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Messages - ecNate

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51
A Cellar of Fine Vintages / Re: Democracy Playing Card Company
« on: September 14, 2015, 05:29:04 PM »
I can tell you that the Hochmann price guide suggests $550 for excellent condition which I'm guessing yours is (provided it is complete).  +/- $200 if condition details put it a rank above or below. 

Out of respect for the guide and encyclopedia, not to mention my time, I won't dig into it more, but you can buy them here for cheap - http://shop.conjuringarts.org/store/pc/Hochman-Price-Guide-2nd-Edition-ePub-p1179.htm#.Vfc7q9KrSuU

At the very least I'll just say it's worth finding a proper appraiser or auction house if you want to sell.

52
A Cellar of Fine Vintages / Re: Democracy Playing Card Company
« on: September 14, 2015, 03:33:02 PM »
Must work on Google-Fu   ;)

Apparently from 1918, contact the owner of this site who may have more information for you
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02093/d02093.htm

Also, prior auction
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4483746_sonderbilder-non-standard-democracy-playing-ca

Found this via Google Books (from Walden's Stationer and Printer, Volume 44)


Quote
New Faces on Playing Cards Some wonderful new playing cards have come on the market and it is all due to the collapse of royalty in Germany It began during a game of bridge in the Arctic Club in Seattle at a gathering of rugged pioneers from the land of Rex Beach Jack London and the Northern Lights The great World War was then early in 1918 at it height but the American troops had reached the firing line and the doom of monarchy was foreshadowed One of the players asked What are we going to do for playing cards now that kings andqueens have passed out of existence IC Gaffney hardy pioneer of the land of malamuts aml golden sands in whose veins courses a full tide of red American blood answered It will be simple enough In place of the old kings and queens who have illuminated cards since the first game was played we will construct an all American deck by using the intrepid Ace of the American air forces for the Ace the Boy in Khaki the K boy the king of all men for the king For the queen we will use the queen of all women our brave nurses who succored our boys on the field of battle and administered every comfort that Divine care could provide And as for the jack continued Mr Gaffney the real Jack of the seas the lad lwho took them over and brought them back a sailor boy in costume will well serve for the jack in this new American deck of playing cards Modern writers on the history of playing cards Mr Gaffney observed have repeatedly asked the question Why do we still remain saflsfied with the grotesque meaningless faces used on our playing cards Numerous demands have been made heretofore to change the faces on playing cards but without success But never has a combination like the group originated by me in Seattle been created to appeal to the public The American appeal or originality in playing cards is meeting with such success that it has been extended to other countries using the Ace Soldier the Nurse and the Sailor in the national uniforms of the respective foreign countries I have some wonderful letters from Senators Congressmen and Governors all over the country endorsing the idea of bringing into use in this country a hundred per cent American deck of cards One good point in the success of the card which is assured from a player's standpoint is that the index do not interfere in the playing of all games of cards This novel and patriotic line of playing cards is being sold by the Democracy Playing Card Co of 110 W 40th Street New York and is permanently exhibited in the Bush Terminal Sales Building

Also,

53
Design & Development / Re: Rotters Deck
« on: September 08, 2015, 04:38:44 PM »
Agree with Don here 100%, but my bigger concern is you still haven't fulfilled your past project.  Still waiting for mine anyhow after you have had them for 2.5 months, the only thing saving you is you had listed October delivery.  Still, this doesn't inspire confidence on backing again no matter how good/bad the future deck is.

54
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Post Your Collection / Your Newest Acquisitions
« on: September 02, 2015, 04:08:36 PM »
@EvanEssence: when i'll stop drooling, perhaps i'll ask you from which shop did you bought them? :D

You missed the KickStarter for this?   >:(
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1894542039/arcana-playing-cards/

They may show up on the artist's website (http://deadonpaper.com/collections/playing-cards) later, otherwise possibly a few retailers and ebay may have, but I expect they will be at a premium.

