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is it just me or do ohio decks "pop" more?

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is it just me or do ohio decks "pop" more?
« on: June 10, 2016, 07:48:36 PM »
 

darkinertia

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i was spoiled when i got into cardistry since i was practically born into royalty, ive been flourishing since 2012 but my brothers been doing it since he was a kid so when i got into it, i got whatever deck i wanted. uv500s,wynns,watermelons,stingers,arrcos,etc... the one thing he taught me was to learn to deal with the cards popping (maybe warping is a better term?), basically after a while of doing say a fan a certain way, eventually the deck will start to take that place and pop like one of those little rubber toys you put on the floor and flies up.

but ever since i started buying my own decks from kentucky, ive noticed they almost never pop, why is that? is that a good or bad thing? maybe it comes from the abundance of recycled paper in newer decks? i never understood the science behind it
 

Re: is it just me or do ohio decks "pop" more?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2016, 03:23:31 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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There's a lot of factors regarding why a deck will get that slight warp to it - it's not an exact science and no one's done careful studies of it, though heavier stocks like casino-grade Bees will warp less than Bicycles or similarly thin stocks.  The laminate on the surface of the paper could be a factor as well, in that it seals the paper and doesn't allow for the easy transfer of air and moisture except at the card's edge where it's been cut.

If you have a deck that's not as flat as you'd like it, the most common cure for this is storing it in a Porper clip or a similarly-made deck clip that applies pressure to the front and back of the deck.  I also have a deck press - these were common over a century ago but are more scarce now, though magic shops will carry them for magicians to take the warp out of expensive gaffed/trick decks.  Good deck presses are hard to find - the best are the old-school models that can hold a dozen or so decks at once, with a single central screw mechanism used to apply uniform pressure across the card surface of all the cards at once.  (Mine only holds two, and has screws at each corner instead of a single, large screw to provide even pressure.)  It can probably apply more force than a Porper clip, but the cards have to be removed from the boxes - it will crush and destroy the boxes.

The reason they were popular in the latter part of the 19th century was that playing cards were still rather expensive, when you factor in what people were earning in pay those days.  In small-town saloons throughout the Western US, often players couldn't afford their own cards and wouldn't trust someone else, so the barkeep would have a supply of decks on hand for patrons to use.  At the end of the night, the barkeep would gather up the decks (without boxes - some companies were still wrapping their decks in paper, and again, the press would only crush them) and place them in the press, using wooden separators to keep them apart from each other.  The pressure kept the cards flat and protected them against excess moisture leeching into the paper, thus helping them last longer.

As cards got cheaper, deck presses fell out of favor - when a deck went bad, you simply bought a new one.  They were still pretty useful in very humid climates, but even there the cost of replacement cards just got cheap to the point that almost no one bothered using presses any more.  It's a relatively recent phenomenon that there are such expensive decks of cards becoming more widely available, so perhaps it's time for a revival of the gadget - but as of yet, that hasn't happened.  I wish it would already - the cost of a single deck press to protect a dozen decks would probably be less than the cost of a dozen Porper clips to do the same job.  Last time I checked, a Porper is around $25 for the name-brand item rather than a knockoff, so if a well-made one-dozen deck press is significantly less than $300, it could be a popular item for collectors, cardists and magicians.
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Re: is it just me or do ohio decks "pop" more?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2016, 02:57:06 AM »
 

darkinertia

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oh wow this is interesting ive never heard of a deck press before, this actually looks like something that can be made fairly simple. ive always stayed away from porpers because if there was a deck that i wanted to protect, usually id want to protect the tuck also lol ive usually gotten around it just by faroing the card face into each other and jam it back into the tuck for a while...ive been doing that a lot lately since humidity is killer here in virginia right now.

the thing im really interested in is why the decks that seem to warp the most are usually the ohio, and the older the more easily they warp. my watermelons arent really that bad, but i got a brand new sealed bee deck that warps a little bit, then i have an old streamline from the late 80s that warps more. the one thing i really dont like about kentucky cards as much as ohio is the finish being super slippery compared to ohios so maybe they go crazy on the finish and coating and that stops the cards from warping as much...its just always been interesting to me,especially since i always do the recommended things like washing and drying your hands, the older decks seem to take in the moisture a lot more
 

Re: is it just me or do ohio decks "pop" more?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2016, 03:52:48 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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oh wow this is interesting ive never heard of a deck press before, this actually looks like something that can be made fairly simple. ive always stayed away from porpers because if there was a deck that i wanted to protect, usually id want to protect the tuck also lol ive usually gotten around it just by faroing the card face into each other and jam it back into the tuck for a while...ive been doing that a lot lately since humidity is killer here in virginia right now.

the thing im really interested in is why the decks that seem to warp the most are usually the ohio, and the older the more easily they warp. my watermelons arent really that bad, but i got a brand new sealed bee deck that warps a little bit, then i have an old streamline from the late 80s that warps more. the one thing i really dont like about kentucky cards as much as ohio is the finish being super slippery compared to ohios so maybe they go crazy on the finish and coating and that stops the cards from warping as much...its just always been interesting to me,especially since i always do the recommended things like washing and drying your hands, the older decks seem to take in the moisture a lot more

Consider for a moment the science that might be at play here.  Most paper documents become dry and brittle over time, losing their moisture, unless they're in a dangerously humid environment (where the opposite occurs and the papers fall apart or become moldy) or they're in an environment specifically controlled to prevent moisture loss while not adding additional moisture - a neutral environment.  Plastics applied in a thin layer - like the coatings in all US-made playing cards up to around 2009, when the Federal government mandated that all card manufacturers use more eco-friendly materials, including starch-based coatings - have a tendency to shrink over time.  Just look at old cellophane on card tuck boxes, especially ones that have been shrink-wrapped using heat; it constricts the box over time and even tears, unless it's been kept in a carefully climate-controlled environment, which few people do.

It could simply be a general fact of aging that unless kept in carefully-controlled conditions, cards will warp to some degree, especially those with plastic coatings - and again, all modern coatings from US factories up to 2009 were plastic and the ones from other countries probably still are, for the most part.  "Plastic coated" gets tossed around like a curse word because there are many cheap decks that use the phrase, but until that law, virtually all card laminates were plastics of one kind or another - even the best-made decks from the finest companies.  "Plastic" is a very broad term covering a lot of different kinds of chemicals commonly used in manufacturing these days, some radically different from each other.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 03:53:56 AM by Don Boyer »
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