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About the thinnest deck made by USPC

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About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« on: August 19, 2019, 09:11:26 AM »
 

touya

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hi!
Nice to meet you, I am a collector in Japan.
What is the thinnest deck you know from USPC?

I am studying the thinnest deck in USPC.

The thinnest deck I know is 'US marine corps playing cards'.

There are many playing cards that I don't know yet. It is very difficult by individual power.
If you know more about this playing cards, please let me know.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 11:04:55 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 05:47:42 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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hi!
Nice to meet you, I am a collector in Japan.
What is the thinnest deck you know from USPC?

I am studying the thinnest deck in USPC.

The thinnest deck I know is 'us marine plays cards'.

There are many playing cards that I don't know yet. It is very difficult by individual power.
If you know more about this playing cards, please let me know.

These days, USPC makes several decks with what they call "Thin-Crush" stock - it's their regular stock, pressed thinner when sandwiching the layers of paper together.  It makes the cards more pliable and soft right out of the box, but at the same time I'm told it reduces their ability to withstand wear-and-tear of frequent use.  You should look for some of them.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 06:30:45 PM »
 

touya

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Thank you for your reply!

I have checked the crushed stock to some extent.
Until 2019, the decks for the cardiology were thin.
In particular, the decks towards cardistry-con 2019 were very thin and those using D & D's own crushed stock were thin.
My turn HOTEL CASINO playing cards
Ace Fulton's pink edition playing cards
cardistry-con 2019 (green) playing cards
ANYONE/D & D MIRROR playing cards
Fontaine Carrots V3 playing cards
bicycle suite line playing cards
Gemini Casino Emerald Green playing cards
These are very high quality and my recommendation: -)



But that's still a general level of discussion.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 06:33:19 PM »
 

touya

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correction
I have checked the crushed stock to some extent.
Until 2019, the decks for the  『cardistry 』 were thin.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 06:50:38 PM »
 

touya

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correction
bicycle supreme line playing cards
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 07:12:14 PM »
 

touya

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I measured 52 sheets,
My turn HOTEL CASINO playing cards, which was the thinnest, were 13.95 mm.

The thickness of the US Marine Corps playing cards is only about 12.7 mm, although it varies from deck to deck.

Also, from the content of the advertisement card, I think there is a high possibility that it is 'government supplied goods' but since there is no information overseas, I would like to know what kind of deck it is.

I'm going to work now, so I'll prepare pictures after work.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2019, 01:26:45 AM »
 

touya

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First of all, looking back at the history of playing cards made by USPCC, I think they started using very thin paper stock around 83. The general perception is that many magicians feel that the bike at the 84 Los Angeles Olympics has become much thinner.

My guess is that the move to acquire ARRCO probably started around that time and the number of thin stock deck has increased.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2019, 02:10:05 AM »
 

touya

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I hear that “ARRCO tahoe” is particularly thin among the information I have heard so far.

I think many ARRCO brand decks are very thin.

The following is the data I researched and compiled.

US Marine corps               :12.50~13.20mm
VIRGINIASLIMS             :12.85~13.00mm
Showboat Casino          :12.95~13.10mm
MARLBORO TEXAN 45   :13.15mm
old STUD(※)                      :13.45mm
absolut(※)                         :13.45mm
GENOVESE                  :mm
CLUBCASINO              :13.50mm
elm deck(※)           :13.75mm
supreme line  (blue)      :13.95mm
fire stone (1972)               :13.95~14.00mm
my turn HOTELCASINO   :13.95~14.00mm
cardistry-con2019            :14.00mm
skoal bandit                :14.00mm
fontaine carrot v3      :14.00~14.05mm
gemini casino (緑)     :14.00~14.05mm
Ace Fulton’s pink           :14.15mm
smoke ANYONE               :14.15mm
Elite edition        :14.15mm
ARRCOstreamline(1960):14.20mm
GoldenNugget(1974)      :14.30mm
blue ribbon(kickstarter)  :14.50mm
Gold standard         :14.90mm
bicycle             :14.90~15.20mm
※=reference value
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2019, 02:18:20 AM »
 

touya

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Most of the top decks in this data are USPCC 'ARRCO' brand decks.
It feels like the same stock.

The reason that US marine corps playing cards are the thinnest is probably because they are not plastic coated.
The finish is beautiful, but I felt there was no finish compared to the VERGNIA SLIMS playing cards.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2019, 06:15:33 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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There's one thing you need to bear in mind about stocks.

They vary even within the same batch in terms of their thickness, never mind from batch to batch.  So you could buy a dozen of the same deck and discover that every single deck has some variances in their thickness.

When you order custom playing cards to be made by USPC, you're offered stocks that come within a range of thicknesses, and the ranges overlap.  If you do a quick search of this forum, you'll find it's discussed in a few topics.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2019, 10:39:47 PM »
 

touya

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You are right.
As long as it is mass-produced by machines, it is impossible to make exactly the same thing, so I understand the difference between lots and individual variations.
The data I have looked at shows that I have some obviously thin playing cards open to give an average for my deck.

Does it mean that USPCC can specify an approximate 'Thickness' within the threshold when placing an order?
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2019, 04:43:02 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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You are right.
As long as it is mass-produced by machines, it is impossible to make exactly the same thing, so I understand the difference between lots and individual variations.
The data I have looked at shows that I have some obviously thin playing cards open to give an average for my deck.

