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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Evan on December 16, 2011, 10:40:19 PM
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Some of the older Ellusionist decks are finally getting performance coating.
Heres a pic of the Red Masters decks! Someone posted this pic on twitter.
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awesome! but i have never felt performance coating
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awesome! but i have never felt performance coating
Performance coating is also the magic finish BTW. So i am sure you have felt it before and just not realized it.
Also Evan nice find, maybe ill restock on some E decks sooner then i thought.
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i know the other name is magic finish, but none of my decks have it
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awesome! but i have never felt performance coating
Performance coating is also the magic finish BTW. So i am sure you have felt it before and just not realized it.
Also Evan nice find, maybe ill restock on some E decks sooner then i thought.
It may not be a 100% chance that you get the Performance Coating ones
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awesome! but i have never felt performance coating
Performance coating is also the magic finish BTW. So i am sure you have felt it before and just not realized it.
Also Evan nice find, maybe ill restock on some E decks sooner then i thought.
It may not be a 100% chance that you get the Performance Coating ones
Well they have to reprint the deck to get the new finish, and they do large print runs, so its a good chance ill get the performance coating, and if not ill get uv500 air flow on the masters so its all good.
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If you want a Performance Coating deck, get a deck in 2011, that's probably the earliest time where they have put those on. I just got my Shadow Masters with that deck - I love it!
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all my decks i have bought in 2011!
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all my decks i have bought in 2011!
I believe he meant decks released in 2011. Those are pretty much guaranteed to have Performance Coating.
Here's the best guess as to how many UV500 decks are left.
http://arethereanyuv500decksleft.com/
Most if not all of the deck not on this list are now using Perf Coat on their new print runs. The only exception I know if is the blue 1800s, and that may no longer be true.
If only we had someone at E who could chime in on this topic... (coughMARCUScoughJAKEcough...)
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E told me that the link isn't theirs. So, the numbers might not be accurated.
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The guy who maintains the site is on the Discourse, I think. He checks in to see what stock remains for decks still being issued with UV500 Air-Flow stock/finish by adding large numbers to his shopping cart, seeing where it maxes out, then emptying the cart. Seems to be reasonably accurate, at least for a ballpark figure.
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The guy who maintains the site is on the Discourse, I think. He checks in to see what stock remains for decks still being issued with UV500 Air-Flow stock/finish by adding large numbers to his shopping cart, seeing where it maxes out, then emptying the cart. Seems to be reasonably accurate, at least for a ballpark figure.
Oh, understood, thank you for clearing up.
Actually we should have similar thing on D&D's decks. LoL
I just noticed that the V6 was 69 bricks before, but now they put the maximum 12 bricks in.
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Yeah, I imagine they don't want customers crying foul when one aftermarket seller swoops in and buys the entire stock in a single purchase!
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Could anyone enlighten me as to what the difference between these two coatings is exactly?
The performance coating is the same as a tally-ho deck, right?
Is UV500 an Ellusionist exclusive?
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no, tallys do not use performance coating. idk what the difference is, but i am sure that someone on here does.
as for the uv600 airflo it WAS an E only stock and finish, but they no longer are able to use it.
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my green and blue artifice have that finish my masters has the uv one and i think my others just have what they normally have.
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The Infinity, LTD, Gold Arcane and all the Artifice versions and colors are all 100% guaranteed to be printed with the Performance Coating finish. The Shadow Masters, white and black Arcane decks, red 1800's have been reprinted with the Performance Coating finish and should most likely be of that finish if you order, but there might be one or two decks of the old finish left that can end up in your package. I've only heard that happen once so far, but I'll still mention it. The red Masters deck has obviously been reprinted too, but I don't know whether or not we have any decks with the old finish left in stock as I haven't had time to check it out.
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I didn't know that the 1800s were UV500 finish! They don't feel like it to me. Weird.
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I didn't know that the 1800s were UV500 finish! They don't feel like it to me. Weird.
UV500 is the stock, not the finish but yes, they originally had it
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UV500 is the stock, not the finish but yes, they originally had it
Damnit, I always forget that UV500 is the stock. I'll remember that. Does it say that anywhere on the box?
