Old Rules topic - use the new one instead

[xela]

The Rules for the Sales, Trades and In Search Of (STISO) Board, updated 14 September 2014 by Don Boyer
This update supersedes all prior rules postings.

Not adhering to these sales rules may result in your sale info being deleted.

YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE:

• A MINIMUM POST COUNT OF 25 POSTS
• AT LEAST 7 DAYS AS A MEMBER
• A REPUTATION SCORE OF AT LEAST ONE (1)
• AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE RULES PRESENTED HERE

BEFORE BEING ALLOWED TO CREATE TOPICS IN THIS BOARD.

Spam posts made anywhere in an attempt to reach the minimum requirement may be removed at management's discretion.  Violators may have their minimum post requirement increased and any threads made in this board deleted.  Posts to the STISO, Conversation Parlor, Support or Archive boards do not count towards your post total.[/i]

General Purpose Rules:

• This is a caveat emptor listing of sales and trades.  The management of this website are not responsible for any deals, sales or trades executed as a result of information obtained here.  You are required to do your own due diligence.  If a trade seems suspect in any way, DON'T DO IT.
• Unless otherwise stated in a specific topic, the default currency used on this board is US dollars and the default payment method is PayPal (or cash if items are being traded/sold in person).  Buyers and sellers are free to specifically state other currencies and payment methods.
• Trading in/selling playing cards, magic instructions, cardistry instructions or any products directly related to these is permitted.  No other items may be posted here for sale or trade.
• You may not trade items that are considered illegal or contraband in either the place of origin or place of destination.  You may not trade in fraudulent merchandise or illegally-made copies of legitimate products.
• You may not sell or trade in a digital video or audio file unless you have the express written consent of the copyright holder to resell that file and provide a copy of such consent as a condition of your sale or trade.  You may trade CDs and DVDs that were created by the original manufacturer under agreement with the copyright owner, but you may not trade "ripped" duplicates made without the copyright holder's consent.
• If you are offering items in more than one category (such as some items for sale here and others for sale on eBay), create separate topics for each category and sort out which items go in which category;  don't make a single topic for all the items mixed together.
• We provide a sticky topic for Trader Testimonials - use this to research your potential trading partners, and please include your testimonials about trades and sales as well, even if they take place elsewhere.
• Posting fraudulent or false information anywhere in this board for any reason can get you banned from the Discourse - don't do it.
• You may post here only if you are interested in buying, selling or trading.  If you are simply commenting on other people's sales and trades with no intent to sell, buy or trade, it is considered spam; DO NOT POST IT HERE.  The Conversation Parlor are where you can make those posts, depending on their nature.
  
• You have the option to limit your business to domestic offers or local/in-person, which must be stated in your topic.  You may refuse to trade with anyone having more negative ratings than positive ratings on the Testimonials topic and no questions will be asked.
• All topics get closed after four weeks from the last post or immediately after an eBay sale is closed, whichever comes first.  If your trade, sale or eBay sale are done, please lock your topic instead of waiting for us to do it for you.
• Product pictures are not required, but they may help stimulate sales and are recommended.
• A brief paragraph telling buyers why you're a great seller may help stimulate sales as well.
• All transactions are required to be negotiated and settled on via the forum's PM system, including the exchange of transaction details, email address, mailing addresses and legal names.  DO NOT DELETE PMs either sent or received that relate to the transaction.  If a dispute arises your PMs are your only evidence; they will be reviewed by a staff member and disciplinary action will be used as necessary.  EBay transactions are exempt from this rule, but if someone is selling an item on eBay and is willing to offer it outside of eBay directly to the buyer, treat it as an ordinary sale topic; this rule would apply.

POSTING YOUR OWN EBAY SALES:

• Title your thread with "[EBAY]" at the beginning of the thread title (i.e., [EBAY] Brand X Playing Cards).
• Give a brief description of the sale and a link to the eBay page.
  
• Everything else is between you and eBay.  You may post questions to sellers here, but the better place to do it is on eBay itself.  The sale is governed by the rules of eBay, not the rules of this board.

POSTING SOMEONE ELSE'S EBAY SALES:

• Put it in the sticky topic "Great Deals on the Web & Retail !!"
• Give a brief description of the sale and a link to the eBay page.
• This is ONLY for posting about sale items on eBay that you found someone else is selling and that you wanted to notify the members of the forum about.
• Do not post follow-up questions about the sale here - the seller will likely not see them!  Send your questions to him or her through eBay.  The sale is governed by the rules of eBay, not the rules of this board.

SELLING:

• Title your thread with "[SALE]" at the beginning of the thread title (i.e., [SALE] Brand Y Playing Cards).  If the item for sale is something you ordered but do not yet have, use the tag [PRESALE] instead and give estimated arrival and shipping dates of the item.
• You MUST include the following info in your thread content: Shipping costs, item costs, what country you are shipping from.
• You may choose to include whether or not you are doing OBOs (Or Best Offer).

