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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Design & Development => Topic started by: ReaganM on February 14, 2012, 01:17:13 PM
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Ok so for my next deck of cards I want to take most of my advice from you guys, with my last deck of cards I didnt really listen to peoples needs before I made the project on kickstarter (10 days left, in my sig) . The type of deck Im going for is mainly for poker players, with classy art and card stock that can withstand a thousand uses and great handeling. Here is what I came up with so far, keep in mind this is a VERY early rendition of the art, and everything is up for change.
Cardstock: Archduke quality plastic.
Ink: The gold border and monkey rings will use metallic ink.
The art:
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/kingmonkeycopy5.png)
One will come in gold and one in silver.
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Although I'm not a big fan of plastic decks, I feel that this looks great, but if this is the back, I feel it should be a two way back, so possibly have the gorilla on both sides mirrored. other then that, this looks great, and is a very promising start. Goodluck :)
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It's kind of creepy, and also 20$ for 2 decks seems like a lot, especially if domestic shipping isn't included, but it looks like a nice start! Also, I think you should also have a pledge for 1 deck, only very limited, because I think many people will only be willing to buy 1 deck and no more.
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$20 for 2 decks isn't outrageously priced for plastic cards. Take a look at the price tags on Bicycle Prestige or Kem cards.
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I suppose I could do them for less maybe 15$ but the thing is it costs about 4-5$ per deck to print. And there will be a pledge for 1 deck. What do you guys feel about the whole copag vs KEM thing?
Also I understand that magicians and shady people like one way backs so they can mark their cards, but how much of the card doe they actually need to see? I thought that maybe this ape was far enough in the middle that it wouldnt matter, but then again I dont know much on ways to cheat etc.
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I do like the design, but if you are designing this deck to be used for poker, I seriously advise against a one-way back, even a subtle one. The subtle one-way backs are nice for magicians cause we can flip a card and then spot it without anyone knowing how. The obvious one-way backs, they scream novelty more than anything. I feel like anything that's just clearly a one way back is just a little too gift-shop esque, but that's my opinion. I vote for 2 monkeys.
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Ok I submit, 2 monkeys. Should have the second draw up tonight. What about the diamonds in the back should I keep them the same size or make them smaller? If im shrinking the monkeys heads im thinking smaller, like bee size.
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I agree with smaller. But Bee sized? That might be too small, I'm not sure. Again on the one-way vs. two way. Like I said, I'm not opposed to subtle one-way backs as a performer, but I don't really think they have a home at a poker table. If anyone disagrees, feel free to prove me otherwise.
That said, I love the shading on the yellow borders, any chance you could 'symmetricalize' it? Right now, the top right corner is darker than the bottom left, an inverted card would stick out like a sore thumb in the middle of the deck if you were to give the cards even the slightest bevel.
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Yeah I could do that too. Ill ad it to my second draw up.
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I would ignore magicians completely for this project; you can't sell magicians plastic cards. Best to leave that out of the equation (and handling with it).
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I would go for a 2-way back. If you want to make the monkeys smaller in order to double them up, I suggest you make the diamonds a TINY bit smaller. But I like the fact that the diamonds are much bigger than the monkey. It makes the back look very contrasting.
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Definitely smaller diamonds and 2 monkeys to make it a 2 way back.
$20 for 2 decks is a lot and would make me stay away from the deck.
I like the design a lot so far... what software are you using on it, it looks 3d
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Unfourtunantly I cant do much about the price because that is about as cheap as I can get it. The 20$ includes free shipping to USA and youd only havve to ad maybe 5$ for international shipping. The most I could do Is a limited peir 15$ per 2 decks.
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Well $15 is significantly better than $20
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NO! $20 is a STEAL for 2 plastic decks of KEM card quality. KEM cards are amazing, last forever, and a set of them ( not custom) retail for $30, so please, if you think for a second that $20 is overpriced, you are very misinformed.
http://www.kem.com/cards/ARROW-CONS-BLK-GLD.html (http://www.kem.com/cards/ARROW-CONS-BLK-GLD.html)
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I really like the design, but it would look better with two gorillas (making it a two way back). Also making the diamonds a little smaller would be a good idea. I think the price isn't bad for the quality, but it will still keep some people away from backing the project. I think $15 would still draw enough people in. You'll have to figure out what price is best for the project.
Overall it looks very nice. I think if you make some changes and keep listening to the advice of the consumer you will have a great finished product! You already off to a great start here :)
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It's kind of creepy, and also 20$ for 2 decks seems like a lot, especially if domestic shipping isn't included, but it looks like a nice start! Also, I think you should also have a pledge for 1 deck, only very limited, because I think many people will only be willing to buy 1 deck and no more.
That's not that much at all for plastic decks, especially if they're custom. Lance sells his Actuators for $10 a deck, why shouldn't anyone else? :P
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I think we go slightly smaller on the diamonds, and a gorilla in the top right, and bottom left. Two way back, and a nicer design (in my opinion). As for the price are we saying $20 for two decks as retail, or as kickstarter? I would advise $15ish on kickstarter and then $20 as retail. If it costs $5 a deck to make, $15 on kickstarter is still a 150% increase... I know a few people who actually made loses on their kickstarter single decks.
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Definitely smaller diamonds and 2 monkeys to make it a 2 way back.
$20 for 2 decks is a lot and would make me stay away from the deck.
I like the design a lot so far... what software are you using on it, it looks 3d
We use photoshop and blender.
I think we go slightly smaller on the diamonds, and a gorilla in the top right, and bottom left. Two way back, and a nicer design (in my opinion). As for the price are we saying $20 for two decks as retail, or as kickstarter? I would advise $15ish on kickstarter and then $20 as retail. If it costs $5 a deck to make, $15 on kickstarter is still a 150% increase... I know a few people who actually made loses on their kickstarter single decks.
Ok so its 20$ on kickstarter for TWO decks, thats 10$ a deck. Also it includes domestic shipping, thats pretty cheap.
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Ok so its 20$ on kickstarter for TWO decks, thats 10$ a deck. Also it includes domestic shipping, thats pretty cheap.
Do you hear the sound of objection from international buyers ??? ???
Or you need only US buyers to back your project? :P
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Ok so its 20$ on kickstarter for TWO decks, thats 10$ a deck. Also it includes domestic shipping, thats pretty cheap.
Do you hear the sound of objection from international buyers ??? ???
Or you need only US buyers to back your project? :P
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International buyers can still get a deck, however they need to add 5$.
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But then 15$ for a deck including shipping is a lot!
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I'm so sorry, no offense meant but I'm not very fond of the design :( Just my preference. I got a little scared of the Kingkong there with a tobacco. ^_^
Best of luck with this project of yours Reagan! Again i didn't mean any offense. I'm just saying how I feel about the cards to my preference ^_^
but yeah make it a onewayBack and it will be better ^^,
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I'm so sorry, no offense meant but I'm not very fond of the design :( Just my preference. I got a little scared of the Kingkong there with a tobacco. ^_^
Best of luck with this project of yours Reagan! Again i didn't mean any offense. I'm just saying how I feel about the cards to my preference ^_^
but yeah make it a onewayBack and it will be better ^^,
I'll have to agree with krystle on this one, I like the back design but the gorilla isn't in favor with me.. but it looks really casino themed, perhaps add one of those hats and coats people wear in the past, might add a more casino 'feel'. Like those used in D&D's fulton's clip joint video
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Unfortunately this deck is shaping to be another fail. As mentioned before 1 ways are overall cheap and novelty looking...and the fact that it is an ape with a cigar just adds to that image. Don't get me wrong, I love apes and cigars. My fascination with cards was born from my love of poker, then went into magic and collecting. In my own opinion, I would not even pull these out at a poker game. If I did pull them it would be to get a laugh before I pulled out the actual deck we would use for poker. I know this may all seem harsh but that is not my intent. I only write to warn and hopefully inspire a design change before you waste time and effort you could be applying to a deck that would be successful on Kickstarter. Take your sues from the successes and failures before you (to include your own)...novelty decks typically don't fly and marketing is king.
