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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Evan on August 31, 2012, 04:05:23 PM
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Adam from CCC posted an update on the Revision 1 deck kickstarter and it contained this photo which is a sneak peek of his next deck.
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They'll call this one, the Radioactive Steel Plate edition.
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I did a bit of photo editing and you can now see that it is a Bicycle deck!
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What does it say below the Ace of Spades? I'm reading "Army Men", but that doesn't sound right.
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What does it say below the Ace of Spades? I'm reading "Army Men", but that doesn't sound right.
Looks more like "Army Metal" but I really can't tell.
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Bicycle Army Men is also what I see
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agree with evan you can see a t there so could be army metal
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Possible New Names:
1) Bicycle - Army Men - How much do you wan to bet Adam will use this name?
2) Bicycle - Army Metal - What makes more sense
3) Bicycle - REvision2 - My personal favorite!
I, personally, believe this deck will be a rival to Sean's Surge deck. Both Sequels. Both Emerald Green. Both going to be amazing!
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was wondering how it was supposed to resemble quicksilver but soon realized it was a totally different thing :/ revision v2? cos of the architectural theme and all (The metal plates..)
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was wondering how it was supposed to resemble quicksilver but soon realized it was a totally different thing :/ revision v2? cos of the architectural theme and all (The metal plates..)
And also because Adam and Russel from Circle city cards both design separate decks but in the same company. Adam, creator of the revision 1 deck posted about this, so I suspect it'll be his project, and no Russel's.
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Judging from the green ace with the green riveted steel plates, I'm inclined to say they'll be called Bicycle Army Metal. I have to say, I'm interested. I generally love the whole CCCC line.
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On UC, CBJ wrote:
I say Bicycle Army Men
Adam Clarkson wrote:
I like this guess too....
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Pretty sure it's Army Men. The length of those words would align properly, while the longer "metal" would not fit within that space.
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They always hit it out of the park... The ace looks sick... Perhaps Russell can shed some light on the actual name...
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They always hit it out of the park... The ace looks sick... Perhaps Russell can shed some light on the actual name...
or shed SOME MORE light on the name ;D
regarding names wise, I wonder how the theme'll be like for the cards if it were either army metal or army men :-\
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Russell is not the designer of the deck. Adam Clarkson is designing it and he also designed the Revision 1.
Like I said earlier:
On UC, CBJ wrote:
I say Bicycle Army Men
Adam Clarkson wrote:
I like this guess too....
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NOW AVAILABLE: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onefreehour/bicycle-army-men-playing-cards-deck
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"Product Quality and Delivery:
These cards will be printed at the highest quality by one of the most respected plating card companies in the world. The Unites States Playing Card Company will print these cards Q1 on 325 embossed finish paper. The basic run will be 2,500 decks with more printed as needed.
This is my second Kickstarter card project (thank you!) and I have some great experience in packaging and delivery. Russell, the other designer at Circle City Cards, and I have been doing this for over year and we have a great system in place now. Most rewards are shipped out Priority Mail to ensure a safe and fast delivery." Adam T. Clarkson
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Evan, perhaps you can update the thread name to Bicycle Army Men the next deck from Circle City Cards
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That's a good idea... in about a month this could get confusing. 8)
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Just changed it. Thanks for reminding me!
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Few thoughts on this deck:
1) I do not think this deck lived up the "hype". I would have preferred if he Adam stuck to a darker theme for this deck, but who an I to judge.
2) Amazing how the deck reached nearly 50% while only up for 12 hours. It wasn't as nearly popular as Russell's, but it's still wonderful.
3) I love how Adam took a page from Russell and included some of the identical rewards as he did. Because their from the same company, I guess you can say you saw it coming.
4) How come Kickstarter doesn't come down on Adam for selling for than a brick?
5) When the stretch goals are met, what's coming next? I know Russell had a gambler's briefcase, AIP Bottle, and dices, but what will Adam come up with to meet/ exceed the expectations, if that's his idea?
*I personally would like to own a pair of Revision1 and Army Men dices next to my Brimestone and Quicksilver...just saying.
6) Does anyone know if this deck is going to have a seal on it?
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Not to my taste I'm afraid.
I really like the Ace of Spades though.
I'm sorry, I won't be pledging this time (I bought the rev1!) But good luck with the project.