TRADING:
Here at The Discourse, we don't take scamming lightly. This is why we are instituting fail-safes to help protect traders. Any trade threads that do not adhere to these following rules will be locked:

• Title your thread with "[TRADE]" at the beginning of the thread title (i.e. [TRADE] 2 Decks of Brand X for 3 Decks of Brand Y).  If the item for trade is something you ordered but do not yet have, use the tag [PRETRADE] instead and give estimated arrival and shipping dates of the item.
• You MUST include the following info in your thread content: Shipping costs (if this is being factored into the transaction), exactly what you are trading to get and what you are offering in exchange, what country you are shipping from.
• Not following through with a trade will result in a permanent ban from The Discourse, no questions asked, and your name added to the board's DO NOT TRADE list.

ISO (IN SEARCH OF):

• Title your thread with "[ISO]" at the beginning of the thread title (i.e. [ISO] Brand Z Playing Cards)
• You MUST include the following info with your post: Minimum money offered, quantity, item/s you are looking for, what country you are in (for shipping purposes).
• If you're looking to trade for the item(s) instead of buying, post a [TRADE] topic.
• It is prohibited to post on someone's topic that you are seeking the same items they're looking for!  It's also very rude and will likely result in members downgrading your reputation score - so don't do it.

These rules are subject to change at any time. Our goal is to foster a positive sales environment.

[xela]

Hey guys, to keep our sales section efficient for everybody, I am requesting that once your thread is done (trade completed, products sold, no longer selling the products, etc.) you add a hash tag to the end of it that says #CLOSED.

Your thread will then be locked, allowing fresh threads to make it up to the top. This benefits everyone in the long run.

Thank you!

[Curt]

I will add a small addition to the rules for this board, in regard to responses to threads. It will be considered spam to post something such as:

" I would totally buy that if I had the money "

or anything of that nature. Doing this does nothing for the seller and creates no question to be answered that helps further clarify parts of the sale.

Thanks
- Curt

[Don Boyer]

I'm trying out auction sales on the STISO board.  The rules are a work in progress and are not yet set in stone - think of it as a beta test; we're testing the concept to find and work out the bugs.  If this is a success, it'll be new standard operating procedure.  If you have suggestions that might help auction sales work better, let me know your ideas and perhaps we'll give them a try.


The first and most important thing I want to say is that I want auction sales here to be a lot less like eBay, and a lot more like a real sale taking place in an auction house.  The rules I'm devising are designed to reduce or negate the effects of snipe bidding, phantom shill bids and all those things that make eBay a terrible place to auction-shop! 


SELLERS - the rules are the same as for [SALES] posts, except as follows:

• Mark your post [AUCTION] at the start of your Subject line.
• Select an ending time for your auction that is between 24 hours and 14 days from the time of your post an list is in Greenwich Mean Time (a.k.a. Universal Coordinated Time); use a time zone converter such as this one if you don't know it already.  You may list conversions to other time zones for convenience, but the GMT end time is the official end time.
• You must have a PayPal account and accept PayPal for payment.  (I'll consider other payment methods once we see how smoothly this style of auction works.  Apologies to people who despise PayPal.)  AMENDED: PayPal is still the preferred method of payment.  However, sellers may choose whatever payment form they prefer.  Be advised, however, while it may be your favorite method of payment, your bidders may not agree, resulting in few bidders and fetching a low price.
• For all US-based auctions, domestic or international, list your minimum bid in US dollars.  Use PayPal to convert to your local currency when the auction is ended.  If you are not selling from the US and not selling to the US, you may post your auction in your country's currency.  For the purposes of this rule, all nations using the euro will be considered as one country.

BUYERS

• SERIOUS BUYERS ONLY - bids may not be retracted and are considered binding offers to purchase.  Failure to purchase on a winning bid will ban you from participating in the STISO board.
• You must have a PayPal account, use it for final payment of winning bids and place bids in currency given by the seller (default is US dollars; see rules above).
• Place [BID] at the start of your bid post, and give your bid.  "[BID] $0.00 xxx" is fine to meet the minimum word and character requirements.  You may add whatever text you want after your bid in the post, as long as you keep it on-topic.
• DO NOT EDIT A BID POST FOR ANY REASON.  Edited bid posts are invalid, and repeat offenders will be banned from future auctions.  BEFORE YOU CLICK "POST", MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS IN ORDER WITH YOUR BID.
• New bids have to exceed any previously posted bid.  There's no minimum increment.  A bid that fails to exceed all previous bids is invalid.  A "tie" is an invalid bid.
• Automated bidding of any kind is not permitted - bids must be manually entered by the bidder.
• Shill bidding is prohibited.  Shill bidders/sellers will be banned.

NON-BIDDERS/OBSERVERS

• While the auction is taking place, there will be NO CROSS-TALK - only legitimate bidders may post.  After the auction, you may post if you wish as long as it's on-topic.

AUCTION ENDING - an auction ends when two conditions have been met:

• The chosen ending time has been met.
• There have been no bids for at least five minutes since the last bid.

