You are Here:
Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...

Author (Read 3725 times)

Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« on: February 21, 2012, 02:34:19 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,071
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74
  • Encarded makes custom playing cards.

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:

  • Twitter:

  • YouTube:
 :D   Apparently people do like these independently designed playing card projects, don't they? Vortex vs Tendril: Who will win!?


Joking aside, in the end, I think that card aficionados win because it's possible now for someone to take an idea and make it real, giving everyone new choices from new perspectives. I think that's a beautiful thing and am excited by all the great work out there. Maybe in a few years we'll see even better work across the board as the big guys realize that they can't pump out the same stuff and keep people's attention.


I thank people like Alex, Lance and Russell and services like Kickstarter for paving new ground in this whole arena. It's so much fun, I just love this stuff.
Paul Carpenter
Designer - http://encarded.com

Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 02:41:10 PM »
 

Evan

  • I AM EVAAAAN!
  • Ace of Spades
  • *
  • 3,754
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74

  • Facebook:

  • Twitter:

  • YouTube:
Well in the end with all the stuff that got messed up with the Vortex, Tendril has already beat it.

But the money is well deserver for both of you, you have created such beautiful decks.
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 03:57:19 PM »
 

dmbaggs

  • Jack of Diamonds
  • *
  • 1,697
    Posts
  • Reputation: 55

  • Twitter:
Well looking from strictly a funds on Kickstarter page standpoint it's going to be a tight race!! A little less than 2,000USD away from passing the Kickstarter record  ;D

But in the end we're all winners!
Most Recent Addition | White Lions | A. Bandit
Decks I Want | English Laundry | Bape x Bicycle Deck | Absolut Deck
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 04:22:52 PM »
 

dee1orean

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • 179
    Posts
  • Reputation: 33

  • Facebook:
I've already said elsewhere I think both decks are awesome.

The fact that you and alex can both produce decks independently that are as good as if not better than anything designed by the big names and that we as customers can help get these decks produced makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!!!
I'm the Master of Nonsensical Sense and illogical Logic
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 04:23:17 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

  • King of Hearts
  • *
  • 2,767
    Posts
  • Reputation: 65
  • Check out my sales post in my signature!

  • YouTube:
I think Tendril is going to reach about 35,000$, more than the vortex!
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 05:45:26 PM »
 

digipunk

  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 629
    Posts
  • Reputation: 23
:D   Apparently people do like these independently designed playing card projects, don't they? Vortex vs Tendril: Who will win!?

It is unfair to Vortex, I hadn't known how to pledge on KS projects until you taught me  ;) ;) ;)
 
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 06:32:30 PM »
 

jmrock

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 650
    Posts
  • Reputation: 29
Nathan - Do you have any conception of finances?  Where do you come up with this stuff?  You always post the most arbitrary figures that really have no grounding in reality... "This one's rich - $35,000 - That's too much money..."  You need to take an accounting class... Just saying... Edit: And while I'm being critical, would you please take down that absolutely awful looking Steampunk banner... No one wants to look at that dreadful gray and red Steampunk Backer Banner every time you post...

Also,  I don't want to be the one to burst anyone's bubble - The card market seems to be on its way there soon enough, but really... People ought to be more humble... Your deck is nice and I pledged... And it's a nice rush to raise that type of money, especially if you haven't had it before, but just relax and take it down a notch... I'm not hating... I truly appreciate your hard work as I do with others, but you must realize that you're not really doing anything revolutionary... You had your design printed... Again, congratulations, and maybe I'm wrong, but speaking only for myself, You're not re-inventing the wheel and sometimes not only you, but some others as well that have starting their own "Card Company" and I use the term company loosely don't seem too humble... Relax, enjoy, be thankful, and most of all be appreciative that you have the opportunity solely because of the people on these forums to print your deck...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:34:42 PM by jmrock »
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 06:49:55 PM »
 

xela

  • Queen of Clubs
  • *
  • 2,475
    Posts
  • Reputation: 171
  • Aspire. Conceive. Create.