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Congratulations to Adam Clarkson - the project just closed with $16,253 in funding!
Looking forward to seeing this baby in print!
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I won't be backing Adam's next project.
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I won't be backing Adam's next project.
Care to elaborate on this?
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Not much to elaborate on. It was one of the first projects I backed and there hasn't even been a survey yet. Meanwhile the Bohemia deck had multiple setbacks and I already have the deck in my hands. Many people have been ignored or had their posts on facebook deleted. It is mid February and I'm not sure what stage the cards are in. This project has mostly been a negative experience for me.
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I doubt the cards went into production before the project was funded. My guess is that they'll be going to print soon, so there isn't much to update about.
"Things are moving right along though and my projected date of February still seems very attainable."
That's his last status report. It's February now, so you'll probably see an update this month or next. The USPCC is not reliable with their printing schedules. I was promised a print date of January and didn't get my deck until April or May.
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Lack of updates =/= lack of progress.
Similar to my project (and MANY others) he had to make a couple of small last minute changes which bumped him to the end of the line. With ALL card projects this is the duldrums, the time between proofs and printing. Deck creators who actually do make posts during this time are usually filling it in with fluff and non-information. Adam chooses not to waste your time with a non-update.
As for the no surveys... How many times can different creators say it. Waiting until the last minute saves many headaches due to people moving. I was extremely clear in update #17... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1017676492/quicksilver-playing-card-deck/posts/385841 I have still had to change over 100 addresses.
In the end, people want constant updates (when there isn't that much info) and even if you do update, only 1/4 of the backers read them.
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Russell,
Whilst I think this is true of you guys, it's unfortunately not been true of other projects that have delayed and been non-responsive. Given that the last "proper" update was December and these are supposed to ship this month, there obviously can be some cause for concern. Would probably be a good idea for Adam to put out a status update just to ease concerns. A tiny bit of communication can go a long way.
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Not sure what the concern is all about, if there's nothing to update on, then there's no need for an update. Also Adam seems to be reliable and did deliver on his original deck and Russell did give us a bit of an update here on things seeing as how they are virtually partners and all. So just relax and wait.
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Allure (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/603154302/allure-playing-card-deck)
This deck was funded December 7. It will be shipping out in March. It would have been shipping this month but there was a printing error at USPCC. Still, their gilded decks are ready to go but they are waiting for the regular decks to print.
Bohemia (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1244376122/bohemia-playing-cards-deck)
This deck was funded November 5. It has already shipped in spite of 2 printing errors at USPCC.
I can post more examples but I will stick to those two.
Army Men (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onefreehour/bicycle-army-men-playing-cards-deck)
This deck was funded October 15. Way before the other two. As of right now the latest update is from December, I guess he deleted the "update" he made afterwards which wasn't much of an update. Looking at December's update though we see this:
Hey Everyone! Just wanted to pop in a post a little update on me and on the progress of the Army Men deck.
As some of you may know my wife and I got married over the summer and we just went on our honeymoon and it was wonderful! As for the Army Men the design process took a bit longer than anticipated and some changes did have to be made for them to be print ready. Things are moving right along though and my projected date of February still seems very attainable. If anything happens that could possibly cause a delay I will be sure to let you all know. Other than that we seem to be pretty much on schedule and things are going just fine. As soon I start getting proofs in from USPCC I will post some pictures, that's really when things start getting exciting.
Thanks again for everyones support!
Adam
He has not told us why he is having delays like he said he would, and he hasn't posted any proofs like he said he would. I do not know what stage this project is in and all inquiries by myself and others have been ignored or outright deleted. Just check out the comments and you will see other people are equally dissatisfied.
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Chess, I also backed this project, but I'm being a bit more patient about it.
And in the event I did have some questions, I'd probably be contacting Adam instead of posting here - have you tried his email contact at circlecitycards.com??
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The anger and frustration is quickly rising in the comments section of this project. I don't know about the rest of you but my patience is just about done with this deck. I will not be backing Adam's future projects and I will refrain from buying CCC's cards as well. I recommend the rest of you do the same. This is piss poor customer service and we shouldn't put up with it. I'm not even mad anymore, just disappointed.
