Help wanted: Warped Cards and Storage?

[VortexHead]

So after boxing some decks and just checking out my collection I started to notice a number of decks to be eaither very warped or ever so slightly warped, it seems to have happened to a number of newer decks, those being, the style deck, plaid decks, infinity decks, black crowns and a number of other decks one being the s&m v5 . I dont know what to put it down to, I normally keep all my decks under my bed in cardboard boxes, shoe boxes or plastic clear boxes, I did used to use a money safe but I was told the metal could cause a change in tempreature inside so I stopped. The only notable thing I did diferently recently is to use a varity box from dnd to display some decks, I put them as standing on their sides as they came in the variety boxes initially.

I'm really not sure what to do, the weather in the UK has been very hot the last few days but seeing as though the cards are in a dark place under my bed I would assume it's fairly cool and they would be fine. I've tried the fridge method to get them de-warped and it did work on a infinity deck but I think it's going back to it's warped state.

Here's a few photos of the boxes they are stored in, am I doing anything wrong or is it just a case not really being able to do much about it? I appreciate any advice.

[Evan]

Try putting the warped decks under some heavy things like textbooks or something.
Also, you may want to buy a porper clip or deck press because those will usually fix a warped deck.

[VortexHead]

I've got a porper so I've done as you suggested. Do you see any issues with the way I'm stacking the decks, on top of each other?

[NathanCanadas]

Stacking them may ruin them. What I do is have them in shoe boxes in a close space. I fit 10 per row, making it so that they are together tight enough for them to prevent from warping, but not too tight as to damage the boxes. Also this protects them from humidity.

[VortexHead]

Stacking them may ruin them. What I do is have them in shoe boxes in a close space. I fit 10 per row, making it so that they are together tight enough for them to prevent from warping, but not too tight as to damage the boxes. Also this protects them from humidity.

So stacking them the way I am may ruin them? If so any idea why?

[NathanCanadas]

Stacking them may ruin them. What I do is have them in shoe boxes in a close space. I fit 10 per row, making it so that they are together tight enough for them to prevent from warping, but not too tight as to damage the boxes. Also this protects them from humidity.

So stacking them the way I am may ruin them? If so any idea why?

You are applying pressure with GRAVITY which I heard warps the cards and boxes. Weight does not help.

[VortexHead]

Stacking them may ruin them. What I do is have them in shoe boxes in a close space. I fit 10 per row, making it so that they are together tight enough for them to prevent from warping, but not too tight as to damage the boxes. Also this protects them from humidity.

So stacking them the way I am may ruin them? If so any idea why?

You are applying pressure with GRAVITY which I heard warps the cards and boxes. Weight does not help.

Okay so more like this:

[Aaron]

No stacking won't ruin them, why would it? I wouldn't keep them under your bed though, some people sweat while asleep or give off humidity in their rooms, could have some effect on it. I would say stacking them would be better then putting them sideways, just because then gravity holds them down.

[NathanCanadas]

Stacking them may ruin them. What I do is have them in shoe boxes in a close space. I fit 10 per row, making it so that they are together tight enough for them to prevent from warping, but not too tight as to damage the boxes. Also this protects them from humidity.

So stacking them the way I am may ruin them? If so any idea why?

You are applying pressure with GRAVITY which I heard warps the cards and boxes. Weight does not help.

Okay so more like this:

Yes, that is what I mean.
@Aaron - Another problem with stacking is that if they are stacked without separation, the humidity transfers from one deck to the other and damages them much more quickly. Also the cards may not be arranged neatly. Also by stacking them you can never stack perfectly well so some sides of the deck will receive much more pressure quickly and that will warp them. There was a thread somewhere I believe regarding someone who had tried stacking his decks and had had a very poor result. All of his decks were damaged. So he reverted to arranging them like he previously did.

[loldudex2]

This may seem weird, but I recently found out that the bottom of a Velveta Cheese box (yes, you read that correctly) can hold a brick of cards VERY snugly if you stand them up, and due to the tightness, it may help prevent warping.

