The Apollo Deck Reprinted?

[Patrick Varnavas]

Hey guys, I figured I'd give my friends a hand and help spread around a little project they're working on. This is a Kickstarter project that's looking to reprint the Apollo Playing Cards deck from Bicycle.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/benjitaylor/apollo-playing-cards-from-1890s

This is a picture of the original deck, straight from Bicycle.



I think it looks pretty nice, I like the project. What do you guys think?

[Don Boyer]

I think it looks pretty nice, I like the project. What do you guys think?

It does look nice.  But it also looks too expensive.  The pound sterling is trading for just a little more than US$1.55 or C$1.65.  The deck itself, shipped to the US and paid for in US$, is nearly $20 as an early bird, about $24-25 at the regular price.  Two decks are about $40.  Four decks are about $68-69.  Only at six decks does it even start to become affordable, at about $90+ - a little over $15 per deck, delivered.  And even that is steep.

[xela]

I don't think it will get funded, because $25k (I know it's pounds, not dollars) is a rather steep goal, and their rewards don't allow for big buyers. Projects are not funded by people buying 1-2 decks. They are funded by people pledging $1k to stock the deck in a store.

Someone should send them a PM, though, get them on here so they can discuss their cards! Reprinting that design is certainly an excellent choice.

[Don Boyer]

I don't think it will get funded, because $25k (I know it's pounds, not dollars) is a rather steep goal, and their rewards don't allow for big buyers. Projects are not funded by people buying 1-2 decks. They are funded by people pledging $1k to stock the deck in a store.

Someone should send them a PM, though, get them on here so they can discuss their cards! Reprinting that design is certainly an excellent choice.

Patrick, would you care to volunteer?  It does look like a good deck...

[Rob Wright]

I agree with Alex, £25,000 looks to be over $38,000. That's a pretty huge number. I love the design, but with the US shipping. Don't know if I can do it. The other thing that bothers me about this. Are they doing the digitizing/artwork, or are they paying USPCC to do the work. If USPCC is doing everything then that is not what KS is all about. It may also be against KS rules.

[Card Player]

I'm thinking this should not be a kickstarter deck. This is a deck USPCC should be making themselves. Kickstarter should be used to fund your own created projects. This does not sit right with me.

[Don Boyer]

I'm thinking this should not be a kickstarter deck. This is a deck USPCC should be making themselves. Kickstarter should be used to fund your own created projects. This does not sit right with me.

I don't know about that.  There's some amount of artistry involved in a project like this, and it's very much NOT a project USPC usually pursues - they're interested in pushing the flagship lines of Bicycle and Bee far more than they are interested in reviving older lines, especially ones this old.  This is old enough that practically no one is alive who ever played with this brand and back design, thus limiting the nostalgia factor.

[Rob Wright]

I'm thinking this should not be a kickstarter deck. This is a deck USPCC should be making themselves. Kickstarter should be used to fund your own created projects. This does not sit right with me.

I don't know about that.  There's some amount of artistry involved in a project like this, and it's very much NOT a project USPC usually pursues - they're interested in pushing the flagship lines of Bicycle and Bee far more than they are interested in reviving older lines, especially ones this old.  This is old enough that practically no one is alive who ever played with this brand and back design, thus limiting the nostalgia factor.

While I would agree that USPCC would not want to pursue a project like this. If these guys are just paying USPCC to digitize/reproduce missing cards. Then how is there any artistry by these guys? Anyone can find an old set of cards on line-call the company and say how much would this cost to reproduce. Also the guy in the pitch looks like a 14 year old kid.

[Don Boyer]

While I would agree that USPCC would not want to pursue a project like this. If these guys are just paying USPCC to digitize/reproduce missing cards. Then how is there any artistry by these guys? Anyone can find an old set of cards on line-call the company and say how much would this cost to reproduce. Also the guy in the pitch looks like a 14 year old kid.

The guy in the pitch is a kid.  I figured the braces would be the giveaway...  Am I the only one that finds it odd that a London-based project is being run by a kid with an American accent?  Yet another reason while this is very unlikely to reach a goal of £25,000.

You're assuming that USPC has all the old files, plates, samples, etc. on hand.  They've lost more of their history than they've kept at this point in the game - one of the side effects of having changed hands so many times, in some cases into the hands of a neglectful owner.  This would more likely involve finding a good-quality original deck sample that's clean enough to be scanned and manually cleaning up the images until they looked print-worthy.  It's more like a job of art restoration than a simple copying job.  Art restoration can be an art in itself.