55
Repost of mine from UC, but sharing here too.  Bottom line, totally recommended if you like this display method.  Personally I have mine worked out differently, but this would be good for a select few or as display method as an alternate tuck for those without one.

Got mine today, well packaged with bubble wrap, but would have preferred in a mailing box instead of cardboard document envelope.  Arrived undamaged though, bubble wrap did the job and I imagine the acrylic is pretty resilient anyhow so not really an issue.  Crazy fast shipping too!

I also am pleased with the magnet strength, it's the perfect amount of cling factor.  I put a few decks in them and also am using some as pseudo-tucks for a few decks that don't have one.  The extra room allows the cards to bounce around if handled much, but I just set on a shelf standing in vertical display mode so not a big deal.  I also included in the upper arc those decks that I would have liked to fit, but don't fit the dimensions.  Sherman gave lots of dimension details so I wasn't expecting them to fit, but for the others be aware these really only fit the common modern poker size tucks.  See image for some examples that don't fit.  I was really hoping my Vanity Fair deck would fit, but SO close and not quite enough.   :(   Oh well, over all I'm happy with them and may have to reconsider using more to display some top 10 decks or something on a shelf together (the rest I have in hanging wall display cabinets).


56
The Source - Card Collecting 101 / Re: How to make cards?
« on: August 19, 2015, 05:52:24 PM »
I added a few more links in my post above about finances/business side that are specific to KickStarter. 

In addition, Don (who is also available for hire to help with deck design/projects) had a SUPERB write up in this thread that I'm copying here for easier reference


Asking what collectors look for in a deck is like asking a thousand different people from different parts of the world what their favorite meal is and why.  You're very unlikely to get the same answer twice.

That deck type your talking about <minimalist> has been popular for a reason - people like it.  It's originally a design that was used in casinos (still is, for some) and arguably the deck that kicked off the current trend is the Wynn Casino's brown deck that Theory11 was selling for a while - something about how that deck (and not the other colors, interestingly enough) handled made it popular with cardists (people who separate card flourishing from magic and make it a new art form of its own).  As the deck became desirable, people started equating the deck with desirable design, even though when you really think hard about it, the design's about as dull as dishwater - it's a simple logo shown twice on a field of color.

Also interesting is that the original deck didn't have standard faces like all the "Wynn clones" do today - it used Jumbo Tech Art II faces, of the type typically used at a casino's blackjack table.  Combined with a mirror in the table, it allows the dealer to not know his or her exact hand, but to know whether they're holding a blackjack or not - it reveals the presence of Aces and all cards of a value of ten.  Tech Art faces, however, are not well suited for ordinary card play because of the varying placement of the indices from value to value.

Collectors look for things that are interesting and unique, but also attractive and professional in appearance.  They should look like they were designed by a professional and not your eight-year-old niece with the glitter-and-unicorns addiction on her first attempt at designing anything.  That doesn't mean it can't contain hand-drawn cartoon art, but it should look like a professional did the work - it should look like the kind of thing people would read in newspapers or pay money for at a bookstore.

On the subject of design themes, there are trends that should be watched.  You watch them not only to know what's popular, but what's overdone and fully saturated in the marketplace.  Everyone remembers the first team that reached the peak at Mount Everest - almost no one knows the 12th team, the 432nd team, the 16,543rd team, etc.  If you're team #43,864, you'd better do something truly unique if you want to be noticed, like have the fastest time to the top, jump off the peak in a wing suit or hold Burning Man Nepal up there.  For those same reasons, if you're making the tenth "minimalist" deck of the year or the fifteenth steampunk deck or even the third clown/circus deck, you need to find some way to make your project unique.  Either add something to it that no one else has, or do it better than all those that came before you (not just most, ALL).

There are certain rules of design that hold true for playing cards, especially standard decks, and there are certain needs for different audiences.  For example, a poker player that's hardcore into tournaments will never use anything other than a matched pair of plastic, bridge-sized cards with 100% bog-standard faces and a fairly simple back design that's two-way (exactly the same when rotated 180 degrees).

