I'm currently going through a second pass at this, which you'll see in a bit. but its all good learning.

Feel free to follow my progress here: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/sasscandraw">Illustrations by Christian Sass</a>
Ill keep posting my progress in here as well since i really want to hone the design with your input...
Title: Re: Here's something I'm may call "Interlaced"
Post by: sastian on February 20, 2014, 01:08:59 PM
Continuing the story...

Vectorizing the card back

Why vectorize? Having worked in the graphic arts, I have come to learn that any design worth keeping is worth vectorizing. the ability to make posters, tshirts, wall murals etc are all wide open once that happens. Heck i love running things on my vinyl cutter, it's like getting to print on the world at large.

what I wasn't planning on was the consistency that I would demand of myself once trying to spread it across 52 cards. I get layout, but making sure my lines all carry the same weight and feel became very evident when I started trying to develop my first court card. You'll see how this unfolds in my screenshots I post here.

The first vectorized trace of my sketch gets completed
2-11-2014 5:38pm

It was looking at this version that I realized i was going to have issues with this method. I had already spent more time than I wanted cleaning up Illustrators best effort at tracing my art. and i was still seeing many area that weren't representing my line work correctly.

i trudge forward with blacking the BG out...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/illustrator%202014-02-11%20at%206.14.42%20PM.png)
2-11-2014 6:14pm

Then I start to play with the possibilities of color..
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/illustrator-red.png)


Playing with a mock up
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/Playing-Card-Box-Mock-up-05.jpg)


But long story short,This is where I currently am with the design.

Redoing the linework by hand in illustrator in order to insure that the same method employed on the court cards has the same line weight.



(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/Screen%20shot%202014-02-16%20at%203.43.51%20AM.png)


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/Screen%20shot%202014-02-18%20at%202.35.29%20AM.png)


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/Screen%20shot%202014-02-20%20at%201.34.07%20PM.png)
Title: Re: Here's something I'm may call "Interlaced"
Post by: sastian on February 20, 2014, 01:09:27 PM
reserved for court card design...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/progression%20of%20design.jpg)
Title: Re: Here's something I'm may call "Interlaced"
Post by: jwats01 on February 20, 2014, 03:08:51 PM
Interesting to see your behind the scenes details of your work. Looking very elaborate so far. Can't wait to see how you involve the suits.

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: superdarkdark on February 20, 2014, 06:01:37 PM
i'm really excited for this project. there is good depth to the "interlaced" concept and the red & green color schemes look best, imo. i'm enjoying how neat & tight the lines are on the back cards, similar to celtic cross interior work. being an irish kid with celtic pride, i needed this pack yesterday.
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 20, 2014, 06:19:49 PM
In my research i read somewhere that true celtic knots are made of a single unbroken strand... I wasn't thinking i want a celtic look when i started sketching , i just started carving away at a design that was appealing. Although I sincerely plan to follow up with a true celtic themed deck after i finish this one off. right ow i just racing to the finish line to prove to myself that this is possible! :)
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: 52plusjoker on February 20, 2014, 06:54:37 PM
Neat stuff!
I think emerald green fill on the back design (not red!)
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 20, 2014, 07:19:31 PM
My mother was the one who suggested the Green :) She said it reminded her of Byzantine designs and should be jeweled accordingly.  :)
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Anthony on February 20, 2014, 08:50:03 PM
Very nice work, love the intricacy of the pattern. The splash of color does pop.
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 02:00:27 AM
in a conversation with my wife about how to handle the number cards we cam up with this concept.. Ill refine it more to have a real comparison later.. this is just a fast thumbnail sketch.
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 02:31:57 AM
Back version 2 is almost complete.. will finish it tomorrow... 
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Jody Eklund on February 21, 2014, 10:31:29 AM
The back design is pretty sweet. I think you are on to something. I am wondering if you should try getting away from doing this as a vector and try photoshop to finalize your drawing. I love the sketches, because it looks so organic. When you turn it into vector it looks too cartoony. I think to get that true woodcut look you need to play around with texture and shading in photoshop. Nice work! I like the idea. These are just my thoughts. Remember it's your art.
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: musical_racket on February 21, 2014, 01:28:38 PM
I can honestly say that I absolutely love this design. I really enjoy the motion involved with the design that makes your eyes always move. Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 01:39:19 PM
@Jody: I agree, the pencil work is my favorite as well. I'll do my best to bring it back to the richness of the hand-drawn look... but i also want it to translate well in a large format. so im taking the time to refine it. I also feel my print experience leading me to define the linework because i know the details will get lost in the final product. It may look great on screen but a 2" x 3" print isn't going to retain that detail. I'm really focused on the playability and how these will look fanned out. So I'm tuning the art to the medium and the product. Maybe I can offer the original hand drawn concept as a poster for a KS reward though....
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 01:48:50 PM
man! Huge improvements in detail!
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 04:30:40 PM
My final symmetry check.
This is the design duplicated and layed on top of it self at 50% opacity. if anything doesn't match exactly it'll peek out as red or blue.. as you can see thats almost invisible to the naked eye at maximum magnification here. I think I'm golden now. Do you see the variance?... look hard!

heres a closer look. ( i lied about the magnification :) )
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/Screen%20shot%202014-02-21%20at%203.31.27%20PM.png)
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 05:26:44 PM
Last check...  :D
Red Stays... Blue goes away...
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 05:43:51 PM
Its all welded together now. commited!


On to the background, shading then hopefully start the facecards
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 06:01:11 PM
Punching holes....
(BTW. let me know if this is too much info or getting annoying)
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 07:47:50 PM
Oh the things ill be able to do now that i have it all separated!  8) Now its time to Rest! Shabbat Shalom!

[pics removed]
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 07:59:28 PM
I'm liking this... By the way, I still plan to add a "woodcut" style shading to this design & none of the colors are set in stone.

[pic removed]
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 21, 2014, 08:04:23 PM
hmmm or i could thin the lines out... but concerned about the size they print. This is the base line i'm calling complete for now. it sports a 0.5pt line width. I like it!



OOOPS Caught a gremlin!
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: jwats01 on February 21, 2014, 09:46:46 PM
I just wanted to say again, I really like what is going on here. Looks great! I'm excited for this deck as a whole and am enjoying watching you create it.
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 22, 2014, 10:25:35 AM
Don pointed out that i might be at risk of plagiarism, which i thought by posting in public would only deter anyone from buying a deck that was known about in advance... but for that reason i may be culling through this thread today and cleaning up. that will slow down what i post for sure if i have to go through watermarking files... I guess i was mimicking what im used to in automotive build threads and was trying to build the enthusiasm ive seen surrounding those. but then its hard to steal a car that way :)
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 22, 2014, 08:30:35 PM
Heres a simple deck fan render... any thoughts?
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Yashi on February 22, 2014, 09:36:08 PM
Looks good so far. Based on the colored mock up of the King of Hearts, I think the index could pop out more because it get's hard to see with all the interlacing.
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 22, 2014, 11:14:08 PM
I agree. im still working out the design in thumbnails.... ill post some options soon.
Title: Re: "Interlaced" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on February 23, 2014, 02:48:10 AM
in a conversation with my wife about how to handle the number cards we cam up with this concept.. Ill refine it more to have a real comparison later.. this is just a fast thumbnail sketch.

Take a look at the Deck of the Living Dead by Bent Castle Workshops.  They employ a similar design.

