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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: xZEROx on March 20, 2012, 10:28:22 PM
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Just another one of those clip art decks from merz listed on eBay today.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Bicycle-Tiger-Deck-Playing-Cards-Tiger-Skin-Back-Design-Black-White-Yellow-/200731296922?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebc84849a
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This may be his worst one yet :mindf-ck: :(
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Ah, Merz. The perfect example of how picking up every deck that is released is the worst decision a collector could make. $0.99 sounds about right, he's gone and butchered the standard bicycle! Just neet to get that shipping down to free shipping and it should be good to go.
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First it was the Zebra deck and now this? It would be one thing if his decks looked good... but they look like crap!
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Regardless, one of you have bid on it! >.<
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Ugly piece of sh*t. I have to admit I actually thought the Trace Series wasn't bad, although it was extremely overpriced, but I would never, ever buy these for any more than 3$.
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Oh, come on. The jokers look cute. Stolen, but cute. The second tiger was from "Kung Fu Panda" if memory serves. The first one looks like a knock-off of Tigg-ger from Pooh. It would be a hoot to bid on if the shipping was a bit lower.
I think the images used are far enough away from the originals that he doesn't have to license them.
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Hahahaha!!!!! Once again... Fail... What is it? Do you think that he relies on newbie card collectors to find his stuff on eBay and say, "I've got to have that one." I must admit, before I knew any better I fell for a few Merz tricks... Thankfully I returned what came damaged due to poor packing and the rest of the decks that were just bogus... For Example... He was selling the It's a Boy and It's a Girl Decks... From what it looked like on the picture, It looked as if the deck was released by Bicycle and had the slogans printed on the actual deck... I received a light blue and a light pink deck with two DIFFERENT stickers than what he posted online... Yes two stickers that he slapped on the cellophane and called them the It's a Boy and It's a Girl edition... Classic Merz... He also sold me two decks that he listed as League Backs, but when they arrived, they were Pinochle Decks (Nowhere was that mentioned)... For lack of a using some bad words - What a character... If he was the last card supplier on earth, I'd call my collecting finished and find a new hobby (not joking)...
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It is bad that someone can consistantly make these horrible designs and still keep going :( I remember when I was first starting to collect I saw the Zebra deck by Merz and really liked it, never bought it. Thank God! :)
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Oh, come on. The jokers look cute. Stolen, but cute. The second tiger was from "Kung Fu Panda" if memory serves. The first one looks like a knock-off of Tigg-ger from Pooh. It would be a hoot to bid on if the shipping was a bit lower.
I think the images used are far enough away from the originals that he doesn't have to license them.
A quick search for 'samurai tiger' shows up the image for the secon joker (http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/429334/429334,1245497014,6/stock-vector-tiger-in-traditional-samurai-clothing-32353894.jpg). However, it's from Shutterstock meaning that the image is royalty free; i.e. you can use it wherever you want without any copyright problems. That is, of course, permitting that he has a paid Shutterstock account. As you can see, the images have watermarks on them and you have to be registered to download the actual image.
I don't know where the first came from, but I would imagine most of his images come from royalty-free databases. I'm guessing the USPCC has a process of checking for copyright on cards as part of the normal pre-printing anyway.
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Those are atrocious its a shame because the back isnt terrible... well if they made it orange without the black I even think itd look great. I havnt heard of this guy before but he has certainly lost any respect I could of had for him.
Edit: just realised he didnt actually make the deck lol
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Those are atrocious its a shame because the back isnt terrible... well if they made it orange without the black I even think itd look great. I havnt heard of this guy before but he has certainly lost any respect I could of had for him.
Edit: just realised he didnt actually make the deck lol
I'm not going into a huge rant as I have in the past, but yes, Merz67 does indeed order these horrible decks up from USPC. The trail of deck turds gets longer and longer with time...
I don't condone the way he markets these things, but it's a caveat emptor kind of world out there.