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Unfortunately this deck is shaping to be another fail. As mentioned before 1 ways are overall cheap and novelty looking...and the fact that it is an ape with a cigar just adds to that image. Don't get me wrong, I love apes and cigars. My fascination with cards was born from my love of poker, then went into magic and collecting. In my own opinion, I would not even pull these out at a poker game. If I did pull them it would be to get a laugh before I pulled out the actual deck we would use for poker. I know this may all seem harsh but that is not my intent. I only write to warn and hopefully inspire a design change before you waste time and effort you could be applying to a deck that would be successful on Kickstarter. Take your sues from the successes and failures before you (to include your own)...novelty decks typically don't fly and marketing is king.
Another fail? Anyways, the whole point of this thread was to edit a deck oriented towards poker players so itd be ready to launch, not to make a novelty deck. We are changing the design, but Id need a little more help then "this is a novelty deck and needs a major design change".
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I don't mind the ape and cigar design, though most serious poker players would really scoff at it.
Try for a classier design, either mirrored top and bottom or a design that mirrors itself placed in the center. Need not be overly fancy - simple is actually good. In no way should the deck have any marks or one-way indicators.
Have you considered a design for the faces? Texas Hold 'Em poker is the most popular variant; it gets the most TV coverage, for certain. It has two contrasting requirements: small indices to keep your "peek" from getting seen by the rest of the table and jumbo indices for the community cards to be easily visible. But you can't go too crazy with face innovations, because if they aren't improvements (or in some cases, if they're just plain different), players will reject them, as what happened at the 2007 WSOP when "PokerPeek" faces were introduced.
I actually have an idea along those lines. In the top left & bottom right corners, standard indices. In the top right and bottom left pips, mini indices on a 45-degree diagonal for peeks. In the center, to the left, a jumbo index with pip, and to the right, a reduced-size image (much like you'd see on a jumbo deck) of the standard pip layouts and court faces. It's a good compromise and has familiar elements to it.
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Ok so here is the double sided monkey.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/styeampunkgoldmonkey1.png)
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Ok so its 20$ on kickstarter for TWO decks, thats 10$ a deck. Also it includes domestic shipping, thats pretty cheap.
Do you hear the sound of objection from international buyers ??? ???
Or you need only US buyers to back your project? :P
International buyers can still get a deck, however they need to add 5$.
$5 is fair enough for international buyers, but I don't like the back design either.
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I have too say the back design kinda repulses me from this deck. No offense.
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haha I acctually like this I would pledge for a set of 2 :)
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can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?
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can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?
Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape. We came up with him when we made our first thing, which was a comic book. If we ever made a company for ourselves ( and we will soon once we have done all the paperwork for the steampunk cards ) wed use him as our mascot.
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For the court cards you should give them the ape head.
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can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?
Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape.
Mascot for who? what? Sometimes if I know the story behind the design I tend to look at it a bit differently. ^_^ I just want to know why it inspired you to use such a design/focalpoint inthe design
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Yes, I also think the court cards should have ape heads, but be a little funner, less "scary" than the back design. So it evens it out and contrasts them at the same time.
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can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?
Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape.
Mascot for who? what? Sometimes if I know the story behind the design I tend to look at it a bit differently. ^_^ I just want to know why it inspired you to use such a design/focalpoint inthe design
Ah, well when we made our first comic book, we decided once we made a company for ourselves wed call ourselves ultra ape, and chose him to be our mascot. He resembles um... apeyness.. and... classyness?
oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?
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can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?
Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape.
Mascot for who? what? Sometimes if I know the story behind the design I tend to look at it a bit differently. ^_^ I just want to know why it inspired you to use such a design/focalpoint inthe design
Ah, well when we made our first comic book, we decided once we made a company for ourselves wed call ourselves ultra ape, and chose him to be our mascot. He resembles um... apeness.. and... classyness?
oh okay I see.
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I don't mind the ape and cigar design, though most serious poker players would really scoff at it.
Try for a classier design, either mirrored top and bottom or a design that mirrors itself placed in the center. Need not be overly fancy - simple is actually good. In no way should the deck have any marks or one-way indicators.
Have you considered a design for the faces? Texas Hold 'Em poker is the most popular variant; it gets the most TV coverage, for certain. It has two contrasting requirements: small indices to keep your "peek" from getting seen by the rest of the table and jumbo indices for the community cards to be easily visible. But you can't go too crazy with face innovations, because if they aren't improvements (or in some cases, if they're just plain different), players will reject them, as what happened at the 2007 WSOP when "PokerPeek" faces were introduced.
I actually have an idea along those lines. In the top left & bottom right corners, standard indices. In the top right and bottom left pips, mini indices on a 45-degree diagonal for peeks. In the center, to the left, a jumbo index with pip, and to the right, a reduced-size image (much like you'd see on a jumbo deck) of the standard pip layouts and court faces. It's a good compromise and has familiar elements to it.
Hmm this is a good Idea I might steal this from you. If thats ok.
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He resembles um... apeyness.. and... classyness?
Isn't that a contradiction?
oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?
To be honest, the colors are unattractive, the ape looks out of place and the shading method is inappropriate, and the whole thing doesn't seem to come together very well. There is a huge lack of consistency.
And I'm not sure what "classy" means to you, but to me it certainly doesn't have much to do with an angry gorilla smoking a cigar.
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Are you planning on having custom court cards? Because if you are, I really recommend you use apes or court cards that relate with the back design. Simple but elegant and, especially, clean.
@Moon - You really are harsh! It is classy because he is smoking a cigar, is mad but isn't running all around etc.
@Reagan - I think you should add a 007-type hat, with a Sherlock Hormes-type jacket. That'll make him more classy.
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Are you planning on having custom court cards? Because if you are, I really recommend you use apes or court cards that relate with the back design. Simple but elegant and, especially, clean.
@Moon - You really are harsh! It is classy because he is smoking a cigar, is mad but isn't running all around etc.
@Reagan - I think you should add a 007-type hat, with a Sherlock Hormes-type jacket. That'll make him more classy.
lol here is the first sketch of the ultra ape maybe youll like him more? And were toying with the idea of custom court cards.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/Ape001.jpg)
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oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?
There is another thread on this forum: "Favorite Deck?"
Have you tried to understand those decks?
Now we know the meaning of Ultra Ape for you, but it doesn't mean it is also meaningful for others. Frankly speaking, I am afraid kids and gals will be scared by the fierce-looking apes if I use this deck. No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?
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oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?
There is another thread on this forum: "Favorite Deck?"
Have you tried to understand those decks?
Now we know the meaning of Ultra Ape for you, but it doesn't mean it is also meaningful for others. Frankly speaking, I am afraid kids and gals will be scared by the fierce-looking apes if I use this deck. No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?
Offense taken. Who would be scared of a picture of an ape? And no I cant just whip up a design that everyone would like its not exactly that simple. Thats why I made this topic so we can actually work on the design and improve it, to a respectable degree. I will have a look at that thread though.