Don pointed out that i might be at risk of plagiarism, which i thought by posting in public would only deter anyone from buying a deck that was known about in advance... but for that reason i may be culling through this thread today and cleaning up. that will slow down what i post for sure if i have to go through watermarking files... I guess i was mimicking what im used to in automotive build threads and was trying to build the enthusiasm ive seen surrounding those. but then its hard to steal a car that way :)

Yeah, I just pointed out the experience Emmanuel had with the release of the Curator deck - a print company in Russia released the deck in that country before HOPC did, having copied the artwork that he posted online.  The back is generic as is the box, but the faces are all his designs.  Ironically, the company gave design credit for the deck to a pseudonym he uses on one of the art boards - DeviantArt, I think.  There's lots of posts about this on the topic for the Curator deck, should anyone be interested in reading more about it.  Russians apparently have a deep fondness for playing cards, printing all kinds of designs, good or bad, copyrighted or not, licensed or not...paying royalties or NOT...  :))

It's better to limit how much of a deck you release before printing, and making what you do release difficult to accurately copy by using watermarks and skewed-angle photography/rendering.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 23, 2014, 04:10:46 PM
thanks for the insight, i am just anxious to build buzz and get these on KS to see where all this can go... Do you think i should take down more?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on February 23, 2014, 06:46:24 PM
thanks for the insight, i am just anxious to build buzz and get these on KS to see where all this can go... Do you think i should take down more?

Don't go too crazy with it. You do want you backers to see something, right?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 23, 2014, 09:09:45 PM
LOL, you just keep me in check Don!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 25, 2014, 09:14:32 PM
 :D first face card is about an hour from being finalized! (the rest will go much quicker now that a standard is being set)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 26, 2014, 06:59:20 AM
What am I still doing awake??? I'm trying to build a master template of course.   ???
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Daniel Wilson on February 26, 2014, 08:42:21 PM
I like this concept very much.
I have absolutely no artistic skill myself, but I'm always interested to see the process of design
and development from those who do.  You make it seem so simple, but I know full well it isn't.   ^_^;
I noticed you're using the Arrco face cards for your models; I wonder what you'll do with the
curlicue-thingy the jack of spades is holding...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 26, 2014, 11:08:18 PM
i dont know what ill do, but ill sketch out a concept right now. :)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 26, 2014, 11:14:22 PM
Hogier, Danish knight of Charlemagne

Called “Hogier” on the French deck: origin is uncertain, but perhaps after Ogier the Dane from the Song of Rolland. He has a feather in his hat. He faces forward, a little to the right. On the English deck, he holds an unidentifiable object (initially a spear). He has a mustache. He faces right, and is seen in profile.
http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/cards.html

Wiki:
In Hindi card Jack is called as "Gulaam" meaning servant. In late 20th century the power held by Jack was challenged in some card games Later on in Indian card game called "Teen patti" or "Flash" a term was coined for Jacks in the deck to justify the power they held over other cards. People started calling them Jaats (An Indian fighting caste). "Jaat"(Jack) of "hukum"(Spades) is considered to be most powerful of all Jacks. The name "Jaats" for Jacks was first used by Ashutosh Tomar, who now resides in the United Kingdom.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 26, 2014, 11:24:13 PM
Jack of Spades

DIRECT
BLUNT
AUTHORITATIVE
OVERBEARING
INCISIVE
CUTTING
KNOWLEDGEABLE
OPINIONATED
LOGICAL
UNFEELING

On the positive side, the Jack of Spades is a master of logic and reason. He has a keen intellect that grasps the fine points of any subject. He speaks clearly, directly and always with authority. His judgments are sure and free of emotion. Others rely on his lucid analyses of problems and solutions. On the negative side, this Jack is not a master of diplomacy. He can be downright tactless and rude. When he thinks you are wrong, you'll know it. He's convinced of his own superiority and has little tolerance for stupidity. He expects others to comply with his views. To him, feelings are irrelevant and illogical. 

-from UC
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 27, 2014, 12:03:36 AM
started and left the train station!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: kdklown on February 27, 2014, 04:28:52 AM
An absolutely lovely representation of the Jack.  I'm not sure if it was intentional but if the left shoulder/side is inverted an met with the right shoulder/side it creates a rudimentary spade pip.  If it was intentional kudos.  If not then perhaps it could be continued throughout the courts.  Either way lovely work!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Paul Carpenter on February 27, 2014, 10:02:50 AM
This is very nice work, definitely keep at it. You clearly have a passion and talent here and it's great to see your process and refinements. Take your time, get it right, and I have no doubt you can have some good success with this design. Lovely back design, very appealing and usable.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 27, 2014, 12:12:50 PM
and this is just the first step in the design where i layout the "lacing" it will need to have dimension added to it and then be vectorized. This is just the best way for me to work out the balance and flow.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 27, 2014, 03:59:09 PM
heres where it has evolved to...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on February 27, 2014, 05:22:12 PM
This just keeps getting better and better.  I really do love how you have used perspective to make it "pop out".

I'm interested in how you are going to keep up the look with the regular number cards.  The sketch you had looks good but wondering how you will balance being able to read the card (actually being able to count the number of pips) and still having this cool interconnected design.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 27, 2014, 06:25:59 PM
the number cards are still a question for me too, but i think im going to make it a simple "punch" look to keep them playable... ill mock up a few options later for debate...

Anyway... Heres where the jack of spades is...

Too much??
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 27, 2014, 08:46:22 PM
Well, Q.C. ( aka my wife) walked in and thought it was a bowl of spaghetti. sooo ON to revision 2
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 28, 2014, 09:27:22 AM
This is very nice work, definitely keep at it. You clearly have a passion and talent here and it's great to see your process and refinements. Take your time, get it right, and I have no doubt you can have some good success with this design. Lovely back design, very appealing and usable.
Thanks for your opinion on the usability of the back design.. i would love to get a sample printed to get it in hand to test with.. any ideas?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on February 28, 2014, 10:27:18 AM
The queen of clubs has just gotten a lot more attractive :) ( shes getting some curves.)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on February 28, 2014, 04:22:14 PM
This is very nice work, definitely keep at it. You clearly have a passion and talent here and it's great to see your process and refinements. Take your time, get it right, and I have no doubt you can have some good success with this design. Lovely back design, very appealing and usable.
Thanks for your opinion on the usability of the back design.. i would love to get a sample printed to get it in hand to test with.. any ideas?

You could try makeplayingcards.com, it seems like they can offer the best quality.  If you just want to get it the cheapest I heard that art cow prints well and usually has really good deals.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 01, 2014, 01:24:06 AM
Many designers I've spoken to use MPC for test decks - they're not 100% USPC-quality, but they're close enough in most cases for a demo deck, with the only major deficiencies being in the handling rather than the printing.

USPC will make you a demo if you want, but they charge several times more and even then it's not the exact same quality due to the deck being printed on a souped-up version of a laser printer rather than a printing press with the actual plates and ink colors that will be the end result product of your full order.  I recall someone telling me that they aren't even coated.  Hence the reason why so many people go to MPC for a demo deck!

Having a demo deck makes having a demo video on your project page very much simpler without having to resort to computer-generated cards floating around in space.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 01, 2014, 02:20:37 AM
thanks for the advice... ill make sure to send a order without faces just to see how the backs look.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 01, 2014, 06:31:46 AM
thanks for the advice... ill make sure to send a order without faces just to see how the backs look.

Why not use the company's standard faces? The deck will be useful that way.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 01, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
LOL, that was what I had meant to say....
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 04, 2014, 07:07:44 PM
OK, back in the game, I was sick for the past few days...
Here's the progress today...
And as you can see I have taken kdklown's suggestion of integrating the suit into the lacework.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 05, 2014, 02:20:20 AM
I've decided to plow through all the "black and whites before adding dimensions to the carvings... so with any further fanfare. The Man with the Axe
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 05, 2014, 03:12:16 AM
Going to bed late with the King of Spades in progress. Would love your feedback...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: popetown on March 05, 2014, 11:13:33 AM
Ok, I'm a newbie on here and definitely have no experience with design or anything. I'm just here to subscribe and say: I want these cards!