[NathanCanadas]

This may seem weird, but I recently found out that the bottom ov a Velveta Cheese box (yes, you read that correctly) can hold a brick of cards VERY snugly if you stand them up, and due to the tightness, it may help prevent warping.

Haha useful fun fact! I actually just looked at my shoe box, and, little correction: mine fits VERY snugly 11 decks standing up, and exactly 5 rows widthwise. Which means I can keep the cards from warping while not damaging the boxes.

[VortexHead]

Thanks for the advice Nathan, I'm kind of wary of changing them around purely because of keeping them stacked the way I have for so long and I would never have thought it would be an issue as thats how decks come from brick boxes but after watching kitaro's deck collection video it seems as though he does a similar thing but has them on the sides instead of upright so I think I'll try it for now. Any idea where the thread was that you mentioned to Aaron?

And thanks for your adivce Aaron, maybe keeping them elsewhere instead of under my bed might also help. I was thinking like you about the gravity helping more so than anything but maybe not, not to sure really.

Also if anyone else has any thoughts that would be appreciated.

[NathanCanadas]

Thanks for the advice Nathan, I'm kind of wary of changing them around purely because of keeping them stacked the way I have for so long and I would never have thought it would be an issue as thats how decks come from brick boxes but after watching kitaro's deck collection video it seems as though he does a similar thing but has them on the sides instead of upright so I think I'll try it for now. Any idea where the thread was that you mentioned to Aaron?

And thanks for your adivce Aaron, maybe keeping them elsewhere instead of under my bed might also help. I was thinking like you about the gravity helping more so than anything but maybe not, not to sure really.

Also if anyone else has any thoughts that would be appreciated.

I'm still looking for it. I remember the title was something like "pressure and moisture" or "pressure and humidity". It was someone complaining about them having made a bad mistake of stacking their cards in a humid place. In the meantime, here are some links that might be worth looking at:
http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1429.msg21921;topicseen#msg21921
http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1075.msg16487#msg16487
Hope this helps,
Nathan

[DelMagic]

I would be amazed if body-generated humidity made it down through a mattress and box spring and significantly affected the environment under a bed such that it warped sealed decks.

Though under a bed you may have less air movement, I would think it would not be significantly different than the room, unless....there were an air vent which may be blowing under the bed. Perhaps that would really affect it. That could lead to large temperature & humidity swings when the heated or cooled air is blowing. Just a guess.

[VortexHead]

Thanks for the advice Nathan, I'm kind of wary of changing them around purely because of keeping them stacked the way I have for so long and I would never have thought it would be an issue as thats how decks come from brick boxes but after watching kitaro's deck collection video it seems as though he does a similar thing but has them on the sides instead of upright so I think I'll try it for now. Any idea where the thread was that you mentioned to Aaron?

And thanks for your adivce Aaron, maybe keeping them elsewhere instead of under my bed might also help. I was thinking like you about the gravity helping more so than anything but maybe not, not to sure really.

Also if anyone else has any thoughts that would be appreciated.

I'm still looking for it. I remember the title was something like "pressure and moisture" or "pressure and humidity". It was someone complaining about them having made a bad mistake of stacking their cards in a humid place. In the meantime, here are some links that might be worth looking at:
http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1429.msg21921;topicseen#msg21921
http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1075.msg16487#msg16487
Hope this helps,
Nathan

Thanks Nathan, I'll give them a read. I'm going to get some zzz's now as it's nearly 4am in th UK and I need to get up in a few hours for work

I found a tarot card forum and people were suggesting the same thing as one person was experiencing my problem. I'll also look at how other people store things like records, it might be of help.

Thanks again

[VortexHead]

I would be amazed if body-generated humidity made it down through a mattress and box spring and significantly affected the environment under a bed such that it warped sealed decks.

Though under a bed you may have less air movement, I would think it would not be significantly different than the room, unless....there were an air vent which may be blowing under the bed. Perhaps that would really affect it. That could lead to large temperature & humidity swings when the heated or cooled air is blowing. Just a guess.

