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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Rob Wright on November 13, 2013, 10:02:52 PM
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Dragon Dynasty Bicycle
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/749436/photo-little.jpg?1384186979) (http://kck.st/18tE2qW)
Project by Yuk Wah, London, United Kingdom
First created, £8,000 goal, Shipping included to US & UK, £8+£2 International Shipping for 1 Deck, £14+£2 for 2
Dragon Dynasty Bicycle® cards with a hint of "Traditional" Chinese power. Packed with Warriors and Dragons, NinjaStar Not Included.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/323/236/df24c37f781f20982caf8996a1610c74_large.png?1384377048)(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/317/193/84adba506ead34a74179d386c023e540_large.png?1384283091)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/317/201/8fbee7e19f969a889d5a05adde15c5ee_large.png?1384283129)(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/317/228/7cfd2aaaeef9d00388b7f4d6ebdf928c_large.png?1384283325)(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/317/205/4de3a57adfb97f75b3663f9dbcf1ac35_large.png?1384283154)
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It's nice, I guess. Clearly a first effort by an inexperienced deck designer. The shipping angle will actually help this succeed. Being able to ship to the US and the UK without charging extra is a plus, to be sure.
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I think its an above average design idea, much better than a lot of the KS decks that have been popping up. I think it will have enough appeal to get funded.
I wish them luck!
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Being able to ship to the US and the UK without charging extra is a plus, to be sure.
I agree. That can be a game changer. The other UK deck-Mr. Big, that came out today, is doing the same thing. Backers are going to see this more and more. When a deck comes out that doesn't do this. Backers are going to complain- and decks are not going to be funded.
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I don't want to be Mr. Negative but I don't see it happening. The shipping costs are there for a reason and when you drop them to help reach funding, you sabotage your self. I never wish failure upon KS designers but I've seen them come and go.
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I don't want to be Mr. Negative but I don't see it happening. The shipping costs are there for a reason and when you drop them to help reach funding, you sabotage your self. I never wish failure upon KS designers but I've seen them come and go.
It's not a matter of dropping the shipping costs - it's that the deck's creator is operating from a US base of operations AND a UK base of operations, allowing them to charge shipping to either country at the domestic rate, as well as shipping from the UK to the rest of the European Union without Customs charges payable by the backers.
There's some truth in the statement that if enough deck creators do this, the community will come to see it as the norm rather than the exception, expecting it from future overseas project creators. Those without the capability will be at a competitive disadvantage. European backers may even start to expect this from US-created decks as well, giving the US creators with a European base of operations an advantage over those without.
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The way they show the court cards makes me suspicious.
The Jack of clubs, Queen on diamonds, and King of hearts? I'll bet my hat that the court cards are all going to be the same, like the Bicycle Haunted or the Fulton October. I do love the back design, though. Simple, cool, and interesting.
Imma have to pass on this one. At least until I see more courts (if there are any).
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I like some of the little details int he design, but I do see where Don is coming from when he says looks like a new designer.
I hope the courts don't repeat, but so far it looks like that may be the case
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I don't want to be Mr. Negative but I don't see it happening. The shipping costs are there for a reason and when you drop them to help reach funding, you sabotage your self. I never wish failure upon KS designers but I've seen them come and go.
It's not a matter of dropping the shipping costs - it's that the deck's creator is operating from a US base of operations AND a UK base of operations, allowing them to charge shipping to either country at the domestic rate, as well as shipping from the UK to the rest of the European Union without Customs charges payable by the backers.
There's some truth in the statement that if enough deck creators do this, the community will come to see it as the norm rather than the exception, expecting it from future overseas project creators. Those without the capability will be at a competitive disadvantage. European backers may even start to expect this from US-created decks as well, giving the US creators with a European base of operations an advantage over those without.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/595333/photo-little.jpg?1376823086) (https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/595333/photo-little.jpg?1376823086)
Lotrek's "Venexiana" Deck was the first one that I saw us a US fulfillment partner. All of the decks are being shipped from the US. I think that was more of a necessity, because he could not start the KS project from Greece.
