PlayingCardForum.com - A Discourse For Playing Cards
Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Design & Development => Topic started by: xela on December 16, 2011, 02:23:33 AM
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Back before Firefox & Chrome took over the web, IE was top dog. Via CSS, developers were able to actually have the scroll bars on their sites match the site themes. The results were actually often very cool.
I recall reading up on why they disappeared, and it had something to do with Firefox not reading that CSS as proper code, while IE read all kinds of improper code.
If any of you were avid browsers of the web in 2000-2005 you probably remember this feature.
I personally miss it.
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i remember it, i actually miss it as well
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One thing that played a major part in it is that Safari didn't and doesn't read custom scroll bars by default (you could turn this off but 99% of the people don't alter their browser's settings, let alone a setting just for the scroll bar).
I personally don't miss it because if I need a cool custom scroll, I just use Javascript and make scroll bars go on steroids. One problem is that most custom scroll bars (both CSS and Javascript ones) aren't very user-friendly.
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One thing that played a major part in it is that Safari didn't and doesn't read custom scroll bars by default (you could turn this off but 99% of the people don't alter their browser's settings, let alone a setting just for the scroll bar).
I personally don't miss it because if I need a cool custom scroll, I just use Javascript and make scroll bars go on steroids. One problem is that most custom scroll bars (both CSS and Javascript ones) aren't very user-friendly.
Was Safari in any way a widespread browser at the time? Even now, its market share is less than 10% I believe.
Occasionally you would find a site with a horrible designed scroll bar, but I always thought that when done professionally, they looked very nice. And while you can modify scroll bars today, it's just not a common practice. I can't name a single site I know that has one.
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True, but from I remember it's because of the overall browser support (WebKit with Safari being only part of that) that Firefox finally chose to not support the CSS. It did work in FF on and off. But yeah, the feature was made by and for IE, and of course they probably hoped to set a new standard but I suppose other browsers started to get tired of them coming up with new, non-standard features. ;)
If done like this, it's a major win: http://www.upenn.edu/curf/fellowships/fellowships-directory (http://www.upenn.edu/curf/fellowships/fellowships-directory) , but to do that in CSS wouldn't be very solid anyways. Thank God for Javascript and the jQuery kit (although I never used the latter one, but that's just me).
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You could make a chrome extention to do this
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While I absolutely love what people have done to extend the customization and user-interaction of websites, I am not a fan of screwing with browser level or OS-level UI. I feel that having that consistency between all of your applications builds productivity. I know it sounds silly, that the color of a scroll bar could affect your productivity, but I personally feel that it does. Most people today are familiar with tabbed browsing, if all of your tabs have a consistent feel to them, except this awkward one with different colors, it throws you out of whack.
I know this is a magic forum, so I'll throw something out there that might be a little familiar. Anyone familiar with Derren Brown's work, or the wave of NLP research he brought to that magic community has undoubtedly seen the clip of him asking for a man to hand over his wallet and keys. This was (apparently) done with the 'handshake interrupt' method of covert hypnosis. What happens is that your brain is processing an unconscious action and then is interrupted. This causes your brain to start hunting for direction, "Give me your wallet" is direction. The same kind of phenomenon can occur with a user's browsing experience (on a much lower level of course) where they are browsing and switching tabs. Subconsciously expecting a certain result and then they are interrupted with this unusual scroll bar. It can take them a moment to process what's happening.
A website's core purpose, usually, is to deliver information to a viewer. When they have to stop to process the color of the scroll bar, this slows down (albeit only a little) the rate at which that information can be received.
Wow, that was an awfully long and drawn out explanation of why I am against colored scroll bars.
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Wow, that was an awfully long and drawn out explanation of why I am against colored scroll bars.
Awfully long, yet very correct. It is one of the core factors of how user-friendly interfaces are, and custom scroll bars don't score quite as high as the default one just because of what you said.
But isn't this a playing card forum? Ah well, I know there are quite some magicians on here so I hope they all seen the Russian 'Gypsy Hypnosis' Scam clip. If not, hereby: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-TURhK90_8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-TURhK90_8)
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i only saw different colors and they looked nice but i dont miss them.
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As touch/tactile interfaces become more prevalent, scrollbars also are on their way out. Note that in Android/iOS and now in Mac OS Lion, the scrollbars disappear unless actually in the process of scrolling. This new approach gets back that screen real estate (which is precious on a mobile device) while being just as informative as the old way.
With many web-based functions now having equal (or more) traffic in the mobile space, I think we'll see some of the older UI conventions start to fade away as time goes on.
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Strangely the lack of a scroll bar on a page (unless being utilized) does not bother me. I do however remember seeing pink and green scroll bars on the sides of my IE6 windows. This was a discomforting experience although it arises nostalgic feelings for things like AngleFire and Geocities. How I long for websites with GIF fireworks and a visitor count ticker...
We have come a long way in web design folks, let's never go back!
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I'm not a designer. I'm a user. Most users like SIMPLE. Goofy color changes aren't simple. Consistency in basic interfaces is simple. It's a rare car that has the brakes on the right pedal in the US, or has the steering wheel replaced with a joystick control. Why mess with simple? The info is important, not the means used to reach it.
'Nuff said.
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Back before Firefox & Chrome took over the web, IE was top dog. Via CSS, developers were able to actually have the scroll bars on their sites match the site themes. The results were actually often very cool.
