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Voting closed: June 15, 2013, 11:51:02 PM

My new line of CHRISTIAN decks

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My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« on: April 17, 2013, 03:52:09 PM »
 

xx789m

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Hellur. I LOOOOOOVE playing cards. But i looked around and all i could see was decks centered around death and demons and skeletons and such. That's fine and dandy if you like that kind of thing, but my faith is everything to me so skulls aren't my thing. I want to design a few decks and have them produced with christian imagery for those that would like such a thing. that means none of ths:  >:( or  :-[ or  :-\ or   :t11: and especially not  :mindf-ck:



Now my question to y'all is I'm doing a deck called the patriarch deck. Jacob's 12 sons, the 12 patriarchs of Israel. I thought i could make each facecard a different patriarch. 12 sons 12 face cards. sounds good right?? well what about the queens. WHAT DO I DO FOR THE QUEENS???????
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 04:43:29 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hellur. I LOOOOOOVE playing cards. But i looked around and all i could see was decks centered around death and demons and skeletons and such. That's fine and dandy if you like that kind of thing, but my faith is everything to me so skulls aren't my thing. I want to design a few decks and have them produced with christian imagery for those that would like such a thing. that means none of ths:  >:( or  :-[ or  :-\ or   :t11: and especially not  :mindf-ck:



Now my question to y'all is I'm doing a deck called the patriarch deck. Jacob's 12 sons, the 12 patriarchs of Israel. I thought i could make each facecard a different patriarch. 12 sons 12 face cards. sounds good right?? well what about the queens. WHAT DO I DO FOR THE QUEENS???????

Prior to the existence of queens in the Anglo-Rouen design (which we use now), the court cards were "Roi" (French for King), "Chevalier" (KNight - or literally, cavalier) and "Valet" (Page, knight's aide, etc.).  With the creation of the Queen (in French, "Dame"), we have the four court characters we see used in tarot decks - contrary to popular belief, the tarot deck was created AFTER the playing card deck, not before, and the French were using the tarot deck for a popular card game of the same name before it was being used for cartomancy.  In time, people decided they liked the Queen as part of the playing card deck's court, so the Chevalier and Valet were combined to create the "Jack" - the French still call it a "Valet", but in English, he's thought of as serving the duty of both the Valet and the Chevalier, hence the expression "Jack of all trades"...

There's nothing stopping you from either using males on the Queens or using the earlier French court values of King, Cavalier and Valet (or Page).  I'd advise against Knight - The "K" is already taken, and "Kn" isn't an elegant solution.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 04:51:50 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 05:14:08 PM »
 

xx789m

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WONDERFUL. So i could keep K as in king and J as in jack and switch queen for Chevalier?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 05:17:18 PM »
 

xela

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We had a biblical deck didn't we? Bicycle Genesis or something. The other Christian deck we had didn't work out because the creator was a scamming cook. I think there is room for this genre in decks. I'm not a religious person by any means, but you're right, the skulls/fire/demon shtick is old, and nothing new or innovative can come from that anymore.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 05:23:27 PM »
 

xx789m

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bicycle genesis is based on christian themes but i dont care much for turning the people into trees, and i wasn't aware of another christan deck. Just sad that someone would use that to scam. Just take a deck of cards n hit the streets. u can scam plenty of people
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 11:04:44 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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I don't know about Christian decks, but if you want decks with more of a biblical theme and a lighter, non-skull-death-emo-darkness-blargagah feel, the Guardians and ArchAngels are pretty good decks. They look awesome too.

http://www.bicyclecards.com/products/playing-card/archangels

http://www.bicyclecards.com/products/playing-card/bicycle-guardians

As for your deck Idea, I think it all boils down to how well you design it. Just because you smack a religious label on it doesn't mean it's going to be popular. This isn't directed at just you. Lots of the dark-themed decks flopped simply because they didn't do anything for design, and just whacked the "zombie" label on the pack.

Good luck!
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 11:10:39 PM »
 

xx789m

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i agree with what you're saying, and I understand, but I think the designs will be pretty good. I'm also going to try and include a few gaff cards on at least one of the decks. My friend who happens to be one of those kid millionaires has agreed to loan me the money so I don't have to deal with kickstarter
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2013, 11:17:35 PM »
 

John B.

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I don't know if there need to be "christian decks" just get decks that are not dark and full of demons, and zombies. I have a couple of dark decks, and even use them at my church. How they are perceived is based on how you present them.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 12:12:21 AM »
 

xx789m

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there doesn't "need" to be either. I just dont like the artwork on some of the decks because its against what I stand for, so I want to design a deck that goes for what I stand for in a way that its popular with everyone
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 12:59:27 AM »
 

John B.

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I just don't see the point in a christian. I am a follower of Jesus christ, and am serving the Lord in what I do, but because of the idea of this deck I probably would not support it.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 01:10:32 AM »
 

xx789m

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take a look at the deck first. besides, don't you agree that skulls and zombies are over done?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 01:22:23 AM »
 

John B.

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They are but its all based off what people want to see. If people want to see a deck full of blood, and demons and vacuums, and microwaves. Let them. I just don't see an idea of making a "christian deck" to counter them.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013, 02:56:39 AM »
 

xx789m

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Well perhaps I want to see a christian deck. And perhaps there are others who do as well. If I want to design a deck with an ironing board theme then I should do that. I don't Care much for The zombie themed decks. And I don't think I'd want my child playing with a deck that has human appendages all throughout it. Many people are Christian and I believe they'll like it. And those that aren't Christian but don't want the darker cards can go pick up a rider back or something else. This is what I want. I'm confident people will get behind it once they see the design. If you don't like it. Don't buy it. Like I said. There's NOTHING wrong with the karnival decks where there's a skeleton everywhere u look. IF YOU LIKE THAT SORT OF THING. I happen to not care much for it. My taste is much different than yours. I'm not asking you to buy the cards. Nor support them. I am asking u to leave me to my ideas if u don't agree with them.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013, 03:50:50 AM »
 

xela

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You should be warned that the Internet isn't the best place for Christian or religious imagery. Even active Christians on the web don't tend to be activist Christians.

That said, if you want to put in the time and money, it's on you man. We wish you nothing but success. We know the industry in and out here, so we want you be prepared for potential failures as much as you are aware of potential successes.  Keep us posted, man!
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 05:44:42 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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There are actually some corners of the Internet where such a deck would be very well-received.  There's a reason the "Left Behind" movies and books have sold as well as they have.

