Even Bicycle decks have been known to have a mismatch between what was printed on the box and what was printed on the Ace of Spades for decks released in that year, but for them, it was mostly the other way around - classic-style boxes that said Cincinnati, Aces of Spades that said Erlanger.  In that case, the telltale for knowing the difference was the box seal - black boxes seals became standard issue in Erlanger, so a classic-style Bicycle box with a black deck seal almost invariably contains a Kentucky-made deck.

I remember my first set of Bikes I got sometime late September-early October 2009 at Walmart, but I believe they may have been on the shelf for quite some time, as I remember both the boxes and the Jokers had the Cincinatti address, but I do seem to recall they had the black seal on the boxes. My replacement Bikes that I got last year are definitely Erlanger all the way: says so on the boxes and Jokers, and the boxes open in front instead of the back (not to mention the FREE APP button on the front of the boxes).

And they're definitely Canadian-issue decks.  The American ones don't have the French wording on the boxes along with English.

Wow. How do you suppose they got all the way down here in the deep south then?

That pretty much looks like what I have, but since Don asked for photos, here's what I have to offer:

Box details:


Copyright contradiction:


Odd-looking pips:


Some of the face cards:


It wasn't until I was taking photos that I noticed some oddities about the face cards: notice there's a lot of misalignment on the King of Clubs and Queen of Hearts; the former's crown is disconnected from the head on one side and disconnected from the border on the other, meanwhile, notice the misaligning with the coloring on both of them. Those Jacks? I don't know, but those are some of the weirdest-looking Jacks I've ever seen.

Apparently this is the link now:
http://cartamundiusa.com/card-products/retail/ace-brand

And, of course, this link confirms that the "off-brand" deck I got a Dollar General several years ago was, indeed, a Cartamundi deck:
http://cartamundiusa.com/card-products/retail/classic

Methinks Cartamundi perhaps practices a little perjury when selling their products, no? They say they're the most experienced playing card company in the world, but based on what I've seen from other what people have said about them (and heck, just from my own experiences with that dollar store deck I got), I don't think that's really the case.

I'll agree, Ace's box older box designs did used to be nice to look at (and I'll agree, the Limited Edition deck I picked up today is a really nice box design), but their current box designs? Not so much.


I see on Cartamundi's website they're also the ones responsible for the Eagle brand cards. While I've never handled an Eagle deck, the one place I've seen them is a local/regional grocery store chain called Ingle's, where they're usually found at check-out, alongside Bicycle.

Your 2009 deck might not have been Ohio-made.  Tuck boxes marked with Ohio that have a BLACK deck seal were, in most cases, filled with cards made in Erlanger.  Check the guarantee joker's return address to be certain.

Even though I don't have those 2009 decks anymore, I do still have the guarantee joker, and yes, it has the Ohio address on it. My 2015 (or, 2015 purchased, the boxes are dated 2013) decks have the Kentucky address on the guarantee.

I'm pretty sure they've switch to using a slightly thinner stock for Bicycle decks.  Many people have noticed it.

That much I can tell, yes. As I mentioned previously, in comparison to my Bees, the stock does have a slightly thinner and flimsier feel - but likewise, the Bikes' air-cushion finish has a slightly smoother feel to the touch compared to the slightly coarser cambric finish on the Bees.

But that's about as much I can tell.

I have heard some people talk about how USPC cards have taken a dive in overall quality in the recent years - I'm not entirely sure if that has something to do with it or not, mainly because I honestly can't tell a difference: the first time I bought a pair of Bikes was back in 2009 (but who knows how long they had been on the shelf prior to my purchase) when their factory was still in Ohio; I bought a pair of replacements last year, after they moved to Kentucky. As I said, I know people say they can tell a difference and the cards aren't as good as they used to be, but again, I really see and feel no difference. But then again, I'm not an expert on these things, nor have I been handling cards for a long time. Really, my only quibble with Bikes is how lop-sided their back designs are printed, leaving the white borders thin on one corner, but thick on the opposite corner. I hear that's the only good thing about certain Ace decks, in that their borders are perfectly printed and thin.

The border caught my eye as well, and I strained trying to see if I could make out a border on the cards they're playing with, and I can't quite see one, but as you say, TV wasn't high-res back then, so obvious distortion with the picture is what makes it difficult to make a solid confirmation. Still, studying the center design as best I could, and comparing it with the pic that I found (looking out of focus, that is), I think these may be it - or, at the very least, a strong possibility.

Oh, and I just took another look at the first pic that was shared: is that the box by Desi's elbow, or a cigaratte pack? I'm not expecting it to help try to confirm the cards, I'm just curious as to what it is. For some reason, box designs always seem reminiscent of cigarette packages to me . . . I mean, when I look at Bicycle boxes (particularly red decks), I somehow feel like I'm looking at Marlboro packs.

EDIT: I took one more look at the pic I found, this time without my glasses, and somehow, the way the border blurs makes it look like it more or less blends like a gradiant from the outer white border to the inner design.

Hey, I think I found them!

Me again! I mentioned a while back in another thread about how I purchased two decks of Bee cards (one red, one blue) from a local/region grocery store chain called Food City, but lately I've been reading up about all of these different kinds of counterfeit Bees that are out there, and how some of them are actually pretty convincing that some people weren't even aware they had fakes. One thing I've noticed regarding counterfeit Bees is that most people who were duped in buying them say they bought them in local drug stores, dollar stores, and yes, grocery stores (apparently the drug store chain CVS was stocking these counterfeits for a while).

