Author (Read 16581 times)

Anthony · « **Reply #50 on:** October 03, 2014, 12:17:14 PM »

You know what, I'm diggin' that Alvin

alvinhy · « **Reply #51 on:** October 03, 2014, 01:08:18 PM »

Quote from: Anthony on October 03, 2014, 12:17:14 PM

You know what, I'm diggin' that Alvin

Hey Anthony! thanks a lot! The courts are almost complete.
PS: I replied to your email yesterday.

Latest court: King of Hearts

Don Boyer · « **Reply #52 on:** October 03, 2014, 04:24:45 PM »

I kinda miss the human courts, but these are pretty cool as well.

If only there weren't so many dragon decks all coming out at once - it's going to be tough getting attention and market share to all of them.

Nurul · « **Reply #53 on:** October 03, 2014, 04:44:51 PM »

This isn't a dragon deck. It's based around the four beasts. There's an equal amount of dragon, turtle, tiger and vermilion bird in this deck.
When it launches, I'm pretty sure Alvin will make it clear of the kind of deck it is.
I can understand why people might think it's a dragon based deck, given the AoS being a dragon, and when people think mythical chinese creature, they think dragon.
I'll be lending a hand writing up a little history on these creatures and presenting it in a book form along with his art.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #54 on:** October 03, 2014, 04:57:28 PM »

Quote from: Nurul on October 03, 2014, 04:44:51 PM

This isn't a dragon deck though. It's based around the four beasts. There's an equal amount of dragon, turtle, tiger and vermilion bird in this deck.
When it launches, I'm pretty sure Alvin will make it clear of the kind of deck it is. I can understand why people might think it's a dragon based deck, given the AoS being a dragon, and when people think mythical chinese creature, they think dragon.
I'll be lending a hand writing up a little history on these creatures and presenting it in a book form along with his art.

I know that, you know that - but will everyone taking a quick glance at the project know that? I never hear people outside of Asia or Asia-philes think "mythical Chinese creature" - they just think "dragon".

It's something you need to make clear as crystal from the very beginning of the launch, or people will just say "dragon deck".

Nurul · « **Reply #55 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:08:12 PM »

Well, four beasts will be in the title, hopefully that will engage people to read up on it a little more

I'm curious to know what others think. When you first glance at the box or title, what comes to mind?

alvinhy · « **Reply #56 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:42:26 PM »

I think Don is right, I need to emphasise its not jus a dragon deck.
Need to focus on it as Chinese FOUR BEASTS.

Maybe when I showcase the deck in kickstarted I will put more elements like the turtle tiger and bird rather than the dragon.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #57 on:** October 04, 2014, 12:16:43 AM »

Quote from: Nurul on October 03, 2014, 05:08:12 PM

Well, four beasts will be in the title, hopefully that will engage people to read up on it a little more

I'm curious to know what others think. When you first glance at the box or title, what comes to mind?

If you're expecting Americans to read, you've got two strikes against you already!

There's truth to the statement, "If you want to keep a secret, write it in a book," particularly when applied to modern American culture.

All that comes to mind when I see the current box design is "Asian culture" - it looks like an Asian design, but that's as far as that goes. Any beast imagery is way too small to grab the attention of a casual observer.

Quote from: alvinhy on October 03, 2014, 05:42:26 PM

I think Don is right, I need to emphasise its not jus a dragon deck.
Need to focus on it as Chinese FOUR BEASTS.

Maybe when I showcase the deck in kickstarted I will put more elements like the turtle tiger and bird rather than the dragon.

I would suggest taking a design that's closer to your diptych joker and making THAT your box art - and make it big and colorful. Then we can see the art up front and know it's not just dragons.

A landscape-oriented piece of art like that would look gorgeous on a side-loading tuck box!

Picture this: a four-creature art spread on the box side without the tuck opening - it looks great and is entirely unbroken. No words, no nothing, just that beautiful art spread. On the opposite side, the tuck flap that's exposed can have the deck's title, while the remainder of that side of the box can have the card back design on it.

I think it would look gorgeous.

In fact, if you ask me, this entire design could do with some more color. I love the art, but in just two colors it comes across as a bit flat.

Rob Wright · « **Reply #58 on:** October 04, 2014, 01:02:39 AM »

The first time I saw this deck concept, I really liked it. I still think it's great, but I do see some of what Don is talking about. The whole Dragon concept doesn't bother me. I would expect that with an Asian themed deck.

This is what I see at first glance of the tuck
The Dragon and the Tiger look almost alike. I didn't see a tiger at first- possible fix maybe some thin lines on the Tiger.
The Bird looks a little like a flying Dragon. Not sure what to do there
Forgive me for being ignorant about Asian creatures, but is it suppose to be a Turtle/Snake hybrid creature, or a Turtle with snakes on it? Kinda looks like loch ness to me on the tuck.

The KOH looks like Dragon tails with talons- JMO.

alvinhy · « **Reply #59 on:** October 04, 2014, 07:13:39 AM »

Thanks for all the feedback!