Having a US fulfillment company for non US projects can be huge. How many US backers do not because of the extra shipping cost. The other way around for US projects shipping International. I don't know if having a UK based fulfillment would benefit. Is it any cheaper to ship from UK to Europe, Asia, Australia, etc.? Is there enough backers in the UK to make it economically feasible? Jackson may be able to way in on this-% of UK to other International backers.
Sorry to be off track- Don, if you think this would warrant it's own thread- please split it off.
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Lotrek's "Venexiana" Deck was the first one that I saw us a US fulfillment partner. All of the decks are being shipped from the US. I think that was more of a necessity, because he could not start the KS project from Greece.
Having a US fulfillment company for non US projects can be huge. How many US backers do not because of the extra shipping cost. The other way around for US projects shipping International. I don't know if having a UK based fulfillment would benefit. Is it any cheaper to ship from UK to Europe, Asia, Australia, etc.? Is there enough backers in the UK to make it economically feasible? Jackson may be able to way in on this-% of UK to other International backers.
Sorry to be off track- Don, if you think this would warrant it's own thread- please split it off.
No, it's fine here.
While it's true that Europeans ordering from a UK operation still have shipping to deal with, they wouldn't have Customs fees due to the UK's membership in the EU - EU nations don't charge each other Customs. That itself can represent a sizable savings to the backer. As far as the rest of the world, well - it's probably cheaper to some places, not as much to others.
It's not even about there being enough backers in the UK - it's that KS now allows projects to originate in three countries: the US, the UK and Canada. I can tell you right now that the lion's share of deck buyers aren't in either Europe or North America - they're in Asia and the Pacific Island nations. China in particular is HUGE about playing cards - they originated there about 1,200 years ago and are very popular. But they can't originate KS projects in any of those countries - yet...
Again, I'm not huge on this deck, but the shipping strategy will really give it a competitive edge.
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Relaunched! ... Pierre... you're slacking ;)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yukwah/dragon-dynasty-bicycle-playing-cards-returns
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I don't want to be Mr. Negative but I don't see it happening. The shipping costs are there for a reason and when you drop them to help reach funding, you sabotage your self. I never wish failure upon KS designers but I've seen them come and go.
It's not a matter of dropping the shipping costs - it's that the deck's creator is operating from a US base of operations AND a UK base of operations, allowing them to charge shipping to either country at the domestic rate, as well as shipping from the UK to the rest of the European Union without Customs charges payable by the backers.
There's some truth in the statement that if enough deck creators do this, the community will come to see it as the norm rather than the exception, expecting it from future overseas project creators. Those without the capability will be at a competitive disadvantage. European backers may even start to expect this from US-created decks as well, giving the US creators with a European base of operations an advantage over those without.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/595333/photo-little.jpg?1376823086) (https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/595333/photo-little.jpg?1376823086)
Lotrek's "Venexiana" Deck was the first one that I saw us a US fulfillment partner. All of the decks are being shipped from the US. I think that was more of a necessity, because he could not start the KS project from Greece.
Having a US fulfillment company for non US projects can be huge. How many US backers do not because of the extra shipping cost. The other way around for US projects shipping International. I don't know if having a UK based fulfillment would benefit. Is it any cheaper to ship from UK to Europe, Asia, Australia, etc.? Is there enough backers in the UK to make it economically feasible? Jackson may be able to way in on this-% of UK to other International backers.
Sorry to be off track- Don, if you think this would warrant it's own thread- please split it off.
Sorry if this reply is a bit late but why is it American backers don't feel they should pay shipping on a couple of projects from time to time? Everyone else pays shipping on nearly every project, you think we like it? Suck it up and pay is what I say.
As for the Dragon Dynasty, buyer beware, £2 is hardly enough to cover international shipping! He won't have enough to ship these decks!
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Being Chinese, of course I'm going to be picky about this one.
The Chinese characters on the box look HORRID. Looks nothing like how they are supposed to be written. I wonder if that is a designer issue, or a "our printing machines can only print your characters like this" issue?
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Being Chinese, of course I'm going to be picky about this one.