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Some of the older Ellusionist decks are finally getting performance coating.
Heres a pic of the Red Masters decks! Someone posted this pic on twitter.
For accuracy: https://twitter.com/#!/PlayingCardBlog/status/147336431239569408
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So, what stock are the new masters made of then?
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So, what stock are the new masters made of then?
If i had to guess it would be bicycle casino stock.
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So, what stock are the new masters made of then?
If i had to guess it would be bicycle casino stock.
Is there such a thing as "Bicycle casino stock"?
The only thing I can say with certainty is that like most Ellusionist decks, the Masters are made of a stock that's heavier/thicker than standard Bicycle stock. Some knock how they handle for this, but I've never had much trouble (except for the old Series 1800 decks). It's why when you order a Porper deck clip from E, you're given the option of "for Ellusionist decks" or "for standard decks".
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So, what stock are the new masters made of then?
If i had to guess it would be bicycle casino stock.
Is there such a thing as "Bicycle casino stock"?
The only thing I can say with certainty is that like most Ellusionist decks, the Masters are made of a stock that's heavier/thicker than standard Bicycle stock. Some knock how they handle for this, but I've never had much trouble (except for the old Series 1800 decks). It's why when you order a Porper deck clip from E, you're given the option of "for Ellusionist decks" or "for standard decks".
I'm pretty sure theres a difference between the standard bicycle stock and the Bicycle Casino Stock.
And I think that most E decks have Bicycle Casino stock now.
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Are bicycle cards even used in casinos? I thought they had been replaced by plastic cards for the poker tables and I'm pretty sure Bees are used for blackjack...
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Are bicycle cards even used in casinos? I thought they had been replaced by plastic cards for the poker tables and I'm pretty sure Bees are used for blackjack...
From what I know, no, they aren't used in casinos.
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Are bicycle cards even used in casinos? I thought they had been replaced by plastic cards for the poker tables and I'm pretty sure Bees are used for blackjack...
It is the name they gave to the thicker higher quality version of the bicycle stock.
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They might not be named to use in casino's, but a few might use them. Usually casinos use decks that have their name on it. That's always why you see Bee deck with names on Casinos on their back design.
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I've only seen casinos in the US using three different stock types: Bee, Aristocrat and Gemaco Casino. My knowledge of casinos isn't voluminous, but I don't think there's a single legitimate casino in the country using Bicycle cards or card stock. Closest you'll find is the Kem decks printed with the Bicycle brand name on them, and those are 100% plastic.
I picked up one of those Kem/Bicycle WSOP deck sets from this year's match - they're kinda cool. The cards are textured on one side, smooth on the other - first time I've ever seen that on any deck. Haven't had much time to really fiddle with them yet, but I will soon.
no, tallys do not use performance coating. idk what the difference is, but i am sure that someone on here does.
as for the uv600 airflo it WAS an E only stock and finish, but they no longer are able to use it.
Tally Ho uses Linoid Finish, their traditional finish since they were first introduced by A. Dougherty over a hundred years ago. I couldn't tell you what goes into it, but it's not the same as Magic Finish. And I'd wager that the Linoid Finish formula has been tweaked over the years, if for no other reason than that there were chemicals used in finishes in the past that aren't considered environmentally safe or are simply no longer made.
UV500 stock was known not only for being heavy and sturdy, it also glowed under a blacklight, something most card stocks don't do. E stopped using it when the price jumped 700% higher from one particular order to the next. USPC wasn't the culprit - it was the paper mill creating the card stock. Understandably, E didn't want to suddenly start charging $30 or $40 a deck...
UV500 is the stock, not the finish but yes, they originally had it
Damnit, I always forget that UV500 is the stock. I'll remember that. Does it say that anywhere on the box?
If your deck box reads "UV500 Air-Flow Finish" on the side, it was the original stock. Most of them now say "Air Cushion", even some of the recent red 1800s that have Performance Coating on them. I'm guessing that future print runs will also state "Performance Coating". I guess USPC decided that "Air Cushion" wasn't the only finish name that could be used on a Bicycle deck after all...