I recall reading up on why they disappeared, and it had something to do with Firefox not reading that CSS as proper code, while IE read all kinds of improper code.
If any of you were avid browsers of the web in 2000-2005 you probably remember this feature.
I personally miss it.
When i found this thread yesterday, i immediatly thought of CSS3.... Tried it out on my *ehem* personal site and i couldn't get it to work....
This is definatly something to look into, as it is indeed a very cool feature.
What i believe to have found is to color scrollbars for iFrames, im looking into coloring the main scrollbar right now ;)
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...... I still use Internet explorer, I dont see anything wrong with it :) 8)
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no don't remember
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...... I still use Internet explorer, I dont see anything wrong with it :) 8)
You are still young... ;)
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IE version 9 and up stole so much from Chrome and Firefox that it's actually not bad, now.
I'm still religiously using Netscape Navigator 2, of course.
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IE version 9 and up stole so much from Chrome and Firefox that it's actually not bad, now.
I'm still religiously using Netscape Navigator 2, of course.
WOW - now that's old school web-surfing... Any particular reason why? Are you having trouble supporting more modern stuff like the assorted plug-ins, Flash, etc.?
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Well, I'm just kidding. :)
I'm using a mix of Comodo, Iron and Firefox (whatever the latest is now), depending on what 'm doing at the time.
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...... I still use Internet explorer, I dont see anything wrong with it :) 8)
Design just 1 modern website, try to make it look exactly the same in all browsers, and you will very quickly see what's wrong with it. ;)
I estimate I've wasted collective weeks of my life changing perfectly good, standards-compliant websites to make them work in IE.
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I estimate I've wasted collective weeks of my life changing perfectly good, standards-compliant websites to make them work in IE.
Weeks? Wow, you're on the low end of the world.
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Design just 1 modern website, try to make it look exactly the same in all browsers, and you will very quickly see what's wrong with it. ;)
I really don't know much about this at all but having undertaken very minor web development i the past, doesn't the amount of CSS stuff you're supposed to put in specify the size, shape etc. of everything that we can see?
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IE is the bane of my existence.
By the way guys, guess what we brought back in Discourse v2? A custom scrollbar. :) It only works in Chrome, though, but you shouldn't be using any other browser anyway. We have not been testing anything for IE as far as I know, and I am generally lax on IE errors (if the site functions in that god awful browser, then that's as far as things should go).
I personally prefer punishing IE users, and if it didn't affect business, I would make sure anyone viewing the site from IE would have their browser crash. Honestly, it's not even pre-installed on most PC's anymore. You have to go out of your way to use the worst browser in the world, and for that you would deserve punishment. :P
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It only works in Chrome, though, but you shouldn't be using any other browser anyway.
Fanboy. ;)
I'll be sticking to firefox, thank you. I like having the option to get whatever the hell I want out of my browser.
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Now now ladies, keep your teeth to yourselves, everyone knows Opera is the leading winner in browsers. ;D
I can't even say that with a straight face.
* Chrome User
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Then again, Opera is a decent browser if you compare it to IE. And they came up with some of the features that are now in every browser. ::)
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I use Safari, Firefox, Chrome, and Opera. Never ever ever IE. My college even says nothing on their site works on IE so don't use it haha :-[
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I use Chrome and IE. The company I work for uses an internal application that embeds IE into a WPF Window, it's glorious in all the worst ways. So in order to test code changes, I often have to open IE (the homebrew web controls do not work correctly in any other browser).
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My weapons of choice are Firefox and Safari for Mac OS X, version 10.5 - haven't upgraded yet.
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Lately I've been using rockmelt. Not a very common one really.
I had some problems with chrome so I switched to rockmelt because it is basically the same thing with only a few changes. At the core it's the exact same thing actually!
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Lately I've been using rockmelt. Not a very common one really.
I had some problems with chrome so I switched to rockmelt because it is basically the same thing with only a few changes. At the core it's the exact same thing actually!
Never heard of it. What are the benefits/drawbacks, and for what OSes is it made?
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Lately I've been using rockmelt. Not a very common one really.
I had some problems with chrome so I switched to rockmelt because it is basically the same thing with only a few changes. At the core it's the exact same thing actually!
Never heard of it. What are the benefits/drawbacks, and for what OSes is it made?
It's basically Chrome with social networking built in. It's aimed at those who use facebook and surf the web a ton. If you like to have access to facebook while on another page it's good, but I find that the constant feed of information is just annoying, so I've turned the feature off.
Well it's only compatible with Intel Macs OS X 10. 5 or higher and Windows.
Here's the link if you're interested... http://www.rockmelt.com/ (http://www.rockmelt.com/)
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Lately I've been using rockmelt. Not a very common one really.
I had some problems with chrome so I switched to rockmelt because it is basically the same thing with only a few changes. At the core it's the exact same thing actually!
Never heard of it. What are the benefits/drawbacks, and for what OSes is it made?
It's basically Chrome with social networking built in. It's aimed at those who use facebook and surf the web a ton. If you like to have access to facebook while on another page it's good, but I find that the constant feed of information is just annoying, so I've turned the feature off.
Well it's only compatible with Intel Macs OS X 10. 5 or higher and Windows.
Here's the link if you're interested... http://www.rockmelt.com/ (http://www.rockmelt.com/)
It sounds nice, but I'm not a big social networking kind of guy. I'll stick to Safari and Firefox.