Does it mean that USPCC can specify an approximate 'Thickness' within the threshold when placing an order?

No.  You can order a range, and that's it.  You don't get to pick within that range.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2019, 09:21:16 AM »
 

touya

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These thin decks were widely distributed from about 1983 to 2000. A Japanese collector has hypothesized that one of the possibilities would be 'Was the stock owned by ARRCO used?' but it is not realistic for ARRCO to have had 'pulp stock' to produce for nearly 20 years.

In any case, I heard from many Japanese old collectors and gained knowledge, but no one has all the USPCC playing cards sold from the 1800s to this year. Finding the thinnest USPCC deck requires the cooperation of cardistry, magicians and collectors around the world.

For example, decks produced in 'International Playing Card Company' were used in many promotional decks, such as orders from universities, companies, and individuals. Many of them were smooth finish and even without embossing, but they were thin, so I remember the quality was high.

Some of these small lot production decks may no longer exist because they are now gone.

Mr. Don Boyer, what kind of deck is the thinnest one you've ever seen?

As long as it is a general commercial product other than a magic special order product, it is OK if it is not made by USPCC.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2019, 09:23:31 AM »
 

touya

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thickness survey
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2019, 09:24:44 AM »
 

touya

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thickness survey
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2019, 04:00:34 PM »
 

Justin O.

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What about the Hollingworths?
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2019, 03:17:02 PM »
 

Justin O.

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  • Charm gets you quite far. Guile gets you the rest.
@Don, didn't Dan & Dave always claim to have signature thin stock as well? For several of their decks independent of the Hollingworths?
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2019, 05:05:40 AM »
 

touya

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Thanks for the information.
I knew that Hollingwords playing cards existed, but I didn't know the details.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2019, 03:47:44 AM »
 

touya

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I don't own Hollingwords playing cards so I would like someone to measure the thickness of 52 pieces.

Deck was not distributed in Japan.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2019, 03:18:48 PM »
 

Justin O.

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I will try to remember when I get home, but my memory is very bad. Here is an image comparing Hollingworths to a standard bike deck
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2019, 06:37:21 AM »
 

touya

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Thank you for your reply!

After you told me about Hollingworth, I searched forums.

Many people often compare it to normal bicycle deck.

It's hard to say because the quality and thickness of normal bicycle deck are different depending on the year of manufacture. X- <

If you have the chance, I would like you to measure the thickness of 52 sheets: -)
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2019, 06:42:04 AM »
 

touya

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Also, I will buy 'micrometer' soon and measure again.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2019, 09:31:32 AM »
 

Eddie Hughlett

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touya,

Have you asked Magic Orthodoxy this question? He usually measures 10 cards with a micrometer in his deck reviews, but on the review of the GH decks he does not. Perhaps he would measure the deck for you?

Hope this helps

-eh
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 09:33:04 AM by Eddie Hughlett »
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2019, 09:46:34 AM »
 

touya

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Thank you for your reply.

GH deck is still distributed overseas and you can buy new one.

I'm not talking about it here, but my wife is pregnant and sick, so I gave up buying it for my livelihood.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2019, 03:38:59 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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These thin decks were widely distributed from about 1983 to 2000. A Japanese collector has hypothesized that one of the possibilities would be 'Was the stock owned by ARRCO used?' but it is not realistic for ARRCO to have had 'pulp stock' to produce for nearly 20 years.

In any case, I heard from many Japanese old collectors and gained knowledge, but no one has all the USPCC playing cards sold from the 1800s to this year. Finding the thinnest USPCC deck requires the cooperation of cardistry, magicians and collectors around the world.

For example, decks produced in 'International Playing Card Company' were used in many promotional decks, such as orders from universities, companies, and individuals. Many of them were smooth finish and even without embossing, but they were thin, so I remember the quality was high.

Some of these small lot production decks may no longer exist because they are now gone.

Mr. Don Boyer, what kind of deck is the thinnest one you've ever seen?

As long as it is a general commercial product other than a magic special order product, it is OK if it is not made by USPCC.

The absolute thinnest deck I've ever seen was exactly that, a specialized deck manufactured for use by magicians.  It's the Phoenix Double Decker - two decks in a tuck box the same size as a standard tuck box.  The cards are half the standard thickness - and they're marked and have a one-way marking on the backs.  They're available from the producer, Card Shark, at http://card-shark.de.

Sorry to hear about your wife - I hope she recovers soon and your child is OK.

The device you're using in your photos is similar to a micrometer, but a good micrometer, digital or analog, will give you increments of 0.01 mm.  Your device looks like a caliper - a simpler measuring device, not as precise as a micrometer, which is technically a type of caliper.

Measuring the thickness of a single deck will NOT give you an accurate measure of a deck's thickness - as odd as that sounds.  The issue is that the thickness of the pasteboard used to make playing cars is NOT of a uniformly consistent thickness.  There can even be variances of thickness among cards within a single deck.  Simply put, as careful as a manufacturer may be in the creation of its paper and pasteboard made from that paper, it's not done with only a limited amount of precision, allowing the thickness of a deck to be just right to fit in a box of cards - but there's a lot of "wiggle room" within that standard.  So measuring one deck in a print run and measuring another deck in a print run, odds are that if you're measuring to a certain degree of accuracy, you'll reach a point where very few of the decks are precisely the same thickness, but that the overall print run will be within a certain range of thicknesses.

