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Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)

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Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« on: November 05, 2013, 10:19:19 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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Vampire and Zombie Playing

Project: by David T. Pudelwitts-St. Albans
2nd project, $3,000 goal, $20 for 2 decks-1 each Vampire & Zombie + some prints

Quote
I have been running "The Vampyre Society" on my blogs and FB for many years. I was working for another fellow doing illustrations for his New World Order playing card deck. It just came to me that I could produce sets of cards myself. I started with Vampires, because that is my big passion, having published a book about Dracula. I then determined the closest thing to Vampires is of course Zombies. Both Vampires and Zombies are a huge market right now. Also they have become part of American Culture in a big way. I started looking at other card sets that featured these icons. What I noted was that most cards put out today have regular "pips" (Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs). I determined that if I designed my own pips, people could actually develop entirely new games! When I put the idea past my Vampyre Society membership, they all wanted decks "TODAY!" So I set out designing the card sets 6 months ago and am nearly done.

Quote
The one risk I was aware of was the use of certain "copyrighted images" in the Vampire cards, which have a theme of Vampire Movies. Starting with Noseferatu and ending with Bram Stoker's Dracula. My friend who made his New World Order cards got around this by hiring me to do a digital painting of each copyrighted image! So each card which features say, an old Universal Studios photo is in fact NOT a photo at all! It is a digitally produced painting done by me. It is not a "copy" it is an original. So licensing will not be a problem. The Zombie cards are fully my own copyrighted works.


« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 10:25:19 PM by Rob Wright »
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2013, 11:31:14 PM »
 

Anthony

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I actually kind of like the Queen of Axes, the Brains are, ok..........but Nosferatu and Dracula kind of killed it for me, no pun intended. He also states it's not a novelty deck.....I kind of think it is. But Good Luck to him either way, he seems determined to get them made one way or another.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 11:32:40 PM by Sparkz »
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 12:45:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I don't see this deck succeeding on too many levels to even list here...  I'd strip my mental gears even attempting to go over all of them...
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 06:12:10 AM »
 

ronyo_faukx

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The Queen of Axes(?) seems to be the only half-decent looking card. For the amount of detail in that versus the detail in the Two of Brains, it seems very lackluster.

Plus, as I'm sure one of Don's points would have been, the undead theme feels quite overdone, and the timing is off for a Halloween-esque theme since it's been launched a week after that.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 06:31:31 AM »
 

Mydnyghte

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A screen cap from a movie does not a good illustration make. I'm usually first in line for something featuring Bella Lugosi, or Nosferatu, but this wasn't executed properly. Is that supposed to be a dribble of blood on Lugosi's shirt?
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 11:22:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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A screen cap from a movie does not a good illustration make. I'm usually first in line for something featuring Bella Lugosi, or Nosferatu, but this wasn't executed properly. Is that supposed to be a dribble of blood on Lugosi's shirt?

It's the Ace of Blood Drops...  Oy...
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 07:23:08 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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Zombie cards!

BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE

That being said, this is definitely one of the worst ones. Cheesy, cobbled together, and generally void of effort.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 07:25:01 PM by MrMollusk »
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 11:01:07 PM »
 

Mydnyghte

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If this was shown to the Lugosi family, I wonder if they would band together as a mob of irony and, with torches in hand, march on the creators domain and cast fire upon it. I'd pledge a dollar.
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 12:38:57 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Guys, honestly - it doesn't even deserve THIS much attention.  Sure, we're making fun of it, but the more we post about it, the higher its Google rank gets!  I'm tempted to delete them all now!  :))

Lately, for every really awesome deck, there's at least a half-dozen losers on Kickstarter...  I thought the herd had already been thinned.  I blame you, Jackson, for luring people with your Internet millions!
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 10:46:39 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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I don't see this deck succeeding on too many levels to even list here...  I'd strip my mental gears even attempting to go over all of them...

Wow, thanks for this wonderful almost non-functioning "critique" of my work! Sorry you'd have to strip your mental gears to try and explain what is wrong with something you think won't succeed. Very helpful. I worked pretty hard on my project. And I will thank you to stop making spurious non-comments on it. You aren't helping. And as you say, evil and wrong happens when people don't speak up about it. The internet is full of critics. But not so full of creators.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 10:51:11 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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If this was shown to the Lugosi family, I wonder if they would band together as a mob of irony and, with torches in hand, march on the creators domain and cast fire upon it. I'd pledge a dollar.