The older decks, be they UV500 Air-Flow or Air Cushion, didn't handle very well. I think it had something to do with the inks used in creating the aged look not playing nice with the coating. Newer decks made with Perf Coat handle slick as glass, just like any other recent Perf Coat/Magic Finish deck. To my knowledge, though, they haven't made any 1800 blue decks with Perf Coat yet, or at least that's what they were saying a few months ago. That may have changed - only someone here like Marcus or Jake would know for certain.
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is the uv500 better or perfomance coating ?? what is your opion
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is the uv500 better or perfomance coating ?? what is your opion
UV500 is a type of paper. Performance Coating is a type of finish. You're trying to compare two totally different things.
If you're asking if Performance Coating is better than or worse than "Air-Flow Finish", the answer is a definite YES. Performance Coating/Magic Finish is USPC's state-of-the-art card finish.
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The older decks, be they UV500 Air-Flow or Air Cushion, didn't handle very well. I think it had something to do with the inks used in creating the aged look not playing nice with the coating. Newer decks made with Perf Coat handle slick as glass, just like any other recent Perf Coat/Magic Finish deck. To my knowledge, though, they haven't made any 1800 blue decks with Perf Coat yet, or at least that's what they were saying a few months ago. That may have changed - only someone here like Marcus or Jake would know for certain.
Ah, okay. Thanks a lot. I'd love to pick up a new Performance Coating 1800 deck. I love the design, but hate the handling. I'll make sure to get one soon. :)
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The older decks, be they UV500 Air-Flow or Air Cushion, didn't handle very well. I think it had something to do with the inks used in creating the aged look not playing nice with the coating. Newer decks made with Perf Coat handle slick as glass, just like any other recent Perf Coat/Magic Finish deck. To my knowledge, though, they haven't made any 1800 blue decks with Perf Coat yet, or at least that's what they were saying a few months ago. That may have changed - only someone here like Marcus or Jake would know for certain.
Ah, okay. Thanks a lot. I'd love to pick up a new Performance Coating 1800 deck. I love the design, but hate the handling. I'll make sure to get one soon. :)
The Series 1800 decks are still not good, even with performance coating. I don't recommend them at all, unless you really aren't going to use them much.
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The Series 1800 decks are still not good, even with performance coating. I don't recommend them at all, unless you really aren't going to use them much.
Oh, really? Hm. I might just pick up one to see the difference, then.
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The older decks, be they UV500 Air-Flow or Air Cushion, didn't handle very well. I think it had something to do with the inks used in creating the aged look not playing nice with the coating. Newer decks made with Perf Coat handle slick as glass, just like any other recent Perf Coat/Magic Finish deck. To my knowledge, though, they haven't made any 1800 blue decks with Perf Coat yet, or at least that's what they were saying a few months ago. That may have changed - only someone here like Marcus or Jake would know for certain.
Ah, okay. Thanks a lot. I'd love to pick up a new Performance Coating 1800 deck. I love the design, but hate the handling. I'll make sure to get one soon. :)
The Series 1800 decks are still not good, even with performance coating. I don't recommend them at all, unless you really aren't going to use them much.
Really? From what I've heard from Alan Paoletti, they are now great!
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The red is good now. But the blue isn't.
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I didn't know that the 1800s were UV500 finish! They don't feel like it to me. Weird.
UV500 is the stock, not the finish but yes, they originally had it
Are you sure? I have a deck of red 1800's from like 2008, they are neither AirFlow nor UV500.
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Are you sure? I have a deck of red 1800's from like 2008, they are neither AirFlow nor UV500.
Yeah, mine say Air Cushion Finish too. They're from either '08 or '09. But isn't that just Bicycle's odd terms? That you need to say on the box that it's Air Cushion Finish, even if it isn't. Although, I'm not too sure how the Masters or Ghosts managed to get around that. But I think that's the reason why the 1800s say Air Cushion Finish on the side, although I'm not too sure.