One suggestion I'd give would be to make the imagery organic to the design in some way.  Depending on your specific faith/sect, you might consider stained-glass style computer-generated or painted images of various Biblical characters - you already have 12 courts for the Apostles.  Just don't go the lazy route, slap stock images on the card faces and say "Done, now come buy it!"  They won't come.  Faith can be blind, but artistic tastes generally aren't.

Nearly any theme done as a deck can be a success, but it has to be gorgeous and close to perfect.  There are zombie decks and skull decks I love, others that I loathe, and it boils down to how appealing to me the artwork and design is.

If you want my assistance, I've done consulting work before for people starting out in playing card design.  Just check my signature.  It can be anything from a simple telephone conversation to going over the design itself or (for those who can't self-fund) launching a Kickstarter campaign.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 05:45:00 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2013, 08:28:50 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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I agree with Don on the artistic imagery of religious icons, people visit middle age cathedrals and wonder at the art with little regard for the religious significance.  Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the religous deck but if you really want to get a reach to a larger and not necessarily Christian based audience, go the 'awe of wonder and magnificence' route.  Now what I would like to see is a faith based Tarot deck, try explaining that to the kids.  ::)
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2013, 10:05:16 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I agree with Don on the artistic imagery of religious icons, people visit middle age cathedrals and wonder at the art with little regard for the religious significance.  Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the religous deck but if you really want to get a reach to a larger and not necessarily Christian based audience, go the 'awe of wonder and magnificence' route.  Now what I would like to see is a faith based Tarot deck, try explaining that to the kids.  ::)

Actually, I was thinking similarly but different.

There's absolutely zero need to reach an audience larger than the Christian community.  His target audience, bluntly, are believers in Christ.  He may get a few people of other (or no) faith, but that's his target.  Let that concept settle and there's a lot of things he can do with it.

A faith-based tarot deck is easier than you may realize.  The tarot deck originally wasn't used for cartomancy, but for a game by the same name that's still played today in France and some other parts of Europe.  The cards don't look like a traditional tarot deck's cards, but there's the exact same number of cards, right down to the suits and "trumps" (you'd think of them as the Major Arcana).  The suits are the Anglo-Rouen hearts, clubs, spades and diamonds we all know, there's a separate Page and Knight card, rather than the modern convention of combining them into the Jack, and the trumps are only numbered with Roman numerals rather than named.  Each one shows a particular event taking place in the countryside and a similar such event taking place in a town or small city.

The only restriction he'd have with making a tarot deck at all is that fewer publishers will make tarot decks - and USPC is not one of them.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2013, 01:07:10 PM »
 

xx789m

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I doubt I'll be making a tarot deck. I don't have the time or resources to explain all that to people. my audience would NOT recieve it well. they'd be like "YOU CAN'T MAKE A CHRISTIAN DECK OF CARDS THEN MAKE TAROT CARDS YOU HYPOCRITE!!!!!"

and if it was a christian tarot deck they'd rip my head off with accusations of "blasphemy" because they would have no idea about what don just said
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2013, 01:53:40 PM »
 

xela

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Man... Tarot cards... It amazes me that there are some people in the world that believe in fortune tellers.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2013, 02:59:41 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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Man... Tarot cards... It amazes me that there are some people in the world that believe in fortune tellers.

I know, everyone knows the answers are really in the alignment of stars which burned out billions of light years ago. ;)

And Don you are the consultant and playing card product placement is your bag, so if you say there's a market, then there's a market.  I will take an agnostic approach to your assertion and like doubting Thomas, seeing is believing.  ;)

Also is this a "Christian" deck, is it based on the Apostles?  I thought it was based on the 12 tribes of Judah.  I could be wrong, I can't see the feed at the moment.

Either way, I'm in.  If for nothing else, it'd make a great conversation starter at my weekly Amish and Menonite poker game.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2013, 03:16:08 PM »
 

xx789m

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I hope to make both a deck based on the apostles and one based on the 12 tribes of israel. for the back design of the patriarchs deck (thats what the founders of the tribes were called, the patriarchs of israel) I'd like to take a riderback and do it in reds and yellows and purples and greens and such, like that one from the phillipines (theres a link to a pic of it) but less fading and the colors would stand out more and blend together less. It would be like Joseph's coat of many colors. I'll post a pic once its done, but my designer is in the hospital at the moment




 http://www.google.com.mx/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=x5obkaP3EKxuUM&tbnid=iZzq6fwI08NNvM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fall_comments%3Fv%3DNWQJAXP90E4&ei=30VwUf2CMsqp2gWo2YCgBw&bvm=bv.45373924,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNFHXspU5ve_9OGkYRVp8HDNQHudZA&ust=1366398808952375
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2013, 12:19:35 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I doubt I'll be making a tarot deck. I don't have the time or resources to explain all that to people. my audience would NOT recieve it well. they'd be like "YOU CAN'T MAKE A CHRISTIAN DECK OF CARDS THEN MAKE TAROT CARDS YOU HYPOCRITE!!!!!"

and if it was a christian tarot deck they'd rip my head off with accusations of "blasphemy" because they would have no idea about what don just said

The type of tarot deck I mentioned bears little to no artistic and design resemblance to the tarot deck used for cartomancy.  If you didn't call it a tarot deck, they'd never know.  You could invent a Christian-themed trick-taking game, and the deck's extra cards could be reduced in order to play more traditional card games - it's two decks in one!  But it would be harder and more complicated to make, that's for certain, unless you went with a publisher that has European operations or that publishes tarot decks extensively.  In the US, US Games Systems would be the only company that fits the bill.  In Europe, there's a number of companies that could do the job.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2013, 01:02:29 AM »
 

xx789m

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I honestly have NO idea what the type of tarot deck you are referring to is. I guess the meaning of tarot cards have been implanted in me for so long I reality can't accept it.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2013, 01:13:51 AM »
 

xx789m

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I believe that this will be one of the joker cards. Or at least based on this. One will be like this. One will be the opposite meaning a demonic scary version. Making for great visual shapeshifter changes. Make it into a routine n give it an ironic name like......"to hell and back" or something
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 10:05:14 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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I like the Archangel Joker - I'm assuming Michael.  For the other joker were you thinking of a fallen angel?
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2013, 03:18:39 PM »
 

xx789m

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Yes I was. And yeah the archangel joker is nice.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 07:18:02 PM »
 

xx789m

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I need a back design for my "spiritual warfare" deck. WHAT WOULD Y'ALL LIKE TO SEE?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 10:41:27 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I need a back design for my "spiritual warfare" deck. WHAT WOULD Y'ALL LIKE TO SEE?

