Duality Deck by Maven (EPCC) - LIVE on KS

[ecNate]

now LIVE, project from  Maven of Maven 776 Playing Cards.  More photos and background there.

I specifically wanted to make a modern deck of cards, using modern paper, modern ink, modern finishes but with an immediate look of being from the Middle Ages. I wanted it to be a little rough in some places and at the same time have an old-world elegance. Something that would look like it came straight from the time of the Master of the Playing Cards.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/336695519/duality-a-new-deck-of-cards-from-maven-playing-car

[Don Boyer]

I'm not big on the art, but that's an incredible process he used to make those plates - seriously ancient school.

[ecNate]

Updated render of all courts, note that the dark future stretch goal deck on the right (Duality Sombra) will have red indices yet to be added.

[MavenP.C.C.]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/336695519/duality-a-new-deck-of-cards-from-maven-playing-car


Hi guys, I have a new deck I created. I am a professional artist and I started making a deck of cards as a personal art-project. It is a rather different deck and certainly strange but it is a one of a kind deck. I put every ounce of my passion for cards into creating it. If you want more information on how it was created, please click the link above. If you would like to see more decks made using these long-forgotten techniques with quality hand-made art please support this project.
I still have a few other decks up my sleeve that are a return to standard decks but I need to finish this one first.
Also thanks to everyone so far that has pledged, every single pledge makes a big difference.

Ok guys and gals, if you have any questions just ask!!!

[Rob Wright]

Hey Mark, Welcome to the Forum. I see you have already introduced yourself. I merged your topic with the one we already have started. We try to keep topics to one per deck. It just helps keep the place tidy. Congratulations on getting a project started. Good luck to you.

[MavenP.C.C.]

Fantastic!! It looks much better nice and tidy. I made a couple updates describing when and what to expect from the number cards, uncut sheet layout and things for anyone and everyone who is interested.I`ve got a lot of work to do so goodbye for now. have a safe weekend.
-Mark


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/336695519/duality-a-new-deck-of-cards-from-maven-playing-car/posts

[MavenP.C.C.]

Also Rob I am also a Wright. Nice to meet you, I like that quote from Stephen Wright, he`s excellent..

[ecNate]

The old world charm on this deck has me smitten and I'm really hoping the dark Sombra edition is made a reality.  Are you guys not feeling it or have suggestions for the artist (although I think much of the critical work is already locked in)?

[MavenP.C.C.]

The old world charm on this deck has me smitten and I'm really hoping the dark Sombra edition is made a reality.  Are you guys not feeling it or have suggestions for the artist (although I think much of the critical work is already locked in)?

Thanks a lot ecNate, I really appreciate all of the awesome support. I wanted to let anyone that's interested, know that tomorrow night I will post the updated court cards, number cards  and uncut sheets with all of the pips in detail as well as the Sombra deck. I also am going to post the tuck box by Friday for both decks. I will detail how I would like the embossing and foil to be so hopefully you guys can share my vision.

I hope everyone can take a look at the video that's associated with my project to try and understand a little of what went into this deck and how I am trying to preserve a very old and wonderful playing card tradition. I specifically made a deck that looked nothing like the other stuff out there. I didn't want to have the same box  or the same courts and the same lines. I wanted something immediately identifiable as new and different. At the same time I want it to have a strange dark elegance. I feel I have achieved both of those things using these very old antiquated methods of hand producing a deck of cards.

If you have suggestions or things you would like to see or know more about send a message. I get curious people everyday who are a little perplexed by what I have made so lay it on me!!

Stay tuned for the rich color updates tomorrow night.
Thanks to all of you who have helped and contributed so far.

[HudsonDesign]

I cant help but love the process being used here.  Being a collector of junk, upcycler and recycler in my artworks generally any old or hand made process is something I find fascinating.

All just personal opinions of mine here of course.

Some things I just love about this deck.  All the queens except the club.  In fact the clubs in general remind me of a horror movie effect with the court faces and make me uneasy to look at them.  Which is amazing as I like the others a lot that are not like that.

I also really like the AoS and the back design.  But the colour is just not for me.  Its just a personal thing as it is for everyone though.  But its not my style.  I get the idea behind it though. And the tarnished bronze kind of thing suits the design Idea.

Isn't it interesting to see something so very nice but also a little off putting at the same time.  Just my perspective I guess.

[MavenP.C.C.]

I cant help but love the process being used here.  Being a collector of junk, upcycler and recycler in my artworks generally any old or hand made process is something I find fascinating.

All just personal opinions of mine here of course.

Some things I just love about this deck.  All the queens except the club.  In fact the clubs in general remind me of a horror movie effect with the court faces and make me uneasy to look at them.  Which is amazing as I like the others a lot that are not like that.

