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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: moonexe on January 13, 2012, 09:06:29 PM
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I just found this article on 52cartes:
http://52cartes.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/bicycle-steampunk-deck-infos-supplementaires/ (http://52cartes.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/bicycle-steampunk-deck-infos-supplementaires/)
The "generic" version they refer to seems to be a standard USPCC deck with steampunk backs. The faces have standard colors, the jokers have the USPC logo instead of the word "Joker" and thebox is a standard cardboard box without embossing.
The article says the "generic" version come swith a blank face card instead of the double backer, and the box has a seal on it.
It seems Pokestud52 is currently selling them.
Fake or just really stupid?
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im pretty sure it's real cuz i saw pics of the uspc deck back in november. uspc seems to produce some of the custom card orders they get. like guardians and propogandas...there's a t11 version and a uspc version. the uspc version usually has crappier tuck boxes. design is the same but the colours always look faded.
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Yeah I also read about this. It confused me a little.
I checked out Pokerstud's ebay store and it looks real. He has them there and for a good deal too!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/pokerstud52/m.html (http://www.ebay.com/sch/pokerstud52/m.html)
There's the link to his store.
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Heres what poker stud52 says:
"These decks are slightly different from the version sold by Theory11. The tuck case on this version is not embossed, and the red ink and court cards are brighter. There are other minor differences, but the cards themselves otherwise appear to be identical in color, thickness and handling."
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I think it is kind of stupid that these were made. Why not just have the T11 ones, these are just a more crappy version of T11s Steampunks.
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im pretty sure it's real cuz i saw pics of the uspc deck back in november. uspc seems to produce some of the custom card orders they get. like guardians and propogandas...there's a t11 version and a uspc version. the uspc version usually has crappier tuck boxes. design is the same but the colours always look faded.
When did USPC release their own version of Propagandas? Guardians I've seen; I have all three versions - two from T11, one from USPC. I also noticed that BMPokerWorld recently got Propaganda back in stock at a mere $9.95 a deck. T11 did say there was a Propaganda V2 coming out, but I haven't heard anything about it actually releasing yet, unless those BMPW decks are the new release...
I think it is kind of stupid that these were made. Why not just have the T11 ones, these are just a more crappy version of T11s Steampunks.
T11 decks will only be sold at T11 stores/retailers. The USPC versions are intended for broader sale in more shops. The USPC boxes are a little cheaper to produce, but the card stock and finish are all the same. Just like the extra cards in the USPC Guardians deck were different from the ones in the T11 versions, the USPC Steam Punks have slight differences in the extras and jokers. I fail to see the "crappier" part of all of this. (And believe it or not, some people PREFER a non-embossed box because they use a Porper clip that would ruin the embossing anyway.)
Remember, it's not the box that matters - it's what's INSIDE. The cards themselves, ace through king, spades, hearts, clubs and diamonds, are no different in either box.
T11 made a deal with USPC to make deck releases like this because I think USPC wants a somewhat larger share of the custom market than they're getting right now. Most of the best custom decks are USPC-made, but for second parties, not for themselves.
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I think it is kind of stupid that these were made. Why not just have the T11 ones, these are just a more crappy version of T11s Steampunks.
The T11 version is more expensive than the USPCC version.
So, I think it's just for a different group of prospective customers.
T11 is for a serious card collectors and magicians, while the USPCC version is for everyone..
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Unless you're a box magician, I'm thinking it's the cards that matter more. You think you can't be a serious magician without a shiny box?
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Unless you're a box magician, I'm thinking it's the cards that matter more. You think you can't be a serious magician without a shiny box?
The color of the cards are a little bit different. And I think the T11's shade is more elegant.
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Unless you're a box magician, I'm thinking it's the cards that matter more. You think you can't be a serious magician without a shiny box?
The color of the cards are a little bit different. And I think the T11's shade is more elegant.
That could be a trick of the light when the photos were taken - I'll let you know when I receive my USPC version sometime next week.
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Remember, it's not the box that matters - it's what's INSIDE. The cards themselves, ace through king, spades, hearts, clubs and diamonds, are no different in either box.
The numbered code on the ace of spades, or the USPC logo on the jokers... That I can deal with. But the standard-colored court cards just look horrible if you compare them to the T11 colors imo, and don't suit the back design at all... And the darker red on the red cards is another major difference in terms of overall look.
I'd choose blue or black rider backs over those with an equal price/availability.
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I'm guessing these two versions is how T11 said this wasn't their deck back in November.