I think some work will need to be done on the box to make it more intricate.
The imprints of the beasts on the front of the deck are actually the historical prints.

They were first found printed on stone in 2BC i think.
So its a matter of keeping it historically accurate or not.

Also the turtle, yes there is a snake wrapped around it, i need to check the history books why this is though lol

I'll be tweaking a lot of the design for the court cards to make it look better.

Anthony · « **Reply #60 on:** October 07, 2014, 02:40:43 PM »

Really liking the work going into this Alvin, I think your research and "Tweeks" will pay off in the end, nice job!

PurpleIce · « **Reply #61 on:** October 07, 2014, 03:36:05 PM »

Quote from: Don Boyer on October 04, 2014, 12:16:43 AM

In fact, if you ask me, this entire design could do with some more color. I love the art, but in just two colors it comes across as a bit flat.

I actually think just having two colours look great. It is a little flat, but you probably can play with the different tones of the colour to create more depth in the creatures, but i prefer to stick it to just 2 hues rather than a whole bunch of colours personally.

If not, you can consider using the colours that each beast represents, so you have 1 colour for each suit...but i really still prefer the 2.

I also hope you can somehow make the chinese characters on the tuck more prominent, and the characters of the beast into the courts, hopefully without making it look to cluttered.

I'm sure you can find most information on google, but if you need any help, just drop me a message and i can check with my wife about all the stories behind all these. She should know a thing or two.

alvinhy · « **Reply #62 on:** October 07, 2014, 07:53:33 PM »

Quote from: PurpleIce on October 07, 2014, 03:36:05 PM

Quote from: Don Boyer on October 04, 2014, 12:16:43 AM

In fact, if you ask me, this entire design could do with some more color. I love the art, but in just two colors it comes across as a bit flat.

I actually think just having two colours look great. It is a little flat, but you probably can play with the different tones of the colour to create more depth in the creatures, but i prefer to stick it to just 2 hues rather than a whole bunch of colours personally.

If not, you can consider using the colours that each beast represents, so you have 1 colour for each suit...but i really still prefer the 2.

I also hope you can somehow make the chinese characters on the tuck more prominent, and the characters of the beast into the courts, hopefully without making it look to cluttered.

I'm sure you can find most information on google, but if you need any help, just drop me a message and i can check with my wife about all the stories behind all these. She should know a thing or two.

I was thinking of having some Chinese characters for each beast court card down the side, might add some flare to the design.

Also, I am trying to work out the costs of things here. Anyone know what the average deck of cards cost?

Made a nice little table of what I'm aiming for. Do you think the price is reasonable?
This is for US includes shipping.

Rob Wright · « **Reply #63 on:** October 08, 2014, 01:31:29 AM »

I would say that is real fare pricing. Not that I want to see higher prices, but I would say there is a little room on the higher tiers for more money.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #64 on:** October 08, 2014, 01:50:05 AM »

Quote from: alvinhy on October 07, 2014, 07:53:33 PM

I was thinking of having some Chinese characters for each beast court card down the side, might add some flare to the design.

Also, I am trying to work out the costs of things here. Anyone know what the average deck of cards cost?

Made a nice little table of what I'm aiming for. Do you think the price is reasonable?
This is for US includes shipping.

The average deck? Are you planning on making an average deck?

When it comes to production cost, there's no one-size-fits-all cost to make a deck. Anything from the added features (or lack thereof) to your relationship with the printer can impact your end-result per-deck cost on a given project. You might get a quote from a printer that's different from what someone else will get from the same printer for what is essentially the same project in terms of features and processes required to make each design into small, rectangular, cellophane-wrapped stacks of paper.

The price points you listed in the mini-spreadsheet look fine to me, especially as you get into discounting the larger-volume orders on a per-deck basis. I'm presuming, of course that the first-listed values for 1 and 2 decks are your early bird offers.

The key here is you need the price to cover the cost of the deck itself and both the manpower and supplies needed to turn a number of decks into a package ready to travel - and naturally, you want a profit margin to fit in there as well. Calculate your costs - how much does it cost to send a pack of cards via First Class Mail within the US? A single pack of cards in the tuck is typically in the ballpark of 3.7 inches by 2.7 inches by 0.7 inches. The pack itself weighs 3.3 ounces, but factoring in packing material weight means you should calculate it at a minimum of 5 or 6 ounces per pack in a given package, depending on the materials you plan to use. Go through some of the deck orders you've received, think of the condition in which the decks arrived and what was used to pack them. Try packing some of your own decks using similar methods to the best-packed, least-damaged playing cards you received, see what the package weighs, then work on calculating costs for whatever materials you used. If you have an incoming order or two, weigh them before you open them!

PurpleIce · « **Reply #65 on:** October 08, 2014, 04:54:45 AM »

Quote from: Rob Wright on October 08, 2014, 01:31:29 AM

I would say that is real fare pricing. Not that I want to see higher prices, but I would say there is a little room on the higher tiers for more money.

fare?fair? I would say the pricing is reasonable. I'm not going to say anymore because i would buy your decks at these prices, and don't want to encourage you to increase any further.