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To be fair he did send out an update today and he has been having some kind of legal issues with the deck which has prevented it from being printed. Just be patient people!
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Lets play "guess what Adam has done with our money"
I hope he invested it in bitcoins or something
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Lets play "guess what Adam has done with our money"
I hope he invested it in bitcoins or something
OK Chess, I'll bite, lets play 8)
I think that my best guess is that due to a once over abundant amount of information hitting the forums on playing cards that people think they know it all now. I bet that most people ( cough** cbj ) think they can just pull some strings and get people to turn on anyone in the industry when things don't go according to plan. I'll bet that only 9% or less of this forum or others actually helped fund the deck. I'd also bet that he is ignoring your stubborn ass comments because its better than fighting in the mud with trolls.
I'll assume most of you don't know ( yeah, you don't ) that USPCC changed many policies due to the over exposure of so much info. Many times in the past decks were side lined due to legal issues and that can really eat up some time on a printing schedule. I've seen some pretty outlandish accusations on UC and other places about what Adam supposedly did with the money.
With all that said, I've spoken to Russell in the past and I don't think for a second that he would lie to anyone about a projects status or about Adam. You guys need to back off and give the man a chance to get things straight. At this point its very safe to say that he could do better updating but I'm sure there is a reason for everything. God only knows why he isn't keeping people informed but I am 100% sure that shit happens and that he could actually use some positive support. He did deliver on a very nice deck in the past.
Cheers Chess
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CHESS! Look, I sympathize, since I invested in this project as well. But has it occurred to you that the cease-and-desist letter he received from the company-who-shall-not-be-named INCLUDED a restriction against providing updates until the legal matter was settled?
Just stop with the whining - it makes you look foolish and infantile. Adam's probably blowing through thousands of HIS OWN CASH simply defending himself in this case, so for just a moment, put yourself in his shoes, consider what the hell he's dealing with, and GET OVER YOURSELF. Hiring a lawyer and dealing with a lawsuit isn't exactly the same as partying on the Riviera or buying a luxury car (or buying bitcoins); it's more like having your molars pulled out through your ears without anesthetic...
Remember, you're not "buying a deck," you're investing in a company. If investments never failed, the New York Stock Exchange would be a much different place from what it is now. But real life isn't that cut and dried. Shit happens every now and then with a Kickstarter project - it's not like making a purchase from a retailer. If this bothers you, don't make any more investments. If you want every deck you get to be a simple purchase transaction, delete Kickstarter from your bookmarks/favorites and just buy from retailers from now on.
THAT'S my guess for what Adam's done with our money!
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Thanks for the bitcoin comment, Chess. Made me laugh. :P (For those that don't know, bitcoin tanked recently)
Anyway, I don't understand why people think copyright issues are simple. It's very hard to resolve in most cases. What has Adam done with the money? Subtract 15% for fees + declined cards. Subtract 30% for taxes. Subtract any marketing costs. Subtract USPCC deposits, proofs, prototypes, etc. Subtract shipping supplies.
That's what he has spent money on so far.
The rest is probably sitting in his bank account, waiting for the okay from the USPCC legal team to print the deck.
Could he be better with updates? Yeah. Does a lack of updates mean anything when he is trying to get the Army Men (tm) legal team off his ass? No. There is no "news" in this kind of stuff except "yeah they still haven't lifted their cease and desist, soooo..."
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Turns out he spent it on his and his wife's student loans. I was close though.
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Turns out he spent it on his and his wife's student loans. I was close though.
How did you find out? Is the info reliable?
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Turns out he spent it on his and his wife's student loans. I was close though.
How did you find out? Is the info reliable?
He posted a very lengthy explanatory update to backers. In short, he messed up and spent money, now can't complete the project. He kinda-sorta offered the option for refund, but only via a self addressed stamped envelope (which pretty much eliminates refunds for international people) and they have to be postmarked by July 1.
It is, needless to say, the biggest debacle in the card Kickstarters by a long shot. A shame.
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Turns out he spent it on his and his wife's student loans. I was close though.
How did you find out? Is the info reliable?
He posted a very lengthy explanatory update to backers. In short, he messed up and spent money, now can't complete the project. He kinda-sorta offered the option for refund, but only via a self addressed stamped envelope (which pretty much eliminates refunds for international people) and they have to be postmarked by July 1.
