Prototype Deck

[Marvin347]

I'll be designing a deck of cards that is VERY color specific. I'm planning on using MPC to try out a whole bunch of variations to perfect it. My concern is that moving over to a print by Bicycle for a larger number of decks will result in different colors as it is a different printing process. I would be horrified if my future kickstarter went through only to receive 1000 or more decks that are essentially ruined. I would love to do a prototype with Bicycle if they would do that once I think the colors are good. I'm in the process of contacting Bicycle for a prototype, I know they've done them in the past for about $250. Not sure if anybody else uses the same printing process that would have them cheaper in the mid-term prior to my kickstarter.

[Don Boyer]

I'll be designing a deck of cards that is VERY color specific. I'm planning on using MPC to try out a whole bunch of variations to perfect it. My concern is that moving over to a print by Bicycle for a larger number of decks will result in different colors as it is a different printing process. I would be horrified if my future kickstarter went through only to receive 1000 or more decks that are essentially ruined. I would love to do a prototype with Bicycle if they would do that once I think the colors are good. I'm in the process of contacting Bicycle for a prototype, I know they've done them in the past for about $250. Not sure if anybody else uses the same printing process that would have them cheaper in the mid-term prior to my kickstarter.

Last I heard, they were charging much more than $250 for a prototype deck - more like double.  You can get a proof sheet for less, but it doesn't matter - the colors on a proof sheet or a prototype deck won't match 100% to what comes off the printing press because they don't use the printing press to make it - they use a digital printer.  The difference in the process will result in slight variations - not major ones, just slight.

I know a LOT of designers who use MPC for their prototyping work, even when they're printing with other companies like USPC and the like.  I wouldn't freak out about it too much.  MPC's actually been getting a lot better with their work over the years.

[shimmering]

Marvin, you should definitely insist on getting a hard proof before going ahead with the print run if the colours are super critical for the project. The idea of a hard proof is exactly to avoid the situation you are describing where the print is not coming out exactly as you imagine it. The hard proof should be exactly the same as the print run. I imagine all the major printers will offer this either as standard or as an option as part of the main print run. You should be able to change things if necessary at that stage having seen the proof (though maybe not for free).

A prototype deck is a different thing produced in advance. I'd always recommend doing that as well, and MPC is a good alternative as they do offer good cards with reasonably priced ultrashort print runs.

And yes you will probably find that the colours produced by different printing companies using different printing techniques (e.g. digital, or CMYK, or pantone) may not be an exact match, especially for one-off prints where the colours are not necessarily treated as super critical. For example, you may see a noticeably lighter or darker print. For most applications they will be easily good enough, and you may not notice if you are not looking. But I appreciate there may be cases like you are describing. I wonder what makes the colours so critical in your project.

[shimmering]

OK, Don says USPCC don't print the proof and the print run in the same way. Fair enough. I am sure he knows better than I do how things are in their factory. But that rather defeats much of the point of the proof to my mind.

[Marvin347]

Thanks for your replies. Good to know a prototype is printed differently. If the Kickstarter goes through I guess I'll be a nervous Nelly until the final product shows up. I'll be using MPC to start and hopefully there is some give in the deck I'm creating. It is a marked deck using different shades of colors and some tricky optical illusions that are essentially invisible to the naked eye.... The colors being printed differently than designed might be the difference between the deck no longer being marked or even worse being obviously marked and unusable. Card faces aren't sensitive but the backs will all have slight color variances to identify the card.

I agree that printing the final run and proof differently kinda defeats the purpose. For the artwork it makes sense but I guess nobody imagined a project that would be so color sensitive.

[Don Boyer]

OK, Don says USPCC don't print the proof and the print run in the same way. Fair enough. I am sure he knows better than I do how things are in their factory. But that rather defeats much of the point of the proof to my mind.

Creating a printing plate is a bit of an expense - it's why USPC doesn't use the same process for making proofs.  They print proofs on a digital printer so you can have some idea as to what the project will look like - it's not 100% identical, but it's pretty close in terms of color and it's exact in terms of the line work, placement of objects, etc.  So you might not see the precise shade of yellow you wanted on the clothes of the Queen of Hearts, but you will see if the Queen of Hearts has an index, one eye or two, the proper number of fingers on her hand, etc.

Thanks for your replies. Good to know a prototype is printed differently. If the Kickstarter goes through I guess I'll be a nervous Nelly until the final product shows up. I'll be using MPC to start and hopefully there is some give in the deck I'm creating. It is a marked deck using different shades of colors and some tricky optical illusions that are essentially invisible to the naked eye.... The colors being printed differently than designed might be the difference between the deck no longer being marked or even worse being obviously marked and unusable. Card faces aren't sensitive but the backs will all have slight color variances to identify the card.

I agree that printing the final run and proof differently kinda defeats the purpose. For the artwork it makes sense but I guess nobody imagined a project that would be so color sensitive.

If you use MPC, the "proof" is simply a one-deck print run (or more than one, if you choose).  You can get it as an uncut sheet or as a cut deck, your choice.  They're not perfect in their print work, but they've improved a lot and they're a good choice for a budget project.  I saw one project that had a lot of sharp lines and right angles in monochrome scheme - the prototype didn't come out all that good for it because of the digital printing process; you could see print lines from where the ink heads made their passes over the sheet.  But it was the nature of the project - a different design, something with more colors and perhaps some curves or something, might have better hid the rough edges that showed on this project.  No matter how you slice it, MPC will give you the best shot of success because you can print the tiniest of print runs - higher per-deck costs, but much tinier budget overall, allowing you to get the project off the ground with just a handful of backers and careful budgeting.