I was thinking of doing a very basic deck design as a Christmas gift this year for my friends. Basic as in, use Bicycle's Zazzle connection to customize the backs only. After seeing your work, hah! I'm suddenly very overwhelmed and humbled. Haha!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 06, 2014, 01:36:52 AM
Thanks for the feedback.  im hoping to have enough cards done to launch my first KS campaign in a week. Hopefully this is good timing.  any ideas on that? what is "too many" decks in the pipeline?  is there such a thing?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: kdklown on March 06, 2014, 01:49:16 AM
I don't think its a matter of how many decks, it may be more important to dodge the Big Dogs as best you can.  It is however, I think,  a good idea to have just about all your art done prior to launch.  Also your project has to be cleared by KS first and that may not be immediate but may require some back and forth.  There are people on here that know a lot more about this than me but these are just some "tips" based on your questions.  You may want to reach out to Don for some direction or PM some of the designers on here.  They may or may not be willing to help you out.  If you already knew all this then never mind, please carry on. 
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 06, 2014, 08:51:04 AM
Thanks for the feedback.  im hoping to have enough cards done to launch my first KS campaign in a week. Hopefully this is good timing.  any ideas on that? what is "too many" decks in the pipeline?  is there such a thing?

At one time in recent history, yes, there were lulls in-between new deck releases.

Not any more.  Wait for a lull, you'll be waiting for Kickstarter to go out of business.

Best that you can do is to TRY to find a window where a major deck release isn't currently "Kickstarting".  Major releases come from a handful of designer/artists: Encarded, Uusi, Kings and Crooks, Midnight, Kings Wild, maybe a few others.  There's no guarantee that a big release won't happen in the middle of your campaign, but if you've made a deck that's worth it, your backers will come, regardless.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 06, 2014, 09:44:02 AM
Well should the backers allow, i fully plan to be one of those"Big Dogs." I do not have any plans to be a flash in the pan. Look out people.  ;)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on March 07, 2014, 07:30:17 PM
Ok, I'm a newbie on here and definitely have no experience with design or anything. I'm just here to subscribe and say: I want these cards!

I was thinking of doing a very basic deck design as a Christmas gift this year for my friends. Basic as in, use Bicycle's Zazzle connection to customize the backs only. After seeing your work, hah! I'm suddenly very overwhelmed and humbled. Haha!

Just a note on this, but from the research I have done to get my own personal deck printed Zazzle seems to be overpriced and actually not as good as other custom printers.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 08, 2014, 01:44:15 AM
Ok, I'm a newbie on here and definitely have no experience with design or anything. I'm just here to subscribe and say: I want these cards!

I was thinking of doing a very basic deck design as a Christmas gift this year for my friends. Basic as in, use Bicycle's Zazzle connection to customize the backs only. After seeing your work, hah! I'm suddenly very overwhelmed and humbled. Haha!

Just a note on this, but from the research I have done to get my own personal deck printed Zazzle seems to be overpriced and actually not as good as other custom printers.

Zazzle's quality isn't as high, but they have the advantage of allowing for exceptionally small print runs, as little as a single deck, and they're authorized by USPC to use their official face designs, including their jokers and aces, for the Bicycle deck.  Nowhere else can you call your new supershort-run deck a Bicycle deck.

Let's not hijack this topic any further than we have - this is a discussion best left for another topic.  Please start a new one if you wish to discuss this further.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 08, 2014, 02:10:07 AM
its all good conversation. no hijacking felt. :)
but since I'm here, here's another question: Im working on my tuckbox layout and wondering if USPCC will provide a vector of their brand/logo in order to comply with their trademark standards. or do they expect each artist to redraw that portion of the box?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 08, 2014, 02:45:37 AM
its all good conversation. no hijacking felt. :)
but since I'm here, here's another question: Im working on my tuckbox layout and wondering if USPCC will provide a vector of their brand/logo in order to comply with their trademark standards. or do they expect each artist to redraw that portion of the box?

To my knowledge, any time anyone's added a USPC brand to their deck, USPC were the ones to place the brand in the design.  There's also the matter of the approval process - it's more of a rubber-stamp review, but it is required and your design can get rejected by the brand manager for that brand, meaning you won't be able to use the brand for your deck.  The toughest hurdle tends to be USPC Legal, but they're usually slow in responding.  Just make certain that if you end up using any USPC trademark elements in your design, including but not limited to their card backs, unique Aces of Spades and unique Jokers, they have to be unaltered other than perhaps a change in color scheme or your project will be rejected by them and you'll have to redesign or cancel.

You really should be contacting USPC.  They have someone there who handles all Kickstarter decks, even while they're still in the design phase.  USPC policies have a tendency to change often, so better to get your information from the source in the present rather than relying on old or second-hand info.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 08, 2014, 05:01:03 AM
Thanks for the info Don, Here's where I'll leave it untill I can get in contact with them.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 12, 2014, 01:25:58 AM
Getting closer, talked with USPCC to get the bicycle version of the deck approved today. should have the confirmation just before launch!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 12, 2014, 03:26:32 AM
Good luck, and one final note: be prepared for backers to compare this back (or even confuse this back) with Celtic knots.  :))
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on March 12, 2014, 11:13:07 AM
Getting closer, talked with USPCC to get the bicycle version of the deck approved today. should have the confirmation just before launch!

Hey make sure to let us know first if there is going to be any sweet early backing deals, either way though, this looks like something I will want to back.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: maggock on March 12, 2014, 11:59:41 AM
I'll be backing this one - I love the design and the amount of work that went into the cards is amazing.  I do have a confession though - I rather like the hand drawn design more than the vectored work.  I guess I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 12, 2014, 12:28:30 PM
I've considered a second deck with the same design in the pencil form. maybe posters of the original sketches
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 15, 2014, 01:13:43 AM
Speaking of hand drawn vs. vector. I've gone back and forth with my partners in design and think i've found a bit of a compromise... take a look at the art on the cover of the tuck box that I've submitted to USPCC for legal approval...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 15, 2014, 01:17:28 AM
heres another couple tidbits....


The green was put together with a preliminary sketch of the etching technique
, the final drawing is in the prior post...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 15, 2014, 01:49:44 PM
Sound off! I need a head count for how many earlybird offers to make available. This is thecONLY forum I have used for development of this deck. so you get the exclusive.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on March 15, 2014, 02:55:00 PM
You can add a +1 for me
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: maggock on March 15, 2014, 03:10:54 PM
+1 for me, and I'm probably going to be the only person who votes for purple.  :P  There are so few purple decks out there though and it's my favorite color!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on March 15, 2014, 03:21:27 PM
+1 for me, and I'm probably going to be the only person who votes for purple.  :P  There are so few purple decks out there though and it's my favorite color!

Purple is always my dad's favorite color, which doesn't always work out well when you have to drive a neon purple car to high school because of that fact...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: jwats01 on March 15, 2014, 07:33:43 PM
I'll be supporting you with an early bird +...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 15, 2014, 09:08:28 PM
Getting MUCH closer to launch!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 16, 2014, 02:06:14 AM
the new direction on the back should provide for some interesting deck fans!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 16, 2014, 02:12:47 AM
the new direction on the back should provide for some interesting deck fans!

Will you be repeating that line pattern on the front. where the lines go into the bleed?

Some magicians perform tricks that involve inverting a card in the middle of a pack without the spectator's knowledge.  When doing so with a deck that's printed into the bleed but only on one side, especially if the pattern at the edge is a simple, non-repeating one such as this, will reveal an inverted card in the middle of the pack - it stands out, clearly noticeable.

The options to prevent this are to remove the print that goes into the bleed or to repeat the same pattern on the card fronts, being careful to insure that a card will look the same from the edge whether face-up or face-down.  Alternately, you could use a small, repetitive pattern, something like the Bee Diamond Back or the Republic No. 02, to help camouflage it, though pulling it off requires a little more skill for the magician using the deck.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 16, 2014, 02:29:22 AM
Glad you asked Don, I do actually plan to "wrap" that version to the front... I am considering a version with and without the band wrapping the cards if it doesnt work as planned BUT it is planned to continue to the face for exactly the reason you stated... it just depends how tightly the USPCC can get them to match up..  ;)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 16, 2014, 05:12:42 AM
Glad you asked Don, I do actually plan to "wrap" that version to the front... I am considering a version with and without the band wrapping the cards if it doesnt work as planned BUT it is planned to continue to the face for exactly the reason you stated... it just depends how tightly the USPCC can get them to match up..  ;)

I'll tell you right off the bat, they won't get the registration perfect - they rarely do.  They are more concerned with getting the back as good as they can get it, since that's the more important of the two sides to get centered.  But despite that, it's still likely going to be good enough for what you need.  The variations will be slight enough that it shouldn't cause any concern.  It's good to discuss it with USPC, though.