I also really like the AoS and the back design.  But the colour is just not for me.  Its just a personal thing as it is for everyone though.  But its not my style.  I get the idea behind it though. And the tarnished bronze kind of thing suits the design Idea.

Isn't it interesting to see something so very nice but also a little off putting at the same time.  Just my perspective I guess.

Thanks Hudson. I actually agree with you on a few things. I am curious though, which color back would you like to see? I made pretty much any color you could think of. If you had to pick one which would it be?

[HudsonDesign]

Im from the area of sandstone cliffs and some of the original old houses, and buildings and streets of Sydney are all built of big sandstone blocks.  Some covered with carvings and statues.

This back design made me think of that right away.  Again just a personal thing and I guess it could be a pretty boring idea to other people but the back looks carved from stone to me.

http://sydneyforeveryone.com.au/city/sydney/public-art-art-culture/civic-art-statues-buildings/

De.

[MavenP.C.C.]

Oh right on, I did not think about sandstone. Its actually supposed to be like a golden sun color. I am going to post a graphic that shows all of the colors I printed. Give me a few.

[HudsonDesign]

No worries.  Remember its just an opinion.  Everyones got one and no-one cares lol.  And I wouldn't want it to look specifically like sandstone if it was my deck.  But those wonderful shades of sand and cliff faces would look awesome IMO.  Although no-one else might like that at all.   

I'm a strong believer in an artist staying true to their own vision.  But I also have a big mouth.

But that Queen of Hearts.  Shes really pretty.  I could hand her on the wall in my office.

De.

[MavenP.C.C.]

 Hey there guys, I went ahead and made a sheet showing all of the colors and variations I made for this deck. Which one is your favorite for a deck of cards?
I had so many favorites I chose the top one to try and get a good representation of the variety. Whats your opinion???

[MavenP.C.C.]

Some more...

[MavenP.C.C.]

and the others

[MavenP.C.C.]

What do you guys think? Which one is your favorite for a deck??

[PurpleIce]

What do you guys think? Which one is your favorite for a deck??

Too much choices. LOL.

Try narrowing it down. Allows easier decision making and less diverse nominations. No point in having 50 people telling you their favourite and you end up in a result of 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1.......

Pick a few you personally like (there are quite a few which are very similar, so you can eliminate those) then only get some opinions. After all, this is your project. No point if the end result is something you don't like.

[HudsonDesign]

What do you guys think? Which one is your favorite for a deck??

Too much choices. LOL.

This exactly.  I'm going to give you my favorite 5 to choose from.  Along with everyone else.   

Saying that the bottom line on one of those has all those sandy tones that are really pretty for this IMO.

Side note I laughed my arse off once I realized what the text is for the "evil" smiley I used above.

Made my afternoon.

[MavenP.C.C.]

  absolutely!! Its been hard for me to narrow this down. So here is my top 8....

[Don Boyer]

absolutely!! Its been hard for me to narrow this down. So here is my top 8....

In order to save you a little on printing costs, you're better going monochromatic on the back design.

[MavenP.C.C.]

absolutely!! Its been hard for me to narrow this down. So here is my top 8....

In order to save you a little on printing costs, you're better going monochromatic on the back design.

Agreed. That will definitely help with the cost. I like all of them personally so Im happy with pretty much any of them.....

[HudsonDesign]

Agree with that too.  My favorite decks are always this way.  I like three best of these but again I still like the sandy ones best from up before.  I think you should just pick your own favorite though.  For every person that says its not for them there will be someone who screams about how awesome they are.  As long as you like them, thats what matters.

[BiggerDee]

Personally, I like 2, 6, and 8. I backed this project when it first came out even though I wasn't mega-fond of the existing back color.

[ecNate]

I really like how the original back colors give a really different feel, but many of the details in the lines are lost.  Plus if that does cause extra cost another reason to move away from it.  I agree that the monochromatic looks like #2 show much more detail and using a sandstone or muted color would give the feel of ancient without giving the faux aged paper look.

The landscape orientation really throws me off though, but understand that's the vision and changing it now would be quite a challenge.

[HudsonDesign]

Realized I was making it difficult after BiggerD posted I like 2 and 6 too if choosing from these.

[Expert P.C. Co.]

This deck is really amazing and if I can weigh in, don't worry about the costs yet. Make the best deck possible.
And since you are printing with Expert I can tell you that the extra color won't really cost you any more.
I probably shouldn't get a vote but #1 is my favorite and #2 seems perfect for Sombra.

[MavenP.C.C.]