This will sound strange to people used to eBay - but it's perfectly natural to people used to a standard auction.  It's the equivalent of the auctioneer shouting "Going once, going twice..." and accepting last-second bids before slamming down the gavel and shouting "Gone!"  This also means that if some genius thinks he'll swoop in at the last second and catch a bargain, he's also restarting the five-minute clock and postponing the end of the auction!


In the event that the five-minute clock keeps resetting because of excessive last-minute bids, all bidding will close exactly twenty-four hours after the original posted end time for the auction and the highest bid in place at that time will win.


A few words of advice - there is no "automatic re-bidding" feature like on eBay.  You actually need to bid what you are willing to pay; low-ball bids stand an awesome chance of being losing bids.  It also means you need to keep tabs on when auctions end since even with the five-minute clock, if you aren't here to re-bid when you're outbid, you lose, period. Bear this in mind when participating in auctions that end at inconvenient times!


In the event of disputes, the Administrator of the Discourse or his appointed agents are the sole arbiters and their decision is the final word.  In participating in an auction here, you accept this as part of the terms of the auction.


Good luck, and may the best bidders win!

[NathanCanadas]

Is it possible to automatically bid in case we won't be there on that day or something? We could inform the seller by PM of our maximum bid.

[phantom1412]

Is it possible to automatically bid in case we won't be there on that day or something? We could inform the seller by PM of our maximum bid.

Then you just post your maximum bid on the time you are able to.

[Don Boyer]

Is it possible to automatically bid in case we won't be there on that day or something? We could inform the seller by PM of our maximum bid.

I shall quote the rule:

Automated bidding of any kind is not permitted - bids must be manually entered by the bidder.

Now, the reason for the rule:

If you were bidding on eBay, would you tell the seller, "Hey, I've bid this much so far, but I'm willing to go as high as this, so if someone outbids me, just automatically bid me above him until you reach this much."?  To a seller that's unscrupulous or even simply desperate, you've just handed him or her instructions on how to shill-bid you right to the edge of what you're willing to pay.

If this becomes a problem for people, I'll try working out rules for proxy bidding that are both fair and not onerous in terms of what needs to be kept track of on my end.  For now, though, if you want that item, you need to bid at least close to what it's worth and not simply the lowest figure you think you can get away with, especially if you won't be present when the auction time expires.  In this kind of bidding environment, eBay-style low-balling like that won't work unless there's just that little interest in the item (and that's one of the things I was trying to improve on when I codified rules for Discourse auctions).

Is it possible to automatically bid in case we won't be there on that day or something? We could inform the seller by PM of our maximum bid.

Then you just post your maximum bid on the time you are able to.

Truer words were never spoken!  [thunderous applause]

[Don Boyer]

Due to an unfortunate incident involving trading in goods not legal for sale, I'm forced to add this rule:


You may not sell or trade in a digital video or audio file unless you have the express written consent of the copyright holder to resell that file and provide a copy of such consent as a condition of your sale or trade.  You may trade CDs and DVDs that were created by the original manufacturer under agreement with the copyright owner, but you may not trade "ripped" duplicates made without the copyright holder's consent.


Failure to follow this rule will get you banned from all STISO activity.

[Don Boyer]

Since we seem to have a lot of postings for eBay sales, use the tag

[EBAY]

instead of the tag

[SALE]

if you're posting a sale that's actually taking place on eBay and not here.  If you have a "mixed" post, items selling both here and there, use both tags.  I'm going to clean up existing posts to reflect the change.

If this gets excessive, I might restrict eBay sale posts.  Technically, they aren't sales; they're eBay ads.  If you guys have an opinion on this, I'd love for you to weigh in on it - send me a PM.

[Joshua Robinson]

Hey Don, would you be able to make a rule saying that you must upload a picture when selling something?

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

Yeah having actual photos of the items on sale will really be helpful as well. Good one Josh

[Don Boyer]

That does sound like a good idea, but it would also completely eliminate any pre-sales from being posted.  I'll confer on this with Alex and we'll decide.

[KPopFever605]

When posting threads like these, must we put the first and last name as well as an email address, because, to some people, that might be too personal.

[Don Boyer]

When posting threads like these, must we put the first and last name as well as an email address, because, to some people, that might be too personal.

Alex stated the rules.  I just follow them.  It makes sense, since it helps reduce fraudulent exchanges when you have to give that information.  If you use a format like one of these to show your email address:

joe - at - 6pack.com
joe 6pack.com
joe @ 6pack.com
joe + 6pack.com

or something similar, it should prevent your email from getting tagged by spambots.

[Don Boyer]

Auction rules have been updated.  Please read them before participating in an auction.

In general, sellers may use alternate payment methods and cross-talk in an auction is forbidden.  But STILL read the rules for more details, because there are more details to know.

[Joshua Robinson]

Don, Are we allowed to make it so it has to go up in say $5 increments or something like that? so say someone bids "$50" the next person has to bid at least "$55.50"??

[Don Boyer]

Don, Are we allowed to make it so it has to go up in say $5 increments or something like that? so say someone bids "$50" the next person has to bid at least "$55.50"??