Of course, the faces could also have been obtained from a CD-ROM that's paired with a book on old playing card faces...  The only way to know for sure would be if this deck originally had genuinely unique faces that don't appear on that CD-ROM.

[Benjam]

I have to agree with what's being said here. I love the look of this deck and would pledge the shit out of this project if it were more affordable, and if it gave savings to people who wanted to buy a brick of them!
Hopefully the project gets tweaked, because the cards look great.

[Card Player]

I'm thinking this should not be a kickstarter deck. This is a deck USPCC should be making themselves. Kickstarter should be used to fund your own created projects. This does not sit right with me.

I don't know about that.  There's some amount of artistry involved in a project like this, and it's very much NOT a project USPC usually pursues - they're interested in pushing the flagship lines of Bicycle and Bee far more than they are interested in reviving older lines, especially ones this old.  This is old enough that practically no one is alive who ever played with this brand and back design, thus limiting the nostalgia factor.

While I would agree that USPCC would not want to pursue a project like this. If these guys are just paying USPCC to digitize/reproduce missing cards. Then how is there any artistry by these guys? Anyone can find an old set of cards on line-call the company and say how much would this cost to reproduce. Also the guy in the pitch looks like a 14 year old kid.

I think you misunderstood. I'm saying it should be a USPCC deck, NOT a Kickstarter.

[Paul.Middleton]

The other thing that sits a little uneasy (at least with me anyway) is that it appears to be from a project creator who cancelled a previous project - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/punchmile/the-dfc-deck-of-playing-cards-the-start-to-a-trilo?ref=live

For me it would be better to use the same account, it makes me a little nervous that he deleted that account and registered a new one.

[benjitaylor]

Hey guys, I understand everything you are saying. The bit that really costs is scanning in everything and drawing it out exactly the same so we have the files in a high enough quality to print. It is a lot of money and it is doubtful whether it will get funded. Thank you for the kind words about the project. JP does have a point. Although it is silly, I deleted my previous Kickstarter account so I could use my primary email for newer better projects. If you have any questions please ask me. Any feedback is super helpful.

I would like to ask something, what would happen if we were to cancel and relaunch with a new video, new goal etc. how would we do it? What would the response be? I am asking you guys because you know what you are talking about and I am considering this.

[Ben Taylor]

I remember your last project, mostly because you stole my name. I liked your back and ace, but you had a lot of unfinished work ahead of you when you launched that project. You asked for advice, and you were told to finish the deck and relaunch the project.

Are you paying someone to do the work or doing it yourself? I'm pretty sure most deck designers spend more than 40 hours on a deck. If you're doing the work, you should have most of it done before you launched on Kickstarter. If you're paying someone else to do it, they are going to get any profit you might have made, and you will be stuck with doing all the shipping and dealing with all the complaints.

If you're just trying to gauge the interest in the deck, you should have started a topic here. If you're really serious about this project, spend at least an hour every night working on it. You will have it 75% complete by the time the project ends, and the more work you've done, the more likely you will be to get backers.

[benjitaylor]

Hey Ben, we cannot do this bit of the process ourselves. The USPCC have one of the only decks left and it is in their archives. Legally, they are the only ones who can do this process and so we have to pay them to do it. However, I fully understand what you are saying and i'm taking everything into consideration.

[Card Player]

Hey Ben, we cannot do this bit of the process ourselves. The USPCC have one of the only decks left and it is in their archives. Legally, they are the only ones who can do this process and so we have to pay them to do it. However, I fully understand what you are saying and i'm taking everything into consideration.

Why don't you just ask USPCC to reprint the deck themselves. Why would you pay USPCC to reprint their own deck. A few years ago I really wanted Aristocrat Banknotes, so I wrote the USPCC. The answer was they had no plans at the time to reprint them. One year later we have Aristocrat Banknotes back in print. I'm not taking credit but USPCC might not know there is demand for the Apollo deck. Have you even contacted USPCC yet to see if they will allow you to print them? I'd rather wait for USPCC to release them on their own then risk money on a Kickstarter that I might not get what I pay for. Ben, you guys are not exactly the most reliable deck producers on Kickstarter.

[benjitaylor]

Good point. However, when I asked USPCC about the Apollo deck and if they had any plans to print it they said they had no plans and that's when I asked if I could make a Kickstarter to help fund not only printing the decks, but also scanning in all designs etc. I love these cards and that is why I want to try and get them back in print but that does cost a lot of money. I do get what your saying though.