This deck is really amazing and if I can weigh in, don't worry about the costs yet. Make the best deck possible.
And since you are printing with Expert I can tell you that the extra color won't really cost you any more.
I probably shouldn't get a vote but #1 is my favorite and #2 seems perfect for Sombra.

Great!! Thanks for all of the input. I really do appreciate it all. I`m thinking that I will stick with #1. I`ve recieved emails from people who are pretty set on it as well. I feel it is pretty representational of the project and I like the sun light effect.

Thanks again for the input guys!

[MavenP.C.C.]

Good evening everyone, Here is what uncut Duality will look like. I did not intend on it taking this long but I was really not wanting to rush anything. It was very important to keep the handmade colors and I think they turned out excellent. The deep red is a result of an ink I had mixed previously. However, on one occasion I was messing around with a couple of different methods and these red pips are the result.

Sombra will have a different red. I will have that up as soon as humanly possible.
Thanks everybody

[Don Boyer]

This deck is really amazing and if I can weigh in, don't worry about the costs yet. Make the best deck possible.
And since you are printing with Expert I can tell you that the extra color won't really cost you any more.
I probably shouldn't get a vote but #1 is my favorite and #2 seems perfect for Sombra.

Why wouldn't your vote count?  It's not like you don't know playing cards! 

[MavenP.C.C.]

 :DHi guys I wanted to go ahead and show you the tuck. I am still choosing font and making touch ups but this is the direction I am moving in.  I know how important it is for everyone and for that I am taking a little extra time to create it.

If you have suggestions or special requests for the tuck, email me and let me know.

Remember this is a project in the making.

I did not go out and print a bunch of decks to turn around and get reimbursed on Kickstarter.

The Duality tuck will be printed on Embossed, elegant green satin paper (the tone of green may not show up properly on certain computer screens). All of the lettering and patterns you see  will  not only be embossed but richly laid in gold foil. I wanted to keep the tuck elegant but simple. This of course is to continue with the theme of Duality.

Sombra on the other hand will be printed on matte black premium stock from the Expert Playing Card Company and laid with silver foil. This is to match the silver and black Sombra card back. Any comments and suggestions are welcome.

Also please please dont forget to support and pass this project around to friends. Duality is the ONLY deck on Kickstarter that was completely made and printed by hand. In fact the only digital work is in the tuck.

This has taken an incredible amount of personal time and expertise. Others claim to have handmade decks on Kickstarter, they may have some hand-drawn elements in the development but they are very far from being hand crafted decks of cards.

 In reality, coming from a proffessional artist who has studied art his entire life, I feel some other designers make deliberately mis-leading statements about their creation process and are not hand creating their work.

I have created Duality from a very honest place of my love for playing cards and art. It is a dream of mine to be able to make this a reality and I can only do it with everyones help. I do not have the resources to make Duality on my own, thats what Kickstarter is for. Kickstarter is for projects that are in process and to help complete your vision. It was not created to be used as a machine to sell your already completed project to the public, thats what a business website is for.

I know that my statements may not be popular but it needs to be said. I have had a ton of emails from backers and even some creators expressing the same sentiments. I just feel that the spirit of what Kickstarter is for, will be taken from new deck designers due to uneven barriers of entry into the market.

This disadvantage puts the young independent creator back where he was before Kickstarter, beneath the boot heels of a dug in institution. This is ultimately a disadvantage to the average collectors, cardists and magicians

In conclusion, I want to thank every single person  that has emailed me expressing their concerns and  for every single pledge that has enabled me just to get this far. We still have a  way to go though so lets make it happen. If you  want more unique decks that are TRULY handmade, I urge you to please please SHARE this project on your Facebook, Instagram, forums, anywhere.

Have a great night,-Mark

[HudsonDesign]

Its funny because I'm sitting here reading this.  Agreeing with some of it, but not all. 

But mostly I'm wondering as another person with a deck on kickstarter currently where someone with your opinion thinks my deck and myself falls in your conversation.  Considering what you consider is "art" and what is not is perhaps different to mine.  Which side of the fence.  As quite distinctly someone sent me a picture of an old broken radio for part of promoting my kickstarter campaign and it is one of the more beautiful things ive seen. A beautiful broken piece of art, waiting to be made into something else.

The part I agree with is the concept of using Kickstarter as a store to sell current products.  Queen games for example (love them, have HEAPS of their games, but a good example here) is kickstarting a Big Box version of one of their very very popular games.  Its already made, and sold truckloads.  But they are making this big box version.  And only selling it on kickstarter.  Once the kickstarter is over they wont make more or sell at retail. 