No.  As stated in the PM you sent me, bidders can offer any amount in increments of $0.01.  Should you end up with some smart aleck bidder always bidding a penny above you, just hit him or her with a serious bid, where it reaches the point that it's too costly to continue bidding even at penny increments.  You can also out bid them by some low amount - if you have a lot of time to kill and nothing better to do with it.

This auction feature is NOT ANYTHING LIKE EBAY, nor was it ever meant to be.  In fact, it was meant to more closely resemble a real-world auction, as held in an auction house with people bidding live or by proxy over the phone.  That means that yes, you can choose whatever increment you wanted to beat the last bid at, but it also means that the auction technically doesn't end until all the bidding at the stated end time has ceased for at least five minutes, those five minutes being the digital equivalent of the auctioneer spouting words at a hundred miles an hours trying to entice people to bid higher.  At the end of those five minutes, if there's been no new bids, the gavel slams and it's "SOLD" to the highest bidder.  There's no bid sniping, because each new bet past the last one resets the clock back to a five-minute countdown - again, it's that auctioneer trying to entice the bidding to continue.

In real world auctions, you can bid at a lower increment than the auctioneer is clamoring for.  For example, bidding on a particular item goes up to $1000, with the auctioneer calling for the next bid at $1200.  There's nothing stopping a bidder at that point from shouting out a price that's higher than the $1000 to become the new high bid, but lower than the $1200 the auctioneer was calling for.  For example, you're at this auction and shout out "One thousand fifty!", at which point the auctioneer declares your bid as the high bid and will continue trying to get another bidder, perhaps at a smaller increment than was being asked for before your bid - so maybe he calls for $1100 or $1150.  The bidding might end up going over $1200 or it might not, but either way, you are able to present a bid at any amount that exceeds the last one.

If we were dealing with something expensive and serious - like antique furniture or works of art hundreds of years old - then anyone beating a bid by a penny or a dollar would be laughed at.  But we're dealing with playing cards here, and most decks don't have a terribly high value, especially when compared to the things mentioned previously.  So for this setting, allowing penny bids isn't entirely inappropriate, if perhaps a little annoying.

If this actually becomes a problem, I'll change the increment, but not as high as $5, considering many decks aren't worth that much in the first place.  It's like making you bid on an economy car in $10,000 increments.  You might get one bid in and that's it, unless someone else thinks it's worth $20,000 and bids - then you're left with the choice of bidding $30,000 on an item not worth nearly as much, or letting the car go to the other bidder.

[Joshua Robinson]

Okay thank you for answering that. Also, on an unrelated but related to the ISO, Sale Board, can you put up other things like wallets or hats, because you ARE technically selling it.

[phantom1412]

Okay thank you for answering that. Also, on an unrelated but related to the ISO, Sale Board, can you put up other things like wallets or hats, because you ARE technically selling it.

If it's magic related items, it might be acceptable.
But I don't think people are expecting to see brand name wallets or hats here, neither they are not going to sell good.

[Joshua Robinson]

I know that phantom. I have a wallet that I have not used and i was thinking of doing a deck/wallet bundle. The wallet cost me $30 and 3 decks $20

[Don Boyer]

I know that phantom. I have a wallet that I have not used and i was thinking of doing a deck/wallet bundle. The wallet cost me $30 and 3 decks $20

If it's a trick wallet of some kind, like a himber wallet or a flaming wallet, I'd say yes, go ahead and sell it here.  If it's just a basic wallet and not a magician's gaff, I'd say no.  I have no desire to set a precedent regarding selling other items here, because then anyone else wishing to sell oddball items will say, "Hey, you let that guy sell his wallet!  What makes him so special?"  It would be best to limit the postings here to any items related directly to magic, cardistry, card collecting - I'd even go as far as poker accessories or items useful for display, storage or transport of decks, such as a shadow box you can hang on a wall or a magician's kit bag.  These are items of direct interest to this community.  General purpose items would be more appropriate for eBay or a flea market.

[Don Boyer]

Attention, all sellers using the [EBAY] tag!

When your eBay sale(s)/auction(s) are completed, PLEASE LOCK YOUR TOPIC if you have nothing else for sale.

[Don Boyer]

Another rule was suggested by munro159 and I liked it, so here it is:

If the item you're posting isn't yet in your possession but is en route from wherever you purchased/obtained it, use the new tag [PRESALE] instead of [SALE].  In addition to the other rules covering sales, a presale must list the estimated time of arrival of the product to you, and the estimated date of shipping the product out to your presale buyers.

EDIT: I'm working on codifying all the rules into a single, comprehensive post.  This is what I have so far - consider this post simply as a "temporary parking space" for all of this.  Please take a look and let me know if there's anything that needs to be clarified or could be shortened.

