Full custom or Semi custom?

[Rob Wright]

After receiving a disappointing deck from D&D. I got to thinking about designers doing full custom decks as opposed to just a custom backs, Jokers, and Ace of Spades.

With designers like Jackson, Paul, Randy and several others on KS doing full custom decks. I would think that in general people are going to start expecting this on all custom decks. Do you believe this is going to affect big players like E, T11, D&D, and others going forward? Are their designers going to have to do more in the future, or will they be able to rest on there names?

[Fred]

After receiving a disappointing deck from D&D. I got to thinking about designers doing full custom decks as opposed to just a custom backs, Jokers, and Ace of Spades.

With designers like Jackson, Paul, Randy and several others on KS doing full custom decks. I would think that in general people are going to start expecting this on all custom decks. Do you believe this is going to affect big players like E, T11, D&D, and others going forward? Are their designers going to have to do more in the future, or will they be able to rest on there names?

No disrespect to Paul at all (I love his decks), but they are not full custom. You can argue that subjectively they are as they are redrawn/recoloured etc but that does not equate entirely custom. I personally think Uusi is very high on top of that list of creating beautiful custom decks.

On topic, the October deck was definitely a huge let down. It's not false advertising, but im sure a lot of customers were expecting 12 custom courts instead of 4... Kickstarter decks in general are more of 'conversational artwork' that just happens to be on a deck of playing cards. The entirely custom trend is definitely blooming right now, I think the big companies will definitely take inspiration from these decks to an extent, but their major product lines will still have normal looking court cards (By normal, i mean courts that closely resemble the traditional faces, so anywhere between Theory11's recoloured standard courts, to Ellusionist's modified court patterns and to Dan and Dave's simplified courts. I even consider the Season's court cards (which are my favourite) to be entirely custom but 'standard' as the casual spectator will recognise them as playing cards instead of something crazy like Randy's beautiful Imperial).

All this leads me to my point in that the big companies will not transverse too far into completely custom courts, as their major audience are cardists/magicians/performers that basically REQUIRE non-suspicious looking court cards to perform their tricks without a suspecting audience. Though, i think these companies will slowly integrate more customisation into their courts to make them more competitive in the ever so changing market. I really hope they eventually reach the level set by the Seasons deck, but that may be a bit too much wishful thinking as it would take a lot more labour hours (thus money) to create ENTIRELY custom courts like Seasons than a simple 30minute recolouring session.

[bhong]

I second that disappointment about the D&D deck. I've got it arriving soon, but have heard news of repeated courts. I think they could have done so many cool things with the deck and had the chance to go all out. I think my disappointment with the D&D deck is that exactly what Fred said. It felt like they were selling it as a full custom courts, but they really weren't.

I think it varies. As a collector, I love a full-custom deck done well. Maybe unique and make it special. But I think it's that that the new designers are honest about it. I don't mind semi-custom decks. They can be really nice too and there are quite a few that I want to add to my collection, but I want something more to it whether it be the idea behind the deck is cool/interesting (ie. Legends deck, all black decks, any CARC decks, etc.). I think, for semi-custom decks, I want to know before hand that's what it is. I think all it is is transparency. What I'd like big companies to do would do their own signature decks, which I guess Ellusionist has done already with modify re-drawn courts and pips.

[JacksonRobinson]

Great Thread!

When I started the Federal 52 I knew that I would have to figure out a way to set my self apart from the big guys, I had to put my self in a different ball game then them. I didn't want to follow in their footsteps nor did I want to fall into the same patterns of business as all the big guys do. In no way is what and how they are doing what they are doing bad or the wrong way it is simple not the way I wanted to do it.


Think about how many people on this thread have said phrases like "I have decided to stop buying cards" The market is so saturated with work and veriety that people will start choosing to narrow their choices. This happens to any "collectable" market. At first there are a very few number of "items" to collect and people that are producing them so all "collectors" just buy by almost everything just cuz. Eventually the market gets flooded with items so they have to narrow their choices, or in other words find a "direction" to go with for their collection. These splits are great because it only forces collectors to be more picky and for designers to have to step up their game to stay relevant.