I think a better question would be "What do you have to show us?"  :))
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2013, 01:13:20 PM »
 

xx789m

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Nothing yet. my designer quit and ripped up ALL the designs :,(
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2013, 01:37:19 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Nothing yet. my designer quit and ripped up ALL the designs :,(

What on Earth happened between you two?

You need to hire a new designer, not go fishing here for suggestions from the peanut gallery.  This forum is good for gaining input on your own designs, but you're basically asking us to "make" your deck for you!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 01:39:34 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2013, 01:55:27 PM »
 

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xx789m,

Its really unfortunate that you had a fallout with your designer, I had a similar problem 3 months into the deck design and I had to change the whole direction of the project. In the end I ended up choosing a much better designer. It's hard when you had already made an advance payment to the previous designer but o well, sunk cost, take it as a learning experience.

I would suggest that you contact people through Deviantart, see who has what to offer and choose someone with the style of art you want for your project, then get a quote, and an estimated time for delivery.

Also, you might want to browse through these designer forums:

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com

Best advise is to contact a designer, and talk to him over the phone, explain your project and get a vibe for his attitude, if he gets really excited about the project and starts giving you ideas over the phone he might be the guy for your deck. Find a designer who is as passionate about your theme as you are and you will be golden.

Best of luck in your endeavors and best regards,
Martin S.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2013, 02:18:35 PM »
 

xx789m

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Thank you. I will look. Something tells me that by the time I'm done I won't have any profit left....

And it was just a personal affair that blew up into a large misunderstanding.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2013, 02:42:53 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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I have hired numerous illustrators through www.guru.com which is a place where freelancers peddle their skill.  You create a project and a budget and people bid for the work.  You can review their portfolios, websites and see feedback from jobs they've already completed.  The only cost you incur is what you agree to pay the artist, Guru takes a percentage from them.  When you set up the project, create a payment plan based on deliverables.  I do 4 payments:  Sketch, Revision, Line Art and Color.  You can split that up too if you are doing a bunch of images and if the timeline might be long.  Some guys on there are A listers and command a huge salary, but other guys are trying to pad their portfolios and are excellent artists willing to work cheap.  Make sure you include in your agreement that you own the art when the project is done.   8)
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2013, 02:48:13 PM »
 

xx789m

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I'm broke. I can't really afford to hire anyone at the moment.

Plus I am 13. Even if I had money my age complicates things A LOT.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 11:27:14 PM by Don Boyer »
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2013, 06:04:18 PM »
 

Lucky Card Company

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Plus I am 13. Even if I had money my age complicates things A LOT.

Darn we should have started on that note, look xx789m, I'm not saying its impossible, but I think a project like this is a lot of responsibility specially at your age. I mean what happens if you make the goal but cant meet your obligations. Plus I'm sure many people would feel uncomfortable with thousands of dollars being handled by a young person.

Too many things you have to consider, even grownups have launched all kinds of projects (programming, clothing, cards, music, etc...), they failed to prepare properly and screwed up incredibly. You would need a lot of guidance and probably an adult to sign off on everything you need to do.

If you can manage to get designs you can post them here for feedback, then I'm sure a lot of people will be likely to coach you and guide you through the process. Maybe a company will sponsor your deck and take care of launching it if the design is attractive enough.

Anyways just consider your options and the responsibilities they carry.

Best Regards,
Martin S.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2013, 07:34:48 PM »
 

xx789m

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I had a friend that would fund and a friend that would design and I planned on paying them back under the table with my profits. I was told I should use kickstarter instead of self funding so i could get my product out there, but I was looking at it and
1. I'm underage, but I was told that could be worked around
2. I moved from east Texas in febuary to Mexico and only reside in the USA during the summer and Christmas. Isn't a permanet US adress required?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2013, 07:50:27 PM »
 

John B.

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if your really interested I would say this is your best bet. http://houseofplayingcards.com/submit/
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2013, 08:46:57 PM »
 

xx789m

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I'll check it out, thanks
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2013, 11:42:49 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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if your really interested I would say this is your best bet. http://houseofplayingcards.com/submit/

That's not going to work unless two things happen:

1) he presents a FINISHED design, and
2) Alex and Kevin like the design enough to print it.

They've become more selective than they were at the outset of HOPC, because people were sending them some really ridiculous, unfinished concepts and holding out their hands expecting to get published and paid.  Now, unless you've got completed, printable graphics files of the whole works, you're guaranteed to be passed over - and even then, you could create the Mona Lisa of playing card designs, and if either of them (or both) really don't like it, you won't be offered a contract.

And it was just a personal affair that blew up into a large misunderstanding.

Not that I haven't been giving you enough advice here, xx789m (and I love how that screen name just rolls off the tongue; it's like buttah), but do NOT get personally involved when it comes to business.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2013, 09:28:34 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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I hate to say it but you are going to have a harder time than most of us pulling this off.  Most of us have sources of income to pay for our hobbies/business ideas.  That doesn't mean that an idea from a 13yo isn't good and doesn't merit development, but you will be hard pressed to get anyone to support you because of your age. 

Now, there are plenty of 13yo people who make it "Big".  They do so by socializing.  Coming here is a good start. 

1.  Find another artist, not even a good one who doesn't mind building his portfolio to help create 'concept art'
2.  Define carefully and cohesively the look and feel of the deck.  If you are using standard Pips you can do the numbered cards yourself.
3.  The back of your card is as important as the front, so think clearly about what is striking and tells us what the deck is all about (without actually saying it)
4.  Once you have your 'concept art' in a presentable form, socialize it on FB.  Join all kinds of religious based pages to gain a larger following.  Shamelessly self promote the deck you'd like to make, and put it out there that you are seeking a 'finished artist' who'd be willing to work on the project with you.  As it is a Christian community you will likely find someone who is more about the message than the money that will help. 
5.  Get some final artwork together and publish it to your newly socialized FB groups and tell them you are seeking funds through a kickstarter project (or indiegogo) that you plan to launch soon. 
6.  If your parents are not willing to be your adult sponsor for Kickstarter, perhaps your artist will be willing to partner with you

There are far more details that go into doing this, and like I said at your age it is going to be very difficult.  But I'll leave you with this, at the age of 13 young William H. Gates III got his first 'computer' and became interested in programming.  Look at Bill Gates today!