It is, needless to say, the biggest debacle in the card Kickstarters by a long shot. A shame.
I really need to check my mail more often... And yes - the biggest. I'm curious if there will be any fallout on Russell because of this.
EDIT: I just read the backer message. Chess, you made it sound like he spent ALL of it on the student loans. He tells it a bit differently, that he spent what he had expected would be profit from the project, not the whole amount. I think he was a victim of circumstances as much as he was of his own actions - assuming everything he stated is true about the legal battle and all of that. If that battle didn't take place, he would have had the deck made promptly and it's unlikely the project would have collapsed. The increases in printing and postage also did him in. But the idea of spending "profits" before the project is even completed was not such a great one.
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For those who don't know, Adams update
Update #14 - For backers only · May 15, 2013 · 87 comments
First, let me start by apologizing for my delay in keeping you informed of the progress of this project. I know that some of you have been concerned that I was not going to follow through or offer refunds, but that is not how I do business. My first concern is always with my customer. I will be honest, that my lack of response was due to my inexperience in handling something of this magnitude and my uncertainty in how to proceed.
A series of unfortunate events and poor management has resulted in this project not coming to fruition. I hate to say this, I truly do. It saddens me; I really loved this deck and wanted it to happen. After months of waiting around to find if I could legally create the deck I was finally given permission that by changing the name, the font and the plastic army figures I could produce the deck. So I start running the numbers again with all the new and most up to date costs. What I find is that with shipping, production, packing material and add-ons the total cost would be just shy of what was actually raised after all the Amazon and Kickstarter fees. These rising production and shipping costs have no longer made this project viable. I will therefore, be offering refunds to all that pledged on this project.
It bears noting that some of the money was already spent. As there should have been a profit I took care of some student loan debt that my wife and I have both accumulated. Yes, that was a poor decision. I should have held on to all the money until the decks were produced and shipped. I’ve been brooding on this subject for a month and it eats at me constantly, I can’t sleep at night thinking about this. I’m not telling you this for your pity I just want you to know that I am not a bad person. I never set out to “scam” anyone. My mother backed this project, my friends backed this project, and my co-workers and in-laws backed this project. I am embarrassed and shamed for the things that have happened. I started with the best of intentions. I let you down. I let my mother down who spread the word about this project to all her friends. I let my father down whose company I work for and represent, I let Russell, the founder of Circle City Card Company, down as he put his reputation on the line to give me support. And again I let all of you down.
Refunds
Yes, you may receive a refund. I want to make this right and that means I will offer a refund to any of my backers. Please note that I will not be able to refund everyone’s hard earned money immediately I will have to pay it back bit by bit. Due to the way Amazon and Kickstarter operate there is no way to just click a refund button and have the money sent back to the backers. There may have been a way soon after the money was collected but at this point that is not an option. Kickstarter and Amazon will also not be refunding the fees charged to me. In order to receive a refund you must send a self-addressed stamped envelope to:
Army Deck Refund Request
PO Box 375
Whiteland, IN 46184
You must include your backer name used on Kickstarter, the amount you pledged and the self-addressed stamped envelope by July 1st 2013. Refunds will be processed in the order requests are received.
Other Notes
Honeymoon – Some have asked if all the money was spent while my wife and I were on our honeymoon. I assure you it was not. That trip was booked and paid for months before the Kickstarter campaign began with money that was received on our wedding day. The flight was paid for with frequent flyer miles and we stayed in youth hostels the whole trip. It was not the Grand Voyage some have described it to be.
Circle City Card Company – As I mentioned before Russell is the founder of this company. He helped me out as we’re both Indianapolis natives and I hurt him. I will no longer be involved with anything to do with the Circle City Card Company.
Final Thoughts
Again, I am deeply saddened for the way things turned out. I am also incredibly embarrassed for the way things have been managed. I will do all I can to make this right and dig myself out of this hole I’m in. I never wanted this to happen and I completely understand all your frustration.
Please accept my deepest and most sincere apology,
I want to thank all of you that believed in this design and supported me.
Adam
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Should be banned from Kickstarter. Just because someone is a good designer doesn't mean they can run a business. Sad to see so many people screwed over on this project.