  • DeviantArt:

  • YouTube:
Haha remember how it started Paul and where a huge portion of your customers come from. ;)

In all honesty, more power to you. I too annihilated the KS record and it was a fun ego boost, even if KS ended up ruining it for me in the end by giving people only 5 days to pay; and I'm happy to pass the reigns over. You'll be holding on to this record for a while, since my next release is selling half the decks, with a max cap of $30k as opposed to Vortex's max cap of $36k.

My estimate is that you'll reach the $40k mark with this one. :)
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 07:30:09 PM »
 

phantom1412

  • Jack of Diamonds
  • *
  • 1,887
    Posts
  • Reputation: 78

  • Facebook:

  • Twitter:
I like vortex more than tendril.
They are both great, but if comparing them, I have only one answer. "Vortex"
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 08:13:35 PM »
 

digipunk

  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 629
    Posts
  • Reputation: 23
@Alex, though I didn't pledge the Vortex project on KS, I ordered 2 in your final sale on Jan 21st  :P :P
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 09:46:50 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,071
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74
  • Encarded makes custom playing cards.

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:

  • Twitter:

  • YouTube:
Well, posing it as a "competition" was certainly in jest, and I specifically pointed out that folks like Alex paved the way for sure. I've been sure to thank everyone at every opportunity and that won't stop any time soon (even with the naysayers that perhaps some of you recall). Being able to following footsteps like those that went before is honestly an honor and I'm deeply appreciative of the hard work done by everyone. 

Certainly, none of this is truly revolutionary but after many years of other creative endeavors I can say its very rewarding to bring even one small insight into a market that might change a few perspectives. This is still great fun and I hugely enjoy being able to work within such a great hobby and collection of people. I wasn't trying to be boastful, sorry if anyone took it that way. Just having some fun. :)
Paul Carpenter
Designer - http://encarded.com

Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 09:53:14 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

  • King of Hearts
  • *
  • 2,767
    Posts
  • Reputation: 65
  • Check out my sales post in my signature!

  • YouTube:
@jmrock - I don't know why you are being rude. I don't recall saying: "This one's rich - $35,000 - That's too much money...". Also, it's a free country and I like having this banner in my signature as long as Alex doesn't tell me to remove it.
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 10:22:26 PM »
 

jmrock

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 650
    Posts
  • Reputation: 29
Although I'm not a fan of printing retractions... I must say in retrospect maybe I was a little harsh to more than one person... As far as the Steampunk banner... My feelings haven't changed about that... And I know I'm not alone... hahaha!!!
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 11:31:43 PM »
 

digipunk

  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 629
    Posts
  • Reputation: 23
Few days ago I just explained KickStarter to people on Chinese forums, at the same time I complained about something. When I explained the meanings of those numbers on KS pages (I used Tendril and Spectrum as examples), I told them the meney belong to the designers now. From a backer's position, "pledge" means "pre-order" practically instead of "invest". I had to explain this to them, otherwise I was afraid they would think "wow.. the amount of meney already exceeded the goal, so they will end the project right now or return some to us". I tried to let them know the designers might use the additional money to provide better services.
 
What did I complain about? As a backer, I haven't seen the actual decks, but you already began talking about the 2nd decks. I used a harsh term in Chinese to describe it (這些人食髓知味). I know, I know, I know it will be too late to discuss the 2nd deck after the 1st deck is released, it needs much time to design a new deck from scratch, but I don't feel good to see this phenomenon. Designers always emphasize how KS makes their dreams come true. Well, haven't your dreams come true? Why are you in such a hurry to start the 2nd decks? The first deck is a dream, the 2nd deck is business, in my opinion.
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 11:56:45 PM »
 

moonexe

  • Lurker
  • *
  • 0
    Posts
  • Reputation: 26

  • Facebook:
What did I complain about? As a backer, I haven't seen the actual decks, but you already began talking about the 2nd decks.

Wait, what? If you haven't seen the deck yet, you need to look better. There's a picture on the kickstarter page that shows EVERY SINGLE FACE OF THE DECK. ::)

And why the hell is it wrong of him to be talking about a second deck? I fail to see your point entirely.
Grin like a Cheshire cat, and remember: we're all mad here.
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 12:04:23 AM »
 

dmbaggs

  • Jack of Diamonds
  • *
  • 1,697
    Posts
  • Reputation: 55

  • Twitter:
What did I complain about? As a backer, I haven't seen the actual decks, but you already began talking about the 2nd decks.