And I have to admit: when you want some straight-up unique playing card products that aren't easy to find, he sometimes has them at a good price. He's often one of the cheaper retailers, though he doesn't carry a lot of the other limited-edition hyper-rare bits and bobs that the other sites do. (I guess he thought it would cut into business for his own "rare" decks.) I've heard bad stories from others who've ordered from him, but I haven't had any issues yet. As long as you know what you're buying, it's good to go.
Hahahaha!!!!! Once again... Fail... What is it? Do you think that he relies on newbie card collectors to find his stuff on eBay and say, "I've got to have that one." I must admit, before I knew any better I fell for a few Merz tricks... Thankfully I returned what came damaged due to poor packing and the rest of the decks that were just bogus... For Example... He was selling the It's a Boy and It's a Girl Decks... From what it looked like on the picture, It looked as if the deck was released by Bicycle and had the slogans printed on the actual deck... I received a light blue and a light pink deck with two DIFFERENT stickers than what he posted online... Yes two stickers that he slapped on the cellophane and called them the It's a Boy and It's a Girl edition... Classic Merz... He also sold me two decks that he listed as League Backs, but when they arrived, they were Pinochle Decks (Nowhere was that mentioned)... For lack of a using some bad words - What a character... If he was the last card supplier on earth, I'd call my collecting finished and find a new hobby (not joking)...
I've actually heard of these "It's a Boy" and "It's a Girl" decks before I knew Merz67 existed. Are you sure that wasn't USPC's design idea with slapping stickers on pink and light blue decks? As far as the Pinochle decks... Well, like I said, some have had bad experiences with him.
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@Don... No... Merz took the Pastel Bicycle Decks and placed stickers, ones that didn't even match the pic or each other... One was metallic pink and the other pastel blue and when I asked him how he could dare sell such a deck, he asked me to return them... He refunded my $ both for the scam decks and the damaged decks, because this guy never packs anything appropriately... With regard to $, I will say that he was honorable in refunding me what he should have... However, that does not excuse his business practices of trying to rip off any unknowing party that gets involved with him... For everyone with a refund, I'm sure there's someone with a complete series of Trace Decks, Zebra Decks, Tiger Decks, and Tie Dye Decks not understanding what they just bought...
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@Don... No... Merz took the Pastel Bicycle Decks and placed stickers, ones that didn't even match the pic or each other... One was metallic pink and the other pastel blue and when I asked him how he could dare sell such a deck, he asked me to return them... He refunded my $ both for the scam decks and the damaged decks, because this guy never packs anything appropriately... With regard to $, I will say that he was honorable in refunding me what he should have... However, that does not excuse his business practices of trying to rip off any unknowing party that gets involved with him... For everyone with a refund, I'm sure there's someone with a complete series of Trace Decks, Zebra Decks, Tiger Decks, and Tie Dye Decks not understanding what they just bought...
But that's the thing - you're a high-end and knowledgeable collector. Some people just want them for whatever personal reasons.
The "It's a Kid" decks - maybe some happy dad who doesn't smoke cigars decided it would be a fun way to celebrate and less expensive than a fine batch of hand-wrapped smokes. The Tiger deck - maybe someone's got a significant other who's insanely into tigers.
I can damn near guarantee you that few if any of those whacked-out decks sell at the initial asking price. The average card player would balk at any deck costing more than five bucks, and the average collector with a head on his shoulders knows better. It's the collectors who buy stuff blindly just because they're advertised as rare that get the short end of the stick, but it's no different that the fools who buy "genuine" foreign currency celebrating events in American history with a "14-carat gold-clad" coin on TV. They're idiots, always were, always will be - more cash than brains. In such cases, the market is downright Darwinian; the cash doesn't last forever, and the crap bought with it is barely worth the material cost of its manufacture, never mind the original sale price.
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I can't imagine how much this guy has spent to put out all these different decks. Since USPCC has a minimum run requirement, is it possible to print several designs under one run of cards? For example he had a contract to have 5000 decks printed but it consisted of say 25 different deck designs. It just seems like printing plates would be costly in that scenario. Anyway, i'm sure there are people out there who are buying them for whatever reason. I, myself, can't seem to find a reason to buy any from him.