Have you approached them yet?  They have someone who handles Kickstarter decks before the project has even launched.  It's good to have all the finer details tended to before you even apply for a project - that way, you don't end up with surprises.  Even better, assuming you make no serious changes during the project's run, you'll be set to kick off printing the moment you get the funds.  Hitting the ground running means you're more likely to reach your delivery deadline.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: adelsan on March 16, 2014, 09:34:52 AM
I'd go with black intrtlace and white fills, I think it would realy make your art pop!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 16, 2014, 06:05:30 PM
You mean like this? I've had this in my file for a few days, been playing with combinations... This is a VERY versatile deck.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 17, 2014, 06:21:15 AM
You mean like this? I've had this in my file for a few days, been playing with combinations... This is a VERY versatile deck.

Well, don't go too crazy.  I'd also recommend against making a "black deck" version without researching what's come before.  They tend to wear out more quickly because of the edge-chipping that naturally takes place when handling cards - since there's white paper underneath, all those white chip markss will stand out like sore thumbs against the black-inked background.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on March 17, 2014, 06:08:06 PM
You mean like this? I've had this in my file for a few days, been playing with combinations... This is a VERY versatile deck.

I use to really like black decks until the black on the edges started to chip away.  Now I don't think I would get a black deck.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 18, 2014, 01:52:08 AM
You mean like this? I've had this in my file for a few days, been playing with combinations... This is a VERY versatile deck.

I use to really like black decks until the black on the edges started to chip away.  Now I don't think I would get a black deck.

Believe it or not, they're making a bit of a comeback.  It's still a cool look.  Sometimes the artist will make a thin border in white, sometimes they'll just go into the bleed.  I guess that's what black Sharpie pens are for!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 18, 2014, 02:12:13 AM
being very familiar with print production, i wouldn't consider printing a black card on anything other than true black paper... i have no idea if USPCC even has that capability.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 18, 2014, 02:33:40 AM
being very familiar with print production, i wouldn't consider printing a black card on anything other than true black paper... i have no idea if USPCC even has that capability.

They do not.  Black paper isn't so easy to print on using the presses and inks that they use.  I have yet to see any black deck that was printed on true black paper, just black core paper (which is the paper used in all but the most cheaply-made paper playing card decks).  Two layers of white paper sandwiched together with a graphite-laced glue in between to hold the layers together, add stiffness and eliminate translucency.  Cheap cards without a black core can be held up to even a medium-power light (perhaps a 50W incandescent bulb or the fluorescent equivalent) and you can see the face shine through the back and vice versa.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 23, 2014, 04:41:37 AM
working on an Ace of spades concept but i think im getting to complicated.
 thought id share before starting over...

Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on March 23, 2014, 07:41:59 AM
I like it but seeing the sketch makes me which there was going to be a special "sketch" version of the deck.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 23, 2014, 12:16:02 PM
that is something i can put into a stretch goal for sure
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on March 23, 2014, 08:46:23 PM
working on an Ace of spades concept but i think im getting to complicated.
 thought id share before starting over...

That's not a bad spade, really.  It's nice.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on March 27, 2014, 11:54:14 PM
Editing video! man theres a ton of stuff to do to get this launched!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Jody Eklund on March 30, 2014, 01:31:30 PM
That is a nice Ace of Spades! Can't wait to see it finished. I think you should use it.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 01, 2014, 01:59:44 AM
getting close to wrapping up the revised card back.. (the one that will match the treatment i gave the tuckbox....
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: popetown on April 01, 2014, 12:07:09 PM
Man, this is looking good. So this may be a silly question since you said it's still in progress. Are those 'shadows' I'd guess you call them, the little points coming out from under the background/underlay sections, on the top section of the card in progress and going to be on the bottom as well or are you looking to make some one-way effect to the backs?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 02, 2014, 04:55:09 PM
correct, they are 'shadows' and yes it'll be on the whole back.. i just only do one side then rotate the design.. so that it's perfectly symmetrical. ( i dont want any "tells" in the design )
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: popetown on April 02, 2014, 05:10:03 PM
Ah, gotcha. Ok, I see, that makes perfect sense. Man, I'm getting excited to see this deck completed!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 02, 2014, 11:58:09 PM
So after talking with the video editor, (and no thats not me thankfully) i believe we're gonna shoot one more bit of video tomorrow night for the pitch. Ill see if i can get photos from behind the scenes there as well.

Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 03, 2014, 05:05:11 AM
Here's a simple form I've made to collect a quick headcount of those interested in this deck. please fill it out if you already plan to pledge. There could also be goodies for those who participate. http://bit.ly/1hjKJit
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 05, 2014, 08:05:31 PM
the first 50 people to sign up on my email list will get a free interlace decal... I will post a picture of the first cut soon.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Rose on April 06, 2014, 12:21:52 AM
Love the RED design, let me know when this is available to back on Kickstarter.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Jamm Pakd Cards on April 07, 2014, 01:52:06 PM
This deck is looking good!  I vote for the green deck.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 09, 2014, 02:52:32 AM
having fun with the Interlace Brand
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152398065780452&l=6793941605823985622
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 09, 2014, 03:51:02 AM
Maybe a little too intricate for mass production??
But the final decal will look close to this.. I'll keep tweaking it till i can cut 50 without losing my mind de-weeding the vinyl
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: CthulhuWho1 on April 09, 2014, 02:12:50 PM
Sastian,

   Just a comment on your background color poll, and over-all design:

   As someone also working on their own deck, I too have asked for opinions on a few issues; before I realized that I would only be truly happy with the deck I'm creating by following my heart for better or worse.  And that way, if my deck succeeds, I will truly be personally proud of it.

   In your case, no matter what input you have from others, I hope you will also just follow your heart too.

   Based upon everything you have shown so far, I admire your work greatly.

   And rather than advise you on colors or design, I'll just say that I will pledge on your cards, and be very happy to receive them in whatever colors and final design you personally are happiest with.

   Please yourself first, and everyone of us lucky enough to get a deck of your cards will know we are holding a piece of your imagination in our hands.

   Thank You for Sharing,

              Will Hart
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: popetown on April 09, 2014, 04:23:57 PM
I would like to echo Cthulhu's sentiments. I could wax fantasy all day on colors, special editions but if you do what you want first, we'll all respect your product for it's authenticity. I'm looking forward to more info on it, please post here when the KS goes live.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 09, 2014, 06:30:48 PM
awww thanks guys. ( i actually welled up) i just get so caught up in succeeding on this deck that i sweat the details. and i am kind of stuck on how to handle pips and whatnot and want to make sure to not screw it up of such a simple detail. Thank you for your vote of confidence and im seriously blessed to know you guys are out there rooting for this project.   Thank you thank you thank you!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Sher143 on April 10, 2014, 10:50:54 PM
What is the KS launch date and time for this deck? Looks like I just saw this on time. I really like the concept.  Very unique!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 11, 2014, 12:12:02 AM
im planning on a 30 day run starting hopefully next week. but things have kept pushing it out. I am supposed to have a edited video Sunday-Monday Im planning on having all the other details written up and ready to send to KS for review. so maybe in 7 days or so
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Sher143 on April 11, 2014, 08:38:17 AM
Awesome! Can't wait!  :D
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 11, 2014, 06:23:45 PM
just a little more progress on the card back finalization... if i double up the shadow lines it gains a bit more richness and almost looks like a woodgrain
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 11, 2014, 07:14:37 PM
just a little more progress on the card back finalization... if i double up the shadow lines it gains a bit more richness and almost looks like a woodgrain

Speaking of wood grain, how would that look with a light tinting to give it the appearance of wood?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 11, 2014, 10:22:48 PM
funny you say that... i tried that out last month. 
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 12, 2014, 02:04:26 AM
funny you say that... i tried that out last month.