[Don Boyer]

I'm thinking this should not be a kickstarter deck. This is a deck USPCC should be making themselves. Kickstarter should be used to fund your own created projects. This does not sit right with me.

I don't know about that.  There's some amount of artistry involved in a project like this, and it's very much NOT a project USPC usually pursues - they're interested in pushing the flagship lines of Bicycle and Bee far more than they are interested in reviving older lines, especially ones this old.  This is old enough that practically no one is alive who ever played with this brand and back design, thus limiting the nostalgia factor.

While I would agree that USPCC would not want to pursue a project like this. If these guys are just paying USPCC to digitize/reproduce missing cards. Then how is there any artistry by these guys? Anyone can find an old set of cards on line-call the company and say how much would this cost to reproduce. Also the guy in the pitch looks like a 14 year old kid.

I think you misunderstood. I'm saying it should be a USPCC deck, NOT a Kickstarter.

Allow me to requote a portion of the above with emphasis on the part that should answer your statement:

I'm thinking this should not be a kickstarter deck. This is a deck USPCC should be making themselves. Kickstarter should be used to fund your own created projects. This does not sit right with me.

I don't know about that.  There's some amount of artistry involved in a project like this, and it's very much NOT a project USPC usually pursues - they're interested in pushing the flagship lines of Bicycle and Bee far more than they are interested in reviving older lines, especially ones this old.  This is old enough that practically no one is alive who ever played with this brand and back design, thus limiting the nostalgia factor.

Old decks are cool, but decks so old that no one remembers them from childhood will raise shrugs rather than open wallets for most typical card buyers.  This is strictly of interest to the collectors market, thus of less interest to USPC, who aims for the biggest possible market they can find.

[benjitaylor]

I am doing this project because I think it would be awesome to reprint something that was around over a hundred years ago. To hold it in your hands would just be amazing. The goal is big but I really believe asking for any less and we would really struggle. Maybe it is too much for a deck of cards project but it is how much we need for this deck of cards project if you get what I mean. It will either get funding or it won't. It is doubtful and I fully acknowledge we are asking for a lot. We will have to wait and see.   

[xela]

- While most designers do spend more than 40 hours on a deck, that's only if they're making designs from scratch. Getting an old design to be digital, that sounds to be about 40 hours of work.

- Benji, most of your backers will be from the KS community and not from here. That said, having a deleted account definitely hurts chances of getting OUR pledges, and cancelling your project to relaunch it furthers that. I know that there can be very logistically good reasons to do these things, but you have to go about it tactfully.

I would let the project not get funded, and then relaunch it when you have all your ducks in a row at a later date.

It can't hurt you. If you get, say, a dozen more backers, that's 12 more people who will automatically pledge later on!

[Don Boyer]

I am doing this project because I think it would be awesome to reprint something that was around over a hundred years ago. To hold it in your hands would just be amazing. The goal is big but I really believe asking for any less and we would really struggle. Maybe it is too much for a deck of cards project but it is how much we need for this deck of cards project if you get what I mean. It will either get funding or it won't. It is doubtful and I fully acknowledge we are asking for a lot. We will have to wait and see.

Benji,

Your project is expensive.  VERY expensive.  And you're a young guy - more a kid, really, but I'm trying to put a nice spin on this - who's trying to create this grand business enterprise that even many adults find daunting to impossible.

My recommendation: let your project close, knowing that it's highly unlikely to get funded the first time out.  Sit down and look LONG and HARD at the costs associated with your project.  See if you can find a US distributor/fulfillment center who can work with you to reduce the cost of shipping the decks in North America (and possibly Asia/Australia, if it happens to be cheaper than shipping from the UK).  Having a UK fulfillment center to work with as well would be a big plus - it saves you from the daunting task of filling what could be THOUSANDS of orders.  Look into what extras might be appealing to your audience.  (This would be an excellent place to do such research, simply by asking around.)  Come up with hard figures that make sense and get everything lined up and ready to roll.  Then relaunch your project with a more realistic goal.  And remember that playing card projects are permitted to offer up to a dozen decks, due to how a "brick" of a dozen cards is an industry standard for packaging - Kickstarter will allow it and some of your backers will want it, especially if the discount is big enough.

Consider this, as well, though it won't be a popular decision with some: restrict orders to distant countries where you don't have a fulfillment center to a minimum of three decks.  The expense of packing one- and two-deck orders and posting them by Air Mail International will put a HUGE drain on your project's budget.  It becomes more cost-effective for you and for your distant buyer if you have them invest for at least three decks.