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Remember, it's not the box that matters - it's what's INSIDE. The cards themselves, ace through king, spades, hearts, clubs and diamonds, are no different in either box.
Really? I'm sure I saw some comparison photos of them. The USPC versions have normal coloured court cards, whereas the theory11 version has the slightly more gold coloured ones. And I think the red pips are a little darker on the theory11 version, too.
But, as you said, I guess it's possible that it was a trick of the light, although I'm pretty sure it wasn't. But hey, once you open them up, we can know for sure!
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Maybe the cards are slightly different in color. As I see it, it's just offering more choices. When is that ever bad?
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Court cards are definitely different...
(http://i43.tinypic.com/28qp74.png)
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Yeah, thanks for the link, Derek911 (http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?action=profile;u=2090). That was the picture I had seen before.
Maybe the cards are slightly different in color. As I see it, it's just offering more choices. When is that ever bad?
Haha, I totally agree. While having to buy two decks is obviously less favourable than just needing to buy one (for a collection, this is), I quite enjoy the choice. And if I have some spare money, then I'll get both. Then I can choose which one to use whenever I please!
Also, while I know some people will disagree with this point, it seems nice to be able to say that I have both editions of the Steampunk deck, rather than just 'I have the Steampunk deck', if there was only the theory11 version. I'm not sure why this is, it just seems more fulfilling to be able to have both versions of a deck. Psychological, I guess...
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Yeah, thanks for the link, Derek911 (http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?action=profile;u=2090). That was the picture I had seen before.
Maybe the cards are slightly different in color. As I see it, it's just offering more choices. When is that ever bad?
Haha, I totally agree. While having to buy two decks is obviously less favourable than just needing to buy one (for a collection, this is), I quite enjoy the choice. And if I have some spare money, then I'll get both. Then I can choose which one to use whenever I please!
Also, while I know some people will disagree with this point, it seems nice to be able to say that I have both editions of the Steampunk deck, rather than just 'I have the Steampunk deck', if there was only the theory11 version. I'm not sure why this is, it just seems more fulfilling to be able to have both versions of a deck. Psychological, I guess...
You never "have" to buy ANY deck! You choose to! I've never heard of anyone needing a deck of playing cards to cure cancer or being held at gunpoint and robbed of their Bicycle Rider Backs...
You're more of a "completist" collector - you want all the variants. That's an expensive way to collect, but if it makes you happy and you don't go broke, more power to ya, bro!
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You never "have" to buy ANY deck! You choose to! I've never heard of anyone needing a deck of playing cards to cure cancer or being held at gunpoint and robbed of their Bicycle Rider Backs...
You're more of a "completist" collector - you want all the variants. That's an expensive way to collect, but if it makes you happy and you don't go broke, more power to ya, bro!
Haha, of course I meant that in a loose sense of the word. Don't worry, no one's got me at gunpoint here. ;)
And to be honest, I think you'd call me a "stingy completist" collector. I enjoy having all the different editions of a deck, but only if it's cheap. For example, I don't really mind about getting either of the two Artifice v1 decks. I'll only get the other editions if I would consider them cheap no matter what deck they were (obviously, excluding standard decks here). For instance, I won't be getting a Red Artifice, because I ask myself "Would I pay $35+ for a deck of Steampunks/Artifice v2s/Infinity's?" I'm not explaining myself very well here, but I think you get the gist of what I mean; I like to get all the different editions of a deck, as long as they're cheap.
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Basically its an uglier, simpler, and less expensive version?
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Basically its an uglier, simpler, and less expensive version?
Some people like to have champagne dreams, but live on a beer budget. For them, the cheaper deck is a good alternative. Also, if you like the design but want a "bang-around" deck to use when performing, one that you don't mind as much if it gets handled by all of creation, the USPC deck is a good alternative.
I'll say it again - since when is more choice a bad thing?
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after reading the other comments I see why people would want the cheaper deck but I think the embossing was one of the nicest parts of the deck, also the court cards changed to regular bicycle kinda wreck it, they would have been good if they hadn`t changed the court cards.
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I'll say it again - since when is more choice a bad thing?
This sentences explain it all.
Just buy the T11 version and don't care about the existance of the USPCC version.
It's simple.
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after reading the other comments I see why people would want the cheaper deck but I think the embossing was one of the nicest parts of the deck, also the court cards changed to regular bicycle kinda wreck it, they would have been good if they hadn`t changed the court cards.