From here, that shade is more like mud than wood!  Too gray.  Try a blond wood of some kind, a nice warm color.  And leave out the hand-drawn "faux grain" lines - keep it looking more like the one in reply #113.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 02:26:48 AM
heres the finished back... ( i think  ???)
im gonna give a Don a glimpse of the blonde wood style then get back to the face cards...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 02:33:59 AM
Like This Don?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 02:44:44 AM
Or this?...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 12, 2014, 02:50:35 AM
Like This Don?

That's more of an ivory.  Have you ever seen really blonde wood?

This is what I'm driving at.  A really WARM color of wood.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 02:54:27 AM
the only thing left bugging me is the imbalance of amount of shadow by having this 3 up - 3 down pattern... i think i need to "re-weave" them you'll see in the second screencap the vortex it makes in my pink highlights... ( much more noticeable when printed...)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 12, 2014, 02:55:54 AM
the only thing left bugging me is the imbalance of amount of shadow by having this 3 up - 3 down pattern... i think i need to "re-weave" them you'll see in the second screencap the vortex it makes in my pink highlights... ( much more noticeable when printed...)

Call me blind - and yes, I did get new glasses this week - but I'm not seeing a problem.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 03:06:29 AM
the hard part with spot colors is they will not look like wood grain without a lot of texture... im afraid even directly picking colors from your image im getting just variations of orange...


but wait till you see the stretch goal idea... :)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 12, 2014, 03:16:30 AM
the hard part with spot colors is they will not look like wood grain without a lot of texture... im afraid even directly picking colors from your image im getting just variations of orange...


but wait till you see the stretch goal idea... :)

Put the black lines back in, add the white border - this could be a gorgeous back color choice, especially suited to your design.  It would make the back look like carved wood!  Perhaps you could use a light redwood as a second color, or a pale brown?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 03:21:24 AM
So this is the "Don Boyer Edition" :)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 03:35:18 AM
This is closer ... but im not  thrilled about loosing my symmetry to the underlying texture...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 12, 2014, 06:02:24 AM
This is closer ... but im not  thrilled about loosing my symmetry to the underlying texture...

I liked the Don Boyer version better - with a white border.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Sher143 on April 12, 2014, 09:12:41 AM
Or this?...

I like this :)

EDIT: The one that has the "ivory" background.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 02:50:26 PM
working on the faces now.. thought id post one last look under the hood of the card backs
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 03:38:35 PM
final tweaks...
the version on the right does not shade the infinity symbol in the center. it was how i have planned it for a while because i feel it balances out the white space better, but i thought you'd enjoy seeing what what been making me go cross eyed for a while.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 03:41:01 PM
COOL! thought id mention that looking at those two borders edge to edge gives me my first impression of what the uncut sheets might look like..
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 05:13:43 PM
interesting how many options this design is capable of... gonna have to hold a serious poll later on final options. I'm calling this one "backlit"
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 12, 2014, 05:35:55 PM
FINAL (99.9% SURE) leaning towards a off white - ivory look vs stark white
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 12, 2014, 09:02:19 PM
The backlit effect would be great for a second deck.  It looks cool.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 17, 2014, 02:06:10 AM
progress from earlier today.. i think i finally have a method for this style.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 17, 2014, 03:22:45 AM
what do you think of this for indices and pips?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Rose on April 17, 2014, 07:38:19 AM
I hope this is not off topic too much but I saw this and thought of you. Perhaps you would consider also offering your design as a wood cut piece.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1154796888/wood-lasers-art
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: BeDoubleYou on April 17, 2014, 12:59:52 PM
This deck looks really cool regardless of what color scheme you choose. The backs are very, very neat and I like the theme overall.

I don't know if this has been brought up as I only read the first two pages. But one of the things I thought about this deck is because it has a lot of versatility it would be a perfect candidate for a wrought iron look. It appears from the four of diamonds that that kind of look would work. Possibly with a multicolored stain glass type of look in the back.

I personally have only seen one deck that attempted to look like that (it may have been on this site that I saw that design I'll see if I can dig it up.)

Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 17, 2014, 03:03:17 PM
ive done one color scheme in the past in black and thought it looked like wrought iron as well...
i thought it looked kind of gothic...

(btw on a side note.. i lost all my work from last night... my 2 year old did something to my laptop and i i came down this morning to find it crashed... without save.  Ughhhh)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: BeDoubleYou on April 17, 2014, 03:40:10 PM
Wow. Those look really good. Im pledging either way, don't sweat the details, if you get bogged down on the pips or the color scheme you're going to overthink it. Honestly, this deck would look great and a great add to any collection regardless of whether you have standard pips or whether you do something custom.

My only word of advice (I dont design cards, but I act and play music) is that sometimes there's only so much you can do about something. To be honest, I think having cool pip design is important and can really make a deck stand out, but very rarely (if ever) do I find myself looking at an otherwise impressive deck and saying "now if only the pips were nicer".

The deck exudes individuality and it has a classic look without borrowing elements from overused themes, like modern art and minimalist designs, just like every second project on KS. Personally,  I think it looks really, really sharp.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 17, 2014, 03:57:30 PM
thanks a ton for the kind words.. ill be on the lookout for you when i launch  ;) ... and add yourself to the early bird list if you havent already!   https://bitly.com/1hjKJit
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 17, 2014, 04:25:26 PM
I think that is actually a great way to do your pips.  Making them just look cut out works with the rest of the design and doesn't  require you to somehow make them "linked" with the rest of the design.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 18, 2014, 01:54:27 AM
thought i had devised a method to speed up the extrusion effect but not too happy with the results....
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 18, 2014, 03:32:22 AM
Crap i didn't realize it was Friday night.. signing off with this screencap of my progress...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 18, 2014, 04:34:08 PM
weaving.. BY HAND! ( i guess theres no real shortcuts to this part )
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: CordedTires on April 18, 2014, 07:16:46 PM
I love the way this is going.

Here's a random thought......not for first deck but maybe variants, or doing add-ons: Your card back really looks like an ornamental screen (like, a wooden room divider or a door). I wonder what it would look like with something behind it - a Chinese style dragon, for example. Or a person. Or a landscape. Maybe too busy, but maybe not.



Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 18, 2014, 09:21:28 PM
Ok! jack is 90% done!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Sher143 on April 19, 2014, 10:31:53 PM
FINAL (99.9% SURE) leaning towards a off white - ivory look vs stark white

I love this one!!!  :D
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 19, 2014, 11:51:07 PM
Were you considering entering this deck in the design contest?  You should at least check it out; you might find it better than using a Kickstarter project to get your concept made.

http://www.playingcardforum.com/playing-card-plethora/the-1st-discourse-deck-design-contest!/

If so, please add this tag to the start of the topic title: (DDDC).
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 20, 2014, 09:18:19 PM
finalizing the shading elements on the jack...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 21, 2014, 02:02:46 AM
who knew this would be such a pain?!?  ???
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 21, 2014, 02:32:21 AM
 :D First face card completed!!! Up for review... Fire away!!!!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 21, 2014, 08:40:28 AM
:D First face card completed!!! Up for review... Fire away!!!!

It looks good, but USPC is terrible about registering both sides of the sheet.  They focus on the back, since it's the one most likely to accidentally make a back one-way.  The lines for the faces might - or might not - be aligned with the lines on the back.  A thicker line will help you fudge the appearance a bit.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 21, 2014, 12:08:44 PM
good to know.. if its not a real possibility to get it right it might be best to drop that option rather than set incorrect expectations.
 
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 21, 2014, 03:35:07 PM
I think the lines going to the edge looks weird on the face card.  I say this because on the back they are tied into the very design and naturally flow off the design and to the edge but on the front they just get cut off.

If you are going to keep them then either try to incorporate them so that they link into the design or just keep them on the back.