Great example. (and probably one of the largest sub categories) Take all the people that just collect Bike Decks. Thats decision is great they are getting focused with their collection and not just randomly buy everything that flies off the shelves. But now even the Bike crew is getting selective cuz its so easy now to slap the bike logo and pay USPC their fee.

As for the big guys, you will have the crowd that buys whatever they produce just because they are "the big guys" and they make the rules. In reality they don't make the rules any more.

One thing you can't forget in this equation is price. The big guys business model is print a truck load and trim off the bells and whistles and get production cost as low as possible then wholesale to as many distributors and then charge $6.95.

This in no way is a bad thing it is simply how they do it and have been doing it. Thats why everybody goes crazy when they see a $12 sticker on a Fed deck and go. "WHAAAAT! $12 I'm not paying that when I pay $6.95 for this other deck that I just saw lit on fire in slow mo. They just know that most people will pay $6.95 for what ever design or hue shifted rehash they slap on a default rider back deck. In the end you will get a $6.95 deck so you shouldn't really expect more than just a custom AoS, Jokers and the almighty double back.

The big guys will most likely carry on doing and making money the way the have. What will change is all the collectors out there. Even though there are tons of decks out there, there are also more and more people becoming collectors as well. For every time I hear someone say "I have decided to stop buy cards." I hear two more people say, "Hello my name is blah, I'm new to card collecting what decks should I get." Collectors will just become more picky and in turn develop their own taste. Just like someone who smokes tons of cigars or anything really. When you're new to cigars you smoke everything because it is new and fresh and you just want to try all of it. But then you realize what you like and don't like and you slowly start to develop your own taste.

After a few years you have one guy that only smokes his $7 Macanudo when you have another guy that will smoke nothing but this specific style of cigar that was rolled in  so and so part of cuba and he has to pay $100 per cigar.

I'm sorry if none of these ramblings didn't make since. I can't wait to see what other people have to say.

[Rob Wright]

Jackson- great point about the $6.95 price. I guess it's true. You get what you pay for. I really shouldn't say I was disappointed with the October deck. I guess I was expecting more. I got started by collecting KS decks. So I am use to seeing full custom. I think bhong makes a good point as well. If I know it's semi custom going in. Then it would not be a surprise when I get it. The only Issue with the $6.95 decks is adding shipping.
The October decks were $7.95 x 2(that includes the 10% coupon code)+ shipping was $22.31. so that is $11 a deck

[JacksonRobinson]

Rob my friend, shipping absolutely sucks in every way that something can suck imaginable. In that case I would be really disappointed if I had to pay as much for shipping as I did for the deck and it be a let down. Shipping cost are in no way D&D fault but they are def a factor in the equation. I just watched a review about the October deck to see what people were referring too... it seems almost like they didn't finish and just put the same courts on all the cards. In reality what probably happened was it would have been to expensive to pay they illustrator to do 14 custom courts and keep the cost low enough to make it workable. I really seems disjointed when you see all the same cards and then bonk there is the king of hearts. They spent their illustration fee on the inside tuck pic that you have to tear open the deck to see.

[Don Boyer]

I've had this discussion before, a number of times by now.  Many good points have been raised here about the nature of collecting.  In truth, there's a place for both types of decks - or to be more accurate, the range of types.

I'm in the midst of working on a project that categorizes decks by their level of customization.  The levels I settled on were:

• Non-custom: totally off-the-shelf.  A one-color back, standard faces including all courts, jokers and Ace of Spades.  Assuming it's a major name brand, the back is identical in every way to that standard back or one of the known variants.  A perfect reprint of a classic Rider Back design, whether with period faces or modern faces, would qualify.  A different classic Bicycle back done this way would also be non-custom.  The best example that comes to mind would be the Bicycle "Big Gun" reprint deck.  The twelve Bicycle Vintage Design series decks would also fit the bill - but they often have altered colors on the backs, which could push them into the next category.
• Minimally custom: at most, it will have a custom back, jokers and AoS.  Sometimes, the "custom" back is just a recoloring of an existing back.  Everything else is totally standard.
• Moderately custom: it has what a minimally-custom deck has, plus unique courts.  Same spot cards and pips as standard.
• Fully custom: complete custom job, top to bottom.  Still conforms to the "Anglo-American" standard, but everything else about it is totally unique.
  