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I posted a lengthy "what if" statement over on UC when the update was posted a couple of days back, but I'm not convinced that, as he says, he just spent the "profit". Regardless, making backers send a SASE by the cutoff date in July for the chance to get a refund is another scam. If he has $10,000, and people only request $5,000 of that back, he will have the remainder to pocket, and be free and clear of the rest of the backers, in his mind.
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Should be banned from Kickstarter. Just because someone is a good designer doesn't mean they can run a business. Sad to see so many people screwed over on this project.
He actually did have one successful KS project prior to this, Bicycle Revision 1; the theme was an architect/engineer's blueprints. On top of that, he had linked up with Russell Kercheval and his Circle City Card Company - Russ has release a handful of successful decks, either via KS, HOPC or independently. There was no reason at the time to doubt his ability to deliver.
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It was suggested to be by a few of my backers, that this might be one of the reasons why my project on Kickstarter is struggling
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It was suggested to be by a few of my backers, that this might be one of the reasons why my project on Kickstarter is struggling
That's false. Certainly there are some people dissuaded from using KS as a result of something like this, but KS gains new members every day. There are bigger projects than Bicycle Army Men that flat out never deliver and just say "lol sorry I'm keeping all the money, peace." There was one recently in the iPod accessory scene, and yet those things still sell like hot cakes. Just recently Bicycle Federal 52 proved that quality card design can bring in the big bucks.
I can't be bothered to do an analysis of your project, but odds are yours isn't doing as well as it could is because of oversaturation in the market. I'm sure you're also not marketing it as well as you could, nor are you making contacts that could help you make it go viral.
A good design, even a great design, is not enough to succeed on KS. Especially these days, so much luck and marketing is involved it's crazy.
On the subject of Adam, I didn't see this coming. I totally get the delays, the lack of communication, and even a botched final outcome in his case.
Can someone explain why international backers can't get refunds? I don't know the cost of mailing an envelope over-seas.
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Alex your right, This is all new to me, as far as marketing and the right contacts that could help
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Can someone explain why international backers can't get refunds? I don't know the cost of mailing an envelope over-seas.
He wants them to send self-addressed stamped envelopes to him to make their refund claims. Ever try buying a US stamp that isn't a philately specimen on the other side of the world? You can't send an envelope in the US with a foreign stamp.
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Alex your right, This is all new to me, as far as marketing and the right contacts that could help
What project is it? I don't have time to take on another KS project but I can advise you.
loopcuts@Gmail.com
you should also take note that Don is very creative with KS as well.
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Hey, at least this guy admitted to screwing up.
Timothy Niou (creator of the Core deck (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tniou3/core-playing-cards?ref=live))
Went completely AWOL.
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Also of note, Adam had a successful KS campaign (co-campaigner) AFTER the Army Men fiasco. Non-playing card related.
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Also of note, Adam had a successful KS campaign (co-campaigner) AFTER the Army Men fiasco. Non-playing card related.
Really? Where? All I see are his two decks, first being "Bicyle Revision 1" and second being this Army Men mess. If he created any additional projects, he's using a secret identity for them...
I got a Kickstarter questionnaire from him a week or two ago, the most unique one I've ever seen. He states about the failure of the project and asks about the refund method I prefer, giving the choices of refund through PayPal (finally), refund by SASE that you send him and "keep the money". I replied I wanted PayPal and stated further that he should do the right thing for his foreign backers and offer refunds through the method they paid him with, Amazon Payments, since not all of them can join PayPal or get a SA(US-postage)SE to send him.
The refund has not yet arrived.
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Looks like he started a project with his brother, after the Army Men deck was funded. Some kind of custom speaker system.
Link to KS project
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1969365167/bluetube-audio-vacuum-tube-amplifier-with-built-in
Link to company website
http://www.bluetubeaudio.com/pages/about-us
Updates on KS mentions delay in shipping. There is a comment from a backer about progress. Most of the pledge levels had an estimated delivery in April. Some in May.
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Rob beat me to it. Yes, it's a Bluetooth amplifier KS. I found it while reading through the Army Men mega-thread over on KS. Ironically enough, he has apparently been plenty chatty with all of the backers on that project, while (until recently) ignoring the Army Men backers. You'd think that he could use his share of the profits (if any) from the amplifier project to make things right with the AM backers.