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@Reagan - I think you should add a 007-type hat, with a Sherlock Hormes-type jacket. That'll make him more classy.
[size=78%]you stole my idea! haha just kidding, ideas are for sharing but i suggested that first [/size] :P
http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1751.20 (http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1751.20)
Are you planning on having custom court cards? Because if you are, I really recommend you use apes or court cards that relate with the back design. Simple but elegant and, especially, clean.
@Moon - You really are harsh! It is classy because he is smoking a cigar, is mad but isn't running all around etc.
@Reagan - I think you should add a 007-type hat, with a Sherlock Hormes-type jacket. That'll make him more classy.
lol here is the first sketch of the ultra ape maybe youll like him more? And were toying with the idea of custom court cards.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/Ape001.jpg)
thats a nice improvement for the deck but then again how are you gonna fit it in?
oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?
There is another thread on this forum: "Favorite Deck?"
Have you tried to understand those decks?
Now we know the meaning of Ultra Ape for you, but it doesn't mean it is also meaningful for others. Frankly speaking, I am afraid kids and gals will be scared by the fierce-looking apes if I use this deck. No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?
Offense taken. Who would be scared of a picture of an ape? And no I cant just whip up a design that everyone would like its not exactly that simple. Thats why I made this topic so we can actually work on the design and improve it, to a respectable degree. I will have a look at that thread though.
i think regan is aiming for his deck for poker players rather than magicians/cardist/kids hence the ape
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No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?
Hold on. No. I don't think he should be at all. Magicians, cardists, and card players all have very different uses for a deck. While creating a deck that is good for all is entirely possible and has been done a variety of times in the past, I do not believe it is a requirement. People have said before that marketing is key. People have also said that designing a deck shouldn't be about churning out something to make a profit, but about bringing a piece of artwork into existence. If this art means classy poker playing with a film noir feel to him, then why should he try to cater to the magicians and cardists of the world? I think that would be bad advice. Cater to your target audience, after all they are the ones you want to buy your product.
As an added piece of advice: I've done some work with digital art in the past, I know how long it must have taken to do his teeth, but consider a closed mouth, and maybe a lit cigar with a little smoke.
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Some of you are being a tad harsh don't you think? As for calling the ape scary? WHAT?! It's an ape - scowling. He isn't wielding an axe or a sword... Also the deck is aimed at gamblers, so are most likely 18+ I doubt they will be scared by an ape.
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@AceGambit: Thats a good idea, Ill draw it up. The main thing im worried about is the background and how the ape fits into it. Do you guys think the background is busy enough?
@K: I might not be able to, however he would probably fit perfectly well for the box art. And yes, I am aiming for the poker crowd, it seems like a bit of an untapped market.
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@AceGambit: Thats a good idea, Ill draw it up. The main thing im worried about is the background and how the ape fits into it. Do you guys think the background is busy enough?
@K: I might not be able to, however he would probably fit perfectly well for the box art. And yes, I am aiming for the poker crowd, it seems like a bit of an untapped market.
Yes, I bet it'll look nice with the box but the problem is how it is going to fit with the back of the cards.. Hopefully it wont be 'like' looney tunes with a standard background a 'star' and the gorilla in the middle 'popping out'. I'll let you know if I can think of any suggestions for the back, in the mean time you're doing great! keep it up, take constructive feedback to pull yourself up :)
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@AceGambit: Thats a good idea, Ill draw it up. The main thing im worried about is the background and how the ape fits into it. Do you guys think the background is busy enough?
@K: I might not be able to, however he would probably fit perfectly well for the box art. And yes, I am aiming for the poker crowd, it seems like a bit of an untapped market.
Yes, I bet it'll look nice with the box but the problem is how it is going to fit with the back of the cards.. Hopefully it wont be 'like' looney tunes with a standard background a 'star' and the gorilla in the middle 'popping out'. I'll let you know if I can think of any suggestions for the back, in the mean time you're doing great! keep it up, take constructive feedback to pull yourself up :)
For the very first draw up we used the hat and a diamond hole, and unfortunantly thats exactly what it looked like, I could try again. Anyways thanks for the advice though, I know sometimes I get a wee bit defensinve.
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I also at first thought it was a bit scary and dark but, anyways, its' main purpose is for gambling, so I guess it would be ok. And for collecting it would be cool as well!
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can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?
Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape. We came up with him when we made our first thing, which was a comic book. If we ever made a company for ourselves ( and we will soon once we have done all the paperwork for the steampunk cards ) wed use him as our mascot.
Consider using the company mascot on a very distinctive joker design, and/or the ad cards. It would look better than on the back, especially if you're aiming for serious card players. He's great for a comic book, but not for a poker deck back. Jokers you can get whacky with, no problem.
I don't mind the ape and cigar design, though most serious poker players would really scoff at it.
Try for a classier design, either mirrored top and bottom or a design that mirrors itself placed in the center. Need not be overly fancy - simple is actually good. In no way should the deck have any marks or one-way indicators.
Have you considered a design for the faces? Texas Hold 'Em poker is the most popular variant; it gets the most TV coverage, for certain. It has two contrasting requirements: small indices to keep your "peek" from getting seen by the rest of the table and jumbo indices for the community cards to be easily visible. But you can't go too crazy with face innovations, because if they aren't improvements (or in some cases, if they're just plain different), players will reject them, as what happened at the 2007 WSOP when "PokerPeek" faces were introduced.
I actually have an idea along those lines. In the top left & bottom right corners, standard indices. In the top right and bottom left pips, mini indices on a 45-degree diagonal for peeks. In the center, to the left, a jumbo index with pip, and to the right, a reduced-size image (much like you'd see on a jumbo deck) of the standard pip layouts and court faces. It's a good compromise and has familiar elements to it.
Hmm this is a good Idea I might steal this from you. If thats ok.
For the faces, sure. I'd love to see it made. (Give me a design credit, though, and a pair of decks!)
If you adopt this face style, you won't need custom courts, so no ape faces on the courts. Best to keep that part simple. Poker players aren't really fond of wild design variations that don't improve game play. Also, maybe for the court cards, instead of the entire two-headed court, since you have a one-way face just use one traditional court head done large. Makes for easier identification, I think.
Another tip - make the border white. I've never seen a single pro poker deck without a white border except for Bee Diamond Backs, but even those aren't used by casinos these days as much as the Stinger Backs with the fade-to-white border. Patterned edges allow for easier execution of certain card-cheating moves. I don't think a colored edge would have that problem, but it's the whole "traditional look" thing. If you're adopting a really unique face like the one I described, keep a really simple and classic back design.
No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?
Hold on. No. I don't think he should be at all. Magicians, cardists, and card players all have very different uses for a deck. While creating a deck that is good for all is entirely possible and has been done a variety of times in the past, I do not believe it is a requirement. People have said before that marketing is key. People have also said that designing a deck shouldn't be about churning out something to make a profit, but about bringing a piece of artwork into existence. If this art means classy poker playing with a film noir feel to him, then why should he try to cater to the magicians and cardists of the world? I think that would be bad advice. Cater to your target audience, after all they are the ones you want to buy your product.
As an added piece of advice: I've done some work with digital art in the past, I know how long it must have taken to do his teeth, but consider a closed mouth, and maybe a lit cigar with a little smoke.
The definite target audience here is POKER PLAYERS, period. Serious poker players don't go for gimmicks that don't improve gameplay or are too much of a distraction.