P.S.  I realize that this has become even harder as you are not allowed by FB to have a presence until the age of 16.
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2013, 01:48:43 PM »
 

xx789m

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And it was just a personal affair that blew up into a large misunderstanding.

Not that I haven't been giving you enough advice here, xx789m (and I love how that screen name just rolls off the tongue; it's like buttah), but do NOT get personally involved when it comes to business.



She was a personal friend before I asked her to help with this.

I hate to say it but you are going to have a harder time than most of us pulling this off.  Most of us have sources of income to pay for our hobbies/business ideas.  That doesn't mean that an idea from a 13yo isn't good and doesn't merit development, but you will be hard pressed to get anyone to support you because of your age. 

Now, there are plenty of 13yo people who make it "Big".  They do so by socializing.  Coming here is a good start. 

1.  Find another artist, not even a good one who doesn't mind building his portfolio to help create 'concept art'
2.  Define carefully and cohesively the look and feel of the deck.  If you are using standard Pips you can do the numbered cards yourself.
3.  The back of your card is as important as the front, so think clearly about what is striking and tells us what the deck is all about (without actually saying it)
4.  Once you have your 'concept art' in a presentable form, socialize it on FB.  Join all kinds of religious based pages to gain a larger following.  Shamelessly self promote the deck you'd like to make, and put it out there that you are seeking a 'finished artist' who'd be willing to work on the project with you.  As it is a Christian community you will likely find someone who is more about the message than the money that will help. 
5.  Get some final artwork together and publish it to your newly socialized FB groups and tell them you are seeking funds through a kickstarter project (or indiegogo) that you plan to launch soon. 
6.  If your parents are not willing to be your adult sponsor for Kickstarter, perhaps your artist will be willing to partner with you

There are far more details that go into doing this, and like I said at your age it is going to be very difficult.  But I'll leave you with this, at the age of 13 young William H. Gates III got his first 'computer' and became interested in programming.  Look at Bill Gates today!

P.S.  I realize that this has become even harder as you are not allowed by FB to have a presence until the age of 16.









I'll look around for a new artist.............would either of you happen to know where I can find one that might be interested?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 01:26:03 AM by Don Boyer »
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2013, 01:54:47 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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Unfortuantely the crowd I run with all expect payment.  But you have access to a school full of people at or about your age who don't have the same expectations
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2013, 02:56:36 PM »
 

xx789m

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Would now be a good time to mention I'm homeschooled?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2013, 03:02:37 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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My children are homeschooled, but they participate in socialization activities with other kids their ages.  I'm sure you must get out.  Have you reached out to your youth group at church, put a flyer up at your local church?  I know you're in Mexico now so i'm sure if there is a language issue.  I'd be careful about putting it out there too much especially where adults are concerned as someone may like your idea and since you are a kid take it for themselves.
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2013, 03:05:18 PM »
 

xx789m

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I am very involved in church but there is a LARGE language issue. And nobody down here really has time.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2013, 01:37:12 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'll look around for a new artist.............would either of you happen to know where I can find one that might be interested?

First - in case you haven't noticed it before, I've be combining your double-posts and deleting the extra. Instead of posting twice consecutively in a short time when no one has replied in-between, simply edit the previous post to add the new material.  There's is a Modify link in the toolbar at the top-right of your posts, and on the right between your post and your signature there's an icon that will allow for "quick edits" in the post without changing screens (works fine as long as you're not adding attachments).

Finding a new artist...  Well, I'm told you can't swing a dead cat on DeviantArt without hitting one...  :))  Some will be full-blown pros wanting money up-front while others will be young and hungry like yourself, willing to work with you for a share of the end result.  The entire site is like the world's largest amateur and semi-pro art gallery; no shortage of examples of people's work.

Be honest and up front about your age, but be the professional's professional and you'll stand a better chance of finding someone interested in working with you.  That doesn't mean acting like you know it all - it means if you don't know something, you'll find it out fast and move forward, always making progress.  Know-it-alls, even when they're right, tend to set off people's bullsh** detectors.  Being one of them, I should know! :))
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 01:37:31 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2013, 01:59:46 AM »
 

xx789m

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I'll look into it. My previous designer and I resumed our friendship but I'm taking her off the project just so I don't have to start from scratch every time she gets upset.




I'm on deviantART and its confusing me to death.....where in the world is my message center on there?????










Ok I've been sending out adds and requests and such all over deviantART. Do you know how many people have agreed to help?
the wonderful number of 0000.000000010000





by the way....how's this don?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 11:47:15 PM by xx789m »
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2013, 11:53:42 PM »
 

xx789m

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Does anybody know of an artist?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2013, 01:41:06 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Does anybody know of an artist?

Have you tried looking around Christian social sites to see what you can find?

BTW: I wouldn't recommend that poll you started.  There's a number of factors that can affect the success or failure or your deck projects.  We haven't seen a single piece of art, and you're asking us to determine whether we think you'll succeed or not - you might as well read tea leaves and tossed chicken bones...

If you carefully managed the scale of your project and deliver it to the target audience, you stand as much chance as any other deck does - perhaps more, since your decks are targeted more toward people who DON'T collect decks per se, but towards people who share at least some of your religious background and values, or are at least interested in them in some way.

Constantly repeating a "casting call" here over and over is just going to run you in circles.  Broaden your search area beyond the card boards.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2013, 02:00:08 AM »
 

xx789m

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I'm not looking on the card boards. I'm looking at the art and contacting the ones I like.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2013, 02:07:05 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm not looking on the card boards. I'm looking at the art and contacting the ones I like.

OK, but read this - you should recognize it.

Does anybody know of an artist?