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I can't imagine how much this guy has spent to put out all these different decks. Since USPCC has a minimum run requirement, is it possible to print several designs under one run of cards? For example he had a contract to have 5000 decks printed but it consisted of say 25 different deck designs. It just seems like printing plates would be costly in that scenario. Anyway, i'm sure there are people out there who are buying them for whatever reason. I, myself, can't seem to find a reason to buy any from him.
It's not impossible to get shorter runs from USPC, but most shorter runs are farmed out to third-party printers. One way or another, he's spending cash to get them made, but the typical "clip art" deck like this couldn't possibly cost a lot to make, really. It's why he likes to introduce his decks to the market at some fantastic multiple of what they cost to make - all he needs to sell is a handful of those to pay for the entire print run.
To my knowledge (which admittedly is limited), the only person who got to "switch" the deck in the middle of a print run was David Blaine, when making the blue, rainbow and red White Lions decks. He was permitted to supervise the printing to insure quality control and was permitted to swap out the blue ink for red in mid-run - hence the reason for the inconsistently-colored purple "rainbow" decks. It didn't involve any swapping out of printing plates, so the work required would have been much less - and I'm sure he paid a heavy price for even that privilege.
Merz much be making these decks in really short runs - just not in the Erlanger USPC plant.
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Man, I really didn't think his decks could get worse.
Merz, for the love of God... please stop
CBJ
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If this guy can succeed then there is something seriously broken in the card collector market and people need to get their heads put on straight. I wouldn't even purchase that to give to a toddler to rip to shreds. Unfathomably horrible.
I'm not generally prone to cussing, but holy f$#@.
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Who said he was a successful card designer? For all we know, his web-based retail operation is funding his playing cards.
We all know his decks are horrible. At this point I'm tired of making the point. It's like beating a dead horse's shattered skeleton, so long rotting in the sun that it's devoid of flesh. Ain't no point left in it.
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I can`t wait to see the Tiger V2 that will come out in 2 days with an inverted back and different jokers, then the Siberian Tiger with a white back ;)
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And now it's at $18.50..
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The jokers really make me smile ;D ;D ;D
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Almost 21$ now... How high do you think it will go? Also do you think this is a prototype or did he print a couple hundred?
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Likely to go up to around $40, just like the others.
I don't think it's a prototype, he probably printed a small amount of them, just like the others. Couple hundred sounds like a good number to me.
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Likely to go up to around $40, just like the others.
I don't think it's a prototype, he probably printed a small amount of them, just like the others. Couple hundred sounds like a good number to me.
Doesn't USPCC not allow that from small producers?
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I don't think so. You just have to pay a premium price for a small print run.
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I don't think so. You just have to pay a premium price for a small print run.
That's weird. Because I remember Don and Alex both said USPCC didn't allow runs smaller than 5000 decks for individuals or small companies.
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I don't think so. You just have to pay a premium price for a small print run.
That's weird. Because I remember Don and Alex both said USPCC didn't allow runs smaller than 5000 decks for individuals or small companies.
When I contacted them they told me the minimum was 2500, but they only changed it recently.
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I'm not sure how is going about getting these printed. I was told 2500 minimum, 5000 was generally standard for a "small" limited run.
There is a lot of setup and prepress work to get a deck ready, and I suppose that if you really want to pay for it you can get less printed, but 4-color large press work really is a numbers game. It's so much work to get going that it just doesn't make financial or time sense to do all that for 500 decks. Of course, what his cards seem to sell for makes no financial sense either, so I guess anything is possible.
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As I stated, smaller print runs get shopped out to other companies. Because he's apparently willing to pay to get his decks made with the USPC imprint and likely paying a premium per-deck price, USPC may be more willing to work with him, especially since he's creating a lot of different designs - it would be something else if he was a kid from nowhere who only wanted a few hundred of his one-of-a-kind art deck, probably the only deck he'll ever make. Eight Trace decks, Six RW&B decks, the Tie Dye, and a few others - it's hard for even a good-sized company to turn away that much repeat business.