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I know Bicycle has those rules, but I think they are either recent, or just recently enforced. I got my 1800's with one of my first ever purchases from E. In that same purchase I got a red Master's which has AirFlow UV-500 written on the box. I think when E started experimenting with different stocks and finishes on their decks they started naming them. USPCC either didn't notice or didn't care at the time, but when around the same time they stopped making UV-500 decks, they also stopped printing AirFlow on the boxes.
For more information on the transition away from UV-500 stock and the AirFlow vs Air Cushion conversation check out their blog post http://blog.ellusionist.com/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-uspc-ellusionist-but-were-afraid-to-ask/ (http://blog.ellusionist.com/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-uspc-ellusionist-but-were-afraid-to-ask/)
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For more information on the transition away from UV-500 stock and the AirFlow vs Air Cushion conversation check out their blog post http://blog.ellusionist.com/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-uspc-ellusionist-but-were-afraid-to-ask/ (http://blog.ellusionist.com/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-uspc-ellusionist-but-were-afraid-to-ask/)
Wow, thanks a lot. I've been looking for something like this for a while.
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The Series 1800 decks are still not good, even with performance coating. I don't recommend them at all, unless you really aren't going to use them much.
The new red 1800s are slicker than grease. They haven't improved the blues yet. I had both reds, the difference is night and day.
Are you sure? I have a deck of red 1800's from like 2008, they are neither AirFlow nor UV500.
Yeah, mine say Air Cushion Finish too. They're from either '08 or '09. But isn't that just Bicycle's odd terms? That you need to say on the box that it's Air Cushion Finish, even if it isn't. Although, I'm not too sure how the Masters or Ghosts managed to get around that. But I think that's the reason why the 1800s say Air Cushion Finish on the side, although I'm not too sure.
I know Bicycle has those rules, but I think they are either recent, or just recently enforced. I got my 1800's with one of my first ever purchases from E. In that same purchase I got a red Master's which has AirFlow UV-500 written on the box. I think when E started experimenting with different stocks and finishes on their decks they started naming them. USPCC either didn't notice or didn't care at the time, but when around the same time they stopped making UV-500 decks, they also stopped printing AirFlow on the boxes.
For more information on the transition away from UV-500 stock and the AirFlow vs Air Cushion conversation check out their blog post http://blog.ellusionist.com/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-uspc-ellusionist-but-were-afraid-to-ask/ (http://blog.ellusionist.com/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-uspc-ellusionist-but-were-afraid-to-ask/)
The Air-Flow thing went hand in hand with the UV500 stock. When they switched out the UV500, it started being labeled Air Cushion, and that's what it was. The first Performance Coating deck they released was the Gold Arcane, and it was still labeled Air Cushion. The whole "Air Cushion only on a Bicycle deck" was pretty recent, around the same time as the end of the UV500 stock, but it appears that USPC's lawyers finally went and had that operation to remove the sticks out of the asses, since we're seeing Perf Coat on reprints of old E Bikes and Magic Finish on other new custom Bikes.
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I'm thinking they haven't upgraded the blue ones yet because they have too much leftover stock... People always seem to prefer red bikes for some reason.
Blue needs more love :-\
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I'm thinking they haven't upgraded the blue ones yet because they have too much leftover stock... People always seem to prefer red bikes for some reason.
Blue needs more love :-\
Most special magic decks come in two colors, but many don't. It's cheaper to make only one color, and for most of those decks, the default is red Rider Back. The Ultragaff deck is a prime example of this. So for anyone wanting to do a series of tricks with some deck swaps and other stunts, the red Series 1800 would end up the more popular choice, especially if someone wanted to use a double backer to create an "aged card" effect with an 1800 card swapped into a standard Bike deck.
BTW: I can't be the only person who noticed that the Series 1800 deck is a one-way back? And that it's the only one-way back I've ever seen that when the backs are all in the same alignment, the fronts are in mixed alignment? If I needed a one-way back for regular use, that might be the one I'd choose. Well, maybe a Phoenix deck, too - or perhaps a marked Phoenix deck...