The embossing isn't on the DECK, it's on the BOX! It's not a selling point of the cards, despite what T11 loves telling people! Does it look cool? You bet. Does it affect performance, handling, shuffling, the ability to faro, etc.? Not one freakin' bit.
(Funny side note: there's a toy museum that compiled a list of the favorite toys of all time. The number one toy? The box that the toys came in!)
I'm certain that using the USPC standard Bike faces was in some way cheaper, or they wouldn't have done it that way. This looks like an effort to modify the model set with the Guardians - the USPC version was an exact copy, down to the ink, stock and finish, except for the deck box and the extra cards, and they sold for somewhat less than the T11 version. I think this time they're trying to see just how much cheaper they can make the USPC version and raise their profit margin while keeping the price lower before people decide ordinary Bikes would be a better option.
Remember, a HUGE number of people buying the USPC version in whatever stores will be carrying it will have NO IDEA that a T11 version exists, never mind what it looks like and how it handles. But knowing that, these will be selling in stores that likely carry Bikes as well, and they're going to cost less. USPC wants to add value to the deck while at the same time making it as cheaply as they can, in hopes that people will recognize the added value over Bikes (or whatever dollar-brand that store may be carrying as well) and buy it instead of Bikes at a slightly higher cost.
In an economy like this, though, I think it's a bad idea. In the '90s, when people all over were more flush with cash and had more disposable income, buying a premium product wasn't thought of as that big a deal - it was almost expected. Now, people are losing jobs and counting pennies, and those dollar-store decks are looking a lot more attractive to some. At the most, if they're more serious about playing poker (one of the most common purposes for buying new cards in the first place) with "real cards" that don't handle like crap, even if it is only a nickel-ante game, they'll buy the basic red and blue Bikes and that's it - perhaps even buying the dozen brick to economize, since per deck they cost usually under a buck-and-a-half. Even a discounted premium product is still a premium product, and there are decks out there at an acceptable level of quality for less.
Here's a thought - do we yet know if the USPC Steam Punks use the same stock? If I spot a difference when I get mine, I'll let you guys know.
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There isn't any embossing on the theory11 Steampunk deck. There is debossing BUT its not noticeable at all. Its as if its not there.
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Debossing, embossing, yes-bossing - it's all Greek to me. But yes, it's there, subtle though it may be, and it costs as much as a more noteworthy debossing job would, since in the end it's still debossing. You can see in the photos of the USPC deck that there is a difference when compared to the T11 deck. I certainly noticed it on the T11 deck, and I think anyone else opening it would figure it out sooner or later, once their fingers stroked the copper-esque box.
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Theory11 actually made the bronze paper used on the box so that is different than the USPCC one
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Basically its an uglier, simpler, and less expensive version?
I tend to think both are ugly. Aside from the box of course.. :-[
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Basically its an uglier, simpler, and less expensive version?
I tend to think both are ugly. Aside from the box of course.. :-[
OK, you play with the box. I'll play with the cards. Sounds fair to me! :o
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When did USPC release their own version of Propagandas? Guardians I've seen; I have all three versions - two from T11, one from USPC. I also noticed that BMPokerWorld recently got Propaganda back in stock at a mere $9.95 a deck. T11 did say there was a Propaganda V2 coming out, but I haven't heard anything about it actually releasing yet, unless those BMPW decks are the new release...
well theres two separate editions that ive found.
http://www.the1eyedjack.com/servlet/the-495/Propaganda-deck/Detail
http://www.the1eyedjack.com/servlet/the-203/Theory-11/Detail
from what i gather, one is from ohio and has tally ho stock while the other is from kentucky. i dont believe theory11 sold the kentucky ones so i just considered it as a second verison since they're different.
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When did USPC release their own version of Propagandas? Guardians I've seen; I have all three versions - two from T11, one from USPC. I also noticed that BMPokerWorld recently got Propaganda back in stock at a mere $9.95 a deck. T11 did say there was a Propaganda V2 coming out, but I haven't heard anything about it actually releasing yet, unless those BMPW decks are the new release...
well theres two separate editions that ive found.
http://www.the1eyedjack.com/servlet/the-495/Propaganda-deck/Detail (http://www.the1eyedjack.com/servlet/the-495/Propaganda-deck/Detail)
http://www.the1eyedjack.com/servlet/the-203/Theory-11/Detail (http://www.the1eyedjack.com/servlet/the-203/Theory-11/Detail)
from what i gather, one is from ohio and has tally ho stock while the other is from kentucky. i dont believe theory11 sold the kentucky ones so i just considered it as a second verison since they're different.