As Jorgen Von Strangle would say, "Here are 'Da Rules'!":


APPLIES TO ALL TOPICS:

- Failure to follow posting rules may result in your thread being locked, your sale info being deleted, and/or (in extreme cases) being banned from the Discourse.
- If you are not seriously considering selling, buying or trading, DO NOT POST.  No off-topic comments permitted.  Do not butt your nose into someone else's topic.
- If you are offering items in more than one category (such as some items for sale here and others for sale on eBay), create separate topics for each category and sort out which items go in which category;  don't make a single topic for all the items mixed together.
- Scammers and frauds will be kicked off the board.
- Standard default for all posts are that all dollar amounts are in US dollars and PayPal is acceptable for payment.  You may state otherwise if you wish.
- You have the option to limit your business to domestic offers or local/in-person, which must be stated in your topic.  You may refuse to trade with anyone having more negative ratings than positive ratings on the Testimonials topic and no questions will be asked.  You may refuse to trade with anyone else on the board as long as you have a legitimate reason for doing so in the opinion of the board's moderator, any omni-moderator or the owner of AetherCards.
- All posts having no activity in the past four weeks may be closed by the moderator.


EBAY:

- Use the tag [EBAY] at the start of your thread's title.
- Briefly describe what you're selling and include the link to the sale/auction post.
- If you are selling something that you do not yet possess but is on order, you must state that the auction is a "presale" in your first post and give estimated arrival and shipping dates of the item.
- It is recommended that you state whether you're auctioning or using the "buy it now" feature or both.
- When your eBay sale is completed, please lock your topic!
- An example of an eBay topic's first post:
Title: [EBAY] Bricks of Fournier 605s in green/brown
Text: Auctioning bricks of Lee Asher 605's in green, brown and evenly mixed.  No reserve, bidding starts at $30 each. [insert links to eBay posts here.]


SELLING:

- Use the tag [SALE] at the start of your thread's title.  If the item for sale is something you ordered but do not yet have, use the tag [PRESALE] instead and give estimated arrival and shipping dates of the item.
- Sellers must include full name, a valid email address (your profile's email link is also acceptable), the price per item, what country you're shipping from and estimated shipping costs.
- The following items are not mandatory for your sales post, but are highly recommended: pictures of the items for sale, a short bio of why you're someone good to buy from (particularly if you're new to selling here), how many of each item is available for sale, whether you're willing to accept "better offers"/OBO, whether your prices are negotiable.
- An example of a sale topic's first post:
Title: [PRESALE] Smoke and Mirrors, version 382!
Text: This is Joe Blow, selling from Antarctica, and damn it's cold here!  I ordered two bricks of the sold-out S&M v382 in chartreuse and vermillion with the diamond-prism tuck boxes.  Decks are due to arrive on the 12th of next month; I can ship by the 14th.  I'm preselling them for $40 each, all orders ship on the 20th.  Shipping is $1/deck domestic, $2 to North/South America, $125 to Virgin's Low Earth Orbit Hotel Resort and Habitat, $5 to all other points.  Email in my profile link is active, but PM me if you have questions.


IN SEARCH OF/BUYING:

- Use the tag [ISO] at the start of your thread's title.
- If you're looking to trade for the items you're seeking, use the [TRADE] tag and rules instead.
- Buyers must include full name, a valid email address (your profile's email link is also acceptable), the item(s) you're seeking, the minimum price per item you're willing to pay, and what country you're requesting shipping to.
- An example of an ISO/buying topic's first post:
Title: [ISO] Black Crowns (NZ only)
Text: I'm Joe Sickspok and I'm looking for a brick of Black Crown decks, willing to pay minimum of $20 per deck.  I'm in New Zealand, looking to trade with locals or visitors in-country only.  Email is {email address}.


TRADES:

- Use the tag [TRADE] at the start of your thread's title.  If the item for sale is something you ordered but do not yet have, use the tag [PRETRADE] instead, and give estimated arrival and shipping dates of the item.  Indicate what you are seeking and what you're willing to give for it.
- Traders must include full name, a valid email address (your profile's email link is also acceptable), what country you're shipping from and estimated shipping costs.  The items offered for trade must be listed with all relevant details (quantity, version number, condition, etc.) and a list of some of the items you're seeking for trade.
- The following items are not mandatory for your trade post, but are highly recommended: pictures of the items for trade, a short bio of why you're someone good to trade with (particularly if you're new to trading here), whether you're willing to accept "better offers"/OBO, whether your prices are negotiable.
- The details of your trade and whom you're trading with must be posted in your topic.  If you fail to do so, the Discourse may take NO ACTION in the event of a failed trade.
- When trade details are properly posted, anyone failing to complete a trade will be banned permanently from the Discourse with no chance of reversal and your name will be added to a "Wall of Shame" to be included in the first post of the Testimonials topic, advising people to never trade with you and why.
- An example of a trade topic's first post:
Title: [TRADE] Your v1 Crown decks for my Transducers
Text: I'm Larry Lejursut, trading from US.  Seeking 1st edition Crown decks in all colors (except Gold, I can't afford those, ha ha).  I'm offering all four versions of the Bicycle Transducer decks: Aqua, Fire, Lava, Night Sakura.  Post here if you're seriously interested.  Email in profile is current.  I know I'm a n00b here, but over at UC I'm well-known as a good trader, been active there for two years - feel free to check me out, I have the same handle there as here, Leisure Suit Larry!