:)
Only gaffed Bike deck I've seen only in blue is the Ontology Project, available on the D&D site with an accompanying book explaining the multiple miracles the deck is reputedly capable of. I've been thinking of checking it out myself but I've been really busting the bank this Christmas season - I must have spent well over a grand at E alone...and only a small amount of that on cards!
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My total for the past two weeks is 275$, those holiday deals were too good to pass... ::)
By the way, you just made me realize the practicality of a subtle one-way back for magic... I had never thought of it before. And by mixed alignment, you mean some faces have the weathering reversed?
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By the way, you just made me realize the practicality of a subtle one-way back for magic... I had never thought of it before. And by mixed alignment, you mean some faces have the weathering reversed?
The backs are done in an identical, asymmetrical pattern. Granted.
Most decks done with an asymmetrical pattern have all of the faces oriented in alignment with the backs. This way, say for example you're holding the deck vertically in your hand - when all the backs are oriented right-side-up, the fronts will also be oriented right-side-up. Some cards have directional indicators built into their pip pattern - the ones that don't you can usually tell by the nearly-universal off-center cut. (The level of precision to print all the faces on the exact same spots as all the backs is extremely difficult, so when a deck is center-cut to the back pattern, the faces will usually end up slightly off-center.) This means that a sharp observer might notice the card faces are all oriented the same way with at most just the chosen card oriented the opposing way, from which he or she might deduce that you're using a one-way deck.
With the Series 1800 decks, assuming you're holding the deck the same way as before, when all the backs are oriented right-side-up, only about half of the faces will be right-side-up, leaving the rest turned upside-down. This makes it harder to tell from the faces if the deck indeed has a one-way pattern. The mix appears to be fairly random, not following a pattern - my guess would be that the card sheet back was printed with the card backs oriented one way on the left and the opposing way on the right rather than the same way for the entire back of the sheet.
A subtle one-way deck can be a powerful and useful tool for magicians to use, and makes for a nice backup in case you screw up a trick, giving you a way to still find the card (unless they're dropped or shuffled incorrectly).
A partial listing of all known recent-issue subtle one-way deck designs:
Bicycle Karnival - from original to Dead Eyes
Bicycle Guardians
Bicycle Series 1800
Phoenix "Phoenix Back", regular and marked decks, all formats.
Bicycle Gargoyles (and pretty much all the other Diavoli decks other than the Bikes in colored Rider Backs).
Split Spades Bee and Tally-Ho decks - I suspect it was a printing accident since it was removed for the SS Lions.
ANY stripper deck, except for ones that are professionally cut with an extremely shallow edge. I have a few of these shallow-cut decks, and they're nigh impossible to detect, good enough to fool a magician.
I'm sure there's more but my brain is hanging up the "CLOSED" sign for the night...
;)
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Vortex also has a one-way back that is pretty hard to find unless you know exactly what you're looking for.
Oh well, let's just hope they eventually do run out and have to reprint the blue 1800s... I don't do magic, and I'm not gonna buy red ones just for the finish. It's not like it's the only deck with performance coating. Artifice, here I come. ::)
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Every deck and its cousin is coming out with Magic Finish, Performance Coating or Premium Finish these days - all three names for the same product. So yeah, you have choices!
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... a sharp observer might notice the card faces are all oriented the same way with at most just the chosen card oriented the opposing way, from which he or she might deduce that you're using a one-way deck.
You think so? I've been doing a trick for years that relies on the detail of bikes having a thicker border on one side. No one has ever picked up on it, I feel like a marked deck, someone might notice, but that kind of subtlety, only a magician would pick up on that. (of course your performance must match your execution)
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... a sharp observer might notice the card faces are all oriented the same way with at most just the chosen card oriented the opposing way, from which he or she might deduce that you're using a one-way deck.
You think so? I've been doing a trick for years that relies on the detail of bikes having a thicker border on one side. No one has ever picked up on it, I feel like a marked deck, someone might notice, but that kind of subtlety, only a magician would pick up on that. (of course your performance must match your execution)
As I said, a SHARP observer. Say, a card sharp. Or a magician! Someone insanely good with observation and details. They're rare, but they do exist.