Hi DelMagic, nice to see you here Yeh it seems unlikely, I cant imagine it getting to warm under there and I have no air vents under my bed

[NathanCanadas]

I would be amazed if body-generated humidity made it down through a mattress and box spring and significantly affected the environment under a bed such that it warped sealed decks.

Though under a bed you may have less air movement, I would think it would not be significantly different than the room, unless....there were an air vent which may be blowing under the bed. Perhaps that would really affect it. That could lead to large temperature & humidity swings when the heated or cooled air is blowing. Just a guess.

Hi DelMagic, nice to see you here Yeh it seems unlikely, I cant imagine it getting to warm under there and I have no air vents under my bed

Under a bed, the temperature might not be different, but the humidity will be, for sure. I don't have much time to explain but:
1) You are closer to the floor
2) You are beneath the bed, keeping the humidity trapped.
If you are experiencing problems, why not give a shot to our advice?

[Don Boyer]

If there's anyone who knows about how to store playing cards, it's Lee Asher.

http://www.leeasher.com/playground/articles/how_to_store_your_playing_card_collection.html

http://hwcdn.net/u7n2x8t6/cds/JerrysNugget/jerrys_nugget_card_care_guide.pdf

All the tips given to care for Jerry's Nugget decks would apply - except maybe the part about storing your decks in a safe deposit box in a bank vault...

[VortexHead]

Woke up this morning to find style deck even worse and v6 warping, I had them stacked as suggested, any other ideas. Also does anyone know what the temperature is likely to be in a smalmoney safe, the metal, will it cause more heat inside if it's hot outside?

[Don Boyer]

Woke up this morning to find style deck even worse and v6 warping, I had them stacked as suggested, any other ideas. Also does anyone know what the temperature is likely to be in a smalmoney safe, the metal, will it cause more heat inside if it's hot outside?

No more so than storing them inside a bank vault would.

Best bet, if you choose that route, is to get a safe that has water-resistant door seals.  Get some silica desiccant packets and toss them into the safe with the cards.  Then store that safe somewhere relatively cool and shaded.

If you opt not to spend that much cash on an expensive and heavy safe, just get an inexpensive dehumidifier for your room where you keep them.  Placing the decks on a shelf or in a cabinet against an interior wall of the house that isn't the wet wall should be fine.  I didn't have that luxury with my own cabinet, living in a small one-bedroom with two other people, but there's enough space between the wall and the cabinet that they're fine, and I keep the window heavily draped most of the time for privacy anyway, especially since I sleep in the daytime, so little sunlight gets in to ruin the colors of the decks.

BTW: I never heard of stacking cards vertically being better than laying them flat.  Asher's own collection, as seen in photos on his site, has cards stored laying flat and they seemed just fine to me.

[loldudex2]

To keep moisture away, keep the silica gel packets that come with electronics, and keep them in the container that you keep your cards.

[hazofhorsham]

Stacking them one on top of each other shouldn't warp them - gravity exerts a force magnitude of 9.81 (down) - and a deck of cards is about 100g so the force on the second to top deck would be .981N, the third 1.961N and so on down to the bottom deck. Even eleven decks stacked on top of each other would only be 9.81N - which is a miniscule force. Also warping is caused by deterioration of the card fibers. Stacking them, if anything, would just compound the lowest cards preventing warping (it's like putting a heavy book on). Chances are the change in stacking won't affect things - It would be the humidity of the area because if water gets at those cards... That's when danger happens. I used to keep my decks in sandwich bags which helped but was pointless (I am uk too) - have you heard of lock and locks? The lunch boxes? They are water tight, and air tight which means humidity proof. Get a few of those and stack or file the decks in ( I personally go for whatever fits the best) Hope you recover whatever decks you can

[VortexHead]