@AceGambit: Thats a good idea, Ill draw it up. The main thing im worried about is the background and how the ape fits into it. Do you guys think the background is busy enough?
@K: I might not be able to, however he would probably fit perfectly well for the box art. And yes, I am aiming for the poker crowd, it seems like a bit of an untapped market.
A busy background makes for a suspicious background. Simple means it's tougher to hide card markings.
Poker players are NOT an untapped market. Kem, Piatnik, Copag, Modiano, Fournier... They all do thriving business in the poker-players' market. They keep the designs simple, they add "poker peek" corners, they don't customize the court cards.
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Its an odd design and theme but I actually like it a lot! Its not something I'd use for magic obviously but for my collection, and to play around with, it would be great.
Will this be a fully custom deck?
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@Don Boyer: great advice, the printers for copag also suggested I use a white border. I might switch to them because their price is half of KEM. Im not sure Im ready to remove the monkey from the back, I could just make him less noticable.
@ MagicAddictz: Im not sure how much of the deck will be custom right now, probably everything but the pips and number cards.
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@Don Boyer: great advice, the printers for copag also suggested I use a white border. I might switch to them because their price is half of KEM. Im not sure Im ready to remove the monkey from the back, I could just make him less noticable.
@ MagicAddictz: Im not sure how much of the deck will be custom right now, probably everything but the pips and number cards.
I wish everything will be custom, but maybe, if even the number cards are custom, poker players will think that the deck can be used for cheating.
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@Don Boyer: great advice, the printers for copag also suggested I use a white border. I might switch to them because their price is half of KEM. Im not sure Im ready to remove the monkey from the back, I could just make him less noticable.
@ MagicAddictz: Im not sure how much of the deck will be custom right now, probably everything but the pips and number cards.
I'm fine with standard numbers and pips :)
Cant wait to see the court cards!
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I'll have to agree with don on keeping the monkeys on the jokers and not on the back. But I know how it is with the whole sentimental value of the team mascot. And to be honest I don't know how an ape can signify classiness. But anyway, the design behind the monkey is pretty nice. White borders will save you a lot of money.
That sketch of your ape was pretty wicked and will make a pretty good joker.
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Im going to try a few more backs using the monkey and can see if I can make it work, a lot of people here seem to like the monkey. I will definantly use that sketch for the joker tho. For my next back Im going to try and add a bit of a "film noir" to it. Not over the top though I want to make a subtle back like Don Boyer suggested.
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Wasn't the Fulton's Clip Joint deck a noir theme?
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Maybe, but Im just going for a hint of film noir its not going to be the theme.
But for now here is what I have does the ape fit in better? Also I have no Idea how id fit in a white border unto the card without it looking... lame.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/galdape.png)
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Maybe, but Im just going for a hint of film noir its not going to be the theme.
But for now here is what I have does the ape fit in better? Also I have no Idea how id fit in a white border unto the card without it looking... lame.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/galdape.png)
I think you should change the border color and the color making the diamonds white and make the apes big. If they are going to be they they might as well be noticable. I would pick up a few of these just as a cool deck. I think you should just go with the ape desgin and not listen to people telling you that it is scary and the theme sucks. Anyway sweet design.
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Wasn't the Fulton's Clip Joint deck a noir theme?
Yes it was but that doesn't mean that Reagan can't go with a similar style. I think it's a good idea if he is going after poker players especially.
@Reagan, I like the first design better. Keep up the hard work and keep listening to everybody's feedback and you'll have a great deck in no time!
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Hmmm... well I got the qoute from copag and they are 1/3 the price of KEMs and the same quality, it seems a no brainer thatd I would switch, also the other "KEMs" the other manufacturer was trying to sell me wernt KEMs at all, the real ones cost 29$ per set of 2. Copags are less than 14$. Anyways the copag manufacturer suggested I somehow make the borders white because plastic cards tend to have some inconsistancy in the ink near the edges. I was thinking of changing the whole color scheme to black/grey/silver, and fade towards the edges. Or do you think I can just fade the edges of this deck and have it look decent?
@brown_bags: did you mean the very first ape deck or just the first ape with his mouth open?
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Hmmm... well I got the qoute from copag and they are 1/3 the price of KEMs and the same quality, it seems a no brainer thatd I would switch, also the other "KEMs" the other manufacturer was trying to sell me wernt KEMs at all, the real ones cost 29$ per set of 2. Copags are less than 14$. Anyways the copag manufacturer suggested I somehow make the borders white because plastic cards tend to have some inconsistancy in the ink near the edges. I was thinking of changing the whole color scheme to black/grey/silver, and fade towards the edges. Or do you think I can just fade the edges of this deck and have it look decent?
@brown_bags: did you mean the very first ape deck or just the first ape with his mouth open?
The one with the mouth open. Although I think having the ape on the jokers as others have mentioned would look the best. A black/grey/silver color scheme would be very nice!! I don't need something to flashy when I play poker so that would work really well!! I think head that route and see what happens
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Ok so for my next deck of cards I want to take most of my advice from you guys, with my last deck of cards I didnt really listen to peoples needs before I made the project on kickstarter (10 days left, in my sig) . The type of deck Im going for is mainly for poker players, with classy art and card stock that can withstand a thousand uses and great handeling. Here is what I came up with so far, keep in mind this is a VERY early rendition of the art, and everything is up for change.
Cardstock: COPAG quality plastic ( just got the KEM quote.. yikes! copag is 1/3 the price and just as good if not better.)
Ink: The gold border and monkey rings will use metallic ink.
The art:
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/galdape.png)
One will come in brown and one in black, it will cost 20$ for 2 decks.
Copag is definitely not better. Kem is the best handling deck in the world for poker. Copag is still very good. Good luck with your deck, I hope you get funding.
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Ok so the funding for our steampunk deck is pretty much over, and we made our website, we made a discussion over in our forums for this at Ultraape.com but as you can see we have no members currently lol.
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Congrats on the funding!
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Thanks! Im really excited about this.
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Thanks! Im really excited about this.
I'm in LOVE with the backs! Count me in for at least a set!
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I'm not a huge fan of the back design but I like your website and your ideas and will definitely be getting some of your new stuff in the future.
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Ok so here is a photo from the printer that shows what would happen if I made the borders a solid color on a plastic deck, It makes the ink inconsistant, apparently but I barely see a problem what do you guys think? Im still working on a classy look with a whilte border but its proving difficult, should have something soon tho.I also think itd be a lot less noticable with the gold border.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/photo.jpg)
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I don't understand what that last post meant, but I think you should have white borders. Just my opinion.
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Ok so here is a photo from the printer that shows what would happen if I made the borders a solid color on a plastic deck, It makes the ink inconsistant, apparently but I barely see a problem what do you guys think? Im still working on a classy look with a whilte border but its proving difficult, should have something soon tho.I also think itd be a lot less noticable with the gold border.
It really looks like these guys are having quality control issues if they can't get a consistent solid color on all the cards. You should consider using Archduke Cards. Rajas Paranjpe is the owner and started posting here recently. He's offering 5000 decks for $4600 in paper and can do plastic printing as well. Look for the topic he started which lists the offer.
http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1821.0;all
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Ok so here is a photo from the printer that shows what would happen if I made the borders a solid color on a plastic deck, It makes the ink inconsistant, apparently but I barely see a problem what do you guys think? Im still working on a classy look with a whilte border but its proving difficult, should have something soon tho.I also think itd be a lot less noticable with the gold border.