Hahahahaha! What? Wait. What on earth does the Lugosi family have to do with this? Is this some sort of put-down of the artwork? I'd love to know, since I did the artwork. And I think it is pretty damned close to the original photo. Here, I'll prove it...So where's my dollar?
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 10:54:33 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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Zombie cards!

BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE

That being said, this is definitely one of the worst ones. Cheesy, cobbled together, and generally void of effort.

Cobbled together? Let's see YOUR efforts then. It's taken me six months to do this project. It is far from cobbled. It's critics like you that talk a big game on-line and stunt creativity wherever you go. I'm sorry my work isn't up to your lofty standards... but then again, who are YOU again?
I do not suffer trolls lightly!
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 10:57:46 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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The Queen of Axes(?) seems to be the only half-decent looking card. For the amount of detail in that versus the detail in the Two of Brains, it seems very lackluster.

Plus, as I'm sure one of Don's points would have been, the undead theme feels quite overdone, and the timing is off for a Halloween-esque theme since it's been launched a week after that.

The brains are not supposed to be detailed. They are supposed to be easily read. My research showed that most of the Horror cards on the market are not easily read at all and this makes them (perhaps) collectible, but not useful in games. I wanted my cards to be useful as spades, diamonds, etc. you don't see any detail in regular pips.
I do not suffer trolls lightly!
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 11:02:33 PM »
 

Anthony

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I'm no critic, I gave my 2 cents, but that being said, you can't "Copy" an existing image and call it your own just because you took pen to hand. Yes, a very good reproduction, but hardly creative.
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 11:35:13 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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SaintAlbans - First, you need to grow some tough skin.  Second, try not to double post.  Third, ask some questions. 

Also there is another forum talking about your deck.  Check it out:   http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2507

I have to warn you there is this guy BM pokerworld ...  ahhh you'll figure it out...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 11:48:08 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2013, 12:40:58 AM »
 

volantangel

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If this was shown to the Lugosi family, I wonder if they would band together as a mob of irony and, with torches in hand, march on the creators domain and cast fire upon it. I'd pledge a dollar.

Hahahahaha! What? Wait. What on earth does the Lugosi family have to do with this? Is this some sort of put-down of the artwork? I'd love to know, since I did the artwork. And I think it is pretty damned close to the original photo. Here, I'll prove it...So where's my dollar?

HAHAHA YOU DID THE ARTWORK ? YOU DREW THAT ? Dont bullshit us, its a cropped, resized, lower resolution, contrast increased (to have areas overexposed, seriously ?!) image of a screen grab. if you really did re-draw this, why didnt you just draw in your clip-arty blood drop ?

Seriously, stop questioning our intelligence. Dont take us for kids here. With less than $500 in pledges, sorry the truth hurts.

p.s. your blood drop or whatever looks like a red sperm.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 12:45:41 AM by volantangel »
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2013, 01:35:36 AM »
 

MrMollusk

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Zombie cards!

BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE

That being said, this is definitely one of the worst ones. Cheesy, cobbled together, and generally void of effort.

Cobbled together? Let's see YOUR efforts then. It's taken me six months to do this project. It is far from cobbled. It's critics like you that talk a big game on-line and stunt creativity wherever you go. I'm sorry my work isn't up to your lofty standards... but then again, who are YOU again?

Someone with a brain and a good taste in design.

The deck is lazy, the premise is old and cliche, the theme is cheesy and non-cohesive, the "artwork" is unoriginal and sloppy, the execution is pathetic, the project is a mess, and the designer is delusional.

Take a gander at some other decks on Kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1244376122/pagan-custom-playing-cards
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/erikmana/mana-playing-cards-zinfandel-and-indigo
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1722808047/sherlock-holmes-a-playing-card-deck

See? These have something called "effort" put into the design. They're creative, they're fresh, they're direct and elegant, and they're absolutely amazing.
The response to your deck was unanimous. We all thought it was bad. Because it is.

Now you can spend another hour on the forum wining about it, or you could roll up your sleeves and get to actually designing a deck.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2013, 06:39:29 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I don't see this deck succeeding on too many levels to even list here...  I'd strip my mental gears even attempting to go over all of them...

Wow, thanks for this wonderful almost non-functioning "critique" of my work! Sorry you'd have to strip your mental gears to try and explain what is wrong with something you think won't succeed. Very helpful. I worked pretty hard on my project. And I will thank you to stop making spurious non-comments on it. You aren't helping. And as you say, evil and wrong happens when people don't speak up about it. The internet is full of critics. But not so full of creators.

What, the other critiques weren't enough?