The Chinese characters on the box look HORRID. Looks nothing like how they are supposed to be written. I wonder if that is a designer issue, or a "our printing machines can only print your characters like this" issue?
My guess is a designer error. Take the Chinese translation of Bicycle: "自行車". Shows up fine in text, and the USPCC printers can print almost anything, so long as it isn't too intricate.
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Sorry if this reply is a bit late but why is it American backers don't feel they should pay shipping on a couple of projects from time to time? Everyone else pays shipping on nearly every project, you think we like it? Suck it up and pay is what I say.
As for the Dragon Dynasty, buyer beware, £2 is hardly enough to cover international shipping! He won't have enough to ship these decks!
Victor, we DO pay. It's built into the total cost of the pledge.
American backers don't pay EXTRA because most of the projects offered are domestic for us, not international. Trust me, when it's not a US-based project, we do pay the extra for international shipping. If you don't want to pay for international shipping, convince more people to create projects in Canada. Perhaps if you talk to the Canadian equivalent of the Commerce Department, they can help you tilt at that particular windmill...
I agree that GBP2.00 sounds a bit on the light side for international shipping, but it largely depends on his profit margin and how much he's willing to cut into it. Without knowing that, it's hard to say with any accuracy if he'll have enough cash for international shipping or not. For his own sake, I hope he's taken into account the upcoming US Postal Service rate increase due before month's end. A quote from usps.com:
Highlights of the new single-piece First-Class Mail pricing, effective Jan. 26, 2014 include:
Letters (1 oz.) — 3-cent increase to 49 cents
Letters additional ounces — 1-cent increase to 21 cents
Letters to all international destinations (1 oz.) — $1.15
Postcards — 1-cent increase to 34 cents
The 1-ounce letter increase is roughly 150% the rate of inflation...
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I actually think the "Dragon Dynasty Deck Container" looks quite cool.
Other than that, these deck is not for me. The chinese characters on the tuck looks horrible. Simply using basic font and typing onto the design. Either that or a 5-year old wrote it with a stone and a ruler.
I'm not too sure about the translation of Ace = 高手, but the chinese translations for each card look like they were forgotten, and written with a magic marker pen (still, probably written by a 5-year old) after printing just because its a chinese theme deck.
The dragon looks like something Disney would use so that it is suitable for children. In fact....
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-s7jKXjAM4e4/TyCmtcfiRyI/AAAAAAAAAmk/QspJbBz7Qnw/s1600/429196-mushuwide.gif)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/519/939/4de3a57adfb97f75b3663f9dbcf1ac35_large.png?1389568296)
And the court cards....just looked like they were copied from some fake chinese historical site and pasted on. The only think i probably like is the "hidden dragon" in the number cards. I think it is an interesting idea that could be developed further.
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Creator seems desperate to find this, he's resorting to 4 decks for 10 pounds. This along with really low international shipping, 2 pounds, has me and at least one other to cancel. Last person who offered to many deals still hasn't delivered, that being Russell. So I'm not going to deal with someone who isn't going to have enough money!
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Creator seems desperate to find this, he's resorting to 4 decks for 10 pounds. This along with really low international shipping, 2 pounds, has me and at least one other to cancel. Last person who offered to many deals still hasn't delivered, that being Russell. So I'm not going to deal with someone who isn't going to have enough money!
Where do you see a tier for 10 pounds sterling? They go from 8 GBP to 11 GBP, nothing in-between. Cheapest deal I can find for four decks would be the three-deck tier (17 GBP) and one add-on deck (could be either 8 or 6 GBP, since his add-ons really aren't listed), for a total of not less than 23 GBP, more than double what you quoted, and nearly US$9.50 per deck.
Shipping at 2 pounds sterling, or nearly US$4.00, for international isn't beyond the pale, considering the costs already factored in for domestic shipping and price of the decks. It's additional to the cash they're already charging for domestic shipping, which is folded into the cost of the tier.
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There is some cool in this design. I worked on a fantasy-Samurai property for years (Legend of the Five Rings). On the good side, I like the use of screened color. On the bad side, the yellowed background misses the mark for me. I know the style the designer is going for, but he sort of missed the mark for me.