This is recruiting, even if it's "friend-of-a-friend" recruiting...  We're very aware, those who are reading this topic, that you're seeking an artist.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2013, 08:39:05 AM »
 

xx789m

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This is recruiting, even if it's "friend-of-a-friend" recruiting...  We're very aware, those who are reading this topic, that you're seeking an artist.
[/quote]



If this is recruiting I'm doing an awful job because the number of responses I'm getting is still 0. I'm telling people what I need the art. I'm telling them why I need their art. I'm telling them that I can't pay up front but I can give them a piece of the end deal. I even tell them that I want to see THEIR interpretation. (I want a pretty traditional style but who knows. I'm open for input. I figure ill either find something I like better. Or I'll find an artist that matches my taste without even asking him).
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2013, 01:27:41 PM »
 

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I understand what you're going through, as I'm looking for an artist myself and finding the project more expensive than I initially realized it would be.  But from the artist's point of view, designing a deck is  a huge investment of their time and energy.  If they're doing this for a living already, they usually require more security than the promise of profits at some future date because they have bills to pay now.  If they're still in school or otherwise being supported, you might have a better chance, but supposed they do all this work for you and you can't find someone to kick start the Kickstarter?  Or suppose you promise them a percentage of the Kickstarter proceeds and it fails?  Perhaps you had better get a plan together first (secure an adult to sponsor the Kickstarter, make a long long list detailing how and where you're going to promote it, etc.) and then they'll take you more seriously.  I understand that desire to GET STARTED NOW, but sometimes it's better to take a step back and prepare your attack first.  Good luck!  I'm going to send you a PM with further suggestions, ok?
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2013, 02:28:34 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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Soliloquy's right. I also want to add that if I was an artist/designer who received your e-mail, my first thoughts after seeing that you were 13 and live in Mexico would be "what would your role be exactly!" Assuming the contacted artist/designer would be over 18 and live in the U.S. they would need to run the Kickstarter project and deal with the money. Even if you offered to send out all of the packages to pledgees, the extra money to ship the pallet to Mexico and ship a lot of orders from Mexico to the U.S. would cut into both of your profits so much it wouldn't be worth it!

Another thing the contacted artists/designers may be thinking is "why spend so much work on someone else's idea with no guarantee of payment?!" Your e-mails may be inspiring them to create their own designs on a theme that interests them. Personally, I only work on card stuff for 2-3 hours a night after my wife goes to bed at 10:00. The day is reserved for the job that pays the bills and supports the family! If TBC needs a quick revision or a little production art help during the day, I can usually squeeze it in. If any larger card work comes up during the day, it is always pushed off to night work. Creating a custom Deck is a ton of work. Nobody wants to put in that much time on a client's idea without some kind of guaranteed compensation.

The reward of ""you will be paid if it is successful on KS" is just a new version of "I can't pay you but it will be great Portfolio work!". The Portfolio work carrot has been around forever and NO artist/designer should fall for it more than once. It's not fair to the artist and is really taking advantage of them and their skills.

My suggestion would be to wait until you have some money saved up for a guaranteed signing bonus to go with the shared profits, OR work at it until you have the tools and skills to create the Deck yourself.

Thanks, Randy
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2013, 08:34:50 PM »
 

xx789m

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I can get $500-$700 by the end of July is that enough?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2013, 08:10:21 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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I can get $500-$700 by the end of July is that enough?

First, how many images do you need?  16 for the court and aces, 17 if you count the back, 18 if you want custom pips (pips are easy so I just tell them to make one image with the 4 pips), 19 if you want a tuck box (which should count for 2 so let's say an even 20)  For 20 images you are offering to pay a professional artist $25 an image.  There are plenty of artists in India, Malasia and other hi-tech low income nations that would jump at $25 an image.  I'd be very careful though, some of them have no scruples. 

Going back to my previous advice, if you have let's just say up to $500 to spend to get the artwork done.  Go to www.guru.com and create a project.  Tell people that you want to create images for a playing card deck.  That you will need up to 20, full color images delivered in .psd CYMK and in .jpg format.  The images will need to be larger than the playing cards themselves, they should be about the size of a normal piece of paper and 300dpi.  Provide sample art like the one you shared to weed out the ones whose talent doesn't match.  Then post it and let people bid for your work.  You can see their responses, email them, discuss details....  Then you can pick an artist to work with for the money you offered.  Set up a payment installment plan based on them deliverying  the artwork.  Your challenge will be how to get the money to them.  You need to be able to pay through paypal or a bank account.  You may need your parents help.

Make sure you follow the basic rules when working with a contract artist (guru has contract templates)

1.  All work must be original
2.  You own the work done (copywritten by you)
3.  Provide the artist with a written detailed description of what you expect (King of Clubs = Ben, Older Hebrew man in blue and gold striped robe and conical hat, shephard cane, standing in a flock of sheep, ...)
4.  First deliverable should be the sketch work, typically in pencil to make sure his artistic ideas and yours match
5.  Ink work is the next progressive step, this allows you to see the bold and lighter outlines, normally the sketches look better than the ink, but the artist can make up for it with color
6.  Finally, color should be consistent for all the artwork to create continuity.  Remember, both you and the artist are trying to express yourselves, so allow the artist some leeway.

Like I said, I normally hire artists to illustrate books, but the process is the same.  The only sticky point here is how you can make the payments.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 08:11:42 AM by ManMadeGames »
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2013, 11:19:43 AM »
 

xx789m

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$25 for 20 images? thats.......................well $500............that could work out.........but still I'm not too hot on sending money to some guy in indonesia! Maybe I'll adress it to like a little known charity and tell my mom I'm giving to the poor
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2013, 11:56:35 AM »
 

RandyButterfield

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You guys are crazy! If you can get an Artist/Designer to create a fully custom Deck for just $500 then bravo to you. But, don't expect the final designs to be able to standup against mid to upper tier Kickstarter Decks or even get close to T11, Ellusionist, TBC, HOPC or D&D quality!

thanks, Randy

 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2013, 12:36:49 PM »
 

xx789m

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well this seems to be my best chance so far. Do you have any ideas?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2013, 01:35:26 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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well this seems to be my best chance so far. Do you have any ideas?

Well, since you are 13 years old - too young to run a KS project and in living in a country that's not allowed to have a KS project, I would suggest have fun being a teenager! Why do you want to commission a Deck so badly? Work is stressful. Creating a product with the hope to sell it to a mass of people is even more stressful. Why put yourself through it at such a young age? There will be plenty of work waiting for you when you have responsibilities, bills to pay and mouthes to feed!