Wait, what? If you haven't seen the deck yet, you need to look better. There's a picture on the kickstarter page that shows EVERY SINGLE FACE OF THE DECK. ::)

And why the hell is it wrong of him to be talking about a second deck? I fail to see your point entirely.

I think he is talking about not actually having experienced the deck and how it feels, handles, etc. I can see his point if that's the case. I have backed a few Kickstarter campaigns and I don't even know if the decks lived up to the hype yet, but we are already getting ready for the next deck.
Most Recent Addition | White Lions | A. Bandit
Decks I Want | English Laundry | Bape x Bicycle Deck | Absolut Deck
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 12:14:13 AM »
 

digipunk

  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 629
    Posts
  • Reputation: 23
What did I complain about? As a backer, I haven't seen the actual decks, but you already began talking about the 2nd decks.

Wait, what? If you haven't seen the deck yet, you need to look better. There's a picture on the kickstarter page that shows EVERY SINGLE FACE OF THE DECK. ::)

And why the hell is it wrong of him to be talking about a second deck? I fail to see your point entirely.

Sorry, I meant the decks haven't been produced and I haven't got the actual decks. Did I say they are wrong? I won't say they are wrong because they started talking about the 2nd decks. They may well do this, I just don't feel good.
_
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 12:35:51 AM by digipunk »
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 01:31:08 AM »
 

xela

  • Queen of Clubs
  • *
  • 2,475
    Posts
  • Reputation: 171
  • Aspire. Conceive. Create.

  • DeviantArt:

  • YouTube:
I agree with digipunk entirely on the idea of the first deck being purely a dream with zero care for financial gain, but the second deck becomes business. Design-time wise, I took about a five month break from the core design work of Vortex (August) to the Harlequin (core work is starting now). I still maintain that 3-5 decks a year is the perfect amount. I want my collectors to enjoy the gems of having a deck, and not feel like their v1 is easily replaceable with a v2. I also don't want to contribute to bursting the card bubble.

Although Paul is talking about a new deck already, I have a feeling we won't see it go live for a while. Maybe in the summer? Definitely not before the Tendril even goes to print.

As far as competition goes, I'm fairly lax about it. Paul's work is excellent, so why shouldn't he get to enjoy his Kickstarter project? There are some terrible launches on KS that had moderate to great success that I get annoyed by, but when I see great work getting great results it just makes me feel good.

Paul's a really nice guy. He consistently supports my efforts and the efforts of other designers, same way that I do. There are designers and producers that do not do that, and if you have any hate at all, direct it towards those guys, not guys like Paul. :)

Besides, competition is good for us. If people unanimously claimed Paul's work destroyed my own, that would inspire me to work harder and kick his ass the next time around, and when I do that, he would get himself in gear and kick my ass the time after that.

Those are my philosophies on competition and other people's success. They work for me and keep me happy in life, so I stick by them. :]
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 06:46:54 AM »
 

jmrock

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 650
    Posts
  • Reputation: 29
As Alex raised money for the Vortex deck, he gave back to the deck... To the community... Adding additional flares to the deck... Committing more decks to supporters if the numbers grew enough... It was a nice gesture... I don't see anyone else doing that... I think perhaps it was said previously... If it's just a business treat it as such... Don't act like you're not in it for the money... It's ok- We understand- Everyone likes $... I'm with Digi (whether he likes it or not - hahaha...) People are running around talking about their second decks before the funding is even finished on their first deck...
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 06:50:41 AM »
 

xela

  • Queen of Clubs
  • *
  • 2,475
    Posts
  • Reputation: 171
  • Aspire. Conceive. Create.

  • DeviantArt:

  • YouTube:
I'd love to be in it for the money, but as it stands I've yet to make any. Maybe with the Harlequin? Maybe. I payed KS & Amazon about $3,000, and another $5,000 to various taxes. o_O Too many hidden fees in the whole process kill the possibility of any profit.
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 09:39:24 AM »
 

Paul Carpenter

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,071
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74
  • Encarded makes custom playing cards.

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:

  • Twitter:

  • YouTube:
I do love that we can have these kind of conversations, and thank Alex for the forum to do so. He's been an inspiration to me and I hope that I can the same for someone else.