They ended up with $69,399 with an initial goal of $35,000.
in addition to KS updates, they have a webpage for the project, and there's a blog for additional backer updates: http://www.bluetubeaudio.com/blogs/news
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Rob beat me to it. Yes, it's a Bluetooth amplifier KS. I found it while reading through the Army Men mega-thread over on KS. Ironically enough, he has apparently been plenty chatty with all of the backers on that project, while (until recently) ignoring the Army Men backers. You'd think that he could use his share of the profits (if any) from the amplifier project to make things right with the AM backers.
They ended up with $69,399 with an initial goal of $35,000.
in addition to KS updates, they have a webpage for the project, and there's a blog for additional backer updates: http://www.bluetubeaudio.com/blogs/news
I'm thinking for that project, his brother's more of a lead partner, which would be a big reason how it's managed to stay on track.
Adam's had what could only be considered a "cascade failure" on this project, as I see it. He had the cease-and-desist to deal with and it was a real issue. It probably did hold him up from being more open and honest about the goings-on - plus I'm sure an attorney had to be hired and paid for. Then he needed cash and took what he assumed would be profits and spent it on student loans, was it? As time dragged on, he had more issues - USPC raised their rates to make the cards while the USPS raised their rates to send them in the mail. It took so long to come to an agreement with whomever was arguing trademarks with him that this was the final straw that caused the whole thing to go down the tubes. It's entirely possible that even if he hadn't borrowed against his KS income, the project would still have crashed because of that.
In theory, yes, he could have done what the Bicycle Black Tie project did - and I recommend that deck, it's very cool - and created a second KS project to help the first when the money fell short. But I guess he believed that he'd already "poisoned the well" in terms of dealing with his backers in a manner they would have considered "in good faith". The lack of communications created a wedge that was driven deep between him and most of them.
I can only imagine what the hell is going on with Bicycle: the CORE, Tim Niou's project. He showed photos of the shipment of cards from USPC, so they got made - and he and his cards proceeded to vanish from Kickstarter, never to be heard from again. The current theory is that college and finals kept him too busy to deal with it all - but how on earth would that have stopped him from firing off a quick update, along the lines of "Sorry, gang, I'm still alive but swamped with work, I'll get your cards to you after this dies down." At the worst, he could have sacrificed brushing his teeth one evening, because that's bout as long as such an update would have taken...
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Just packing/shipping 5 packages a day would have shown good intent, and would have kept most backers satisfied that better days/more packages shipped would be ahead. I didn't pledge on that one either, but I have been following it with fascination as well. It's hard to imagine those boxes of cards on the pallets, just jammed into a corner with junk piled on top of them! I'm sure that when two pallets show up, and you open one box and see the dozens of cards inside, that can get VERY overwhelming in a HURRY, but still. Any effort is better than no effort, at least in my eyes.
As for Army Men, I would still use my share of amp profits to make things right. I wouldn't be able to sleep otherwise and based on the stress that he claims that he has gone through as a result of this failure, I don't see how he could think anything other than repayment to backers. It's easy to say when you're in different shoes although the second project, even with his brother potentially running the show, with the tons of extra money and updates on multiple sites has to be a tough pill to swallow for the poor Army Men backers.
He'd better do the right thing, and quick. If anyone follows through on the lawsuit, he will be in a MUCH bigger world of hurt, in very short order. Hanfree as the precedent looms large over him.
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I was not around for the Army Men project, but I would have backed it. I think it was a really cool project. You would think Adam would have checked on copyright issues before going on KS. One wonders if he spoke to USPC first. I would think that someone there would have said something. I think this goes back to a lot of project designers not doing enough research. This could of been a great project for him, but appears was doomed from the beginning. In all fairness to Adam. The speaker project came out right after the Army Men project was funded, and before it failed.
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Isn't he offering PayPal refunds now?
EDIT: Also, refunding $16k or whatever he raised at once is a huge undertaking. Even for a company like Ellusionist it would be a massive blow, but in his case KS and Amazon already took their fees (about 8-10%). Add to that any costs he may have encountered during pre-production, and I could see why it would be an issue for him to come up with $2-3k right off the bat. I am not sure what the current tax laws are, but if the project ended in 2012 then he has already paid income tax on the money.