If you're still adamant on going through with it, I would think offering up $500 (half deposit, half after art is finished) PLUS part of the profits would draw in someone with quality skills. I would offer a higher percentage if the Artist/Designer has to run the KS project and handle all of the shipping to pledgees. Of course, if they have to handle all of that because of your age and location, I reassert my "why do they need you" argument.

thanks, Randy
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2013, 01:43:34 PM »
 

Soliloquy

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xx789m,  to give you an example or scare you straight, one quote I received was $900 per card

Don't you think it a little odd that you're willing to lie to your parents about what you're doing with all that money in order to get a Christian deck made?
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2013, 02:29:01 PM »
 

xx789m

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I think you have something there. Thank you. And this is kind of what I want to do....
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2013, 03:00:04 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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You guys are crazy! If you can get an Artist/Designer to create a fully custom Deck for just $500 then bravo to you. But, don't expect the final designs to be able to standup against mid to upper tier Kickstarter Decks or even get close to T11, Ellusionist, TBC, HOPC or D&D quality!

thanks, Randy

Funny, I get the same response from a lot of the artists who I submit RFPs to, and the funny thing is that some of them aren't even worth $10 an image.  The quality of the art is not in question, it's the taste and design of the person commissioning the art.  But I have seen extremely talented artists with great portfolios (mostly foreign) willing to do the work for $25 or less per image.  Let's face it, especially talented artists are not making playing cards, they are being commissioned for larger projects that pay substantially more.  Don't assume card illustration is such a niche market that only a select few are talented enough to design and produce decks.

For example, a deck I love right now is the Mustache Deck.  It's got great colors and feel to it.  Is it extremely talented artwork?  Not at all, it's basic.  But it's also simplistic and the symmetry is spot on making it a nice deck.  That is my own opinion.  Others hate that the suits are colored.  Others don't like that the court is the same except for the mustachios.  There are a lot of decks put out by T11, Ellusionist, TBC, HOPC or D&D that I don't find terribly appealing.  However, they all appeal to a specific market with a specific expectation of design. 

As far as this project goes xx789m, the chances of you getting this off the ground are pretty slim.  If your parents don't support it, it's even slimmer.  If my 13 year old came to me and told me they wanted to create a deck, I'd encourage them but make them do all the ground work first, as many of us have explained to you.  I'm not sure there is much more advice I can offer.  It is great that you are driven to do it and you've shown obvious persistence.  I suggest you channel that into learning to speak Spanish fluently and combing through your local community for an artist.  They don't have to draw in Photo Shop, free hand work can easily be translanted later into computer images. 

Good luck.

FYI - here is the skill of work that my current illustrator gives me... for $25 an image.  Tell me he can't compete!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 03:10:50 PM by ManMadeGames »
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2013, 03:02:26 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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xx789m,  to give you an example or scare you straight, one quote I received was $900 per card

Don't you think it a little odd that you're willing to lie to your parents about what you're doing with all that money in order to get a Christian deck made?

I received a quote from the guy who drew Jabber Jaw, $9,000 an image!  I got his assistant to do it for $50. 
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #64 on: April 29, 2013, 03:10:04 PM »
 

xx789m

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I can make about $500 on my own but i can get up to $900,000 from my friend. If I were to use the loan to pay the artist and have the decks printed through money on Kickstarter, then I gave my friend back the money left over, do you think I could scrape up enough profit to pay him back the difference?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #65 on: April 29, 2013, 03:19:58 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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For example, a deck I love right now is the Mustache Deck.  It's got great colors and feel to it.  Is it extremely talented artwork?  Not at all, it's basic.  But it's also simplistic and the symmetry is spot on making it a nice deck.  That is my own opinion.  Others hate that the suits are colored.  Others don't like that the court is the same except for the mustachios.  There are a lot of decks put out by T11, Ellusionist, TBC, HOPC or D&D that I don't find terribly appealing.  However, they all appeal to a specific market with a specific expectation of design. 


That brings up the reason I kept making sure to add /Designer whenever I mentioned hiring an Artist/Designer. Sure the Mustache Deck utilizes simple illustrations, but the Design is very well done. A good Design is almost as important, if not more important, than having pretty illustrations in a Deck design. The big difference between Illustrated Decks and Designed Decks is most Decks released by the above companies would be categorized as a Designed Deck. A lot of Decks on Kickstarter and most Deck designs found on DeviantArt would be more in the Illustrated Deck category. HOPC is a good example of a place with both types of Decks or hybrids of the two. That's just my opinion though!

The $25 images you attached are very nice. That particular artist is selling themselves very short! They should be charging much more than that.

thanks, Randy

 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #66 on: April 29, 2013, 03:20:51 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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There's an old adage about a cart and a horse.  Read up on that.  The philosphy of 'build it and they will come' doesn't necessarily work.  But all that aside, this is more of a logistics issue:

1.  Who will create the Kickstarter account for you?
2.  Who will manage the banking/paypal/amazon items for you?
3.  Who will handle the contract with the manufacturer? 

As a minor these are all things you cannot do yourself.  Get these questions answered first.  Then get a solid design concept and some sketches done.  Contract with an artist just for the sketches and then ask what people think.  Because I have access to a great wealth of money doesn't mean I'm a good steward if I don't think through and detail everything prior to spending and before knowing if there is even a profit to be had.

This isn't just about making playing cards, it's a business.  Read a few business books to help you understand marketing, finance, the laws of supply and demand.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #67 on: April 29, 2013, 03:24:21 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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The $25 images you attached are very nice. That particular artist is selling themselves very short! They should be charging much more than that.

thanks, Randy

Well put about design Randy, exactly.  The art and design together is a challenge.  The new Pirate deck that just started has great art but not a great design.  (Again, in my own opinion).

He should be and I tell him that all the time, until then it's what he asks.  Sorry, I'm keeping this horse in the stable so don't ask. ;)
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #68 on: April 29, 2013, 03:42:46 PM »
 

xx789m

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Wow...............a guy just sent me a friend request on facebook.........but this guy is a 16 year old kid thats just produced his own custom deck and has agreed to walk me through the design process.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #69 on: April 29, 2013, 03:52:42 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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Wow...............a guy just sent me a friend request on facebook.........but this guy is a 16 year old kid thats just produced his own custom deck and has agreed to walk me through the design process.

There you go.  Make sure he's on the level, can't trust people on the internet. :mindf-ck:
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #70 on: April 29, 2013, 05:10:30 PM »
 

John B.

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Do you mind giving us his name and his deck? I am sure it would have been hit through here.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2013, 07:07:11 PM »
 

xx789m

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suprymis playing cards
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 07:08:19 PM by xx789m »
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #72 on: April 29, 2013, 07:24:10 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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suprymis playing cards

Website hosting the deck?  I can't find it anywhere. 
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #73 on: April 29, 2013, 07:28:01 PM »
 

John B.

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http://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?t=1650&p=19104

this is all I could find. He says he is from russia. He would have the same problems you would when it comes to kickstater.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2013, 07:30:41 PM »
 

xx789m

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« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 07:33:32 PM by xx789m »
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2013, 07:35:36 PM »
 

John B.