  As you might have guessed, there's so many decks that fall between the cracks, it's hard to solidly place all decks into these categories.  For example, where would the Shadow Masters deck fit?  It's a black deck, standard courts, but has a unique coloration pattern on all the cards, with a fade-to-edge design.  What about the CARC Erdnase decks?  The faces are vintage in appearance, but the Kings are all altered.  So just defining what a custom deck is can be difficult.  You know the extreme yes-that's-a-dyed-in-the-wool custom deck, and you know the bog-standard deck - but the in-between parts aren't so cut and dried.
  
  Both deck types - and all the types in-between - have their place.  For collectors, some like the full-blown, everything-unique jobs, but that's not to say that anything less is unacceptable.  There's a lot of reasons why we collect what we collect, however.  Some love that total re-do, some go for a little nostalgia, some love the unique back art, some love the cool-looking tuck boxes - and some have even more unfathomable reasons.
  
  For a magician, there's a myth circulating that a custom deck is a sure sign that it's a magic deck, somehow different from the decks people use at home, and automatically suspect.  This is totally, patently untrue.  Some just see a custom deck as a really cool-looking deck, period.  The kind of wise guy who'd say it's suspect is also the kind of guy who'd say the same thing about any deck produced by a magician, even Bicycle Rider Backs.  He'd be closer to accurate with the Rider Backs than anything else, since there's more gaff cards and decks in that design than any other!
  
  For magicians, the bigger issue would be two-fold - the comfort factor and the wow factor.  The comfort factor is that the magician wants to present a deck that's entirely familiar not because he thinks the audience will suspect it otherwise, but because the audience will recognize it and feel comfortable with it because it so closely resembles what they use at home.  There's no interpretation required by the brain, no extra thought required.  The wow factor is that the magician wants to present a deck that's very nice, but not so spectacular that it completely removes the spectators attention from the trick and focuses it on the deck instead, and how pretty/cool/wicked/unique/unusual/bizarre it is.  I'm told cardists run into a similar issue at times in that people think the cards are so interesting, they get lost in the deck design and aren't focused on the cardistry being performed.
  
  But this by no means is a reason to never use a custom deck for a performance.  There's always a good reason for the right deck to be used for the right audience.  If you know you're performing at an elegant dinner party, perhaps even one that's a little on the hip side of things, you'd want to break out a deck that matched the event - a few potential examples would be something like Artifice, Sentinels, the first three versions of Smoke and Mirrors, etc.  A "spooky" party for children older than the lower grades might be a good place for the early Bicycle Karnival decks, while a hipster or Goth gathering at a nightclub might find the later decks more useful.  Performing gambling demonstrations might call for a more traditional deck, and some magicians would opt for a design along the lines of the Bee Diamond Back, with a fine, repetitive pattern that is printed right to the edge of the card (or more accurately, "into the bleed") - such patterns create an illusory effect when spread together, making it more difficult to know where one card ends and the next begins, thus making some gambling sleight-of-hand easier to conceal.  For a garden party, the new Bicycle Pluma deck might be just the ticket.  A gathering with an "Old West" theme might call for something suited to that theme, like Bicycle Americana or Bicycle Series 1800.  The Hornets deck from Circle City Cards are custom, but they're also classic and would fit in almost anywhere.  And so on, and so on - there's plenty of occasions for custom decks.
  
  For the "too long, didn't read" crowd, this all means that there's room in this big ol' hobby for non-custom, fully custom and every shade of deck in-between.