A nice deck that I'm sure a lot of folks will like, but it makes me want a Legend of the Five Rings deck - that property is super fun and over it's 20 years on the market, they have really learned how to do "Fantasy Japan" well (definitely not historical Japan, but the good stuff is all there and well done.) I have this L5R painting hanging in my office... (you can see how they mixed Japanese and Chinese references here, but in a fantasy setting, it works for me).
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Creator seems desperate to find this, he's resorting to 4 decks for 10 pounds. This along with really low international shipping, 2 pounds, has me and at least one other to cancel. Last person who offered to many deals still hasn't delivered, that being Russell. So I'm not going to deal with someone who isn't going to have enough money!
Where do you see a tier for 10 pounds sterling? They go from 8 GBP to 11 GBP, nothing in-between. Cheapest deal I can find for four decks would be the three-deck tier (17 GBP) and one add-on deck (could be either 8 or 6 GBP, since his add-ons really aren't listed), for a total of not less than 23 GBP, more than double what you quoted, and nearly US$9.50 per deck.
Shipping at 2 pounds sterling, or nearly US$4.00, for international isn't beyond the pale, considering the costs already factored in for domestic shipping and price of the decks. It's additional to the cash they're already charging for domestic shipping, which is folded into the cost of the tier.
No it is an add-on option that he posted an update about, if you add on 10 pounds you'll get 4 decks.
Personally I think this one and the Meeple are getting too desperate to get these decks funded, making too many offers with free decks and lower prices and this may cause them some financial issues in the long run, so buyer beware imo.
Giving away free decks or discounted decks just to get funded is not in the spirit of kickstarter imo and in the case of the Dragon Dynasty it is upsetting some of the early bird backers, what is the point of doing the early bird and then offering discounts at the end?
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Giving away free decks or discounted decks just to get funded is not in the spirit of kickstarter imo and in the case of the Dragon Dynasty it is upsetting some of the early bird backers, what is the point of doing the early bird and then offering discounts at the end?
Um, let's see... "Reaching the goal" comes to mind... No goal reached, no "early bird" reward to gripe over, as I see it.
There is a little wiggle room in terms of how many decks get pledged in a KS versus how many are actually printed - it has to work out that way, because they're charging perhaps $10 or more for a deck that's costing them about $3 or $4 to make. Even after shipping, there's some leftover profit and there will be "un-pledged for" decks that can be sold full price after the pledges are shipped.
It's also no unheard of for someone to have a little bonus backing not counted in the KS project's totals - bulk purchases from retailers wanting to sell the deck. It's not impossible that, assuming he received every pledge to date and the side money, he's got enough to get it made, but he couldn't count on the side money when planning the project and thus made a higher goal and hasn't reached it yet. There's a little irony in there - having all the cash needed ready and waiting, but you have to have even more cash to receive any of that cash!
Is it possible the creator is using lousy math and will go belly up? Sure. But it's not something that happens all the time. For every failed "successful" project, there's a decent number that succeed and get fulfilled without more than a slight hiccup, if anything. The bad projects stand out because they receive a good deal more notice, even from people who didn't back them. Why such a negative attitude, Victor?
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less than 3 hours left.. and only £107 from the goal!
Let's make this deck a reality! Follow the link and pick up a deck or 2
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yukwah/dragon-dynasty-bicycle-playing-cards-returns
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Wasn't trying to have a negative attitude. I've just seen other kickstarter campaigns that were poorly run and people are still waiting for decks, Russell Kercheval's come to mind. I'm sure there's others. Not saying this will end up like that, but there's nothing wrong with raising a flag.
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Wasn't trying to have a negative attitude. I've just seen other kickstarter campaigns that were poorly run and people are still waiting for decks, Russell Kercheval's come to mind. I'm sure there's others. Not saying this will end up like that, but there's nothing wrong with raising a flag.
...and there's also been a number of projects that offered specials, sales, discounts, etc. just to insure they crossed the line and were successful at all. It's hard to use the term "poorly run" for someone trying to get their deck made - as long as they're also keeping an eye on the bottom line.