But as Don said, do factor in all your costs, especially packaging. It never hurts to protect the decks a little more, especially for international customers with packages that go through a lot more throwing around.

I personally have a mental list of people who does good packaging and shitty ones, no matter how much they claim it works for the rest. I mean seriously, one look at the package without opening and i can tell how good or bad my cards are going to turn out. Lets just say, the good packers are definitely one i would tend to support more and just skip some of the real shitty ones.

alvinhy · « **Reply #66 on:** October 08, 2014, 06:20:02 AM »

Thanks guys!
I have looked into the cost of shipping and price of the deck (made a pretty excel file).
Since the deck is printed with LPCC it will be shipped from the UK.

I had to include the prices of shipping internationally with royal mail. All the costs cover all that but it means i won't have much profit margin.

I'm still looking to see if there are any fulfilment centers that have a cheaper option in the USA.
Currently I am in talks with JPplaying cards to fulfil the UK shipments

So an amateur packager won't mess up the decks.

Rose · « **Reply #67 on:** October 08, 2014, 08:27:18 AM »

Quote from: Don Boyer on October 03, 2014, 04:24:45 PM

If only there weren't so many dragon decks all coming out at once - it's going to be tough getting attention and market share to all of them.

I was just thinking this. Tis the season for dragons.
Oh, I just read further down...four beasts, cool!

alvinhy · « **Reply #68 on:** October 08, 2014, 11:18:59 AM »

Hey guys, I just drafted out a kickstarter campaign.
If any of you have some spare time please take a look and leave some feedback!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/578625602?token=062cf219

PurpleIce · « **Reply #69 on:** October 08, 2014, 12:17:45 PM »

Quote from: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 11:18:59 AM

Hey guys, I just drafted out a kickstarter campaign.
If any of you have some spare time please take a look and leave some feedback!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/578625602?token=062cf219

Just some points i noticed. 1) There are miniature dragons on the card back and the jokers. While it may suit the whole chinese theme and all, but the four beasts should be considered equal in all regards. Should the miniature "dragon" be changed to something else instead?
2) Likewise for the Aces. Can't really see it clearly, but the AoS and AoH have their beasts clearly represented but i don't seem to see the tiger and tortoise in AoC and AoD 3) The pips and indices for the teal cards are black, but the red cards are just..red. Perhaps could use black or a darker shade of red? Maybe Carmine, Dark Red or Maroon?

alvinhy · « **Reply #70 on:** October 08, 2014, 07:41:09 PM »

Quote from: PurpleIce on October 08, 2014, 12:17:45 PM

Quote from: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
Hey guys, I just drafted out a kickstarter campaign.
If any of you have some spare time please take a look and leave some feedback!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/578625602?token=062cf219

Just some points i noticed. 1) There are miniature dragons on the card back and the jokers. While it may suit the whole chinese theme and all, but the four beasts should be considered equal in all regards. Should the miniature "dragon" be changed to something else instead?
2) Likewise for the Aces. Can't really see it clearly, but the AoS and AoH have their beasts clearly represented but i don't seem to see the tiger and tortoise in AoC and AoD 3) The pips and indices for the teal cards are black, but the red cards are just..red. Perhaps could use black or a darker shade of red? Maybe Carmine, Dark Red or Maroon?

Hey PurpleIce,

Thanks for the feedback, the mini dragon actually has a meaning for it. And I was going to reveal the "secret" in the video where I explain the history of the deck.

Upon researching, I found out that the four beasts are protectors of each direction on the compass and there is actually a fifth beast called the yellow dragon of the centre that represents the fifth element and centre of the compass. But thats just history and I think you are right about too many dragon decks and to balance the deck a bit by having the beasts equal.

As for the AoC and AoD there is the beast on it but not as prominent. It can be fun "finding the beasts". I also like the idea of having a darker shade of red on the red pips, but not black.

Rose · « **Reply #71 on:** October 09, 2014, 01:16:14 PM »

Quote from: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 11:18:59 AM

Hey guys, I just drafted out a kickstarter campaign.
If any of you have some spare time please take a look and leave some feedback!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/578625602?token=062cf219

Looks awesome! Well Done, beautiful deck!

alvinhy · « **Reply #72 on:** October 09, 2014, 08:54:04 PM »

Thanks rose!
Been finalising everything and i am happy to announce to launch the campaign on sunday

Hopefully this time it will meet its goal *fingers crossed*

If you want instant email when the project is launched you can sign up for early invite at Prefundia:
http://prefundia.com/projects/view/sishou-four-beasts-playing-cards/2777/

Just so you don't miss the early birds

Nurul · « **Reply #73 on:** October 12, 2014, 02:01:56 PM »

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/sishou-four-beasts-playing-cards-by-alvin-cheung NOW live!!!!!!!

alvinhy · « **Reply #74 on:** October 13, 2014, 07:25:36 AM »

Woke up this morning with over 50% funded

Any suggestions on how to push it further? Maybe I should add more add ons like T-shirts posters?