It really looks like these guys are having quality control issues if they can't get a consistent solid color on all the cards. You should consider using Archduke Cards. Rajas Paranjpe is the owner and started posting here recently. He's offering 5000 decks for $4600 in paper and can do plastic printing as well. Look for the topic he started which lists the offer.
http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1821.0;all
Well the thing is these guys are COPAG USA, meaning they are second in line to only KEM. I think its a universal problem that happens to be a part of the printing process for plastic cards. Now that I think about it though, even though the plastic "KEM" cards that the ohther manufacturer sent me had white specs all over it none of the cards had any inconsistancy in color. I will talk to Rajas and see if he thinks he can print these cards with consistant inks.
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Ok I am probably going to print with rajas, his prices are great and not to mention the quality.That being said here are the silver versions, I cannot decide which ape I like better...
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/styeampunkgoldmonkey1-1.png)(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/galdape-3.png)
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The first picture is very dark and I can hardly see the white lines on the playing card. Where as the 2nd picture I can clearly see the lines. Is this what you were intending?
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yes actually I like the darker lines better, in the first pick the were supposed to be greyish instead of silver, Also I can see them clearly.
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Ok, gotcha. Umm, for me I like the 2nd ape better. The one with his mouth closed on the cigar. If you decided on going with the 2nd ape you could always make a gaff card using the first ape. The first ape with his mouth open could me used as a reveal with a playing card inside his mouth or something like that. Just throwing some ideas around...
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I also like the second ape much better! I like the way this is evolving. Good luck!
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Hmmm... do you think the backs are ready for release? Im not sure what else I could do ot the card back, Of course Im going to get the other cards done first, and make sure everything is right this time, but im curoious as to what you guys think as to the readiness of the backs would you buy them at this stage?
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Hmmm... do you think the backs are ready for release? Im not sure what else I could do ot the card back, Of course Im going to get the other cards done first, and make sure everything is right this time, but im curoious as to what you guys think as to the readiness of the backs would you buy them at this stage?
I personally wouldn't buy one from what I see so far. But if you keep up the progress, I will.
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I like the second ape back better. I think that it still needs some work. I'm not sure what it is though. I'll keep thinking and get back to you with my feedback though! It's looking much better and I'm a huge fan of the silver backs.
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I have to agree. Its not quite ready yet. I'm not sure whats missing either but when I look at it I feel like there should be more going on, on the back of the card. More artwork or something nice on the eyes.
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What would it look like if you add a derby or fedora type hat to the ape?
This might add a little class to the ape. Just a thought. :)
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I, too, like the second one better. But there's something about that background I don't really like. The diamonds are a little overused. Maybe try something new?
I like how the ape is really detailed, but I'm actually not so sure if the printer will be able to handle it and actually get all of these details out... :S
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I, too, like the second one better. But there's something about that background I don't really like. The diamonds are a little overused. Maybe try something new?
I like how the ape is really detailed, but I'm actually not so sure if the printer will be able to handle it and actually get all of these details out... :S
Its no problem for the printer, maybe we could tone down the diamonds a bit? Make them more grey like in the first one?
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Hmmm... do you think the backs are ready for release? Im not sure what else I could do ot the card back, Of course Im going to get the other cards done first, and make sure everything is right this time, but im curoious as to what you guys think as to the readiness of the backs would you buy them at this stage?
The second "silver-backed" ape is the better of the two. But you should look into making TWO COLORS for this deck, distinct and different from each other. It's a rare poker table I've played at where only one deck was used the entire night. Perhaps you can swap out the black diamonds on the back for blood-red ones - different enough without being jarringly different. Or perhaps even a leather-brown; you can make it look like an old-style leather chair or couch with the deep-set studs holding the material in place, and make the diagonal lines into stitches! Just don't go for black and grey - I saw Kem do something like that with a twin-deck of tournament-branded cards and you could barely tell one from the other, leaving them susceptible to getting mixed together by accident and not being noticed.
I think the stitched-leather look would be AWESOME for what you're trying to achieve with this deck, and it would make it distinctive yet familiar.
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Weve actually changed our manufacturer to archduke playing cards, What do you guys think of this change? If we make this change the printing of these decks will be very inexpensive. We could even offer the decks for less than the steampunk decks. ( We are also printing the steampunk decks thru archduke).
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Actually there is one big problem, we have ideas for the king and jack monkey, But what kinda monkey could be queen without looking stupid. The king will be mobster style, whle maybe the jack would be a punky monkey...? I deas?
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Weve actually changed our manufacturer to archduke playing cards, What do you guys think of this change? If we make this change the printing of these decks will be very inexpensive. We could even offer the decks for less than the steampunk decks. ( We are also printing the steampunk decks thru archduke).
I'm a big fan of this! I think it's great for both parties! It gives Archduke some more business and a chance to showcase their printing with your deck and you have a quality deck printed! I would pick one up just to check out the design and the handling. A bonus for both sides!
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Weve actually changed our manufacturer to archduke playing cards, What do you guys think of this change? If we make this change the printing of these decks will be very inexpensive. We could even offer the decks for less than the steampunk decks. ( We are also printing the steampunk decks thru archduke).
A wise choice. Archduke makes quality cards. I've been promoting them here like crazy because I think they're excellent cards for the price he's selling them at.
Actually there is one big problem, we have ideas for the king and jack monkey, But what kinda monkey could be queen without looking stupid. The king will be mobster style, whle maybe the jack would be a punky monkey...? I deas?
Try this article and the links it comes with. It should help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_moll
Make the Kings into gorilla dons with tux, the Queens become chimpanzee gun molls in evening gowns, flapper dresses and fancy hats, the Jacks become "the muscle" in orangutan form, the guys who do the don's bidding, wearing pinstripes, black shirts and white ties. Replace swords with pistols, scepters with Tommy guns, flowers with martinis and champagne glasses (use the old wide and flat models, not the more modern flute-style glasses.
Consider a joker design with a policeman ape of some kind, for at least one of the cards. You can always put your Ultra Ape logo on an ad card.
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Weve actually changed our manufacturer to archduke playing cards, What do you guys think of this change? If we make this change the printing of these decks will be very inexpensive. We could even offer the decks for less than the steampunk decks. ( We are also printing the steampunk decks thru archduke).
A wise choice. Archduke makes quality cards. I've been promoting them here like crazy because I think they're excellent cards for the price he's selling them at.
Actually there is one big problem, we have ideas for the king and jack monkey, But what kinda monkey could be queen without looking stupid. The king will be mobster style, whle maybe the jack would be a punky monkey...? I deas?
Try this article and the links it comes with. It should help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_moll
Make the Kings into gorilla dons with tux, the Queens become chimpanzee gun molls in evening gowns, flapper dresses and fancy hats, the Jacks become "the muscle" in orangutan form, the guys who do the don's bidding, wearing pinstripes, black shirts and white ties. Replace swords with pistols, scepters with Tommy guns, flowers with martinis and champagne glasses (use the old wide and flat models, not the more modern flute-style glasses.
Consider a joker design with a policeman ape of some kind, for at least one of the cards. You can always put your Ultra Ape logo on an ad card.
Those are some good ideas, I will try and get something drawn up soon. The only probllem is its near impossible to make female monkeys look serious enough, Without looking silly.
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Weve actually changed our manufacturer to archduke playing cards, What do you guys think of this change? If we make this change the printing of these decks will be very inexpensive. We could even offer the decks for less than the steampunk decks. ( We are also printing the steampunk decks thru archduke).