Magicians will get a little more adventurous - they'll use poker-sized decks (unless they have smaller hands; then they'd use use a bridge-sized deck) with enough standard features that the audience will recognize them as being like the cards they have back home.  If the back is one-way, it will be subtly one-way rather than obviously, with barely perceptible markings to indicate orientation.  Back designs can vary widely - some will go for something whacky and custom, others will stick to the standards.  People occasionally think that if a magician breaks out a custom deck, it must be a trick deck - nothing could be further from the truth.  If anything, it's the magician using the standard Bicycle Rider Back deck that you should be wary of - there are arguably more trick decks and gaff cards in that design than in any other design in the entire world!  But when performing for a general audience, a magician will often stick to a design that people will recognize.

There are other types of people, other features they look for in a deck, etc.  The design rules of playing cards, much like any design rules, can be bent or even broken - but again, like in any other field of design, if you're going to break a rule, you generally should have a reason for doing so that's integral to the design and isn't "because I didn't know any better."  When breaking such rules, you may reduce the playability of a deck's design - however, you might be doing something else to that design that makes it more appealing in a different way; you might be making it more artistic, you might be appealing to a specific audience and their unique needs, etc.  For example, I think the Bicycle E-Z See Lo-Vision deck is ugly as sin, especially when factoring in that the cards have suits in four colors.  However, that deck wasn't designed for me or for a general audience - it was designed for people with failing vision, so it has exceptionally large markings.  The use of four colors instead of two for the suits means that you don't have to rely on seeing the suit clearly to identify the card's suit - the color will do that for you, and make it more difficult for you to mistake one red suit for the other or one black suit for the other.  It makes certain types of solitaire a pain in the ass to play, but the deck serves a specific purpose and does so very well.

I think I've rambled on long enough here!  But I hope you're getting some sense of what I'm trying to convey here.

If you want to take a new design over to Kickstarter, ask yourself a few questions before you launch.

  • Is my design unique?  If my design is not unique, is it special in some way?  Is my design borrowing in any way another person or company's intellectual property, and if so, do I have either permission/licensing to use it or the legal right to use it (and do I have the resources to defend that legal right, should the IP owner become litigious)?
  • Does my design have a theme?  Is it a common theme shared by other designs, and if so, am I doing it better or in a unique way when compared to what came before?
  • What is my target audience?  What design features appeal to that audience?  Have I incorporated most if not all of those features in my design?
  • Am I breaking any rules of design?  If so, do I have an adequate reason for doing so that will increase rather than decrease my design's appeal to my audience?
  • Who will manufacture this deck?  What services, features, etc. do they offer?  What level of quality do they provide, and is it enough for my needs?  Are they trustworthy and reliable, with a proven track record?  Are they experienced at making playing cards, and more specifically, the kind of work I need done for this design?
  • Have I accounted for every single penny I need in order to make this project a reality?  Have I adequately accounted for shipping and handling costs, both domestic and international?  Did I remember in include a modest-to-robust profit margin while at the same time not pricing the deck too high for my target audience?  Will potential backers think they're getting good value for what they're spending or will they feel it's overpriced (or underpriced)?
  • What arrangements have I made for the logistics of getting those decks from the printer into the hands of my backers?  Do I have contingency plans for when things go sideways and pear-shaped?
  • What do I need to legally sell playing cards in my state/province/country at wholesale and at retail?  Do I need to register or obtain licensing as a commercial entity?  Will I be selling remaining stock after the project is fulfilled at retail or will someone else do all the retail selling for me - and if so, at what cost to them and at what price to their customers?  (In the US and probably elsewhere, you're legally prohibited from setting retail prices for the retailers that buy at wholesale from you, but you can ask retailers to voluntarily sell your cards at a specific price, what's commonly called the "manufacturer's suggested retail price," or MSRP.)
  • How will I account for this income when filing my income taxes at the start of the new year?  Have I discussed this with an accountant or a tax attorney?  How do I go about paying taxes correctly?  (Failure to collect taxes or report the income can create a world of problems that most people simply don't want to live in!  The greater the income, the greater those problems can be.  Kickstarter is legally obligated to withhold income taxes from projects exceeding a certain financial threshold, and it's not a high one, but you still have to properly account for the income and insure the correct taxes are paid in the right amounts - and if you overpaid, that you get your excess money back!)