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there is like no info on these decks. and its based in russia. Personally I would not get involved.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2013, 03:03:17 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Guys, the topic's getting way off-topic here - If you have more comments about the Suprymis deck, please post them in the topic about that deck.  Thanks.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #77 on: May 05, 2013, 12:24:00 AM »
 

xx789m

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I should have the decks individually numbered, then find the biggest christian that backs it and send him number 666 just as a joke.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #78 on: May 06, 2013, 01:30:49 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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I should have the decks individually numbered, then find the biggest christian that backs it and send him number 666 just as a joke.

Focus on making the deck first.  Jokes later.  And numbering decks is a pain beyond a handful that are intended for personalizing.
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2013, 11:43:57 PM »
 

xx789m

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This is the first draft. It's far from complete but this is just a base.................I got to do something about those pitchforks  >:(
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2013, 12:14:11 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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This is the first draft. It's far from complete but this is just a base.................I got to do something about those pitchforks  >:(

What, exactly must be done about them?  I think they're fine.  Perhaps toss in a little more "demonic" elements to balance the design a bit - it's heavy on the heavenly, light on the wicked.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2013, 11:38:15 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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This is the first draft. It's far from complete but this is just a base.................I got to do something about those pitchforks  >:(

What, exactly must be done about them?  I think they're fine.  Perhaps toss in a little more "demonic" elements to balance the design a bit - it's heavy on the heavenly, light on the wicked.

Not sure I agree.  It seems like a purgatory deck.  I thought this was supposed to be about heroes of the bible.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2013, 04:17:09 PM »
 

xx789m

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This is the first draft. It's far from complete but this is just a base.................I got to do something about those pitchforks  >:(

What, exactly must be done about them?  I think they're fine.  Perhaps toss in a little more "demonic" elements to balance the design a bit - it's heavy on the heavenly, light on the wicked.

Not sure I agree.  It seems like a purgatory deck.  I thought this was supposed to be about heroes of the bible.
This is a deck based on angels vs. demons or heaven vs. hell.................sort of like the archangel deck, but I feel like the theme of that deck was lost in the intricate design.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2013, 11:49:16 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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This is the first draft. It's far from complete but this is just a base.................I got to do something about those pitchforks  >:(

What, exactly must be done about them?  I think they're fine.  Perhaps toss in a little more "demonic" elements to balance the design a bit - it's heavy on the heavenly, light on the wicked.

Not sure I agree.  It seems like a purgatory deck.  I thought this was supposed to be about heroes of the bible.
This is a deck based on angels vs. demons or heaven vs. hell.................sort of like the archangel deck, but I feel like the theme of that deck was lost in the intricate design.

Perhaps you should base it on the 7 deadly sins.  The battle of angels and demons is a little overdone for a thousand or more years.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2013, 05:18:53 PM »
 

xx789m

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thats a possibility
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #85 on: May 13, 2013, 06:32:51 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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This is the first draft. It's far from complete but this is just a base.................I got to do something about those pitchforks  >:(

What, exactly must be done about them?  I think they're fine.  Perhaps toss in a little more "demonic" elements to balance the design a bit - it's heavy on the heavenly, light on the wicked.

Not sure I agree.  It seems like a purgatory deck.  I thought this was supposed to be about heroes of the bible.
This is a deck based on angels vs. demons or heaven vs. hell.................sort of like the archangel deck, but I feel like the theme of that deck was lost in the intricate design.

Perhaps you should base it on the 7 deadly sins.  The battle of angels and demons is a little overdone for a thousand or more years.

You say that like the seven deadly sins are a new concept or something!  They're nearly as old as Christianity itself.  In fact, there's very little about Christian themes and ideas that's new under the sun.

Working with duality in a deck of cards is much easier than working with seven deadly sins.  There's duality in a deck of cards already with red and black suits, while you'd be hard pressed to successfully divide a deck into seven of anything with ease.  Only way I can think of to do that would be to create four jokers, giving you fifty-six cards, allowing you to have eight cards per sin.  The simple, logical way to divide that up would be two values in all four suits per sin - for example,  all the 2s and 3s could be Pride, all the 4s and 5s could be Sloth, etc.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #86 on: May 13, 2013, 08:02:10 AM »
 

John B.

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I feel if you go towards the 7 deadly sins you will lose a lot of your potential christian market. keep it more cheery and you have families who would buy a deck to support you. 7 deadly would not get you that. Would you want your child playing with a deck that talks about the 7 deadly sins?
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #87 on: May 13, 2013, 11:05:27 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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I feel if you go towards the 7 deadly sins you will lose a lot of your potential christian market. keep it more cheery and you have families who would buy a deck to support you. 7 deadly would not get you that. Would you want your child playing with a deck that talks about the 7 deadly sins?

I don't know that I want my child playing with an angels and demons deck.  But to Don's point, it would be easier to separate out the good and bad forces (duality).  it just seems that this deck concept started as a 'Heroes of the Bible' and has now gone to 'Angels and Demons'.  If your target is a Christian market, would a deck about battling mythical creatures (and yes I said it) be more popular than fundamental biblical characters?  I think if I show up to sunday school with an Angels and Demons deck I might get the boot.  (FYI - I believe in Angels and Demons, just without the wings and so literally battling for the human race).

But as we haven't seen anything of this deck otherwise, all i can go on is the card back which I do like.  I think it's very artistic and appealing.  IMO.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #88 on: May 13, 2013, 11:17:20 AM »
 

xx789m

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If you remember, I didn't say a deck of cards. I said a LINE OF DECKS, meaning there will be more. Fundemental biblical characters will most likely be the second one.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #89 on: May 13, 2013, 03:22:26 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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If you remember, I didn't say a deck of cards. I said a LINE OF DECKS, meaning there will be more. Fundemental biblical characters will most likely be the second one.

Ah, well there you go.  My bad for misinterpreting.  Good luck on this deck, I look forward to seeing some of the artwork. 
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #90 on: May 13, 2013, 03:43:40 PM »
 

xx789m

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If you remember, I didn't say a deck of cards. I said a LINE OF DECKS, meaning there will be more. Fundemental biblical characters will most likely be the second one.

Ah, well there you go.  My bad for misinterpreting.  Good luck on this deck, I look forward to seeing some of the artwork.
Thanks. I hope you guys will like it.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #91 on: May 14, 2013, 12:48:59 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I feel if you go towards the 7 deadly sins you will lose a lot of your potential christian market. keep it more cheery and you have families who would buy a deck to support you. 7 deadly would not get you that. Would you want your child playing with a deck that talks about the 7 deadly sins?