On the other hand, not every backer will want a refund. I had backers that paid but never responded to surveys, so naturally I am sure backers won't respond to his survey either.
I hope this info gives you guys a little perspective about what's going on behind the scenes.
Also, manually refunding via PayPal is still a fucking nightmare. Pages take ages to load, it logs you out every couple minutes, you have to manually verify every refund request to its backer, etc. **It fucking baffles me that KS/Amazon have no method of reversing charges!**
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He'd better do the right thing, and quick. If anyone follows through on the lawsuit, he will be in a MUCH bigger world of hurt, in very short order. Hanfree as the precedent looms large over him.
Actually, he probably is within what's required under his state's law - if he had to retain a lawyer to deal with the copyright issues, I'm sure he consulted about this as well. By the time any lawsuit would wind its way through the courts, he will likely have met most if not all of his legal obligations. But should he fail to do so, then he's got problems.
I was not around for the Army Men project, but I would have backed it. I think it was a really cool project. You would think Adam would have checked on copyright issues before going on KS. One wonders if he spoke to USPC first. I would think that someone there would have said something. I think this goes back to a lot of project designers not doing enough research. This could of been a great project for him, but appears was doomed from the beginning. In all fairness to Adam. The speaker project came out right after the Army Men project was funded, and before it failed.
It's not always so cut and dried. I wonder whether it would even be USPC doing the research regarding the ownership of the copyrights on your deck - I'd bet they have some clause in their contract that puts the onus on the creator and holds him/her responsible if things go south. Alex would know better than I would.
Isn't he offering PayPal refunds now?
EDIT: Also, refunding $16k or whatever he raised at once is a huge undertaking. Even for a company like Ellusionist it would be a massive blow, but in his case KS and Amazon already took their fees (about 8-10%). Add to that any costs he may have encountered during pre-production, and I could see why it would be an issue for him to come up with $2-3k right off the bat. I am not sure what the current tax laws are, but if the project ended in 2012 then he has already paid income tax on the money.
On the other hand, not every backer will want a refund. I had backers that paid but never responded to surveys, so naturally I am sure backers won't respond to his survey either.
I hope this info gives you guys a little perspective about what's going on behind the scenes.
Also, manually refunding via PayPal is still a fucking nightmare. Pages take ages to load, it logs you out every couple minutes, you have to manually verify every refund request to its backer, etc. **It fucking baffles me that KS/Amazon have no method of reversing charges!**
He is offering PayPal refunds, but he's also stating that PayPal is available everywhere to everyone, at least in a message to me. I know that's not the case - it SHOULD have been easier to refund through Amazon Payments, emphasis on SHOULD.
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You'd think that given that very afternoon after requesting a self addressed stamped envelope, one went out to him, or within hours of requesting the paypal email, he received it, I may have been one of the first in line to receive the refund that was promised... No such luck as of yet... Think he's sore about the whole FBI thing???
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You'd think that given that very afternoon after requesting a self addressed stamped envelope, one went out to him, or within hours of requesting the paypal email, he received it, I may have been one of the first in line to receive the refund that was promised... No such luck as of yet... Think he's sore about the whole FBI thing???
The project had over 600 backers. Even if fifteen percent never asked for anything back, you'd still have a chance of about 0.2% of being the first request, or 10% of being one of the first fifty - notwithstanding the timeliness of your request, of course. Regardless, only one of the 605 of us can be first, and only ten of us can be the first ten, etc.
If I was a betting man, I'd bet he's trying to hang on to the money for as long as legally possible in order to earn the maximum amount of "float" (interest) he can on it. While it's probably not enough to make up for the funding shortfall by itself, it could make enough of a dent that it would help him to a noticeable degree.
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Adam is issuing Paypal refunds btw, I got mine today and it looks quite a few others have as well.
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As I was quite vocal regarding my opinions of Adam, I will be one of the first to admit that I received an entire refund today. I thank Adam for being an honorable person and refunding my pledge. It was the right thing to do and for me balance has somewhat been restored. I hope you all have similar experiences and receive back the funds you are owed. Good luck and happy collecting...
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Adam is issuing Paypal refunds btw, I got mine today and it looks quite a few others have as well.
I haven't yet, but as I stated, only one person can be first, right?
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I've received my refund yesterday.