It makes little sense to obsess that much over finding the thinnest deck out there when there's so much irregularity in their manufacture.  You could declare that "Deck X" is the thinnest, then I could find a "Deck X" that's thicker, one that's thinner, a "Deck Y" that's thinner, etc.  It's like expecting a plain, common spool of rope made from twined strands to be of a uniform thickness for its entire length, when the twining of the strands makes such a degree of uniformity impossible.

Now, you CAN find a deck that's generally thinner in its print run, you can find a deck that's generally thicker in its print run, but not one that's uniformly thinner, especially since there are relatively few stocks used by each manufacturer.  USPC makes two kinds of stock, "standard" (mostly used for Bicycle) and "casino grade" (mostly used for Bee), and each of these stocks is available in a "thin crush" version, whereby they press the stock with more pressure between the rollers when binding the two layers of paper with the graphite-infused glue in-between.  The biggest issue that they run into in terms of consistency is that they don't make that paper - they make the pasteboard from the paper, but the paper itself is produced by paper mills and they order it from them - and they don't have as much control over that paper.  There's also regulations that require a certain percentage of all newly-manufactured paper to have a certain amount of recycled content, especially "post-consumer" recycled content, which has a much worse consistency and shorter fibers.

They're not the only company that runs into such issues, I'm sure.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2019, 01:20:50 AM »
 

touya

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Thank you for your reply.

Playing cards and manipulation cards for magic are about half as thin as bicycle deck.
There is no point in comparing the quality of these and the line deck sold to the public because they are used for different purposes.

The  Vernier used for the measurement is cheap. I'm sorry.
This is only measured as a rough guide for publication on the Internet.
For example, to explain that bee is thicker than bicycle, I thought it would be easier to understand if it was written in rough numbers.

Thank you for your concern about my wife's illness.
I will do my best to support wife.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2019, 01:36:47 AM »
 

touya

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You can learn about playing cards manufacturing in this forum. Thank you always for your very clear explanation!

However, your explanation is just a big point of view on the producer side, and is it not about the standard of one brand?

To put it another way, when we produce bicycle, we just say, 'The thickness of bicycle shall be specified as 14.9 mm ± 0.3 mm.' It's not like looking for thin ones among existing old playing cards

You can also see that playing cards made in the pre-1900s hand-writing era have very different thicknesses.
However, the bicycle in the 80s was clearly thinner than the current model, but it never got thinner or thicker by 2mm or 3mm.


The range of manufacturing error in terms of the thickness of each brand depends on the production year, but I think it's up to about 1 sheet.

I think the error of more than 2 sheet is second quality.

For example, the US marine corps and VERGNIA SLIMS that we are talking about this time are close to the production date, and I think it is no problem to say that they are almost the same thickness as machine recipes.
I think the reason the US marine corps is slightly thinner is because the finish is simpler than VERGNIA SLIMS.
In other words, each plastic coating has a different thickness, so the measurement results show a slight difference. Of course the quality is different.

The quality you like depends on the person.
Many people will dislike the very thin and soft quality of US marine corps.
However, if you are a woman or a child, you can use this deck very much when you practice poker size.

In fact, as long as there are very thin decks, each with its own quality, and as long as there is a worldwide demand for manageable decks, I think this endless agenda is worth pursuing.

In other words, I hope that I can supplement the history of playing cards and help the creators of new playing cards by keeping records for future generations
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 09:32:03 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2019, 03:53:04 AM »
 

touya

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The agenda will be 'Exploring the thinnest deck in the USPCC'
In terms of thickness,
There are probably a lot of decks that are thinner than US marine corps.
For example, the Congress brand is mostly a bridge-sized or small-sized memento, but the old Congress I have is very thin.

The playing cards I am looking for are:
For use by magicians, gamblers and cardistry,
*Poker size.
*Playing cards that are not intended for special use and are generally available.
*To be made of paper.
*Made by USPCC
The above is the rule.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
The industry and the manufacturing industry have been digitizing more and more to improve efficiency, but we humans, who deal with decks, are analog.
So I think it's natural to want a deck that is easy to handle.

It is not only a matter of playing cards manufacturing.

The manufacturing industry is greatly affected by external factors such as the historical background of production, poor forest production, and political issues such as war, taxes and environmental problems.

The USPCC OHIO plant has a long history of producing a wide variety of playing cards.
It is difficult to grasp all of them, but I hope the investigation of the thickness will be an index for the future of playing cards.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2019, 04:46:28 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The agenda will be 'Exploring the thinnest deck in the USPCC'
In terms of thickness,
There are probably a lot of decks that are thinner than US marine corps.
For example, the Congress brand is mostly a bridge-sized or small-sized memento, but the old Congress I have is very thin.

The playing cards I am looking for are:
For use by magicians, gamblers and cardistry,
*Poker size.
*Playing cards that are not intended for special use and are generally available.
*To be made of paper.
*Made by USPCC
The above is the rule.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
The industry and the manufacturing industry have been digitizing more and more to improve efficiency, but we humans, who deal with decks, are analog.
So I think it's natural to want a deck that is easy to handle.