That is awesome news! I haven't handled any decks from there but I've only heard good things about them. Good luck!
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that is awesome !! but i thought the project is already funded ??
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that is awesome !! but i thought the project is already funded ??
Yup, but right before I sent payment to the chinese guys, brown_sac suggested I talk to archduke
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Here is a quick sketch of the don monkey. Ill work on putting him into a card soon!
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/thedon001.jpg)
Also did the jack but its... meh so far.
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Hmmm... do you think the backs are ready for release? Im not sure what else I could do ot the card back, Of course Im going to get the other cards done first, and make sure everything is right this time, but im curoious as to what you guys think as to the readiness of the backs would you buy them at this stage?
I think it looks good, what are you doing for the faces? the kings should have ape heads.
EDIT:
I was a page back when I posted andi dodn#t notice the other stuff. The face cards you have started look very cool.
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Make the Kings into gorilla dons with tux, the Queens become chimpanzee gun molls in evening gowns, flapper dresses and fancy hats, the Jacks become "the muscle" in orangutan form, the guys who do the don's bidding, wearing pinstripes, black shirts and white ties. Replace swords with pistols, scepters with Tommy guns, flowers with martinis and champagne glasses (use the old wide and flat models, not the more modern flute-style glasses.
Consider a joker design with a policeman ape of some kind, for at least one of the cards. You can always put your Ultra Ape logo on an ad card.
Those are some good ideas, I will try and get something drawn up soon. The only probllem is its near impossible to make female monkeys look serious enough, Without looking silly.
It's why I suggested chimps. They already have a more slender form than the other apes mentioned. You wouldn't need to go crazy giving them huge breasts or anything like that, just dress them up in dresses as described and I think you'll be fine. No makeup, but perhaps earrings and necklaces made of gold and expensive gems - diamonds for the queen of diamonds, naturally!
Here is a quick sketch of the don monkey. Ill work on putting him into a card soon!
Also did the jack but its... meh so far.
The first don monkey is an awesome start - cigars instead of scepters! I love it! Think also expensive watches/pocketwatches, pinky rings with fat gems, etc. And tuxedos! Gotta get them in tuxedos.
For the jacks, just think of the stereotypical '20s mobster, in a fedora and a pinstriped suit. They aren't wealthy, they don't have expensive jewelry and the like - but they do the boss' bidding, carry out his hits, etc. Equip them with Tommy guns (look up "Thomson sub-machine gun" on Wikipedia or Google). Give them black shirts and white neckties, or maybe a white shirt and a red bowtie - they should appear only barely civilized and practically uncomfortable in a suit. And BULGING with muscle - the real-life foot-soldiers of mob bosses were dumb-looking and slow-witted in some cases, but built like tanks. Picture arms so thick, they look like they want to burst out of their suit jacket sleeves!
If orangutans are hard to work out, I guess you could simply go with more gorillas. Perhaps making the dons look a little older with some gray fur would help make them distinctive.
What did you think of the idea of making the diamond pattern on the back appear like stitched leather on old overstuffed couches and chairs?
I keep this up, I'm going to want a designer's credit on your deck! :))
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Well for giggles, here is the jack. Hes not bad just needs more of an attitude I think. Maybe give him sort of a gut and a attitude. I wouldnt mind giving you guys some recognition btw. Uhhh and for the diamond pattern, I might give it a try.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/themuscel001.jpg)
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The jack is looking good, how about adding a poorboy hat ( andy cap type of bunnet ), that hat was commen in that era. Just a thought,keep up the good work these cards will look cool when your done, love the theme.
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Well for giggles, here is the jack. Hes not bad just needs more of an attitude I think. Maybe give him sort of a gut and a attitude. I wouldnt mind giving you guys some recognition btw. Uhhh and for the diamond pattern, I might give it a try.
I suggest you "Arnold" him up a bit - thick, muscular arms. No gut - it was the bosses that had time and money to grow fat, not the foot soldiers running around carrying out his bidding. Change his expression to a scowl or an evil grin, perhaps even baring his teeth - enforcers were scary individuals. A fedora, a bowler or a newsboy cap wouldn't be out of place, but you might want to mix it up a little and have some with no hats at all.
Here's a thought - what if you swapped the gorillas and the orangutans; gorillas as enforcer-Jacks and orangutans as boss-Kings? Your earlier sketch of the king would make a decent enforcer, while your orang might actually be a decent boss. Swap the cigar and the Tommy gun and you've got something that I think works well. Gorillas tend to be scarier, while orangs remind me of Brando in "The Godfather", with the big jowls.
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I know this is a step in a random direction, but here is a random deck design for the back. Should I try an fit the ape head in there somwhere? Get rid of this design entirely, or just keep the design without the ape logo. Remember these will be using shiny metallic inks!
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/silverdeck.png)
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Nother back idea, but its not double sided :(
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/aped.png)
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First, I like the first design better than both of these. Not saying they're bad, but they don't fit with the theme.
The second design with the curlicues looks a bit busy, and with metallic ink, well - I dunno.
The second is a little more angular/industrial - and you could easily make it a two-way back by instead printing "ultra ape" on the upper and lower parts of the center bar facing in opposite directions instead of just once in the center.
Stick with the ape backs on the big diamond pattern. Make the diamond pattern look like leather-padded walls/furniture, complete with stitchwork. If you plan to make the padding three-dimensional in appearance, you'll need to use a "light source" from one position/angle on one half of the back, and from the completely opposite position on the other half - unless you'd rather have a subtle one-way back! Considering you're aiming at a poker market, I would advise against any kind of one-way back.
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i like all of the design but i think the seond design look nicest but like don say it does not fit with the theme
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That first design is awesome! I don't think you should try to put the ape in there.. it looks great as it is! Also, that back design could be used for many things and I love the colors. Awesome work!
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I agree with Don, stick with your original diamond back design just with a few tweeks.
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Sorry to put you guys through this but here are some more concepts, You can see the leather ones on the side, these are not card concepts but they are what will be used in place of the diamonds on the monkey cards.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/cardspread.png)
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I hate to say it but I'm not a fan of any of those...
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If I had to make a choice I'd take the 4th or 3rd one.
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The first and last backs look identical to the ones they are next to. Are they?
You know what I like - the leather diamond pattern, with the ape heads on them. It's reminiscent of Bee Diamond Backs, but also of the kind of leather furniture you might have found in an office or a nightclub in the 1920's and '30s. The ape heads would be the equivalent of your "casino logo".
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1st last or the 4th one
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I like the 4th design best.
BTW, the 3rd, 5th, and 7th are one way back which I don't think many people will like that.
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4th for collectors, 8th (9th?) for cardists. Magicians will blame you for black borders :)
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Honestly not a very big fan of any of those backs, I think you should work on the origional one.
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4th for collectors, 8th (9th?) for cardists. Magicians will blame you for black borders :)
Sorry I'm no magician but what's wrong with black borders? I thought it was borderless decks that's irritating the magicians.
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if the deck is a black deck then having a black border is fine but if it is a white deck .. then the black border will kill it since you cant do reverse card trick .. if you put a card reverse which is required in some card trick if you can easily spot it .. this is the same thing that happen to artifice that why there is a v2
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It's been stated countless times that this deck is aimed at poker players and not magicians. The fact that it's a plastic deck should make that pretty obvious to begin with.
As for reverse card tricks, if you're refering to triumph or something similar, it may be harder, but not entirely impossible if you're actually willing to put the effort into it. I know a lot of people prefered Artifice V1 and hated the whiny magicians that caused it to disappear, me included.