I'm going to continue this in a separate thread covering the Props, if you don't mind - it'll keep this thread on topic.
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the1eyedjack just tweeted that they are now selling the USPCC Steampunk decks on they're site
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First off, this is going to continue to happen. The USPC gets Theory11's design team basically for free, and Theory11 gets their ad card in the hands of thousands of folks who have no idea right now that Theory11 even exists. It's possible that Theory11 specified that the custom court colors were to be "theirs only" as part of the deal, or that USPC decided that detail wasn't going to sell enough extra cards to justify the more expensive ink. You can rail against it, but this kind of thing will keep happening.
Now, here are several reasons why it's a great thing, yellow face cards or not:
- The USPC version of the deck fits nicely in the Theory 11 box, for those of you who like those boxes*.
- Suddenly you can use your Steampunk deck for tear'n'restore tricks, cheaply!
- USPC mainstream production means Amazon is likely to carry them. If that happens and you have a Prime membership, you're likely to get these for three bucks a deck including shipping. (Guardians are $2.63/deck right now. Robocycle was $3.63 for a few days in late December. It'll happen if they carry Steampunk as well. That means you'll be able to get 3-4 decks from Amazon for the price of what -one- deck would cost from most other places. Man, I wish T11, E and D&D used Amazon's fulfillment...)
To my mind the important question is whether the stock and finish are the same. If they're the same between the two versions, then they seem like a reasonable alternative. And think of the cool color-changes you can do with two different colorations of the same card. C'mon guys, more variety means more tools.
* And that's a whole other thread - you know what happens to that nice debossing when you put the box in your Porper clip? It comes out looking a whole lot more like the USPC version of the box. Squeezing makes things flatter, kids!
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so that's why i got a fake version of the guardians dek
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Yeah Masque makes some good points. I don't mind the two versions because I'm not a hardcore collector who has to have every version!! I like that there is a cheaper option, especially with all the decks coming out. It makes these decks much more accessible which is nice in a day and age of limited decks.
Also the business aspect to it is incredible for T11. Honestly this partnership was a game changer!
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Also the business aspect to it is incredible for T11. Honestly this partnership was a game changer!
Actually more of a continuation of the game. The USPC version of Guardians includes the same T11 ad card that the T11 version does!
*Edit: scratch that, looks like this is an ad card specific to the USPC Guardians. Also of note - after the USPC Guardians were released, T11 released the V2 Guardians which were the same cards… but with a nicely embossed box! Sound familiar?
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so that's why i got a fake version of the guardians dek
Fake? No, its a USPCC reprint but definitely not a fake
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In regards to the USPCC Guardians I acctually like those, the add cards have a T11 add card and a quick little trick on the other one which is cool and unique.
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The entire T11/USPC partnership is beneficial to everyone involved, including the customers. Who DOESN'T want more deck variety, or to be able to buy great designs cheaply enough to make them practically disposable? Who thinks the new version of bicyclecards.com looks a good deal better than the old one (though it still lacks in information and functionality).
I'm just kind of shocked that the 800-pound gorilla of the market, Ellusionist, didn't cut such a deal before T11. I'd think they were a perfect fit - though they may have felt it was better to keep their designs exclusive to their company instead of letting USPC get a hold of them for reprints in their own brand name. So far, all the "USPC-ized" T11 decks have "Bicycle" in the name, while E stopped using the Bicycle brand name from Arcane going forward (just over a year ago, it would seem).
In time, it wouldn't surprise me to see some more phasing out of the numerous Bicycle "black" decks they made, since they're less popular now, and they'd keep the Masters (and perhaps the Series 1800, and maybe not the Shadow Masters) out of the basic utility of both deck lines. Red and Blue Rider backs haven't gone out of style for nearly 125 years now...
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The entire T11/USPC partnership is beneficial to everyone involved, including the customers. Who DOESN'T want more deck variety, or to be able to buy great designs cheaply enough to make them practically disposable? Who thinks the new version of bicyclecards.com looks a good deal better than the old one (though it still lacks in information and functionality).
I'm just kind of shocked that the 800-pound gorilla of the market, Ellusionist, didn't cut such a deal before T11. I'd think they were a perfect fit - though they may have felt it was better to keep their designs exclusive to their company instead of letting USPC get a hold of them for reprints in their own brand name. So far, all the "USPC-ized" T11 decks have "Bicycle" in the name, while E stopped using the Bicycle brand name from Arcane going forward (just over a year ago, it would seem).