My other thought about the lines is that they will look cool with cards side by side but I wonder how well they will look in a fan.  It may be a good idea to do a fan render just to make sure they don't cause any fans to look awkward.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 22, 2014, 12:00:32 AM
I think the lines going to the edge looks weird on the face card.  I say this because on the back they are tied into the very design and naturally flow off the design and to the edge but on the front they just get cut off.

If you are going to keep them then either try to incorporate them so that they link into the design or just keep them on the back.

My other thought about the lines is that they will look cool with cards side by side but I wonder how well they will look in a fan.  It may be a good idea to do a fan render just to make sure they don't cause any fans to look awkward.

There's a point to putting the lines on the faces and backs, if he can get them properly registered to each other.  It's the "inverted card" issue.  Some magician's tricks require that a card be inverted and hidden in the middle of the deck.  When the edge of a card is different from front to back, that inverted card will often stand out, becoming immediately visible to a spectator.  Granted, this isn't the kind of deck most magicians would employ when performing, but it's noteworthy.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 22, 2014, 08:49:47 AM
True but I do a few inverted card tricks and I use a deck of dealers most of the time.  It is much easier to hide the inverted card if they match like you said.

With all the versions of the back posted, I like it without the lines more than with.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 22, 2014, 01:41:30 PM
thanks for the input guys, i figured the only way to see how it would work was to design it with and if i didnt like it take it off... I would hope that the design lends itself to a performer as well. otherwise, why have it there?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 23, 2014, 12:58:25 AM
True but I do a few inverted card tricks and I use a deck of dealers most of the time.  It is much easier to hide the inverted card if they match like you said.

With all the versions of the back posted, I like it without the lines more than with.

The Dealers are a MUCH different back design.  A small, repeating back pattern like that does indeed conceal inverted cards to a degree, as long as you keep the deck stack held straight - the same applies for Bee Diamond Backs.  I advised Uusi to reduce the size of the repeating pattern on the Pagan deck to achieve the same effect!  It creates an effect much like an optical illusion and acts like camouflage for the inverted card when seen edgewise.  If you inverted multiple cards, however, you stand a greater chance of getting caught at it.

When the alteration is a small but noticeable area that prints into the bleed on one side but not the other, that's where it's more easily detected.  Even worse is when the entire back is printed a solid color and the face is either white or a very different color.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 23, 2014, 06:14:41 AM

The Dealers are a MUCH different back design.  A small, repeating back pattern like that does indeed conceal inverted cards to a degree, as long as you keep the deck stack held straight - the same applies for Bee Diamond Backs.  I advised Uusi to reduce the size of the repeating pattern on the Pagan deck to achieve the same effect!  It creates an effect much like an optical illusion and acts like camouflage for the inverted card when seen edgewise.  If you inverted multiple cards, however, you stand a greater chance of getting caught at it.

When the alteration is a small but noticeable area that prints into the bleed on one side but not the other, that's where it's more easily detected.  Even worse is when the entire back is printed a solid color and the face is either white or a very different color.


You really should consider making a quick youtube video demonstrating the finer points of this sometime. not sure i fully understand but it would be much easier for designers like me to grasp if we saw it in practice.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 23, 2014, 08:00:29 AM

The Dealers are a MUCH different back design.  A small, repeating back pattern like that does indeed conceal inverted cards to a degree, as long as you keep the deck stack held straight - the same applies for Bee Diamond Backs.  I advised Uusi to reduce the size of the repeating pattern on the Pagan deck to achieve the same effect!  It creates an effect much like an optical illusion and acts like camouflage for the inverted card when seen edgewise.  If you inverted multiple cards, however, you stand a greater chance of getting caught at it.

When the alteration is a small but noticeable area that prints into the bleed on one side but not the other, that's where it's more easily detected.  Even worse is when the entire back is printed a solid color and the face is either white or a very different color.


You really should consider making a quick youtube video demonstrating the finer points of this sometime. not sure i fully understand but it would be much easier for designers like me to grasp if we saw it in practice.

There's an explanation with photos among the updates for Uusi's "Pagan" deck project on KS.  They're my best clients.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 23, 2014, 11:31:05 AM
Found it! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1244376122/pagan-custom-playing-cards/posts/688849
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 23, 2014, 11:39:06 AM
Rough Draft of the Queen of Spades
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 23, 2014, 01:09:37 PM
Annnnd... the King of Spades rough..
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 23, 2014, 04:20:56 PM
King of Clubs....  8)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 23, 2014, 04:24:36 PM
Where we are with Roughs..

Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 23, 2014, 05:16:08 PM
Just looking at the roughs, I like the king of hearts the best.  The other ones are really good too, I just like the design of the "body" of it more than the others.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 23, 2014, 07:45:01 PM
Just looking at the roughs, I like the king of hearts the best.  The other ones are really good too, I just like the design of the "body" of it more than the others.

Yeah that one due to be revamped... theres a TON of line variation in that and a lot of dead space.. inconsistent with the card back and a lot more difficult to reproduce similar results across multiple cards. Mainly i want it to look good on the flop. back and courts.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 23, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
Relooking at it I see what you mean, I now see why it stood out to me. 
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 24, 2014, 12:35:01 AM
I agree it was pretty when it was the only one.. the moment i put it side by side i saw road bumps ahead. the King was much Looser than the Jack... and the Jack echoed the style much closer.... and since a LOT more work was put into the Back than the King the Jack won. I would much rather rework the King than the Back! I was Very satisfied with the Back and never realy settled about the King anyway
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 24, 2014, 02:15:30 AM
Status update and next card to get drafted...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 24, 2014, 04:52:23 PM
testing this out..... fell free to join. im gonna see if i can stream my desktop while working
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcrYX0FGskhkYSIr6bvosdceDFLtVo9S1aB667-5_MUUSHEWg
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 24, 2014, 05:55:55 PM
Here's how it went... should I do more?   
http://www.youtube.com/eSuBMOGwHIc
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 24, 2014, 06:11:04 PM
Here's how it went... should I do more?   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSuBMOGwHIc#t=14

I have to confess, I didn't watch the video, just skimmed it.  It's a bit long.  Probably a lot better live.

Things like that are better when scheduled in advance so people have time to plan for it and show up.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 24, 2014, 06:12:29 PM
well this was me testing if the quality was up to snuff for scheduling... i dont want to send out invites and not know what im doing. :) So with that in mind... if you want me to do another and schedule it.. what the best time and date for anyone interested?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 24, 2014, 06:38:10 PM
Did you take it down cause I get a 404 error when clicking the link.  I'm not so sure I would be able to watch it live but I would love to see it (maybe sped up so it is like one of those "speed" paintings).
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 24, 2014, 11:16:11 PM
try this one...
https://www.youtube.com/user/sastian/videos
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 25, 2014, 12:54:08 AM
That one works.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 25, 2014, 12:55:05 AM
the card that was drafted today  8)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 25, 2014, 12:59:39 AM
quick idea.....

What if...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 25, 2014, 07:48:22 AM
well this was me testing if the quality was up to snuff for scheduling... i dont want to send out invites and not know what im doing. :) So with that in mind... if you want me to do another and schedule it.. what the best time and date for anyone interested?

That's a hard way to set things up.  Try a discreet poll among people posting here to see what their schedules are like and their desire to participate.  From there pick one time - you'll never please everyone with it, but it's the nature of a global forum.  The beauty of it is that if someone really wanted to know what happened, you need only post the video afterward to YouTube.