Why not?  It's in the Bible, isn't it?  How can you avoid the 7 deadly sins if you don't even know what they are?


I don't know that I want my child playing with an angels and demons deck.  But to Don's point, it would be easier to separate out the good and bad forces (duality).  it just seems that this deck concept started as a 'Heroes of the Bible' and has now gone to 'Angels and Demons'.  If your target is a Christian market, would a deck about battling mythical creatures (and yes I said it) be more popular than fundamental biblical characters?  I think if I show up to sunday school with an Angels and Demons deck I might get the boot.  (FYI - I believe in Angels and Demons, just without the wings and so literally battling for the human race).

But as we haven't seen anything of this deck otherwise, all i can go on is the card back which I do like.  I think it's very artistic and appealing.  IMO.

If you showed up to Sunday School with an Angels and Demons deck - and the Angels were WINNING - that might be a different story... :))

As was pointed out, he's planning a series of decks and talking about them pretty much all at once, so I can understand if it seems a little confusing as he shifts from one deck idea to the next.  My advice, xx789m, would be to stick for now to a SINGLE IDEA and see that to fruition before chasing down all the other ideas, because a) we have yet to see you deliver anything, and b) it makes you sound like a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none, when you should simply sound like a master.  Stop talking the talk and start walking the walk.  (And choose a board name that sounds more like a person and less like a pornographic droid...)  :))
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #92 on: May 14, 2013, 12:39:11 PM »
 

xx789m

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I feel if you go towards the 7 deadly sins you will lose a lot of your potential christian market. keep it more cheery and you have families who would buy a deck to support you. 7 deadly would not get you that. Would you want your child playing with a deck that talks about the 7 deadly sins?

Why not?  It's in the Bible, isn't it?  How can you avoid the 7 deadly sins if you don't even know what they are?


I don't know that I want my child playing with an angels and demons deck.  But to Don's point, it would be easier to separate out the good and bad forces (duality).  it just seems that this deck concept started as a 'Heroes of the Bible' and has now gone to 'Angels and Demons'.  If your target is a Christian market, would a deck about battling mythical creatures (and yes I said it) be more popular than fundamental biblical characters?  I think if I show up to sunday school with an Angels and Demons deck I might get the boot.  (FYI - I believe in Angels and Demons, just without the wings and so literally battling for the human race).

But as we haven't seen anything of this deck otherwise, all i can go on is the card back which I do like.  I think it's very artistic and appealing.  IMO.

If you showed up to Sunday School with an Angels and Demons deck - and the Angels were WINNING - that might be a different story... :))

As was pointed out, he's planning a series of decks and talking about them pretty much all at once, so I can understand if it seems a little confusing as he shifts from one deck idea to the next.  My advice, xx789m, would be to stick for now to a SINGLE IDEA and see that to fruition before chasing down all the other ideas, because a) we have yet to see you deliver anything, and b) it makes you sound like a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none, when you should simply sound like a master.  Stop talking the talk and start walking the walk.  (And choose a board name that sounds more like a person and less like a pornographic droid...)  :))



pornographic droid. Good one.......I'll have to remember that :)) XD
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #93 on: May 21, 2013, 12:27:03 AM »
 

xx789m

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And here is the revised draft with a bit of color. I'm liking it. The fire and pitchforks for demonic, and the big sword and halo for angelic.actually the color is really the only thing thats "revised" and it was added, not revised...
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #94 on: May 21, 2013, 02:36:12 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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And here is the revised draft with a bit of color. I'm liking it. The fire and pitchforks for demonic, and the big sword and halo for angelic.actually the color is really the only thing thats "revised" and it was added, not revised...

Could you post a larger image?  Watermark it if you must, but that's a bit small for my old eyes...
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #95 on: May 23, 2013, 05:45:17 PM »
 

xx789m

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Heaven forbid you zoom in......
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #96 on: May 23, 2013, 07:03:26 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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Heaven forbid you zoom in......

Bro, do you know how resolution works?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #97 on: May 23, 2013, 11:06:22 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Heaven forbid you zoom in......

Bro, do you know how resolution works?


Oh, well, if THAT'S what it's gonna look like, hell, count me in!  I love huge pixels in print!  :))
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2013, 06:23:52 AM »
 

sprouts1115

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virtues

http://www.virtuescience.com/virtuelist.html#.UZ87CZXNz8s

Here are 49 virtues.  If you take the  :) vise versa :t11: of the virtue you have a possible deck of  98 cards.  You would probably want to pick the best ones to fit your 54 card deck of angles and demons.   I'm sorta on the same path.  This is some of my early research...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 06:28:29 AM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #99 on: May 30, 2013, 12:40:00 AM »
 

xx789m

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virtues

http://www.virtuescience.com/virtuelist.html#.UZ87CZXNz8s

Here are 49 virtues.  If you take the  :) vise versa :t11: of the virtue you have a possible deck of  98 cards.  You would probably want to pick the best ones to fit your 54 card deck of angles and demons.   I'm sorta on the same path.  This is some of my early research...















what the actual fuck does that mean?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2013, 07:13:44 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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what the actual fuck does that mean?

You know if you want to promote a "Christian" deck, you should really consider what you post in public forums as some people may research this deck and find that perhaps your take on Christian morals doesn't match their own and decide to abandon support for your deck.  You should accept advice here for what it is, people who want to help you succeed.  You don't have to do it, or you can apply portions of it, as a designer that's up to you.  As for me, I'm not sure I want to keep responding to this post as I'm uncertain where you are taking this and your attitude toward it.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #101 on: May 30, 2013, 08:00:09 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virtues

http://www.virtuescience.com/virtuelist.html#.UZ87CZXNz8s

Here are 49 virtues.  If you take the  :) vise versa :t11: of the virtue you have a possible deck of  98 cards.  You would probably want to pick the best ones to fit your 54 card deck of angles and demons.   I'm sorta on the same path.  This is some of my early research...

what the actual fuck does that mean?

ManMadeGames has a point, bro.

What Sprouts is getting at is you can create a certain symmetry in the deck by selecting 26 (or 27, with jokers) virtues represented by angels displaying said virtues, then take the mirror opposite of each virtue and have them represented by devils/demons doing the same.  It's not the worst idea in the world, though I get the feeling it's not what you're aiming for.
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