In time, it wouldn't surprise me to see some more phasing out of the numerous Bicycle "black" decks they made, since they're less popular now, and they'd keep the Masters (and perhaps the Series 1800, and maybe not the Shadow Masters) out of the basic utility of both deck lines. Red and Blue Rider backs haven't gone out of style for nearly 125 years now...
The partnership is not better for anyone except Theory11 and USPCC, actually. First of all, for us producers, the fact that our designs and products are essentially at the hands of a competitor is insane. This is basically a monopoly creating a trust. It's offensive that T11 has any sway at all with the company that I am a client of. Basically, a lot of their recent policies seem to reflect T11's agendas. Furthermore, custom deck makers are now competing directly with the USPCC itself, except instead of seeing the USPCC throw out gimmicky decks, they are having them designed by whoever T11 finds to make them, and T11 profits from the sales. Basically, our competition is branded as the official brand of USPCC, which leads many people to (falsely) think their cards are of sound quality. This is a total farce, since their designs are clearly rushed and lack major elements like theme relevance and depth. Since 100% of USPCC decks are of great handling quality, there really is no basis for the idea that T11 makes "better" decks.
Second of all, it's terrible for collectors. Two different editions of the same deck? Things are getting more complicated than they need to be very quickly.
I guess the plus side is there for flourishers who are strapped for cash, since it seems you will be able to pick up luxury decks at local stores for relatively cheap prices. However, I would argue that this is terrible for the card economy.
When you start creating luxury products for the masses, suddenly they are not luxury anymore. What happens next? Prices plummet, which is what we are seeing right now. Why shell out $40 for a "luxury" deck when you can get something that is just as good at your local supermarket? Demand drops, and the people that suffer are those of us that are actually invested in the card community.
Of course, the last part may be reading into the situation a bit much, but if anything is taken away from this post, it's the fact that the partnership is disgusting and the #1 reason I am looking to switch printers, and it's also going to be sad to see people using decks like the Steampunk in performances due to how easily it's found.
And yes, the Monachs and the Steampunks are abominations. One is over hyped, the other has nothing to do with its theme and is akin to calling your television a banana popsicle.
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IF u switch printers who else will make them as good as the USPC ??
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IF u switch printers who else will make them as good as the USPC ??
Gemaco and Cartamundi seem to be the only decent national brands.
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I think you should stick with USPCC, they offer the highest quality and when I go to a site and find a new deck of cards, if it isn't a USPCC deck I feel it isn't as good of quality, I have a couple different gemaco decks that handle like garbage but I have never handled the cartamundi thing you are talking about
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It's interesting to see your view on the subject Alex. You being a card producer and having a direct relationship with USPCC is very different than me as a consumer. I know we are connected in the big picture, but you may see some of the effects of the situation differently.
@Aaron I don't think there really is an easier option for Alex. USPCC offers the best quality and they have a good reputation when it comes to quality.
@Alex have you ever thought about trying a different company? Even though USPCC offers "the best there is to offer"
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The entire T11/USPC partnership is beneficial to everyone involved, including the customers. Who DOESN'T want more deck variety, or to be able to buy great designs cheaply enough to make them practically disposable? Who thinks the new version of bicyclecards.com looks a good deal better than the old one (though it still lacks in information and functionality).
I'm just kind of shocked that the 800-pound gorilla of the market, Ellusionist, didn't cut such a deal before T11. I'd think they were a perfect fit - though they may have felt it was better to keep their designs exclusive to their company instead of letting USPC get a hold of them for reprints in their own brand name. So far, all the "USPC-ized" T11 decks have "Bicycle" in the name, while E stopped using the Bicycle brand name from Arcane going forward (just over a year ago, it would seem).
In time, it wouldn't surprise me to see some more phasing out of the numerous Bicycle "black" decks they made, since they're less popular now, and they'd keep the Masters (and perhaps the Series 1800, and maybe not the Shadow Masters) out of the basic utility of both deck lines. Red and Blue Rider backs haven't gone out of style for nearly 125 years now...
The partnership is not better for anyone except Theory11 and USPCC, actually. First of all, for us producers, the fact that our designs and products are essentially at the hands of a competitor is insane. This is basically a monopoly creating a trust. It's offensive that T11 has any sway at all with the company that I am a client of. Basically, a lot of their recent policies seem to reflect T11's agendas. Furthermore, custom deck makers are now competing directly with the USPCC itself, except instead of seeing the USPCC throw out gimmicky decks, they are having them designed by whoever T11 finds to make them, and T11 profits from the sales. Basically, our competition is branded as the official brand of USPCC, which leads many people to (falsely) think their cards are of sound quality. This is a total farce, since their designs are clearly rushed and lack major elements like theme relevance and depth. Since 100% of USPCC decks are of great handling quality, there really is no basis for the idea that T11 makes "better" decks.