It is not only a matter of playing cards manufacturing.

The manufacturing industry is greatly affected by external factors such as the historical background of production, poor forest production, and political issues such as war, taxes and environmental problems.

The USPCC OHIO plant has a long history of producing a wide variety of playing cards.
It is difficult to grasp all of them, but I hope the investigation of the thickness will be an index for the future of playing cards.

You mention the Ohio plant.  USPC hasn't printed cards in Ohio since 2009.  The new plant is in a suburb of Cincinnati, but it's on the other side of the Ohio River, in Erlanger, Kentucky - it's closer to the local international airport.  I've had the pleasure of going through a tour of the factory as part of the 52 Plus Joker Club's annual convention back in 2017.

One thing that is a major factor impacting the thickness and uniformity of card stock is that US regulations now require that the paper be made using a high percentage of post consumer recycled content.  This means there's fewer long fibers in the paper, but it also means the overall quality of the paper isn't as high as it once was.  Using your rules you stated in your previous post about what specifications you're looking for, you mentioned specifically that you only wish to consider USPC decks.  This means any new decks will be of this newer, less-consistent, lower-grade of stock.

BTW: I wasn't sure if you're aware, but USPC will be a subsidiary of Cartamundi, a Belgium-based company, before the year is over.  It's in the process of being sold by its current owner, Newell Brands.  With the recent sale of GPI (owners of Kardwell and Gemaco) to Angel Playing Cards of Osaka, that means the only truly American company left making cards that I know of would be Liberty Playing Cards, operated by the same company that owns the Gambler's Warehouse store.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2019, 07:07:30 AM »
 

touya

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The agenda will be 'Exploring the thinnest deck in the USPCC'
In terms of thickness,
There are probably a lot of decks that are thinner than US marine corps.
For example, the Congress brand is mostly a bridge-sized or small-sized memento, but the old Congress I have is very thin.

The playing cards I am looking for are:
For use by magicians, gamblers and cardistry,
*Poker size.
*Playing cards that are not intended for special use and are generally available.
*To be made of paper.
*Made by USPCC
The above is the rule.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
The industry and the manufacturing industry have been digitizing more and more to improve efficiency, but we humans, who deal with decks, are analog.
So I think it's natural to want a deck that is easy to handle.

It is not only a matter of playing cards manufacturing.

The manufacturing industry is greatly affected by external factors such as the historical background of production, poor forest production, and political issues such as war, taxes and environmental problems.

The USPCC OHIO plant has a long history of producing a wide variety of playing cards.
It is difficult to grasp all of them, but I hope the investigation of the thickness will be an index for the future of playing cards.

You mention the Ohio plant.  USPC hasn't printed cards in Ohio since 2009.  The new plant is in a suburb of Cincinnati, but it's on the other side of the Ohio River, in Erlanger, Kentucky - it's closer to the local international airport.  I've had the pleasure of going through a tour of the factory as part of the 52 Plus Joker Club's annual convention back in 2017.

One thing that is a major factor impacting the thickness and uniformity of card stock is that US regulations now require that the paper be made using a high percentage of post consumer recycled content.  This means there's fewer long fibers in the paper, but it also means the overall quality of the paper isn't as high as it once was.  Using your rules you stated in your previous post about what specifications you're looking for, you mentioned specifically that you only wish to consider USPC decks.  This means any new decks will be of this newer, less-consistent, lower-grade of stock.

BTW: I wasn't sure if you're aware, but USPC will be a subsidiary of Cartamundi, a Belgium-based company, before the year is over.  It's in the process of being sold by its current owner, Newell Brands.  With the recent sale of GPI (owners of Kardwell and Gemaco) to Angel Playing Cards of Osaka, that means the only truly American company left making cards that I know of would be Liberty Playing Cards, operated by the same company that owns the Gambler's Warehouse store.


I know, of course, that USPC was acquired by Cartamundi.
It also shocked collectors and magicians in Japan.
The majority of Japanese people said, 'I think it's the same as before.' but I'm not.

When I learned about the acquisition, I would maintain the status quo for about 20 years, but in the future I expect the USPC to be different and I feel a sense of crisis.

This is because management studies are a repetition of artificial selection and history repeats itself.

As you may know, managers and employees at the OHIO plant used to value tradition far more than users thought.

I also remember that there was a private A special storage room where the old playing cards were stored.

However, I don't like USPCC very much because it doesn't seem to have a direction to respect history and tradition after it shifted to the KY plant and management put profits first.

KY factory-made playing cards have been improved by prominent magicians and cardistry, but we believe that there are limits to that.

However, we have to accept the trend of the times because we cannot survive without mass production.

Cartamundi has pledged to respect, respect and manage the USPCC to the utmost, but it won't last long.

Business management in the present age is like the dinosaur era.
It's easy to imagine another third party trying to make money and monopolize the market, and even Cartamundi being acquired.

When shareholders change, the direction of the company is very unstable.