Another option I've seen designers use is to schedule more than one to occur at times around the clock as a way to make everyone happy.  For example, schedule a Saturday or a Sunday with sessions at 9am, 4pm and 11pm in your time zone, and there's a good chance you're hitting convenient times for most of the interested viewers/participants.  Schedule each to last about a half-hour or an hour so you're not tying up your whole day AND you're giving people enough time to interact.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 25, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Im really considering do this as a regular thing anyway.. but for like 10 minutes at a time... the ones i did yesterday wee more of me tweaking out the technical issues and learning HOW to manage and set one up. understanding the limitations of the software and how to make it look best with what i've currently got. it was just convenient to talk about the cards while doing it.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 25, 2014, 11:07:27 AM
I like the idea of doing 10 minute segments.  It's hard to watch a 2 hour thing but I have been watching it in chunks cause I like how you explain how you do things and why you do them.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 25, 2014, 12:31:19 PM
Well im starting to rework the King of Hearts... feeling like this one will go much better with the rest...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 25, 2014, 02:49:52 PM
Heres a new KoH  :D
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 25, 2014, 04:22:47 PM
Oh man I like it a lot.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 25, 2014, 04:55:18 PM
Oh man I like it a lot.

me too! glad you're digging it. you can see how this idea has evolved based on this card alone...  Wait till you see the queen.. shes a heck of a lot more attractive.. wanting her to live up to her name. as a quick head up.. i will only be posting a preview of my Queen of Hearts on my Facebook page...So go like it and watch in the next few hours... https://www.facebook.com/sasscandraw
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 25, 2014, 08:48:27 PM
The Queen of Hearts will be revealed at  8pm cst (15 minutes from now) on my FB page:  https://www.facebook.com/sasscandraw
Please make sure to check it out.. I've put up 2 versions and need help deciding!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on April 25, 2014, 09:15:35 PM
I casted my vote (I'm Wash on FB).
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on April 26, 2014, 01:56:14 AM
The Queen of Hearts will be revealed at  8pm cst (15 minutes from now) on my FB page:  https://www.facebook.com/sasscandraw
Please make sure to check it out.. I've put up 2 versions and need help deciding!

It would seem you forgot one detail.  CST (Central STANDARD Time) ended over a month ago - you're on CDT (Central DAYLIGHT Time) now!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 26, 2014, 02:24:30 AM
 ??? ugh timezones and DST
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on April 27, 2014, 06:36:04 PM
My wife suggested that maybe the Hearts and the Clubs ( one form each color sported a more open pip design to differenciate it form the suit of the same color..

therefore:
Red
Hearts: Open
Diamonds: Closed

Black
Clubs: Open
Spades: Closed
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 01, 2014, 04:05:22 PM
sorry for the delay in launching.. I've been obsessing over all my elements for my KS launch and on top of it have been very busy at home..
 by no means slowing down. i'll post some new screenshots soon, but i will fight to restrain myself from over sharing so I can start conserving some things to reveal during the campaign!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 02, 2014, 01:03:05 AM
back in the saddle again and it feels good.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 12, 2014, 02:49:54 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/496482/cards/2014-05-12%2013.00.59.jpg)

Alrighty then! I have hit a big milestone and one of the more crucial points in the design. So, this is where I get you involved.
Those of you who work with Adobe Illustrator will understand, if not just nod and smile :)
I have set an Illustrator file for each court card made, on which the strokes have not been outlined. Once I cross that line in the design process it becomes a lot of work to go back and change the layout. What that means is there is time to review the current balance of the lines before solidifying them. I plan to do this in collaboration with YOU! Just follow the link here if you have a gmail account.. gmail and  the google hangouts plugin will be required to join. Hope to see you there!

PS: all those who attend will get a preview link to my kickstarter page

https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/c6a8nd3kfs3gnscduepnhd0m2fk
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on May 13, 2014, 12:56:40 AM
I don't think I'll be able to make it, I'm flying tomorrow so will be a little preoccupied (though I wish I could just to get the preview link)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 14, 2014, 09:22:44 PM
It's still amazing to me how UN-mathematical, INprecise and just plain sloppy the standard pips are current standard decks
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 15, 2014, 02:39:55 AM
Progress on the pips
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on May 15, 2014, 10:45:00 PM
I know that you have settled on uspcc but have you considered SPCC? I recently bought someble exquisite a and they are by far the best deck I have handled
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 15, 2014, 11:22:55 PM
I am considering other manufactures but it be based on what and when they can deliver. who is SPCC?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on May 16, 2014, 08:17:25 AM
Sorry I meant epcc, expert playing card company
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 16, 2014, 05:35:26 PM
considering this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYi6sa-YyWo
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 16, 2014, 08:26:23 PM
Further analysis of the Standard Bicycle pips leaves much to be desired. I'm really wondering if i were to refine the Bike art if they would be interested in using it.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 16, 2014, 08:51:29 PM
my guidelines in place for redesign....
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 16, 2014, 09:17:45 PM
Bicycle Spade analysis and refinement done.... thoughts?
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on May 16, 2014, 11:53:18 PM
Bicycle Spade analysis and refinement done.... thoughts?

The design change seems really subtle - only the sharpest of eyes and the people who already know will notice even a small difference.

You might be interested in using Perfect Pips, assuming you're printing with USPC.  They came up with a pip design that wasn't as popular for their mainstream decks but seem to work well for some custom designs.  I know the Buck Twins used it for the original Smoke and Mirrors decks that I possess (versions 4 through 6).  I think the overall intent was to get the pips to a uniform size, but it made some, like the spades, seem a little too narrow - and it was a big issue for magicians that it didn't match the thousands of gaffs that had been made for the USPC standard faces.  Ellusionist used Perfect Pips for a while on some of their earlier Masters decks in red and blue and I've had spectators notice the difference - they've since switched back to the original standard.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 17, 2014, 12:50:00 AM
[edited for clarity]

well at the end of the day, my pips wont match anyones. i just wanted a clean starting point and to build repository for future projects.

I was just surprised to see that these are soo varied after all these years. it was time to bring them up to date...
 
The images below are high resolution scans i took from a fresh deck of Bicycle stand cards.
below is just a sample of the level of analysis im going into.. look how out of register these are with each other!

1) the first image shows how much variation there is in the web press production ( which is why im considering a different printer)

2) the second image shows how much variation there is AFTER i line up the top left 10's instead of the edges of the card...
    this show the accuracy of the Bicycle layout... the pips are pretty inconsistent in their placement. seems they were aligned to outer edge but not too much care is vertical spacing
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 17, 2014, 04:15:33 AM
FINISHED MY BASE PIPS!!!  :D
Now to get them to fit the theme
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 17, 2014, 06:13:18 AM
So to explain... the reason im being so picky is that when i go to extrude this design so that it looks punched through. inconsistencies in the lines will only be magnified by this process. Look how clean these clubs look.. if the spacing around the stems were left as they were it would have looked like errors.

Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on May 17, 2014, 06:41:46 AM
well at the end of the day, my pips wont match anyones. i just wanted a clean starting point and to build repository for future projects. I was just surprised to see that these are soo varied after all these years. it was time to bring them up to date...
 not to mention.. heres a sample of the level of analysis im going into.. look how out of register these are... the second image shows how much variation there is if i line up the top left 10's instead o f the edges...

Wow - I get the feeling that you're REALLY overthinking things a bit here.  You do understand that even if you get the cards perfectly aligned on the uncut sheet, there's no guarantee that the finished cards themselves will be so perfectly centered, right?  And that USPC generally worries more about aligning the backs than the fronts when it comes to cutting the cards from the sheets, since back alignment can take a perfectly fine deck and make it a one-way design because of off-sized borders?  I have news for you - those Bicycle faces in your example were probably aligned pretty close to perfect as well, before they were cut from the sheet...

I'm all for a uniform deck, but you're seeking the kind of precision that scientists and engineers demand but that printers can rarely deliver, USPC included.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on May 17, 2014, 07:47:44 AM
considering this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYi6sa-YyWo

Legends and Epcc both use the same printer in Taiwan.  They also use the same paper and finish.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: troy on May 17, 2014, 09:25:44 AM
FINISHED MY BASE PIPS!!!  :D
Now to get them to fit the theme

Please consider making the spades and clubs black and the the hearts and diamonds red. Simple is better and more usable.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on May 17, 2014, 12:06:40 PM
FINISHED MY BASE PIPS!!!  :D
Now to get them to fit the theme

Please consider making the spades and clubs black and the the hearts and diamonds red. Simple is better and more usable.