AUCTIONS:

{Rules forthcoming}

[Don Boyer]

Due to lack of compliance and self-control among some members, I will be replacing comments on sales and trade threads made by people who have no intent on buying or selling but who instead are adding their personal commentary on what they think sucks about the sale, price offered, how broke you happen to be, whether you think it's a rip-off, etc. - ANYTHING not having to do with the actual buying or selling or trading or that can be perceived as negative or potentially libelous.

The comments will be replaced with "DELETED BY MODERATOR FOR CONTENT."

If you have something you wish to say that's polite, take it to Talk Park.

If you have something you wish to say that's not so polite, take it to the LOLAQ.
IT DOES NOT BELONG IN THE STISO.

Direct comments, negative or positive, about completed sales/trades you participated in can be left both on the topic and (highly recommended) in the Trader Testimonials.

I will also remind everyone that when performing a sale or trade, it's REQUIRED that you post the details in the topic - who are you trading with, what's being traded, etc.  I suggest both parties involved leave comments of this nature - at the least, the second party posting can simply quote and confirm that the terms listed by the first party are correct; by doing this, each party has a post with the details that the other party can't edit.  It can help later if for any reason the deal goes south, particularly if the issue is something worth banning someone over.

[Don Boyer]

New rule:

No one may post in the STISO unless they have at least 25 posts in the other forum topics, not including the Lol-A-Query-Um and Feedback/Support.  The only exception is if they're selling on eBay and wish to post their sale, but that doesn't count toward the 25 posts.

This rule is in place to reduce possible fraudulent trades.  We have the most trouble with traders that have few if any posts.  They swoop in, make offers too good to be true, and they usually are.  By doing this, I'm making people who want to sell here become part of the community first, so we know who they are to some extent before getting involved with a trade with them.  25 posts isn't a very high barrier, but it's high enough that a scammer wouldn't be interested in bothering to try ripping people off here and would move on to somewhere else.

[Angel_magic]

New rule:

No one may post in the STISO unless they have at least 25 posts in the other forum topics, not including the Lol-A-Query-Um and Feedback/Support.  The only exception is if they're selling on eBay and wish to post their sale, but that doesn't count toward the 100 posts.

This rule is in place to reduce possible fraudulent trades.  We have the most trouble with traders that have few if any posts.  They swoop in, make offers too good to be true, and they usually are.  By doing this, I'm making people who want to sell here become part of the community first, so we know who they are to some extent before getting involved with a trade with them.  100 posts isn't a very high barrier, but it's high enough that a scammer wouldn't be interested in bothering to try ripping people off here and would move on to somewhere else.

Wait, 100 or 25 posts? I dont have 100 yet :/

[sr15]

dammit Angel, I demand a refund!

[Don Boyer]

Wait, 100 or 25 posts? I dont have 100 yet :/

I originally set the limit to 100, but Alex was probably taking good traders like you into account when he lowered the requirement to only 25 - he had edited the post but missed replacing some of the "100"s with "25"s.  I've since corrected that; the requirement is 25 posts in other relevant boards.

[Angel_magic]

dammit Angel, I demand a refund!

Har har har

Alex was probably taking good traders like you into account when he lowered the requirement to only 25 - he had edited the post but missed replacing some of the "100"s with "25"s.  I've since corrected that; the requirement is 25 posts in other relevant boards.

Ahh alright, that's good to know. Thanks for the clarification.

[Edward]

Yea I read the rules,, Still not sure what I want to do ,, I have 300 decks , In my eyes,, need to sell some,, ,, Yes I have the good ones,, Base price on confirmed selling on Ebay,, I will not cheat, Market price,, To busy to make a list and to busy to do it ,, What are you looking for and we will see ,, A to Z  sorry only modern decks,,   What is with the smilly face with the carrot .

[Don Boyer]

Yea I read the rules,, Still not sure what I want to do ,, I have 300 decks , In my eyes,, need to sell some,, ,, Yes I have the good ones,, Base price on confirmed selling on Ebay,, I will not cheat, Market price,, To busy to make a list and to busy to do it ,, What are you looking for and we will see ,, A to Z  sorry only modern decks,,   What is with the smilly face with the carrot .

Ed, you're drifting way off-topic here, and not for the first time.  Unless you have a question about the actual rules of this board, take it to either Talk Park or the Lol-A-Query-Um.

[Preformer19]

If I have less than 25 posts, can I still make a thread redirecting the members to an eBay auction of mine?  Or do I still need 25 posts before making a thread about an auction?

I only ask this, because the way the rules are written, it sounds like the rules apply only to auctions being held by members on this site, strictly for this site, and not for auctions outside of the site.

-Pre

[Don Boyer]

If I have less than 25 posts, can I still make a thread redirecting the members to an eBay auction of mine?  Or do I still need 25 posts before making a thread about an auction?

I only ask this, because the way the rules are written, it sounds like the rules apply only to auctions being held by members on this site, strictly for this site, and not for auctions outside of the site.