That's why I think the history of USPCC should be preserved.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 07:41:11 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2019, 08:21:10 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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Don - just recently I asked USPCC about the paper stock because a few of the people I know who have ordered custom decks had told me that Bicycle is insisting that crushed stock is a separate roll of paper and so I reached out to them and this is the email I got

"Yes, it has been a completely different roll of paper since I started here almost 10 years ago "
Tiffany Mahan Custom Sales Manager

Touya - this is my thickness chart, I don't update it much anymore but my thinnest deck is all the way at the bottom

http://magicorthodoxy.weebly.com/magic-reviews/card-thickness-how-will-these-cards-feel
More Magic and Deck Reviews https://www.youtube.com/magicorthodoxy
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2019, 09:01:03 AM »
 

touya

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Don - just recently I asked USPCC about the paper stock because a few of the people I know who have ordered custom decks had told me that Bicycle is insisting that crushed stock is a separate roll of paper and so I reached out to them and this is the email I got

"Yes, it has been a completely different roll of paper since I started here almost 10 years ago "
Tiffany Mahan Custom Sales Manager

Touya - this is my thickness chart, I don't update it much anymore but my thinnest deck is all the way at the bottom

http://magicorthodoxy.weebly.com/magic-reviews/card-thickness-how-will-these-cards-feel


Thank you for your reply!
I have already seen the list of thickness survey.
Why haven't you measured the thickness for a long time?

Can I check the thickness of the Hollingwords playing cards?

What is the most thin deck you have ever felt?
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2019, 09:08:02 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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"What is the most thin deck you have ever felt?"

The one at the bottom of my list
More Magic and Deck Reviews https://www.youtube.com/magicorthodoxy
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2019, 09:25:11 AM »
 

touya

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"What is the most thin deck you have ever felt?"

The one at the bottom of my list

I see.
I would like to get it if I have a chance.

Thank you!
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2019, 05:19:51 AM »
 

touya

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Hello!
I got two kinds of decks that people in the forum taught me.

I also prepared a micrometer and digital vernier calipers to match it.
The micrometer measurement is a point measurement, so we found that it damages the Playing Cards.
Therefore, it is measured by digital vernier caliper.

I will post the result after the measurement.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2019, 05:24:15 AM »
 

touya

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hollingworth burgundy,auto cycle
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2019, 05:22:20 AM »
 

touya

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I will report that the thickness investigation has advanced to some extent.

I don't know if there is a demand for this topic, but X- <
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2019, 05:31:01 AM »
 

touya

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About 'auto cycle No. 1'

The thickness was greatly different from Mr.Magic _ Orthodox's deck due to the lot difference.
Mr.Magic _ Orthodox's deck was made in 2016, and mine was made in 2018.

Please refer to the survey results for the thickness.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2019, 05:36:35 AM »
 

touya

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※There are numerical variations due to individual differences in deck and lot differences.
 
us marine corps              :12.50mm~13.10mm
VIRGINIASLIMS           :12.85mm~13.15mm
Showboat Casino        :12.85mm~13.10mm
-------------------------12mm range--------------------------
Cincinnati Reds(1993)   :13.00mm~13.05mm
MARLBORO TEXAN 45  :13.25mm~13.35mm
old STUD(※)                :13.25mm~14.85mm
Winston Motor 20th(N) :13.35mm~13.40mm
Izzy Atlanta(U)       :13.35mm~13.45mm
American airlines(W)  :13.45mm~13.50mm
absolut(※)                       :13.45mm
CLUBCASINO            :13.50mm~13.70mm
Spain StreamLine(B)      :13.65mm~13.70mm
elm deck(※)       :13.75mm
GENOVESE                :13.80mm~13.85mm
ARRCOstreamline red    :13.85mm~13.90mm
Budweiser                  :13.90mm~13.95mm
fire stone (1972)              :13.95mm~14.00mm
BICYCLE JUMBO INDEX :13.95mm~14.00mm
congress606 1914(T)     :13.95mm~14.00mm
MJ Moriarty1916             :13.95mm~14.00mm
skoal bandit(M)             :14.00mm~14.10mm
New fan back(F)           :14.05mm~14.10mm
supreme line  (blue)     :14.05mm~14.15mm
Elite edition          :14.05mm~14.15mm
hollingworth burgundy   :14.05mm~14.15mm
ARRCOstreamline blue  :14.10mm~14.20mm
PLAYBOY bicycle(1973) :14.15mm~14.20mm
blue ribbon red(E)(1943):14.15mm~14.20mm
cardistry-con2019          :14.15mm~14.25mm
ANYONE MIRROR           :14.15mm~14.30mm
SPHINX FORTUNE(T)    :14.20mm~14.25mm
my turn HOTELCASINO :14.25mm~14.30mm
fontaine carrot v3        :14.25mm~14.30mm
gemini casino (green)    :14.25mm~14.35mm
ramayana(blue)               :14.30mm~14.40mm
Ace Fulton’s pink             :14.30mm~14.40mm
Great Mogul(H)            :14.40mm~14.45mm
CARAVAN blue(U)           :14.45mm~14.50mm
SUMMER NOC orange   :14.45mm~14.50mm
Royal Order of jesters    :14.45mm~14.50mm
Bee Erdnase V1        :14.45mm~14.50mm
GoldenNugget(1974)     :14.50mm~14.55mm
Magic Castle(IPCC)        :14.50mm~14.55mm
Potsunen ICHIMATSU   :14.50mm~14.55mm
bicycle second(1993)    :14.55mm~14.60mm
TONY's PIZZA                  :14.55mm~14.60mm
blue ribbon(kickstarter) :14.70mm~14.75mm
DUNES CASINO red    :14.75mm~14.80mm
Hornet(2012)                   :14.75mm~14.80mm
Broadway Castle Tahoe:14.80mm~14.85mm
HOYLE red(Y)(KY)       :14.80mm~14.90mm
friars club red(S)    :14.85mm
LondonOlympic2012      :14.90mm~14.95mm
Gold standard red           :14.90mm~15.05mm
bicycle2015         :14.90mm~15.20mm
B'z                                :14.95mm~15.00mm
YOUR Basic                      :14.95mm~15.00mm
Bee Erdnase V2               :14.95mm~15.00mm
Emerald CASINO             :15.00mm~15.05mm
Gold standard blue      :15.05mm~15.10mm
SENSORED bicycle         :15.00mm~15.05mm
HOYLE blue(L)(OHIO)     :15.05mm~15.10mm
AUTO CYCLE(green)      :15.05mm
SUPER NOC No,1     :15.10mm~15.15mm
Madison Rounders         :15.10mm
AUTO CYCLE(violet)       :15.16mm
be@rbrick(2011)          :15.20mm~15.25mm
FRAGMENT blue             :15.20mm~15.25mm
SQUEEZERS Bulldog      :15.25mm~15.30mm
Fate Chip       :15.30mm~15.35mm
CHARAN-PO- RANTAN  :15.45mm~15.55mm
Bud Light1999(D)            :15.50mm~15.55mm
S.W.E           :15.50mm~15.60mm
Bicycle Lovely Bear  :15.60mm~15.65mm
ARISTOCRAT red            :15.65mm~15.70mm
※=reference value
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 08:47:09 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2019, 08:44:26 AM »
 