57
I'm almost ashame that one month ago, i posted a pic with my last aqusition..... ??? and now, if I'm looking at your "half" collections, i ask myself if i should stop collecting playincards (.... no..... i'm not giving up).

PS: My No.17 are on the way!

Consider it something to aspire to!  :))


Or as a cautionary tale, depending on your wallet and spouse approval factor.   ;)  Just focus on collecting what you really like, set boundaries and follow them, the rest will happen and you'll get to where you want to be over time.

58
The Source - Card Collecting 101 / Re: How to make cards?
« on: August 12, 2015, 10:35:22 AM »
Given the turns this is taking I think this really should be in design and development???


Keep in mind different goals and motivations people may have if anybody looks to move forward because yours may be different than others giving you advice and knowing and sharing that is critical.  Some just want to see their vision realized and have a deck created, making money or even losing some is acceptable.  Others may want to raise a little side cash and others may want to actually run it as a business.  Decisions about costs, time/effort put into a proper business plan and budget analysis will vary (CRITICAL step for all though), printer choice, method of fulfillment/shipping and related pricing, printer choice etc are all related.

Hopefully everybody knows about USPCC, Expert and Legend for larger quantities and excellent quality.  MPC was always a popular choice for shorter runs and especially for a prototype creation.  However, there are tons of other printers if you don't care about quality or even just want them to print on demand and sell the deck for you. 
http://www.usplayingcard.com/customcards/
http://legendsplayingcards.com/pages/custom/
http://expertplayingcard.com/#custom/
http://www.cartamundi.com/en/print/product/playing-cards-tailor-made/
http://www.makeplayingcards.com/promotional/custom-poker-cards.html/
https://www.admagic.com/full-color-and-photo-custom-playing-cards.html/
http://libertyplayingcards.com/playingcards/index.html/
http://www.tmcards.com/custom-playing-cards.php/
http://www.artscow.com/photo-gifts/playing-cards/playing-cards-54-designs-313/
http://www.printerstudio.com/unique-ideas/custom-poker-cards.html/
https://www.thegamecrafter.com/custom-playing-cards/
http://www.drivethrucards.com/joincards.php/
http://www.zazzle.com/playingcards?dp=252660197916733907

You can also work with HOPC, Gambers Warehouse, etc who are producers that create decks and can assist in the process for a fee.

Lastly, you can submit your art to companies who typically will give you a a few bricks of the printed deck and/or a small cut from proceeds as they do all the work after.  The PCF contest with EPCC, Gamblers and a few others come to mind who do this.  Also as mentioned before, Drive Thru Cards and Game Crafter will also allow you to upload your designs and then print your deck for yourself, but will let you leave your design out there with a price and others can then buy and print on demand as well.

Finally, some dose of reality and analysis of cost links for KickStarter related projects:
http://albinodragon.com/blog/dragon-crate-kickstarter-analysis/
http://albinodragon.com/blog/book-1-the-pain-of-the-wind-a-lesson-in-scale/
http://albinodragon.com/blog/why-you-should-set-realistic-pledge-levels-a-pledge-breakdown-46f7d3/
http://albinodragon.com/blog/shipping-or-as-i-like-to-call-it-the-fastest-way-to-go-bankrupt-on-kickstarter-30fb07/
http://albinodragon.com/blog/running-a-minimalist-campaign/
http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2013/11/core-ks-breakdown/
http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2013/09/robot-turtles-midmortem-at-250k/
http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter-lesson-7-the-funding-goal/
http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/25/8102751/exploding-kittens-kickstarter-rich

59
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Elaine Lewis and other 'rare' designers
« on: August 09, 2015, 02:26:42 PM »
A number of Peter Wood's decks were very limited.  There's also the recent Ambras deck creator, I 'think' she did a number by hand and even on demand, but I might be confusing artists.