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As per request, here's another deck from merz.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Bicycle-Snake-Deck-Playing-Cards-Cobra-Skin-Back-Design-Black-Mint-Green-/190656353163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6401138b (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Bicycle-Snake-Deck-Playing-Cards-Cobra-Skin-Back-Design-Black-Mint-Green-/190656353163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6401138b)
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Just when I think he couldn't get worse, he does. That Snake deck is godsawful.
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hahha what`s next?? scorpion?? shark??crocodile??bear?human??
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Everyone better stop playin' - You know you love this deck... Merz finally turned it around!!! Cobra's for life... "Sweep the leg..." Anyone?
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Everyone better stop playin' - You know you love this deck... Merz finally turned it around!!! Cobra's for life... "Sweep the leg..." Anyone?
Dude, ya killin' me...
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I just picked up a couple of bricks.
Now, someone tell me his address so I can throw them through his window.
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I can`t wait to see the Tiger V2 that will come out in 2 days with an inverted back and different jokers, then the Siberian Tiger with a white back ;)
Nah, v2 is T11's schtick. He wouldn't want to devalue the original by making a v2. Now, if it was "second of a limited edition series"...
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Lol that snake one is just horrible haha, why does he do this, and a better question is WHO BUYS THESE?!
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You all seem to not like these decks, but if you could elaborate on what exactly you don't like about them it may help the rest of us... Just stating that you don't like a Merz deck is of no help to anyone... Is it the fact that the pattern is just horrid, or perhaps the white trace outline of the rider back is just a mess when mixed with these disgusting animal prints... Maybe it's the stolen artwork placed on arguably the most important cards in the deck... Please elaborate people... Just stating that you don't like the Merz Animal Print series doesn't help anyone at all... Hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!
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You all seem to not like these decks, but if you could elaborate on what exactly you don't like about them it may help the rest of us... Just stating that you don't like a Merz deck is of no help to anyone... Is it the fact that the pattern is just horrid, or perhaps the white trace outline of the rider back is just a mess when mixed with these disgusting animal prints... Maybe it's the stolen artwork placed on arguably the most important cards in the deck... Please elaborate people... Just stating that you don't like the Merz Animal Print series doesn't help anyone at all... Hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!
I've stated enough times around here why Merz67 decks suck that people are sick of hearing it by now. Do some keyword searches for my posts about Merz67, and settle in with a nice pot of tea and a comfy spot to sit, since it will take a good long while to finish reading them all. Take any and all comments I made about any one of his decks and apply them to ALL of his decks, since they're ALL made exactly the same way. If you fed ordinary decks to a recycling machine to get new paper, these decks would be what the machine craps out between meals as waste.
By making them artificially rare, he's trying to con buyers into paying top dollar for them. He doesn't generally get those prices, since most of the decks he offers on eBay either go unsold or (I believe) get shill-bid up by him only to end up sold back to him in the end. He tries using those artificially-inflated eBay sales to price his decks that high, but eventually starts knocking down the price as people still don't fall for it. The first four Trace decks were selling for some insane price, like $50 or $60 a piece, $200 for a set, when they first came out. They've since been retailing through him (the "exclusive retailer") for less than half that, and only fools will pay even those prices. Smart collectors know better, ordinary card players think anything more than a pack of Standard Bikes is overpriced - he's aiming for the narrow band of suckers in-between.