-Pre

Actually, Pre, it applies there as well.  Each post made in the STISO counts as a post.  If someone posted thirty eBay auctions all at once, they'd have thirty posts, allowing them to post sales topics without ever having any real interaction with the board members.  Sorry about that - but hey, thirty posts doesn't take that long.  (Just remember, no spam posts - they'll end up deleted.)  Join a few conversations, make an "Introduce Yourself" topic...  The idea is for people to know who you are a little before entering into a deal with you, and for you to know them.  You only have twenty more posts to go and there's no shortage of active threads to participate in, plus you might find some gem in an older topic you'd like to revive - reviving old topics is welcome as long as you have something worthwhile to contribute to them.

[Preformer19]

Actually, Pre, it applies there as well.  Each post made in the STISO counts as a post.  If someone posted thirty eBay auctions all at once, they'd have thirty posts, allowing them to post sales topics without ever having any real interaction with the board members.  Sorry about that - but hey, thirty posts doesn't take that long.  (Just remember, no spam posts - they'll end up deleted.)  Join a few conversations, make an "Introduce Yourself" topic...  The idea is for people to know who you are a little before entering into a deal with you, and for you to know them.  You only have twenty more posts to go and there's no shortage of active threads to participate in, plus you might find some gem in an older topic you'd like to revive - reviving old topics is welcome as long as you have something worthwhile to contribute to them.

Thank you for the clarification. 

It does make sense having the minimum imposed so that people can get to know you.

-Pre

[Rob Wright]

This should have a 100 post min first!

25 nonsense post in first 15hrs, 26Th sell'n bricks, 35hrs later still at 26

Just say'n.

[Don Boyer]

This should have a 100 post min first!

25 nonsense post in first 15hrs, 26Th sell'n bricks, 35hrs later still at 26

Just say'n.

Alex preferred 25 posts, thinking that 100 would discourage people from selling here.  An ordinary poster would take a while to get up to 100 posts.

When I do spot people abusing the system, I do one of two things - either extend their first-topic limit to 100 posts or remove spammy posts and drop them in the LOLAQ or somewhere.  LOLAQ posts aren't counted toward your total.  Post there all you want, it won't raise your post count.  There is a separate counter for such posts, but in this version of the board it's kept hidden - though we still have a badge for making 500 LOLAQ posts.  I was the first to earn it!

Any time you feel a seller may be fishy but you want to make the purchase, tell them to do it through eBay.  They post, you immediately buy, and it's done - then you have their Buyer Protection working for you.

(And if it's CrankUP you're referring to, he's really got 33 posts, if you count his LOLAQ posts, which we don't.)

One final note on this - this being a caveat emptor marketplace, it behooves the buyer to do the research.  This kid has no testimonials backing him up and posted all his posts within about a single day.  That right there should set off red flags to any buyer.

I really have to get around to updating the first post of this topic, to make the rules simpler and concise.

[Don Boyer]

I made some changes to the first post, with all the rules in it.  That post SUPERSEDES anything else posted up to this point.  The only noteworthy changes are these:

* The minimum requirement to POST (not just create a new topic) is 25 posts elsewhere and 7 days as a member.  I changed it to include any posting because those posts count towards the 25-post minimum.  A kid could show up, post inquiries to 25 different STISO topics asking about products, then start posting their own sales.  I also added a time minimum due to a recent poster having blazed through 25+ posts on other topics in a single day, posting a sale topic, then posting pretty much nothing else anywhere except his sale topic.  Somehow, that doesn't seem to be in the nature of what we want here by way of trading partners - or board members.

* Auction sales are officially suspended.  They were never really popular in the first place.

[Don Boyer]

New addition to the rules.

I've been noticing many attempts to spam through the minimum requirements.  So I've added a new one that can't be spammed through.

In order to post here, you must have:
1) 25 posts in other topics besides Support and LOLAQ,
2) 7 days as a member, and
3) a reputation rating of at least 1.

This means that if you see spam and rate the poster as a "bad poster", their reputation will drop and they will be ineligible to post in the STISO.  DO NOT ABUSE THIS by slamming someone you don't like.  Do use it, however, when you see a spam hound dropping steaming posts like a dog with the runs.

EDIT: I boosted dtsang's minimum to 100 for spamming.
NEW EDIT: In light of how I deleted some of his spam posts, I've decided to go easy on him and bring his new post minimum down to 50.

[xela]

By the way, when you sign up here, you automatically get reputation upon making your first post. So the only way you could possibly not meet the reputation requirement is if people hate your guts.

If you do feel that people are abusing you via the rep system, PM me and if it's true that you're being targeted, I will reset your rep to +1.

[Don Boyer]

By the way, when you sign up here, you automatically get reputation upon making your first post. So the only way you could possibly not meet the reputation requirement is if people hate your guts.

If you do feel that people are abusing you via the rep system, PM me and if it's true that you're being targeted, I will reset your rep to +1.

...and these are precisely the reasons I chose this rule.  If you see a n00b making genuine-article spam posts, please feel free to rank him or her as a bad poster (in fact, I encourage it), but if you just don't agree with the person or think they smell strange or look funny, let it be.  We're all sharing the same playground, right?    It's very easy to identify one's posts as spam or at least suspect when they make 25 posts in a single day, all of them pretty empty and vacuous, then post #26 of the day is a new sale topic in the STISO...