You really need to figure out where every nickel and dime will go and how to cover the expense.  There's an expression that's popular in the military which you should bear in mind: if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

[benjitaylor]

Thank you Alex. I know what you mean and I am thinking about what to do. I may let the project run to the end and see what happens.

Thank you Don, this is very helpful. So in your opinion, I should cancel the project and relaunch at a later date? Will that not look very bad when I launch other projects on my account?

[kdklown]

Clearly putting the cart before the horse here but to piggyback on one of Don's comments...  A couple of add ons that, from my perspective, would be home runs with this deck are as follows...

1) Some reprints of vintage playing card advertisements.  The kind you could imagine seeing hung in a general store in the 1890's.  Could be original designs.

2) *Replicas of old time card presses.  Used around and before the turn of the last century to prolong the life of a deck of cards.  Saved buying new ones that were used constantly either in the local saloon or at home.  Of course you would have to outsource this production.*

Again a little early but theses are a couple things that leapt to mind when I thought about this deck.

* I'm sure Don will correct or can elaborate on these statements.*

[Don Boyer]

Thank you Don, this is very helpful. So in your opinion, I should cancel the project and relaunch at a later date? Will that not look very bad when I launch other projects on my account?

No, Alex raised a point about looking a little flaky if you keep launching and canceling.  Just let it run its course - unless for some odd reason you don't think £25,000 is enough to get it made and shipped...

Clearly putting the cart before the horse here but to piggyback on one of Don's comments...  A couple of add ons that, from my perspective, would be home runs with this deck are as follows...

1) Some reprints of vintage playing card advertisements.  The kind you could imagine seeing hung in a general store in the 1890's.  Could be original designs.

2) *Replicas of old time card presses.  Used around and before the turn of the last century to prolong the life of a deck of cards.  Saved buying new ones that were used constantly either in the local saloon or at home.  Of course you would have to outsource this production.*

Again a little early but theses are a couple things that leapt to mind when I thought about this deck.

* I'm sure Don will correct or can elaborate on these statements.*

Love the idea of the ads.  But making a deck press, unless you do it as a high-end item, is impractical.  Even modern deck presses made from wing nuts, bolts and Plexiglas aren't all that cheap.  A wooden one in the old style would be hundreds of dollars (or pounds sterling).

For the next attempt at this project, consider redoing the video.  Use graphics with music and/or a voiceover person with a script.  It would lend a more professional appearance.  You, in braces, talking off the cuff - you're a nice kid and all, but it's not helping you look like a mature, responsible project creator.  Image counts for a lot.

[benjitaylor]

Thanks for all the help Don. The person in the video is my good friend Sean who I am doing the project with. He is comfortable on camera so we agreed for him to do the video but I do know what you mean. If we relaunch I will be sure to make the video to a higher quality. Thanks for all your help.

[vmagic]

Actually after reading through the comments I don't think this deck should even be on Kickstarter as mentioned before. It's not original, you're not doing any of the work yourself, you can't give us progress updates as required by kickstarter because there is none until it is funded, and lastly there are no guarantees! Also you are a kid, I've seen many much older people get in way over their heads with Kickstarter projects, you sure you can handle it?

[xela]

Actually after reading through the comments I don't think this deck should even be on Kickstarter as mentioned before. It's not original, you're not doing any of the work yourself, you can't give us progress updates as required by kickstarter because there is none until it is funded, and lastly there are no guarantees! Also you are a kid, I've seen many much older people get in way over their heads with Kickstarter projects, you sure you can handle it?

1. A project doesn't have to be original to go on KS, though granted originality does help boost funding.

2. You don't have to "do the work yourself" to go on KS. You just have to create the project and oversee management of it.

3. KS does not require progress updates unless there is something to update, which is not always the case. "Everything is going according to plan" is a big enough update.

4. Of course there are no guarantees, I don't know why you think that because there are no guarantees, it doesn't belong on KS. The very nature of KS depends on "no guarantees." You're giving him money for him to create what he wants to create, and the only guarantee you get is that he has to refund you if he doesn't make a good effort to deliver what he promised. Stop funding KS projects and pretending you're on eBay/Amazon. This weird mentality is one that I have  ONLY seen in the playing card community. Everyone else seems to understand that a funding platform =\= web store.