touya

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The hollingworth burgundy DECK I got was not that thin in thickness.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2019, 09:45:20 AM »
 

touya

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edition
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 09:53:54 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2019, 09:50:18 AM »
 

touya

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Summary of 'USPCC Playing Cards Thickness Survey'.

In the past, countless Playing Cards have been built with varying thicknesses, but here's what I know:.


●Small order decks such as advertising decks, novelty decks, custom decks, and commemorative decks that are produced only during the year have little lot difference.


●However, the small-order deck described above is shipped as good even in second quality because the number of production is limited.
There are unevenness in quality such as printing misalignment, roughness of cutting, foreign matter contamination, finish unevenness, and thickness unevenness.


●Brands that have been produced for a long period of time vary greatly in quality and thickness because of differences in quality caused by different lots every year.


●Color variations such as red and blue vary slightly from lot to lot even in the same period of production.


●Decks produced that year are basically of the same thickness and quality as long as they are in the same inventory.


●Since the 'number' in the code on the ace of spades indicates the production line, the quality other than design is approximately the same if the number is the same. (However, special custom decks are excluded.)


●Case Thickness
Made by OHIO → Basically made to match the thickness of the deck.
Made in KY → Basically common dimensions. In other words, when the DECK is thin, it is concave, and when it is thick, it is swollen.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2019, 05:40:03 PM »
 

touya

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'Easy way to find thin Playing Cards'

I used to measure 52 decks by opening the case.

However, it costs a lot because you have to open the expensive deck.

So we decided to measure 'For each unopened case'.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2019, 05:40:59 PM »
 

touya

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The USPCC Playing Cards I opened consisted of 52 basic and 1 to 4 up to a maximum of 56.

Except for the congress, the general Playing Cards case has a total thickness of around 0.7mm.

Think of the thickness of one card as 0.3 mm as a reference. A maximum of 4 jokers or guarantee cards is about 1.2 mm.

The average is approximately 0.9 mm.

In other words, the value obtained by subtracting 'approximately 1.6mm' from the value obtained by measuring the whole box is equal to the thickness of 52 sheets. There is no problem with a slight error.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2019, 05:41:56 PM »
 

touya

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Even if I didn't know how many pieces were inside, there was no problem in determining whether it was thin or thick.

When I measured the whole case, if it is '14 mm Range', I can guess that the deck is very thin.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2019, 05:42:43 PM »
 

touya

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This is just a way to determine if a deck is thin, but the 'Cincinnati Reds' deck was discovered this way.

The measuring instrument is caliper.

The advantage of this method is that the cost is very low.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2019, 06:06:08 PM »
 

touya

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I took a lot of pictures to post, but it was stopped because there were so many.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2019, 06:48:27 PM »
 

touya

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『unopened deck  thickness survey reference table』

U.S Marine Corps                   :14.50mm
Jerry's Nugget red                  :15.75mm
Cincinnati Reds(1993)           :14.70mm
Winston Motor 20th(N)         :15.10mm
Los Olympic bicycle red        :14.95mm
Los Olympic bicycle blue      :15.05mm
Skoal Bandit(M)                      :15.30mm
ELM DECK red                        :15.05mm
ELM DECK blue                      :15.10mm
Uncle Sam bicycle red          :16.30mm
Magic symposium red          :16.05mm
Magic symposium blue        :16.30mm
Atlanta Olympic bicycle        :16.60mm
Las Vegas club blue              :15.35mm
Blue Ribbon1943                   :15,45mm
Blue Ribbon blue 70s            :15.55mm
Blue Ribbon red 90s              :15.50mm
Ramayana(blue)                 :15.75mm
Rider back red(80s)               :15.60mm
Rider back blue(80s)             :16.05mm
LEAGUE back red               :16.05mm
RACER back red              :16.35mm
TONY's PIZZA                  :16.10mm
Gold Standard blue               :16.90mm
Broadway Castle Tahoe       :16.30mm
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2019, 12:35:46 PM »
 

touya

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The content is different from the topic, but there is a minor deck in front of me, so I will add some information about USPC along with the pictures.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2019, 02:59:12 PM »
 

touya

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Timing of the start of the short flap operation.