[Don Boyer]

It's been brought to my attention that the STISO rules were a little invasive as regards privacy.  I'm listening to the membership and have made the following changes.

You are no longer required to post your email address or full name on an STISO topic.
You are no longer required to post transactions in an STISO topic.
You ARE required to conduct your business via PM and give your seller/buyer/trader your full name, mailing address, email address and an explanation of the terms of the deal.
You ARE required to retain your PMs both sent and received in regard to your transaction; in the event of a dispute, they will be reviewed by forum staff to determine if there's a problem and what will be done as either a resolution or a punishment, if applicable.

Transactions taking place on eBay are exempt.
EBay transactions that turn into private arrangements outside of eBay are NOT exempt.

[Don Boyer]

Rule tweak: as the LOLAQ no longer exists, spam posts made to reach mandatory minimums get removed at management's discretion, not sent to the LOLAQ.

[Don Boyer]

I've eased up the rules slightly on posts made to this board.  The minimum requirement now apply to creating topics only.

All posts made to this board do not apply to your post total any longer.

[Don Boyer]

New rule added - created a new tag for informing everyone about eBay sales being held by a third party, not yourself: [FOUND ON EBAY].  Read the rules applying to this tag, please.

[John B.]

So I have a question, say there is a new member, and he is friends (in the real world, not just over the internet) with a member of the forum, who has been here a while. Would they still have to wait a week, and make 25 post? Just wondering because I friend of mine might be swinging by with some magic stuff he will be selling.

[Don Boyer]

So I have a question, say there is a new member, and he is friends (in the real world, not just over the internet) with a member of the forum, who has been here a while. Would they still have to wait a week, and make 25 post? Just wondering because I friend of mine might be swinging by with some magic stuff he will be selling.

The only way to short-cut the minimum requirements in an acceptable fashion would be to post his items for sale as if they were your own.  You would be responsible for any negative end results that may occur, if any.  Basically, you'd have to be willing to vouch for him in a way that can impact future testimonials made about you, whether they're positive or negative.  You friend wouldn't be "getting the credit" for good sales, and wouldn't be the accountable party if things went sideways and pear-shaped.

Alternately, he's welcome to post in eBay, where sales are pretty much guaranteed for the buyer, and you could post a [FOUND ON EBAY] topic here for him.  That way the responsibility doesn't land on you.

Finally, he could simply create an account here, become a member of the community by posting 25 or more legit, non-spam posts over a week or more and then offer his wares for sale - and you could even promote it by saying what a great person/seller/magician/etc. he is.  If he does nothing to be rated either a good or a bad poster, his rep, by dint of the number of posts made, will automatically rise to 1.

That's important, that last one - it's the main reason why such minimums were put into place.  When dealing with strangers in a forum where people only know you from the words you post, it's important for people to want to understand you more and know more about you before entering into a deal where valuables cross paths in the mail (or in the negative cases, don't cross paths at all).  It's all part of building a reputation (and I'm not talking about the rep number score, but real reputation) and letting people know you're a decent guy and less likely to defraud them.

[John B.]

yea I was thinking those same things but I figured I would just ask.

[Don Boyer]

Guys and girls, there's a rule in the first post regarding eBay sales/auctions about giving a brief description of what's up for bid/for sale.  Dropping a link and a few nice words isn't really enough - it tells no one anything about what's being offered and that can hurt your chances of getting the best possible price.  Some people won't bother to click through the link unless they know there's something of interest on the other side.  It's not just a rule, it's a good sales tactic - please add descriptions!

The link below goes to a topic that is an example of what I'm talking about - the first post said absolutely nothing about what's being sold other than the title (semi-rare decks) and a generic description (they "might interest some of you.").  This could describe hundreds of different decks, perhaps even thousands!  In the second post, I threw in all the missing details that would tell anyone reading about it here about whether or not it's worth clicking through to eBay - names of decks, opening or current bid and the approximate closing time of the auctions.

http://www.playingcardforum.com/sales-trades-isos/(ebay)-some-semi-rare-decks-in-auction/

Try to imagine how much interest you would have based on the first post alone, then imagine how much more interest you might have if all the information in those two posts came in the first post (assuming of course that these are desirable decks to you).  I think you'll find the extra info provides extra incentive to push that mouse and click that link.  The more people that take a look, the more likely you'll find buyers/bidders - and for auctions, that also means a higher price!

Rui, please don't take this negatively.  Your topic happened to be the most recent good example I found, and I'm certain I could have found more from others - but hey, it's also free publicity!

Some rules are annoying - this rule will actually HELP YOU SELL YOUR STUFF!

[Don Boyer]

New rules added:

* Never post in someone else's ISO topic that you're seeking the same item.  It's rude.
* Unless the poster specifically states otherwise, the default currency here is the US dollar and the default payment method is PayPal (or cash, in cases where the exchange is performed in person).

[Don Boyer]

Rule edit - when posting eBay sales other than your own, use the "Great Deals on the Web and Retail" sticky topic.