It is purely a clever sales pitch to sell copies of their already popular games.  Now 26 times.  This one in particular over 70000 for their 10000 goal.  12 days left.  Some of their kickstarters selling hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of games that have been selling for years.  Just in a big box with all the expansions, also already for sale.

They could easily make the cardboard box and sell these themselves.  But this sells a heap, instantly.  Its not using kickstarter as intended as you said. As a platform to create and share something new and wonderful.

[Don Boyer]

Kickstarter does have rules to protect people from what you might call unfair competition.  However, they seem to be less concerned these days with their own rules and procedures than they are with raking in those fat percentages of the funds raised.  Even projects that succeed but fail to deliver have already paid Kickstarter, so Kickstarter cares little about the problems that came after they got their cut.

This is really a huge discussion point that deserves a separate topic.  If you folks would like to continue this, please start a new topic for it in the Conversation Parlor (the issue extends beyond playing cards and covers countless other categories).

[MavenP.C.C.]

''But mostly I'm wondering as another person with a deck on kickstarter currently where someone with your opinion thinks my deck and myself falls in your conversation.  Considering what you consider is "art" and what is not is perhaps different to mine.  Which side of the fence.  As quite distinctly someone sent me a picture of an old broken radio for part of promoting my kickstarter campaign and it is one of the more beautiful things ive seen. A beautiful broken piece of art, waiting to be made into something else.''

I don't want you to think that I am saying one form of art is superior to the other. I don't normally approach things like that.
My point was that if a creator says their deck was hand made, it needs to be handmade. Its just a case of being honest about what was made and what it is.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with digital work.  Most of my favorite decks were made using excellent excellent examples of digital work. Its just that as a proffessional, I can see the difference and its rather insulting when I see claims that simpply are not true.

Simply put I spent many years of my life studying and expanding my knowledge base to be able to do what I do. I dont believe that anyone needs to like what I do, just to agree with that premise.  On the flip side no one would appreciate it if I claimed that mine was made with all of the latest technology, because it is simply not true.

Im not in any way talking about value, good art vs. bad art, fine art vs. graffitti. I was simply expressing some ideas that have been on my mind for a long time and apparently have also been on the mind of other collectors based on their personl emails.

I apologize if I offended you or stepped on anyones toes. That was not my intention in any way. BTW I actually have a small collection of old broken vintage radios from the 50s and I display those as art in my own home, Im a huge huge fan of found object art.

[MavenP.C.C.]

''This is really a huge discussion point that deserves a separate topic.  If you folks would like to continue this, please start a new topic for it in the Conversation Parlor (the issue extends beyond playing cards and covers countless other categories).

Agreed.

[HudsonDesign]

I'm not offended in any way. Just really intrested in different peoples points of view is all.  I work in hospitality so you can't really offend me.
Also sorry though to Maven.  Didn't mean to hijack your thread in any way.
Cheers Don sound like a good idea.  Could be a good discussion.

[MavenP.C.C.]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/336695519/duality-a-new-deck-of-cards-from-maven-playing-car

[MavenP.C.C.]

Heres the new tuck........

[MavenP.C.C.]

Heres the whole box. I will be adding the Ace of spades to the tuck box as well. Just wanted to give you guys a quick peek.

[MavenP.C.C.]

Ohhh and I also decided to go with the red card back. I felt it related more to my deck and was more classic. Check it out!!

[sprouts1115]

@Maven - Good choice. Then you can go blue then black, after that you can go any color in the rainbow just like little circles in the fan.  JUst a stOney observation.   

[MavenP.C.C.]

@Maven - Good choice. Then you can go blue then black, after that you can go any color in the rainbow just like little circles in the fan.  JUst a stOney observation.   

Thanks!

[sprouts1115]

@Maven - Art is art.  You have an art deck.  That's why I can't say much about your deck.  I'm willing to overlook your "1-way" back.  It's in the "close enough" category, but I'm tying to understand your Jokers.  Seems like one of them needs just a little red.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(playing_card)

[MavenP.C.C.]

Something like that would be relatively easy. Are you saying to have opposites colors red-black or to have the red connect across the diptych? Its a funny coincidence that you link the Joker wiki because,  the early sketches for this deck included the words `Highest Trump` with the seraphs and the Maven logo that I created. I would still be open to that if people were interested.

[Don Boyer]

Something like that would be relatively easy. Are you saying to have opposites colors red-black or to have the red connect across the diptych? Its a funny coincidence that you link the Joker wiki because,  the early sketches for this deck included the words `Highest Trump` with the seraphs and the Maven logo that I created. I would still be open to that if people were interested.

Varying colors between the jokers is an option but certainly not mandatory - go with what you feel looks best.

[MavenP.C.C.]

Here is another variation on the tuck. I have not decided which one I like best....