5. The only thing he has to handle is shipping, which is the one point you're 100% correct on. It's pretty much the only part you can fuck up on a card project.

[Paul.Middleton]

Hey guys, I understand everything you are saying. The bit that really costs is scanning in everything and drawing it out exactly the same so we have the files in a high enough quality to print. It is a lot of money and it is doubtful whether it will get funded. Thank you for the kind words about the project. JP does have a point. Although it is silly, I deleted my previous Kickstarter account so I could use my primary email for newer better projects. If you have any questions please ask me. Any feedback is super helpful.

I would like to ask something, what would happen if we were to cancel and relaunch with a new video, new goal etc. how would we do it? What would the response be? I am asking you guys because you know what you are talking about and I am considering this.

Great to see some honesty and transparency! I'm not sure I understand why, but it's great to see some honesty.

Having a UK fulfillment center to work with as well would be a big plus - it saves you from the daunting task of filling what could be THOUSANDS of orders.

If this interests you down the line in the future - drop me an email. I'm currently talking to one future KS project creator about us taking care of just that.

Consider this, as well, though it won't be a popular decision with some: restrict orders to distant countries where you don't have a fulfillment center to a minimum of three decks.  The expense of packing one- and two-deck orders and posting them by Air Mail International will put a HUGE drain on your project's budget.  It becomes more cost-effective for you and for your distant buyer if you have them invest for at least three decks.

Whilst it is strictly true that it's more cost effective for a backer, it may not be for you - if you went with a distributor or fulfillment centre, then there actually isn't much different between 1,2 and 3 decks. I have a business account with Royal Mail which provides discounts based on economies of scale - so if this is something you wanted to do, myself or a fulfillment centre may offer a cost-effective way of dealing with orders as the discount we'd get from Royal Mail would probably offset the fee you the company to some degree.

Like I say, drop me an email down the line if you want to discuss anything. paul @jpplayingcards.co.uk

[benjitaylor]

Thank you Paul, that actually sounds great. I will be sure to contact you.

[BiggerDee]

For what it's worth, as a decent sized collector, when I pledge on KS, I'm in it for the long haul, and I never cancel a pledge. Over 100 projects backed, and not a single cancelled pledge. I lost respect for backers who cancel their projects just because it looks like funding isn't going to happen. I see it as I'm supporting them, but they are giving up on me. Petty, maybe, but if a creator cancels a project, I refuse to back a relaunch and, more often than not, I don't support that creator again. Good or bad, that's the way that I am. Cancel, and you run the high risk of offending backers.

[benjitaylor]

Good point! I am not going to cancel, I will hope for the best!

[Sovereign]

Guys, thoughts on this KS for reprinting an old USPCC deck:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/benjitaylor/apollo-playing-cards-from-1890s

£25,000 cut off point seems crazy high? He says:

"Why do you need more money than the average deck of cards project?
Unfortunately, this is mainly to do with the digitalisation of the cards. I can't stress how much hard work goes into doing this whereas on a normal deck of cards, you can submit your artwork ready to go. These cards are so old and worn and there are very few remaining. We have to be super careful in this process."

To clarify: he is saying it costs less and is easier to design an entire new deck completely from scratch than to scan in an old one and clean up the files? REALLY?

[Rob Wright]

Already a thread about this one

http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/the-apollo-deck-reprinted/

Where's Don when you need him? 

[Don Boyer]

Already a thread about this one

http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/the-apollo-deck-reprinted/

Where's Don when you need him? 

Right here, Chuckles... 

Guys, thoughts on this KS for reprinting an old USPCC deck:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/benjitaylor/apollo-playing-cards-from-1890s

£25,000 cut off point seems crazy high? He says:

"Why do you need more money than the average deck of cards project?
Unfortunately, this is mainly to do with the digitalisation of the cards. I can't stress how much hard work goes into doing this whereas on a normal deck of cards, you can submit your artwork ready to go. These cards are so old and worn and there are very few remaining. We have to be super careful in this process."

To clarify: he is saying it costs less and is easier to design an entire new deck completely from scratch than to scan in an old one and clean up the files? REALLY?

The goal is crazy-high, and the decks are too expensive for anyone outside the UK.  I hate to say this since it is an attractive deck, but this project has FAIL stamped across it in big red letters...

[Sovereign]

Thanks for shifting this over Don.

Good point. However, when I asked USPCC about the Apollo deck and if they had any plans to print it they said they had no plans and that's when I asked if I could make a Kickstarter to help fund not only printing the decks, but also scanning in all designs etc. I love these cards and that is why I want to try and get them back in print but that does cost a lot of money. I do get what your saying though.