We only know when long flaps were used until around 1992 when we ran out of stock.

There was no accurate information about when the short flaps were used, so there was a vague understanding, but it is thought to have been in circulation since 1990.

MARLBORO TEXAN 45 Playing Cards are short flaps made in 1990.

As I explained in this topic, unlike the long-run brand deck, small-order decks such as novelty decks and memorial decks are made only in that year.

I have never heard of short flap deck in the 80's.

I'll leave you with the fact that a short flap was made in 1990.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2019, 03:12:18 PM »
 

touya

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Next, looking at the flap of Skoal Bandit Playing Cards (1990), it is a short flap but no slit. This is a rare case seen on decks produced during the transition from long flaps to short flaps.

Skoal Bandit deck is also a novelty deck so it was only produced in 1990.

Even if a semi-short flap was made on a trial basis, I guess it was around the second half of 1989.

The box design of this semi-short flap is 'Horizontal' like the tack cases currently in circulation.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 02:27:46 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2019, 03:47:25 PM »
 

touya

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I am in the middle of posting, but I will post it later because I will take care of my wife.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2019, 01:32:36 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don - just recently I asked USPCC about the paper stock because a few of the people I know who have ordered custom decks had told me that Bicycle is insisting that crushed stock is a separate roll of paper and so I reached out to them and this is the email I got

"Yes, it has been a completely different roll of paper since I started here almost 10 years ago "
Tiffany Mahan Custom Sales Manager

Touya - this is my thickness chart, I don't update it much anymore but my thinnest deck is all the way at the bottom

http://magicorthodoxy.weebly.com/magic-reviews/card-thickness-how-will-these-cards-feel

I know this is an older post I'm replying to, but it was worth reviewing.

The thing about stock at USPC is this - all their paper comes from ELSEWHERE.  They make that paper into pasteboard stock themselves, but the paper itself isn't made by USPC.  And all of their pasteboard stocks are made from the same batches of paper.  These days, it's casino grade, standard grade and thin crush stocks - but the paper used to make them is identical from stock to stock.  Long gone are the days when the stocks themselves were truly different and sourced differently.  Sure, the thin crush is "different" from the standard and casino grade stuff - but only in that the end result is a thinner stock.  The paper used to create that roll of paper is no different than what was used to make the others.

USPC stocks are not completely consistent in their thickness.  They are offered as being with a specific range of thickness, and there's even some overlap between ranges.  A thin casino grade stock can be thinner than a thick standard stock.  This probably also holds true for the differences between thin crush and standard as well, but I can't say for sure as my knowledge of their stocks predates the existence of thin crush.  I can say with certainty that if you bought several packs of the same deck, especially if it was a mass-produced model and the decks were from different places and made at different times in different batches, you'll see there are differences in the stock thickness.  Sometimes, even in the same batch there can be differences - but the differences we're talking about are minute, really more like splitting hairs.

I liken it to when I'm offering my services altering playing cards to magicians.  I will sometimes shave a bit of paper off the edge of a card, and I can offer a magician a certain measure of how much paper gets removed, but that measure is always given to them with the caveat that the end result will be +/- 0.05 mm of the exact measure.  I'm simply unable to be more accurate than that, and even that degree of accuracy is devilishly hard to create.  If I offered that same measure to a magician a month later, making new adjustments to my tools, the resulting work will be very unlikely to be exactly the same measure as the previous work, because it's simply that close to impossible to replicate a given precise measurement with the precision of the tools I'm working with, making adjustments by hand.  I daresay that there are even minute differences from card to card with the work being done with the tools at the same adjustments, just because of the nature of work I do - I'm using a single-edge razor blade run along the edge of a jig to make my cuts, with the card held in the jig by my other hand, and there's only so much precision that can afford.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2019, 02:48:48 AM »
 

touya

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『Winston Motorsport 20th Anniversary Playing Card』
 Was produced in 1991 as a commemorative deck.

 The long flaps made in 1991 can be said to be due to the use of a tack case made in the past.

 This is because the box can be unfolded in the vertical direction, so it cannot be produced with equipment for short flaps.

Also, the alphabet of the code is "N". This is a rare code used only around 1991.

There are many reasons why "N" was used, but I won't explain it here.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2019, 03:47:14 AM »
 

touya

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『American Airlines Playing Cards』(1996)

This deck is also unique.
The alphabet of the code of the deck is "W" , made in 1996, but the tack case is a semi-short flap.

My guess is that the semi-short flap tack case could not be used for mass production items such as bicycle and TALLY-HO, and it had been in stock for several years, so I thought I used it for American Airlines deck as novelty deck.

We assume that novelty decks are made for advertising purposes only and that the rules regarding manufacturing specifications are free.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 05:22:52 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2019, 05:08:24 AM »
 

touya

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This deck is unusually unique in recent years.