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i know it is for poker .. but it still can also be use for magic cant it ?? and since he ask why magicians will blame black borders so i answer it
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Well my artist wont be back to his place to put up the new artwork, but for you guys who want to know what theyll sorta come out to be like, heres where we are right now. The back of the card will look like the monkey one, except it will have the ultra ape heads and the gold border, and the cards will havve the poker peek halfs! I was bored so I decided to just post this anyways.
pretty much this is me sending him a sketch ( a really bad one ) back to him telling him what to do.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/kingmonkeycopymeh.png)
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It's been stated countless times that this deck is aimed at poker players and not magicians. The fact that it's a plastic deck should make that pretty obvious to begin with.
As for reverse card tricks, if you're refering to triumph or something similar, it may be harder, but not entirely impossible if you're actually willing to put the effort into it. I know a lot of people prefered Artifice V1 and hated the whiny magicians that caused it to disappear, me included.
Actually, in this case, it's not about magicians. Having a contrasting border on the back, be it white, yellow, whatever, is important in a true gambling deck. Magicians love using Bees for gambling demos because of how the Diamond Back pattern allows for easy disguising of many popular gambling sleights. An all-black or all-dark design with a dark border would have the same characteristics. It's the reason why the majority of casinos stopped using Diamond Backs and similar designs at the poker tables and have switched to designs more like the Stinger Back or a bordered design. It matters less for "Tech Art" cards used in blackjack and similar games, since everything gets dealt from a multideck shoe and the game is pretty straightforward.
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Dont mind the non - diagonal pips theyll be on there... eventually. But what do you guys thin of the king? Also, the back really bugs me this time, would it help to make the diamonds smaller? Im thinking im gonna have to change the logo entirely.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/kingmonkeycopy1.png)
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What if I just took all the stuff off of the back?
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/kingmonkeycopy.png)
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I like that last post, without the ape on the back. Maybe you should keep the yellow additional borders, but I definitely like the court cards and back design better!
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The first post, maybe make the diamonds smaller and the ape face's larger or stick with just the diamond design in the second post only smaller diamonds.
Billy.
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Well here is the deck with the poker peek pips. Somehow this back is looking better and better to me. Do you guys like this back? I mean It isnt anything youd buy right?
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/kingmonkeycopy2.png)
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I wouldn't buy that if you were selling it. I don't know what it is about the design that I don't like but I REALLY liked this back design...
(THE FIRST PIC YOU POSTED ON THIS PAGE) http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1751.100
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See the thing is I really liked that design too, but no one else seemed to but you.
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The Poker Peek indices need to be SMALLER. About half the size of a standard index. They usually have the value to the left of the suit pip instead of stacked vertically - the idea is to allow a player to reveal as little of the front of his card as possible while still affording him a view of the card's value/suit.
Make the yellow border more narrow (like the Tendril deck) and make the "mounted gorilla heads" a bit larger. If you prefer them to be smaller, push them into corners rather than present them along the center line. (That would actually make for an interesting fan or spread, particularly with narrow borders!) I'd prefer seeing the border in white, but that's just me - for a poker deck, yellow should be just fine.
Maybe when you make the second back layout (assuming you're creating a real poker set of two decks), you could use a white border and a lighter shade of brown on the "leather". Regardless of the color scheme you do choose for deck #2 in this set (assuming you're making a set), make the border color a sharp contrast to the rest of the card back. There's no shortage of colors that would do the trick.
If you're targeting poker players, you need to do a set of two similar designs with different color schemes. I've never played a game of poker - a real game of poker - where there was only one color of deck in play. There's always two: identical designs with differing color schemes, one for use in the current hand while the other is being shuffled to start the next hand without delay. No second deck drags the game, an completely identical second deck leads to possible deck mixing (having two Aces of Spades played in the same hand can be embarrassing) and a totally different second deck forces players to readjust to a change of design with each hand.
Consider also going with no borders around the center pips or court faces. It looks very classy when done well. And try to find a way to "blend" the top and bottom faces at the center line on the courts, like having the pinstripes of one suit jacket flow right into the pinstripes of the other suit jacket, almost as if they were a single jacket. It's what players are accustomed to seeing in a court design and would look pretty slick with your monkey courts.
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One of the people in the other forums did a quick an a bit crude retouch to the apes back, what do you guys think, I personally think it fixes the whole back.
@ Don boyer, there will be two backs and I will fix the pips soon.
(http://www.benefactum.ca/temp/card_retouch.png)
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One of the people in the other forums did a quick an a bit crude retouch to the apes back, what do you guys think, I personally think it fixes the whole back.
@ Don boyer, there will be two backs and I will fix the pips soon.
I still liked the "leather" look. Perhaps you could fuse the two looks - smaller diamonds with the leather look? Every other poker deck out there that's aimed at poker players has a diamond pattern on the back - the leather look makes yours more distinctive, something you need in order to stand out in this marketplace.
Another thing I noticed: why do you have two borders on the faces: one at the outer edge and one surrounding the center pips/court faces? Whether or not you opt to keep the inner border (I suggested it would look good without it), you really need to ditch the outer border. Anything that keeps the indices further from the edge of the card is a hindrance and reduces functionality to card players. Lose the outer border and push out the indices as close to the edge of the card as you can get away with without having incorrectly-cut cards.
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@ don boyer: I dont understand how the indices being farther in is a hendrance to poker players. I will see what the card with the leather and smaller diamonds will look like.
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In a professional card game the general idea is to only expose as much of the card as you need to in order to determine the suit/value. Often times in games like Texas Hold Em' you will see players not even pick up their cards, but merely bend them a little, give them a small spread, and put them back down, for fear of other players catching a glimpse of the card. The indices (or indexes, I'm pretty sure both are correct) being further from the edge of the card requires players to expose more of the card to determine it's suit/value, which runs a higher risk of flashing your cards to the other players.
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One of the people in the other forums did a quick an a bit crude retouch to the apes back, what do you guys think, I personally think it fixes the whole back.
@ Don boyer, there will be two backs and I will fix the pips soon.
(http://www.benefactum.ca/temp/card_retouch.png)
I like that a lot better than the gold one... but you know which design I really like.
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here it is with small leather diamonds, I mighta went a little crazy with the shadowing.(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/kingmonkeycopy3.png)
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In a professional card game the general idea is to only expose as much of the card as you need to in order to determine the suit/value. Often times in games like Texas Hold Em' you will see players not even pick up their cards, but merely bend them a little, give them a small spread, and put them back down, for fear of other players catching a glimpse of the card. The indices (or indexes, I'm pretty sure both are correct) being further from the edge of the card requires players to expose more of the card to determine it's suit/value, which runs a higher risk of flashing your cards to the other players.
That sums it up nicely, thanks. As far as the plural for index... If you're being traditional, indices is the proper plural, just like matrices is the proper plural for matrix. But in modern usage, many people don't stick to the traditional pluralization because they simply don't know it, and they find that adding -es is easier, since it sounds like it should be correct. Some might even call it an old-fashioned usage to write indices, just as you never hear the word datum very often, but you do hear the plural form, data, often being used as the singular form as well.
Despite mankind's many efforts to pin down, classify and define language, the fact remains that it's a living, breathing, moving target, highly elusive and forever evolving to suit the needs of the current users. If a native English speaker were to read an "Old English" letter written in the time from the Dark Ages up to the Renaissance, you're likely to barely even recognize it as your own language. Most people only barely know Renaissance English usage because of the unflagging support for the works of William Shakespeare.