Actually, it depends on the user.  For some, having the pips in four different colors makes it easier to spot a flush when playing poker, though it can be annoying to use for playing most solitaire games.  Four colors aren't my favorite choice, but there is indeed a valid reason for using them.  It's why the Bicycle Lo-Vision deck now comes with four-color as well as two-color pip designs on their decks, whereas originally they were only two-color.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 17, 2014, 02:42:22 PM
don't worry all. the colors were just a design reference...  ;)


Don, I've spent long enough in design and print to know the limitations in accuracy when printing on large web offset CTP processes. I think your misunderstanding the WHY of what im doing. i'm not concerned about the alignment of the printing on the back of the cards... i spent that time cleaning up the pips because inconsistencies in the lines that make the pips get magnified when you double them up the way I am when applying the dimensional effects.  this screen shot goes to show that basically if i have to spend the time to hand trace the base pip, i might as well redesign it to be accurate.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 17, 2014, 04:09:10 PM
working out the indices font  8)
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 17, 2014, 05:05:32 PM
preferences on the "J" ???
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Don Boyer on May 18, 2014, 12:15:38 AM
don't worry all. the colors were just a design reference...  ;)


Don, I've spent long enough in design and print to know the limitations in accuracy when printing on large web offset CTP processes. I think your misunderstanding the WHY of what im doing. i'm not concerned about the alignment of the printing on the back of the cards... i spent that time cleaning up the pips because inconsistencies in the lines that make the pips get magnified when you double them up the way I am when applying the dimensional effects.  this screen shot goes to show that basically if i have to spend the time to hand trace the base pip, i might as well redesign it to be accurate.

This project would be printed by USPC on the sheet-fed press, not the web press.  These days almost no "boutique" decks get made on the web press unless you're making the kind of quantities Ellusionist, T11, TBC or D&D typically order, in the low five figures at the least.  Before the shift to Erlanger they let a few smaller projects through, but that had a lot to do with the poor condition of the sheet-fed press toward the end.  However, that's at least five years ago.

A redesign is fine - it just looked like you were going through a lot more work than needed.  I could be wrong; wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

I like a more narrow "J" - the other looks almost like a backward "L"!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 18, 2014, 08:30:23 AM
PROGRESS UPDATE!~
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 20, 2014, 03:33:02 AM
number cards are getting finished!... and new shadows!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Leif on May 20, 2014, 04:02:23 AM
I also prefer the narrow J in Joker, but I also like the stretched out R, is it possible to use those together or would that look strange?
I really admire your work on this deck, courts as well as pips. I do agree that the pips on the standard bicycle cards look inconsistent. I also wondered why they would look that way in today's world of micrometer alignment and stuff. I thought it might be that they want them to look kind of a little more "handdrawn", the standard courts also looks unsymmetrical, with varying linewidth on the border and one half different from the other.

I also like the way you show the work from the beginning, and hopefully to the happy end. You have done great with this deck.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 20, 2014, 05:12:41 AM
I also prefer the narrow J in Joker, but I also like the stretched out R, is it possible to use those together or would that look strange?
I really admire your work on this deck, courts as well as pips. I do agree that the pips on the standard bicycle cards look inconsistent. I also wondered why they would look that way in today's world of micrometer alignment and stuff. I thought it might be that they want them to look kind of a little more "handdrawn", the standard courts also looks unsymmetrical, with varying linewidth on the border and one half different from the other.

I also like the way you show the work from the beginning, and hopefully to the happy end. You have done great with this deck.

thanks for you notes. I think i get what your getting at.. ill make a joker title like that as well and post later... been up for wwwwaaaayyyy to long as it is and have to be UP again in an hour... but ill follow up . Thanks again for your kind words!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on May 23, 2014, 09:17:42 PM
the first 50 people to sign up on my email list will get a free interlace decal... I will post a picture of the first cut soon.

I'm getting very close to announcing a launch date and only few slots open for those who will get the decals with their order!  Remember this is also the list I will be using to announce the early bird specials!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: troy on May 26, 2014, 12:47:31 AM
preferences on the "J" ???

I prefer the 3rd one. However, I prefer it when all the capital letters rest on the same line, not dipping below like the J and R do.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on June 04, 2014, 06:05:14 PM
How Kings are made!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on June 07, 2014, 04:22:28 PM
Spades are almost done! only missing one...
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Shebhnt on June 07, 2014, 07:12:06 PM
Excited for this project to get finished!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: jwats01 on June 07, 2014, 09:08:21 PM
You're not the only one! Things are looking great!
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: Thirdway Industries on June 10, 2014, 12:07:46 PM
The background is very neat. I also like the carved pips.
Title: Re: "Interlace" Deck Development (Behind the scenes!)
Post by: sastian on June 11, 2014, 12:33:37 AM
A bit of news for those of you following this project. We have decided on a launch date. We are planning to turn loose our Kickstarter Page on the world on Monday, June 16th! All the pieces are falling into place and we have some pretty big announcements regarding this project. so please sign up for the street team to get early notice. and if you mention us use the hashtag #interlace. buckle your seatbelts. put your tray table in the full and upright positions, because this is going to be interesting.
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Launching on KS June 16th!
Post by: Rose on June 13, 2014, 12:10:13 AM
Congratulations on finishing the deck, it's amazing! Can you add a link to sign up? Thanks
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Launching on KS June 16th!
Post by: Don Boyer on June 13, 2014, 11:26:16 AM
Congratulations on finishing the deck, it's amazing! Can you add a link to sign up? Thanks

He has to wait for launch to do that - I think there's a difference in the URL before and after launch.  Don't worry, Rob Wright and BadPete will race each other to be the first to post it!  :))
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Launching on KS June 16th!
Post by: Rose on June 14, 2014, 11:58:37 AM
Congratulations on finishing the deck, it's amazing! Can you add a link to sign up? Thanks

He has to wait for launch to do that - I think there's a difference in the URL before and after launch.  Don't worry, Rob Wright and BadPete will race each other to be the first to post it!  :))

Awesome! Yeah I read it wrong I thought there was a sign up for an early notice happening.
I can't wait to see the whole finished deck!
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Launching on KS June 16th!
Post by: sastian on June 15, 2014, 04:07:45 PM


https://bitly.com/Monday_June_16th
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Launching on KS June 16th!
Post by: tyl3r on June 16, 2014, 10:04:32 AM
Looking forward to this!
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Launching on KS June 16th!
Post by: sastian on June 16, 2014, 09:35:31 PM
In case you missed it on the other threads, We're Live! http://bit.ly/InterlacePlayingCards
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Launching on KS June 16th!
Post by: sastian on December 09, 2014, 09:25:27 PM
The last three months were brutal, but I'm still here...... making adjustments.
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Returning to KS soon..
Post by: The London magician on May 05, 2015, 01:54:35 PM
I really like the red in the background on the back design; it blends well with the drawn image and the shading.
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Returning to KS soon..
Post by: Don Boyer on May 06, 2015, 04:04:40 AM
I really like the red in the background on the back design; it blends well with the drawn image and the shading.

If only you had liked it about eleven months sooner!  The KS campaign for this deck closed July of last year.  Christian was being very ambitious, looking to make the deck not only in two colors, but also from two companies - a total of four decks in a single project.  An experience designer with a following can pull that off, but Christian couldn't.

There should be a topic about this deck in the Playing Card Plethora - when a project finally gets off the drawing board and launches on KS, we move the conversation to there.  Ah, just found it!

http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=6711.0

BTW, welcome to the forum, seeing as how this is your first post!  When you have a chance, head over to the "Introduce Yourself" board and make a new topic for yourself so the rest of the gang can welcome you on board.
Title: Re: Interlace Deck - Returning to KS soon..
Post by: sastian on May 12, 2015, 07:09:57 PM
(http://calvinayre.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/american-poker-not-yet-dead-2.jpg)

I haven't forgotten. just have a lot of things to clear off my plate before i give this deck one more try. ;)