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As per request, here's another deck from merz.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Bicycle-Snake-Deck-Playing-Cards-Cobra-Skin-Back-Design-Black-Mint-Green-/190656353163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6401138b (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Bicycle-Snake-Deck-Playing-Cards-Cobra-Skin-Back-Design-Black-Mint-Green-/190656353163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6401138b)
Haha I was about to make a new thread for these... Guess not! :P
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If anyone cares... the original 4 trace decks are now $40 for the 4 decks set.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-4-New-Rare-Trace-Decks-Blue-Red-Gold-Silver-Bicycle-Playing-Cards-/120829584862?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c220125de
and the Red White and Blue 6 decks set is $72 ($12 per deck)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Lot-6-Bicycle-Red-White-Blue-Deck-Series-1-2-3-4-5-6-Playing-Cards-Magic-/200691243195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eba2158bb
CBJ
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If anyone cares... the original 4 trace decks are now $40 for the 4 decks set.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-4-New-Rare-Trace-Decks-Blue-Red-Gold-Silver-Bicycle-Playing-Cards-/120829584862?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c220125de
and the Red White and Blue 6 decks set is $72 ($12 per deck)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Lot-6-Bicycle-Red-White-Blue-Deck-Series-1-2-3-4-5-6-Playing-Cards-Magic-/200691243195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eba2158bb
CBJ
Cut that price in half and I honestly believe they are just as good as any T11 deck.
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If anyone cares... the original 4 trace decks are now $40 for the 4 decks set.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-4-New-Rare-Trace-Decks-Blue-Red-Gold-Silver-Bicycle-Playing-Cards-/120829584862?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c220125de (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-4-New-Rare-Trace-Decks-Blue-Red-Gold-Silver-Bicycle-Playing-Cards-/120829584862?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c220125de)
and the Red White and Blue 6 decks set is $72 ($12 per deck)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Lot-6-Bicycle-Red-White-Blue-Deck-Series-1-2-3-4-5-6-Playing-Cards-Magic-/200691243195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eba2158bb (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Lot-6-Bicycle-Red-White-Blue-Deck-Series-1-2-3-4-5-6-Playing-Cards-Magic-/200691243195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eba2158bb)
CBJ
Cut that price in half and I honestly believe they are just as good as any T11 deck.
I would buy the trace decks at the price they are at now, but I do think they'll drop a couple more dollars.
They'll never go down to the $5 price point that you mentioned...unfortunately.
But if they hit $8 per deck... [ ADD TO CART ]
CBJ
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If anyone cares... the original 4 trace decks are now $40 for the 4 decks set.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-4-New-Rare-Trace-Decks-Blue-Red-Gold-Silver-Bicycle-Playing-Cards-/120829584862?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c220125de (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-4-New-Rare-Trace-Decks-Blue-Red-Gold-Silver-Bicycle-Playing-Cards-/120829584862?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c220125de)
and the Red White and Blue 6 decks set is $72 ($12 per deck)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Lot-6-Bicycle-Red-White-Blue-Deck-Series-1-2-3-4-5-6-Playing-Cards-Magic-/200691243195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eba2158bb (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Lot-6-Bicycle-Red-White-Blue-Deck-Series-1-2-3-4-5-6-Playing-Cards-Magic-/200691243195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eba2158bb)
CBJ
Cut that price in half and I honestly believe they are just as good as any T11 deck.
I would buy the trace decks at the price they are at now, but I do think they'll drop a couple more dollars.
They'll never go down to the $5 price point that you mentioned...unfortunately.
But if they hit $8 per deck... [ ADD TO CART ]
CBJ
And I think the American 6 deck series are actually pretty smart, with cool add-on cards, recolored pips etc.
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Alright, who are you two and what have you done with Jay and Nathan!?
OK, Jay, I understand, sort of - he's hopelessly addicted to the fumes coming from Bicycle air-cushion stock...
But these decks are terrible. I'd sooner buy Standard Bikes at any price. I'm sure they handle fine, as well as any other basic Bike deck, but the clip art? And the cheesy color schemes, ESPECIALLY in the RW&B series? Nathan, you could design a better deck while sleeping! I have no real design skills and I could design a better deck while sleeping and medicated!
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Lol @Don, add me to the list. I'm with Jay there.
We've been keeping an eye on his sets, and waiting until the price is acceptable to purchase.
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Lol @Don, add me to the list. I'm with Jay there.
We've been keeping an eye on his sets, and waiting until the price is acceptable to purchase.
Please - come with me and I can help you fight the lure of the Dark Side... It's not too late! ;D
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Alright, who are you two and what have you done with Jay and Nathan!?