60
I'm still not sold on the blue, but that is MUCH better.  You'll also avoid the risk of colors not transferring from digital to print perfectly and bleeding into each other.  Apparently even more common if you design in RGB instead of CMYK, but that's just what I've heard.

61
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Avernum - by Passiones Playing Cards
« on: July 27, 2015, 10:00:57 AM »
Noted! I rarely upload pictures except from the app Tapatalk, it's fast and easy (don't want to switch topic, but why isn't PCF there?), but I will try doing it next time, thanks.
Fo example, when these cards get to me, maybe!

See here, but I'm with you.  PCF not supporting Tapatalk is why I'm usually found elsewhere.  http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=6510.0


As for the decks, I reserved one and thanks for the reminder, I need to look for my login details to get mine!

62
Design & Development / Re: Redesigned SWARM deck in the works
« on: July 23, 2015, 02:42:12 PM »
I'm half tempted to make this set of courts available within the creative commons. I'm tired of seeing Frankenstein versions of courts being used by everyone and their brother. I personally wouldn't mind giving these to any who would find good use for them.

That would be really great if you would do that.  Depending on your specific rights releases this may result in some really bad decks showing up on Kickstarter, but some good ones may come from it.  More importantly, new designers would see how things are done and could study it and use as a starting point or just background template while working on radically different art in a new layer without any fear of violating some copyright.

63
Design & Development / Re: Deck Numbering
« on: July 23, 2015, 02:34:19 PM »
Pretty much that, it means nothing.  It's just a catchy number used to differentiate it from the others.  The number seen on some joker cards from Bicycle is often on a mile marker stone.

http://www.bicyclecards.com/article/the-meaning-of-808/

65
Design & Development / Re: ACTIVE playing cards
« on: July 15, 2015, 06:47:34 PM »
As you're new at it, it's best to completely fulfill your first project before moving on to your second.  It gives you a track record people can look to with confidence.

I hate this suggestion because it means I have to wait longer for this deck, but he's totally right.  Some like myself will gamble on a new designer and even a new designer with multiple projects open, but most won't and given I will want an uncut of this I would be more hesitant here.  Definitely wait for the other one to ship, then you could launch this one (possibly also day one quickly after or right after this ships).

It looks like the courts are revealing what's inside of them, their inner demons, their secret workings, but a secret.  It's a compelling story and interesting.  However, the QoD is confusing because it just shows them in their undergarments and no real secret, plus the orientation is all off on the other side and doesn't seem like it's showing "their other face/side".  Make the layout of the QoD similar to the others and have both sides tell a story, I would even have the Queen solo instead of with a partner since that doesn't add much here and breaks a bit too far from tradition without reason.

66
Design & Development / Re: ACTIVE playing cards
« on: July 11, 2015, 02:58:02 PM »
Please, go on, but with white background.


Per prior update that will be the plan, nobody took to the colors well, especially as gradients. 

Definitely removed the color - that was a bad move.


This is one of the most anticipated decks for me, hopefully we will get a date for the KS launch soon! Be sure to plan in uncuts for this one too!!!

67
Playing Card Plethora / Re: New Beautiful Macabre Deck
« on: July 09, 2015, 03:02:51 PM »
Perhaps advice is to first do a SMALL print run first then.  I would say MPC has greatly improved though and people are willing to get decks from them provided the prices for decks from them are in line.  Anything more then $12/deck isn't justified unless it's from a major printer (USPCC or maybe EPCC/LPCC), which will be even more critical since you have a limited pool of interested people from it not being a functional deck.

That said, personally I love this and unless you screw up the price I'm in even with the issues and concerns.  I still would have much rather seen a set of decks each with their own style.  Perhaps something to consider in the future if this first set goes well.

68
Playing Card Plethora / Re: New Beautiful Macabre Deck
« on: July 09, 2015, 09:35:38 AM »
So does that mean you are self funding it and selling directly, no crowdfunding? That also means when it's available in August it will ship right away?