Second of all, it's terrible for collectors. Two different editions of the same deck? Things are getting more complicated than they need to be very quickly.
I guess the plus side is there for flourishers who are strapped for cash, since it seems you will be able to pick up luxury decks at local stores for relatively cheap prices. However, I would argue that this is terrible for the card economy.
When you start creating luxury products for the masses, suddenly they are not luxury anymore. What happens next? Prices plummet, which is what we are seeing right now. Why shell out $40 for a "luxury" deck when you can get something that is just as good at your local supermarket? Demand drops, and the people that suffer are those of us that are actually invested in the card community.
Of course, the last part may be reading into the situation a bit much, but if anything is taken away from this post, it's the fact that the partnership is disgusting and the #1 reason I am looking to switch printers, and it's also going to be sad to see people using decks like the Steampunk in performances due to how easily it's found.
And yes, the Monachs and the Steampunks are abominations. One is over hyped, the other has nothing to do with its theme and is akin to calling your television a banana popsicle.
OK, you've shown how it can suck, I'll grant you that. But in the end, I think it was pretty much inevitable, and a sign that the bubble is getting closer and closer to bursting point. Imagine you're USPC - you offer to make custom decks for companies, they start getting incredibly artistic and creative with it compared to your own "vintage" and "colors" series, and you're seeing them get a larger and larger share of a market you want to be in. Partner with a custom deck company, any major in the field (like T11) with a raft of deck ideas, and suddenly you are getting a chunk of that share - which as you said, puts them directly in competition with their own customers.
I think, however, that T11 may be steering this in a direction that impacts competition less. Their first collaboration in playing cards, the Bike Guardians, were practically identical in every way except for the deck box and the ad cards. With the Steampunk deck, they're adding more differentiation between the "luxury" T11 model and the "standard" USPC release. The embossing is gone, sure, but so are the custom card colors - and it wouldn't surprise me to find they went for a lower grade of stock or finish as well. While T11 may be reaping benefits from the partnership, I think they're also trying to be careful not to kill the goose that's laying their golden eggs. They want a difference in quality to make their product special, better and worth extra.
If I had to guess, the alteration of the strategy likely came when T11 noticed a bit of a drop in Guardians sales after people discovered they could get the same deck, same quality for less as the USPC version. You want to sell a luxury product, you have to have luxury features that the standard model doesn't have, or else it, too, becomes a standard model, but with a higher price point - in other words, market suicide. (Maybe they though the fancy box was enough to make it worth more... Let's hope they learned that lesson!)
@ Aaron, brown_baggs - I talked briefly with Alex on the topic when he was in New York. I handed him a Gemaco deck that not only looked good but had decent handling to it as well - the1eyedjack sells it, it's the "House of Blues Atlantic City" uncanceled casino deck. Thing is, Gemaco is yet another subsidiary of USPC, so it would largely depend on just how independently USPC is letting them run their operations - are they basically free to do what they want, like Fournier, or are they in the process of being absorbed into the USPC Borg, like Hoyle and countless others?
Other than that, there's Cartamundi. I have yet to see a decent-handling paper Cartamundi deck - the Magic Castle decks are shockingly bad, obviously meant for tourist consumption. But their plastic Ace deck, standard model (jumbo index) sold at Barnes and Noble, has excellent handling properties, better than most plastic decks out there. The only deck I've seen even close to it in handling/performance made of plastic was the Karnival Death Heads, made by Fournier. (Though the Death Heads have a crappy, flimsy box for a deck that's supposedly nigh-indestructible.)
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@Sabacc I know about those other decks and I have a few from some of the other companies. Seeing how some of this is new I was just wondering how Alex felt about it, which leads back into my question...
@Alex (http://twitter.com/Alex) have you ever thought about trying a different company? Even though USPCC offers "the best there is to offer"
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@Sabacc I know about those other decks and I have a few from some of the other companies. Seeing how some of this is new I was just wondering how Alex felt about it, which leads back into my question...
@Alex (http://twitter.com/Alex) have you ever thought about trying a different company? Even though USPCC offers "the best there is to offer"
When we met and spoke, he was considering it. Hadn't made a solid decision, largely due to lack of viable alternatives.
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I see...
Alex care to chime in on this matter? :)