But I digress...
Reagan - SMALL, angled indices in the right corners, with pip to the right of value, is the standard for a Poker Peek index. All indices need to be pushed out as close to the edge of the cards as is permissible without causing registration/alignment errors when it's time to cut the card sheets. The only time I don't see an index pushed out is when it's so freakin' huge that it dominates the card, like the bridge-sized Hoyle Super Index cards or the poker-sized Bicycle Lo-Vision.
The issue about taking small peeks from a turned-up corner is also the reason why bridge-sized cards have become the norm in professional poker games. Smaller cards are easier to conceal under your cupped hands when peeking. Plastic decks are more popular than paper not only because they last longer, but also because they're more difficult to mark and crimp. Simple back designs are more popular than complex ones because there are fewer places to hide a marking system.
Now I'm really thinking you should be paying me to be your consultant! :))
I just caught that last post - the shadow around the heads is a bit large, but otherwise I really like this design. Make the shadow circle small enough that just a few of the longer details (furthest from the center of the circle) are actually sticking out of the shadow. My tuppence.
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Ok I think the cards might be ready for the "second stage" pretty much hammering out the prices and rewards ( after the small edits of course ), but idk Im kinda worried about the lack of posts lol. I know this has been stated before but there will be two decks silver and gold.
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Always try to have solid color on the borders. using vignette, shading can cause lot of inconsistencies when the punching takes place.
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Ok I think the cards are starting to look well now.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/kingmonkeycopy4.png)
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Those look good, But I don`t like the 4-corner pips and the apes on the back should be bigger with a thinner gold border.
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I don't mind the 4 pips at the corner, but I'm not appreciative to how two are straight, while the other two slanted. I agree with Aaron that the border should be thinner.
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Always try to have solid color on the borders. using vignette, shading can cause lot of inconsistencies when the punching takes place.
there is a solid black border around the gold one.
@others ill give the thin border style a try
I was also thinking maybe as rewards I could print the logo on cigar bands, however I dont know what sort of copyright issues Id have putting my cigar bands on other peoples cigars, I was also thinking about humidifiers or custom cigar cutters, although the humidifiers would be around 50 - 200$ each. Just a thought...
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Ok I think the cards are starting to look well now.
You opted for a SOLID back? Good for poker, but not as aesthetically pleasing.
Those look good, But I don`t like the 4-corner pips and the apes on the back should be bigger with a thinner gold border.
I don't mind the 4 pips at the corner, but I'm not appreciative to how two are straight, while the other two slanted. I agree with Aaron that the border should be thinner.
The right-corner indices are meant to be Poker Peek pips. This is the Bicycle Pro PokerPeek deck:
http://bicyclepokerdecks.blogspot.com/2010/04/bicycle-pro-poker-peek.html
The smaller indices are best for use in Texas HoldEm. Read above, it was already explained.
I do think that the Peek indices need to be smaller and further in the corner. And that the King displayed has the pip and value reverse in the peek index.
Always try to have solid color on the borders. using vignette, shading can cause lot of inconsistencies when the punching takes place.
there is a solid black border around the gold one.
@others ill give the thin border style a try
I was also thinking maybe as rewards I could print the logo on cigar bands, however I dont know what sort of copyright issues Id have putting my cigar bands on other peoples cigars, I was also thinking about humidifiers or custom cigar cutters, although the humidifiers would be around 50 - 200$ each. Just a thought...
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid!
Humidifiers, cutters, etc. all cost money. Cheap ones aren't worth owning, and expensive ones are too costly for swag.
As cool as the idea of having the UltraApe logo on a cigar may be, federal law prohibits using illustrated characters such as yours for the advertisement of any tobacco products, not to mention that you'd have to age-verify your potential buyers.
Best you could do would be to simply sell the labels as "ring stickers" or something, but even there, some politically-correct mom who catches her kid playing with paper rings having an image of a cigar-smoking cartoon ape on them might take umbrage - and the last thing you want to end up doing is getting embroiled in a legal conflict that will destroy you financially. You could do it with reasonably legal safety IF and ONLY IF you remove the cigar from the ape's mouth for the rings, and don't promote them as being cigar labels, just as "paper rings" or something to that effect.
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I know what the pips are for and I've seen them around. I just don't like how they're not uniformly oriented.
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Aesthetically, I do not care for the look of the angled indices sharing the card with the standard ones, but functionally I get it. I see you have the angled ones closer to the edge, I think it's this functional change that sets off the aesthetics for me. Because the angled indices are the same size as the standard ones, yet not lined up horizontally or vertically with the standard ones, it looks off. Maybe if the angled ones were at like a 75% scale to the standard ones, I think I might like them better.
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Aesthetically, I do not care for the look of the angled indices sharing the card with the standard ones, but functionally I get it. I see you have the angled ones closer to the edge, I think it's this functional change that sets off the aesthetics for me. Because the angled indices are the same size as the standard ones, yet not lined up horizontally or vertically with the standard ones, it looks off. Maybe if the angled ones were at like a 75% scale to the standard ones, I think I might like them better.
Peek indices are meant to be smaller than standard ones. Just large enough to read when you peel up that corner of the card, and that's it.
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here what do you guy think about this?
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/zabolord/kingmonkeycopy5.png)
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Personally, this is my favorite so far. Maybe you could make the shadow around the monkeys on the back a bit less "dense" or "thick", if you know what I mean.
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Much better! I like this more than the previous one. It looks more balanced to me.
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Personally, this is my favorite so far. Maybe you could make the shadow around the monkeys on the back a bit less "dense" or "thick", if you know what I mean.
Maybe, well see what everyone else thinks, I personally think its perfect so far
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Personally, this is my favorite so far. Maybe you could make the shadow around the monkeys on the back a bit less "dense" or "thick", if you know what I mean.
Maybe, well see what everyone else thinks, I personally think its perfect so far
No offense, but perfection is impossible.
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Personally, this is my favorite so far. Maybe you could make the shadow around the monkeys on the back a bit less "dense" or "thick", if you know what I mean.
Maybe, well see what everyone else thinks, I personally think its perfect so far
No offense, but perfection is impossible.
well not perfect to everybody, but the world is how you perceive it. Anywho I was thinking of launching this project in a week, any objections? Even when it lauinches I can make small edits, you guys think its at least ready for launch?
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So no poker peek indices then? if not then I would go with only two corner indices not four, the back looks good, but is a little dark.
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So no poker peek indices then? if not then I would go with only two corner indices not four, the back looks good, but is a little dark.
See I just dont know yet, I might put it up to a vote, the thing is there is no real way to make it look good without makeing all 4 of them poker peek indices, and if I did that, well we know the reception that the actuall poker peek cards got.
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So no poker peek indices then? if not then I would go with only two corner indices not four, the back looks good, but is a little dark.
See I just dont know yet, I might put it up to a vote, the thing is there is no real way to make it look good without makeing all 4 of them poker peek indices, and if I did that, well we know the reception that the actuall poker peek cards got.
The poker peek cards were four corners of peek indices when they were released for the 2007 WSOP. Many players complained they were too small to see easily.
In the present form, it's just a European-style card suited for lefties and righties, but the indices are actually too small. If you want poker peek indices, you put them in the normally-empty corners of a standard US playing card, properly sized and angled, while leaving the two "primary" indices alone and of the correct size. Otherwise, just drop the peek indices and go for a traditional US card layout.