I would have thought that a petition to USPCC where you get commitment to buy from X number of people would be enough to get them to do it - they only need an indication that it will be profitable because they have the resources to execute it, whereas Kickstarter is for people who *don't* have the resources to bring their vision to life. Do you have a cost breakdown? How much do USPCC want to reproduce the decks? Do you have any control over the release - essentially USPCC retain the copyright and can just print whatever copies they want of it - I guess my main issue is: in what sense you have any ownership of the project.

[Don Boyer]

Thanks for shifting this over Don.

Good point. However, when I asked USPCC about the Apollo deck and if they had any plans to print it they said they had no plans and that's when I asked if I could make a Kickstarter to help fund not only printing the decks, but also scanning in all designs etc. I love these cards and that is why I want to try and get them back in print but that does cost a lot of money. I do get what your saying though.

I would have thought that a petition to USPCC where you get commitment to buy from X number of people would be enough to get them to do it - they only need an indication that it will be profitable because they have the resources to execute it, whereas Kickstarter is for people who *don't* have the resources to bring their vision to life. Do you have a cost breakdown? How much do USPCC want to reproduce the decks? Do you have any control over the release - essentially USPCC retain the copyright and can just print whatever copies they want of it - I guess my main issue is: in what sense you have any ownership of the project.

He would have ownership to the same extent that Lee Asher "owns" the Fournier 605 (a variant of their 505 deck), Dan and Dave "own" the Steamboats or New Fan Backs that they reprinted recently, or Ellusionist "owns" the Masters deck - basically a Rider Back with a new Ace of Spades and better stock/finish.  If someone is willing to put up the cash and do their own clean-up work, USPC will happily print one of their own brands that's either a variant or no longer in print.  Most of these designs are old enough that they're not even covered under copyright law any more - USPC tries to protect the most important ones (i.e., the ones still in print today) as trademarks, where different laws apply.  Any of USPC's designs from before the 1920s has an expired copyright and can't be renewed.

His biggest problem is he wants to do clean-up work on a deck that he doesn't own and he has no scans of it he can work with.  Honestly, this isn't a severe problem - someone out there must own it and would be willing to have it scanned.  The faces can actually be done from images out of USPC's archives, except perhaps the joker and Ace of Spades - even back then there were standard faces in use across many brand lines.  The most important thing he would need would be the back, joker and AoS.  And perhaps a tuck box, if he wants to reproduce that.

[Sovereign]

It just feels a bit weird: the high cost, the whole kickstarter without even a sample deck, the school video that doesn't feel like £25k hinges on it. I think that a breakdown of the cost and clarification of the agreement with USPCC would settle it a bit more in my brain, but the good news is that my brain is not an important component in this KS project.

Phill

[Don Boyer]

It just feels a bit weird: the high cost, the whole kickstarter without even a sample deck, the school video that doesn't feel like £25k hinges on it. I think that a breakdown of the cost and clarification of the agreement with USPCC would settle it a bit more in my brain, but the good news is that my brain is not an important component in this KS project.

Phill

The kid's trying to swim the rapids upstream.  Ain't gonna happen.

[Rob Wright]

It just feels a bit weird: the high cost, the whole kickstarter without even a sample deck, the school video that doesn't feel like £25k hinges on it. I think that a breakdown of the cost and clarification of the agreement with USPCC would settle it a bit more in my brain, but the good news is that my brain is not an important component in this KS project.

Phill

A custom deck order from USPCC is about $8,000 + 40hours at $75 per hour/$3,000 = $11,000 +shipping packages +fees from KS/Amazon- does not = £25,000(about $40,000US)

[Don Boyer]

It just feels a bit weird: the high cost, the whole kickstarter without even a sample deck, the school video that doesn't feel like £25k hinges on it. I think that a breakdown of the cost and clarification of the agreement with USPCC would settle it a bit more in my brain, but the good news is that my brain is not an important component in this KS project.

Phill

A custom deck order from USPCC is about $8,000 + 40hours at $75 per hour/$3,000 = $11,000 +shipping packages +fees from KS/Amazon- does not = £25,000(about $40,000US)

He has the "Name of the Wind Disease."  People contract it when they see how much cash that deck raked in and their eyes glaze over, the pupils turning into little dollar (or pound sterling) symbols, the gears in their head grinding to try creating the idea for the next great wunderdeck...