Thanks Don for the links, I'm pretty sure I've seen the ashers jerrys nuggets pdf before but not the other one so thanks for that, I agree with you and hazofhorsham in that I cant imagine that stacking them on top of each other will really cause any real damage, up until now I've never thought it would be an issue, plus it's the way decks come in brick boxes that are in some cases stored like that for very long periods and I imagine they are fine. I also experienced the decks warping yesterday when they were upright so I'm slightly worried about keeping them like that now, I also spoke to another forum member who said some of his decks warped due to them being in an upright position. I've since moved all the decks into another room and they are behind cupboard doors in a cooler place, hopefuly this helps, I've also used the fridge method to help de-warp some decks but some just wont change so it looks like I'm stuck with a number of warped ones but I'll just have to get used to using them like that. I've also done as a few and loldudex2 said and thrown in a few silican gel packets I found into a few of the boxes, hoepfully that helps a little.

Thanks again for all the help guys, it's a worry when a hobby you enjoy is getting spoilt like this.

[NathanCanadas]

Thanks Don for the links, I'm pretty sure I've seen the ashers jerrys nuggets pdf before but not the other one so thanks for that, I agree with you and hazofhorsham in that I cant imagine that stacking them on top of each other will really cause any real damage, up until now I've never thought it would be an issue, plus it's the way decks come in brick boxes that are in some cases stored like that for very long periods and I imagine they are fine. I also experienced the decks warping yesterday when they were upright so I'm slightly worried about keeping them like that now, I also spoke to another forum member who said some of his decks warped due to them being in an upright position. I've since moved all the decks into another room and they are behind cupboard doors in a cooler place, hopefuly this helps, I've also used the fridge method to help de-warp some decks but some just wont change so it looks like I'm stuck with a number of warped ones but I'll just have to get used to using them like that. I've also done as a few and loldudex2 said and thrown in a few silican gel packets I found into a few of the boxes, hoepfully that helps a little.

Thanks again for all the help guys, it's a worry when a hobby you enjoy is getting spoilt like this.

Well if you don't believe gravity is a problem then maybe you should try something else we have suggested. If you are having problems with your current way of stocking them then you shouldn't expect things to go better unless you make a change.

[VortexHead]

Thanks Don for the links, I'm pretty sure I've seen the ashers jerrys nuggets pdf before but not the other one so thanks for that, I agree with you and hazofhorsham in that I cant imagine that stacking them on top of each other will really cause any real damage, up until now I've never thought it would be an issue, plus it's the way decks come in brick boxes that are in some cases stored like that for very long periods and I imagine they are fine. I also experienced the decks warping yesterday when they were upright so I'm slightly worried about keeping them like that now, I also spoke to another forum member who said some of his decks warped due to them being in an upright position. I've since moved all the decks into another room and they are behind cupboard doors in a cooler place, hopefuly this helps, I've also used the fridge method to help de-warp some decks but some just wont change so it looks like I'm stuck with a number of warped ones but I'll just have to get used to using them like that. I've also done as a few and loldudex2 said and thrown in a few silican gel packets I found into a few of the boxes, hoepfully that helps a little.

Thanks again for all the help guys, it's a worry when a hobby you enjoy is getting spoilt like this.

Well if you don't believe gravity is a problem then maybe you should try something else we have suggested. If you are having problems with your current way of stocking them then you shouldn't expect things to go better unless you make a change.

It's not that I dont believe the gravity issue but I just cant say how accurate it is as many stack decks in different ways and they are fine and I do think I've taken what people have said on board but I still may use the method you suggested in the future and stack them upright if I get bad results with my current set up. Like I said in my previous post I've put them in a different room and in a different enviroment, they are no longer under my bed, I'm using a closet and the room I'm using is slightly cooler, the only two options in terms of stacking them are the way you suggested or the other way I already was but my feeling is that maybe it was just the enviroment they were in and not the way they were stacked but saying that I did try your method but unfortuantly the same thing happened so my guess was it had to be the room. I appreciate your help and didn't mean to disregard the advice of standing them in an upright position but after talking to a few poeple and seeing as though the warping only occured the last week or so since it's been hot I have doubts its the way they were stacked.

Thanks again