OK, Jay, I understand, sort of - he's hopelessly addicted to the fumes coming from Bicycle air-cushion stock...
But these decks are terrible. I'd sooner buy Standard Bikes at any price. I'm sure they handle fine, as well as any other basic Bike deck, but the clip art? And the cheesy color schemes, ESPECIALLY in the RW&B series? Nathan, you could design a better deck while sleeping! I have no real design skills and I could design a better deck while sleeping and medicated!
Lol @Don, add me to the list. I'm with Jay there.
We've been keeping an eye on his sets, and waiting until the price is acceptable to purchase.
Please - come with me and I can help you fight the lure of the Dark Side... It's not too late! ;D
Haha you made me lol. You've just gotta understand. Their not much worse than any T11 deck, so why not just buy 1 for the sake of it. For 8$, these look cool. I mean, I would rather have a brick of bikes than 1 of these, but they are fun, and having one seems fun, especially to make fun of and see all the weeknesses.
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Everytime I see a new Merz deck my brain hurts! I think he is randomly selecting objects and animals as deck subjects and then matching them up with an online random generator....next deck....the Lawnmower deck with a clip art IceCream cone Joker and Wiley Coyote on the Ace of Spades!
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Haha you made me lol. You've just gotta understand. Their not much worse than any T11 deck, so why not just buy 1 for the sake of it. For 8$, these look cool. I mean, I would rather have a brick of bikes than 1 of these, but they are fun, and having one seems fun, especially to make fun of and see all the weeknesses.
...thus further convincing Merz67 that his designs are actually in demand, encouraging him to make more! It's a vicious cycle. Please, step into the light - it's not too late! :))
Everytime I see a new Merz deck my brain hurts! I think he is randomly selecting objects and animals as deck subjects and then matching them up with an online random generator....next deck....the Lawnmower deck with a clip art IceCream cone Joker and Wiley Coyote on the Ace of Spades!
Nah, never Wile E. Coyote - but a good look-alike that doesn't infringe on trademarks and copyrights, perhaps! He would never use artwork that he'd actually have to PAY someone for...
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So who's buying these???
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I probably will then they're down to <$10 per deck.
Just so everyone knows, the Tiger deck went for $27.
And merz's listed it as a BIN item:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190659626703
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To those of you who actually want to buy them, well - I hope you enjoy them. I know that I never could.
I'm glad that I'm not locked into a state of mind that tells me I must buy each and every deck with the name brand "Bicycle" on it. Or any particular deck, for that matter, especially ones that I don't really like, just because of the brand name on them.
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So who's buying these???
So far me, CBJ and Zero. I think but may be mistaken that Aaron also wanted to buy some after the price drop.
Does any one know if he is officially doing an "animal series"?
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I know I shouldn't fuel the Merz fire.. but when he has released 18 Bicycle decks over the last year, and I only have 1 one of them... it's hard to ignore.
That's like being an Amazing Spider-Man comic collector, and skipping some issues because a different artist/writer that you really don't like took over for an 18 issue story arc. There would be a massive hole in your collection.
I take the good with the bad... the Diavoli decks.. some of the magicMakers decks (spider).. some of the Karnival decks, etc..
I just can't leave out 17 decks out of a Bicycle collection.
I know... I'm obsessed
CBJ
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I know I shouldn't fuel the Merz fire.. but when he has released 18 Bicycle decks over the last year, and I only have 1 one of them... it's hard to ignore.
That's like being an Amazing Spider-Man comic collector, and skipping some issues because a different artist/writer that you really don't like took over for an 18 issue story arc. There would be a massive hole in your collection.
I take the good with the bad... the Diavoli decks.. some of the magicMakers decks (spider).. some of the Karnival decks, etc..
I just can't leave out 17 decks out of a Bicycle collection.
I know... I'm obsessed
CBJ
As long as it makes you happy, isn't illegal and doesn't drive you to poverty, well...enjoy!
Now I have a new career model - create unique, rare Bicycle decks just to get people like you to buy them from me!