What about website, when will that be up?

69
Playing Card Plethora / Re: New Beautiful Macabre Deck
« on: July 09, 2015, 01:07:25 AM »
I was hoping it was different versions of the deck, but is it just a single deck and the suits are that different? That won't do as well, but with change it could be a few decks. As an art deck it would be neat as is, but it kills the size of market.

I wasn't going to say anything until I heard more, but if that is the deck I hope you listen and make changes because I want this to happen and be the best it can be. That will also make it a success.

70
Playing Card Plethora / Re: New Beautiful Macabre Deck
« on: July 08, 2015, 06:02:23 PM »
Website not up yet?

I love the theme, but a bit tired and never got into steampunk/cthulu/octopus thing.  Still, if the price is good the rest will has me VERY interested.

71
The Source - Card Collecting 101 / Re: How to make cards?
« on: July 07, 2015, 11:30:05 PM »
If you mean the pre-production design side, it depends.  Most will use photoshop, illustrator or other professional level software for creating and editing images.  Use of a pen/tablet and layers in the software as well.  They will also use a template from the printer to make sure images are the proper size and placement to work with the printer's equipment.  Although, you can get away with something like Gimp or other free programs and just a mouse and single layer, but the results likely won't be there.  Many others will draw by hand and simply scan in, often converting to vector image and cleaning up the lines.  Some will sketch and then trace using a pen/tablet.

Some sites that focus on games, other printable material and apparently MPC allow for a web based designer that is more forgiving, but less precise.  That way you just upload an image and place it or even design fully online.

Look here for the options and play around with the designer and download the files.  http://www.makeplayingcards.com/design/custom-blank-card.html

Best option if you want to create a deck and don't have the knowledge or skills is to find an artist to work with you.  Good luck.

72
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Top Modern Decks to Collect
« on: June 18, 2015, 07:05:20 PM »
This seems to come up every once in a while, but of course it is heavily dependent on taste and time (because some fall out of favor faster than others), which for a modern deck hasn't happened yet. 

Still, a few key ones that come to mind besides Fed series - Origins, Seasons, all from Emmanuel Jose (especially Curator already mentioned), the new 52 Plus Joker decks, most Uusi decks (although I just have Hotcakes and Classic because all I really liked), etc.  I also think the yet unprinted Arcana will be in this list though.  Just browse the most funded sections of Kickstarter for ideas on what was popular and find ones that appeal to you.  Unless you are a speculator and hoping for increase in value, that's a whole other situation.
https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/playing%20cards?sort=most_funded
https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?term=playing+cards&sort=most_funded

Also see this
http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=6791.25;viewresults

73
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Question on Modern Decks
« on: June 01, 2015, 10:11:19 AM »
Assuming you rule out potential money laundering theories, the sold list at ebay can be a guide.  Unbranded black reserve note, scarlett tally ho, 52 plus jokers silver/club, etc all have been sold for a few hundred, especially any variants that were signed or especially gilded (would be pricey and fairly rare to begin with).


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=playing+cards+-lot&_sop=3&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xplaying+cards+-lot+-vintage.TRS0&_nkw=playing+cards+-lot+-vintage&_sacat=0

74
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Anybody recognize this deck?
« on: May 05, 2015, 12:06:10 PM »
I quite like these cards, would be cool to find out what they are.

My first thought when seeing them was that they looked like characters from Grand Theft Auto series.  Obviously it's not, but they do appear to look like Triad, Yakuza, Mexican Mafia or other organized crime figures.  Mostly due to the poses and attire, but I do get an asian or latin vibe from some of the clothes and hairstyles.  Hard to tell from some of the photos though.  That style reminds me of some of the art deco and art nouveau posters from years ago.  Does the deck seem old or new?

75
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Ace of Spades
« on: April 26, 2015, 11:47:28 AM »
Because old laws and tradition.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ace_of_spades.  Although other countries used other suits and certainly now there are no rules so all can be elaborate.

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