As Alex said, while it *looks* like a giant pile of money, each and every one of those backers costs money. The product itself, shipping, fees, credit card processing, taxes. Trust us, we are not printing up some cards on a whim and walking away with $15,000.

For people like me (and Alex I'd imagine) we need this process to get that initial boost, but if we are passionate and interested in it, we necessarily need to be thinking down the road. Look at the music industry and the number of "one-hit-wonders" out there that we all fondly remember but feel sorry for. Nobody wants to be that way, so we look at our first project and sees what we can do better/different. Momentum in a market is precious and you have to take advantage of it.

Unless you've done the entire thing, I'm not sure everyone truly knows the amount of detailed work that goes into making a project like this a real thing. There are countless hours of details to work through, over months of time. Not just design, but business, financial, fulfillment, marketing, etc. For example today I have to research if I can get a reseller tax certificate from the state so that I can legally resell a product without additional taxes. That's just one of the dozens of things to consider. We work hard on these first ones because the goal is that the next one doesn't need so much "support" and blind faith that you all graciously give us, but instead can be in your hands like any normal thing you decide to purchase.

I am already working on my next design, but if you see it in print by the end of the year that will be fine. If I literally dropped everything in my life and worked each day on this new deck, I doubt I would have it done in a months time. Perhaps D&D can pump out a deck every week, but I sure can't.

The support of the community is important, humbling and inspiring all in equal measures. Don't think, though, that this is "easy" work for big profit. If you add in all the costs and pay yourself minimum wage for your time, I bet all of us designers are deeply in the hole. :)
Paul Carpenter
Designer - http://encarded.com

Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 12:34:32 PM »
 

Russell CircleCityCards

  • Discourse Veteran
  • *
  • 344
    Posts
  • Reputation: 30

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:
^  Amen, brother.  I enjoy it, but it is WORK.
Circle City Cards - 'Hornet' decks now available!
HOPC - 'Sanguine' & 'Azure' just released!
Facebook - 'Like' us! We frequently have contests!
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2012, 01:52:57 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Royalty
  • *
  • 499
    Posts
  • Reputation: 52

  • Twitter:
I think the Design field has been undervalued for years. A lot of people still think that the software does all the work, and don't see how a designer could make a living from "playing with pictures on the computer".

I'm sure all of us designers have had friends, family members and complete strangers ask for work with the expectation of it being pro bono or at Craigslist bargain designer rates! I always do work for family members for free but am very selective of any extra work aside from my normal 9 to 5 job.

I think the point I'm trying to make is people need to understand that it takes a lot of time to design a set of card, and for a Designer time really is money. If a company like Dan & Dave or Theory 11 hired a freelance Designer/Artist they would pay that artist a hefty hourly rate or a base salary of at least a few thousand dollars (assuming everything's custom, not just the Back, Ace and Jokers). Beyond that, the Designer would probably get a small cut of the profits as well.

thanks, Randy
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2012, 06:52:42 PM »
 

xela

  • Queen of Clubs
  • *
  • 2,475
    Posts
  • Reputation: 171
  • Aspire. Conceive. Create.

  • DeviantArt:

  • YouTube:
Randy the the nail on the head here.  Family and friends think it takes a few minutes to make things appear or disappear in programs. "Just crop out that guy in the background real quick" can easily take half an hour.

One funny misconception people have about Photoshop and editing pictures is that if you delete someone from a picture, the space behind him or her magically fills up with the rest of the background. :P
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Hey Vortex! Yeah, you! I'm coming for you...
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2012, 12:25:23 AM »
 

CBJ

  • Former Moderator
  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Jack of Diamonds
  • *
  • 1,648
    Posts
  • Reputation: 50

  • Facebook:
Just want to take a minute to congratulate Paul on having the most successful Playing Card fundraiser in the history of Kickstarter.

At this second..

777 Backers  (Lucky 7s!)
$33,640 raised!  with 15 days to go!

Beating the old record of $32,017, help by Alex and his Vortex deck.

Congrats again Paul!

Jay
  I was the featured collector on UC for May/June, check it out: http://bit.ly/UC_MyCollection

Also, follow me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/BicyclePlayingCards