So, because I bought my decks at a grocery store, I'm wondering if mine may be counterfeits, or if they're the real deal. I'm pretty sure they're real, but I just want to be make sure. Here are some of the details I can provide:

- The price of each deck was over $3 (a lot of these counterfeit stories say the decks are usually $1 each, or both for $1).
- Some of the box details are as follows:
-- They mention the USPCC address as being Erlanger, KY, not Cincinatti, OH.
-- Mentions of a cambric finish
-- Has USPCC seal on the box.
-- Barcode number: 73854 00092
-- Top flap includes trademark information for USPCC (I've seen some counterfeits that include such information in broken English).
- Some of the card details are as follows:
-- The Ace of Spades does say "Made in U.S.A." and has the number 4814-T1113 on it, however, it doesn't include "Fabrique aux E-U," which I notice some Bee Ace of Spades have. Also, the "Bee" logo is the same design as on the box, and not all uppercase, like I've noticed on some Bee Ace of Spades.
-- The front designs of the cards, including the court cards, are virtually identical to Bikes.
-- Speaking of which, the cards' finish also looks like Bikes, however, the finish is slightly rougher than Bikes (you can really feel the tiny little pores in the finish), the stock feels slightly thicker than Bikes.
-- Terms of handling, the fans and spread beautifully, and the finish is nice and slick without being too slippery.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure my Bees, in spite of where they were purchased, are the real deal, however, I do want to be 100% sure, since, again, in some of the counterfeit stories I've read, some of the counterfeits out there are apparently convincing enough until they discover certain little tip-offs. I've even heard of this so-called "green sticker" that's a clear give-away that the deck is fake . . . I don't know what this "green sticker" is, unless its the sticker seal on the box, in which case, the sticker seals on my are black (again, like Bikes). If I need to provide pics, I can.

Look closer. Those Classic playing cards are Cartamundi decks, made in China.

I didn't know the brand, but yes, made in China, and it definitely shows.

The Classics appear to be replacing Mavericks as the dollar deck this year.

I don't believe I've ever seen Mavericks at any of our local DGs, however, they do seem to be the prefered deck brand for Big Lots here; despite being a more known brand, I never usually hear much positive things about Maverick . . . I guess that's why Big Lots has them, lol. I actually have recently noticed that each individual grocery store chain seems to carry a different brand, in additional to also stocking Bicycle (which is almost always found in the check-out lines). For example, in addition to Maverick at Big Lots, some of the grocery store chains in my town also stock Hoyle at Kroger (in a double pack like Walmart does with Bicycle), Bee at Food City (I bought a red and blue deck there), and Eagle at Ingles. Food City and Ingles also carry different decks of Bikes, such as Pinochle decks. As I said, they're usually found at check-out, but some cases, they'll have their own end-cap, usually at the end of whatever aisle has beer, soda, and chips.

The center "button" on the back design has changed slightly on various editions of this desk. Sorry, my decks aren't readily accessible for pictures right now.

Here's some quick scans I did to share:



Like Don said, the face cards are really bad - like low-quality digital print-outs or something: the outlines sort of bleed into each other, and the color quality is like trying to compare an off-brand box of crayons to Crayola. And that Ace of Spades isn't much to sneeze at either; I like a nice-looking Ace of Spades (Bee is probably one of my favorites), but this isn't one of them. Like I said, I got this deck at DG several, several years ago: it was the first deck I ever bought for myself, mainly because I wanted to get a deck of playing cards for a party, so I just grabbed the cheap deck at DG. I forget why I ended up buying the two decks of Bikes a year later, but when I did, I "woke up" and realized the difference in quality between a paper deck that was printed, coated, and finished here in the U.S. of A. and a plastic deck that was printed in China.

I will say this about that plastic deck: it is durable. I accidentally spilled a bottle of water on them once, and aside from the plastic stock warping and swelling slightly (it's a really fat deck now), the cards themselves weren't really damaged at all . . . unfortunately, when some of my Bikes happened to rest on a wet ring on the desk, that was it, I had to replace the deck, which is why I try to take good care of my Bikes and Bees, lol. I know a lot of people prefer plastic decks for that very reason, but just for my personal preference in terms of feel and handling, I do like a nice, coated, finished paper deck. Heck, I can still remember the smell of that Cartamundi deck when I first opened it. . . . not pleasant.

Like I said, I was considering it a possibility, not necessarily an exact match -- again, it may not be possible to find an exact match, but I have been curious in trying to solve the mystery, though it may not be solveable, lol.

In doing some further looking myself, I did happen to come across what may be another possibility:


According to the source I got this from, these are Royal brand decks . . . however, further Googling the Royal brand turns up multiple different back designs that are similar to one another, but all differ significantly in their center designs: one of which is a stylized spades, and another has little cards fanned out into the shape of a star.

Heh, well thanks for sharing; even though I later mentioned it in the other thread, I would just like to restate, for the record, that I do, indeed, know how to play gin rummy - I didn't at the time, but I do now . . . though, admittedly, I still get a little mixed up about what beats what in poker (I understand Bicycle decks usually come with a card with that information on it, but none of the decks I've bought ever did).

And thanks, as I said, I'm a n00b, and wasn't entirely sure where to post this, so to be on the safe side, I posted it here since this board appears to be for general card discussion.

I think I should mention, upon a closer look at this mystery deck, it would appear that the cards are actually narrow, rather than standard poker sized - I'm not sure if that could be a clue to their identity, or not, but I figured I'd throw it out there.