As you can see from the image, the Atlanta Olympic Steering Committee was established and the advertising mascot 'Izzy' was born in 1992.

After that, it shows 1993, 1994, 1995, the year 1996 when the Olympics were held, and about 4 years.

The production year of the deck is U, so it was made in 1995.

I don't think there are any Playing Cards that took so long to make one deck.

Also, every time I see the sports mascot Izzy, it reminds me of Trimm-Dich from Adidas.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 06:09:58 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2019, 08:05:05 AM »
 

touya

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『StreamLine Playing Cards』made in Spain

This deck is also unique, so I will describe it.

The alphabet of the code is' B '.
The code "B" is also an alphabet which is not used originally, but was used in 1976 and 1996.

It's a long flap tuck case, so at first glance you might think it was made in 1976, but we can tell it was made in 1996 by taking into consideration the ® mark, bar code, and closure sticker.

It is generally recognized that long flap tuck cases are out of circulation by around 1993, but did the Spanish factory process the past inventory?

Comparing it with the 70 s deck, the way of folding the box is different. The material and thickness are different. This is assumed to be a new tack case made at the Spanish factory. (image reference)

This deck does not follow the rules of USPCC. I thought it was a rare case, so I wrote it down.


By the way, the quality of this deck is high quality, but it is different from the quality of USPC.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2019, 08:48:59 AM »
 

touya

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Now, the introduction has become long, but I introduced these six decks because I wanted to mention them here.

What I wanted to explain is that

 “The four-digit code of small order decks produced only that year, such as advertising decks, novelty decks, and commemorative decks, basically starts with 6”.

In other words, a deck with a code that starts with 6 is a small-order small order deck.
For example, if there is a code “L6 ○○○”, I think that it is no problem to think of it as a low-volume product.

The number of the code is basically the production control number of USPC.

When the production year changes, the number also changes.
The code numbers for the small-order decks from the era we introduced here (80's ~) always begin with 6.

U.S. Marine Corps Playing Cards are also small order decks, so of course the code starts with 6.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 10:55:04 PM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2019, 11:30:38 PM »
 

touya

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The era when extremely thin Playing Cards circulated in the market seems to have peaked around 1980-2000.

Since the 1970s, USPCC's overseas production bases have expanded. In addition to the Canadian and Spanish factories, there was also a factory in Asia for a period of time.

By the 90s, the number of factories had decreased.

At that time, USPCC also had acquisition problems.
Some of the decks made during that time could not show 'USPCC' and some of the ace spades were unmarked.

I think that there are various reasons, but the reason for the change to the short flap and the deck itself has become thinner, As Mr.don said in the past, I guess that “cost reduction” is the most important factor.
I tried measuring the weight. (See image)
Until the 70s, Playing Cards seemed heavy.

For USPCC, the “small order deck”, which has no limit on quality, could have been made simpler by reducing the cost by reducing materials.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #59 on: November 18, 2019, 01:03:43 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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『StreamLine Playing Cards』made in Spain

This deck is also unique, so I will describe it.

The alphabet of the code is' B '.
The code "B" is also an alphabet which is not used originally, but was used in 1976 and 1996.

It's a long flap tuck case, so at first glance you might think it was made in 1976, but we can tell it was made in 1996 by taking into consideration the mark, bar code, and closure sticker.

It is generally recognized that long flap tuck cases are out of circulation by around 1993, but did the Spanish factory process the past inventory?

Comparing it with the 70 s deck, the way of folding the box is different. The material and thickness are different. This is assumed to be a new tack case made at the Spanish factory. (image reference)

This deck does not follow the rules of USPCC. I thought it was a rare case, so I wrote it down.


By the way, the quality of this deck is high quality, but it is different from the quality of USPC.

The Spanish-made Streamlines were produced by Fournier, in Vitoria, Spain - they are an old company that was purchased by USPC some years ago. They mostly operate independently of USPC but have occasionally produced decks for USPC under their brand names. This was one example; another would be the Bicycle Prestige line of 100% plastic decks.

Production of Streamlines has changed over the years - at one point they subcontracted to an unnamed Chinese printer for this and several other lesser-known brands as a test in cost-saving, but the test was unsatisfactory due to much lower quality - now only Maverick, USPC’s least-expensive brand, is made in China by a third-party printer.


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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2019, 03:06:39 AM »
 

touya

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Thank you for the detailed explanation, Don.
That's very helpful. : -)
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2019, 08:28:51 AM »
 

touya

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Please tell me one thing.

When is the USPCC dating code written in blue?

Why did they use blue letters?
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2019, 11:59:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Please tell me one thing.

When is the USPCC dating code written in blue?

Why did they use blue letters?

Honestly, I’m not sure. It could possibly have been to make the letter and numbers stand out more against the predominantly black printing used for most Ace of Spades designs. But that’s only a guess.


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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2019, 05:40:44 PM »
 

touya

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Thank you, Don: -)

The Coca-Cola Playing Cards in the image were made in 1941, but it seems that the blue code was already used around this time. I guess it has become a black code since 1980.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2019, 03:48:54 AM »
 

touya

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Does anyone want U.S. Marine Corps Playing Cards?

We have three more brand new items in stock.

If anyone wants a deck, please let me know.:-)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 06:07:23 AM by touya »