Kidding aside, there are several conventions people generally pay heed to when designing custom decks in order to retain a high level of functionality.  You deck lacks quite a few of them.  Now, in design, it's OK to break a "golden rule" or two, but you have to be doing so for a reason, not just for the hell of it, or your design won't be very appealing.

Your "digital art"...  If I break out the Paint software and recreate the Mona Lisa in great and loving detail - it's still the Mona Lisa!  Putting copyright issues aside, I'm doing the same job a computer scanner or photocopier can do, except I'm doing it the hard way.  What's worse is that it doesn't matter how many hours I put into making a copy of someone else's work, people will still dismiss it because of a lack of originality - it's STILL someone else's work.  Man-hours =/= creativity.  You're not even making an effort to transform the art in any significant way as an expression of creativity - you're slavishly trying to mimic it as closely as possible.

Inventing your own pips - this is often a road to disaster.  Not always, but often.  Especially if the pips are NOT iconic and simple.

Pips aside, indices should be quickly and easily readable.  The more elaborate a typeface you use, the more difficult it becomes to identify your cards swiftly.

Your cards - courts are two-headed, aces have pictures like courts and are not two-headed.  I'm scratching my head at this.

You failed to make a proper distinction between the Zombie deck and the Vampire deck in terms of what cards belong to which deck.  So I'm wondering about seeing cards that have shaded indices and cards that don't - I'm presuming they're the two different decks.  So, how far are you into the design phase of this deck?  All we've seen so far are a few cards - no uncut sheet, not even a tuck box, and you're creating TWO completely different decks, not just one.  Lacking any real knowledge of how far you're into this, we have to guess based on the evidence available, which leads us to believe that the March 2014 delivery date is optimistic at best.

Speaking of delivering in March, have you factored in the increase in postal rates scheduled for January?  Even the world's cheapest printer needs to be paid, and short-run decks have the highest per-deck costs.  At your first reward that actually includes a deck, you're taking $20 in exchange for one deck of each card, a signed first-run card...AND a "framable 8x10 print".  The last time I saw a creator offer me such a print, it was printed on office white paper with a basic inkjet printer.  "Framable," sure, but would anyone want to frame that?  But putting that aside, you're looking at a mailer that can accommodate either a tube for your poster or a flat, stiff envelope AND those two decks.  This will not be cheap to deliver on.  You'd need to not only pay for the postage, but you'd have to provide the packing materials and packaging to insure the decks and print arrive intact.  This will leave you with a very tight if not non-existent profit margin.

You mentioned a stretch goal: If the projected goal goes to $12,000 I will connect with the USPCC and BICYCLE companies to produce branded BICYCLE tm card decks.  Most of us being knowledgable collectors and some of us being experienced deck designers, we know two things.  First, BICYCLE and USPC are NOT two different companies!  Bicycle is a brand name, nothing more.  It's like your breakfast cereal being made by General Mills AND the Cheerios Corp., Ltd.  Second, the minimum for a basic print run with USPC would be $8,000 to $10,000 for 2,500 decks.  This price can increase dramatically the more customized and feature-filled the design becomes.  These would be two separate print runs, so the bare-bones minimum for two decks without even having custom faces, just the backs, would be at least $16,000, probably more, leaving you very, VERY short on funds to complete the project.  These facts tell people you aren't terribly knowledgable yourself about these things and that you haven't done adequate research to make up for your lack of personal experience.

And then there's the timing.  There have been countless decks, both from Kickstarter and from larger companies who self-financed their work, that have covered these themes, and they've mostly done so far better than you have.  The market is oversaturated with these deck themes - any attempt to delve into it again has to be such astounding work as to stand head-and-shoulders above anything that came before it, lest it be completely ignored by the market.  This unfortunately does not describe your deck.

I haven't even begun to touch on all the problems this deck has.  This is merely a sampling.  I consult with playing card designers, helping them make their decks more functional and appealing to the market.  This project, and I don't mean this with so much as a drop of vitriol, is a very amateurish attempt at making playing cards.  This doesn't make you a bad person, and it doesn't mean we hate you.  We're just extremely particular about cards because we're passionate about our hobby.  There are so many breathtakingly beautiful projects out there, some of which have been pointed out to you - it makes it difficult to generate enthusiasm for your work.  The art on your zombie deck is more original and actually has potential, but again, if it's not absolutely fantastic, it could be difficult if not impossible to get it funded.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 06:47:30 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2013, 01:00:27 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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I'm no critic, I gave my 2 cents, but that being said, you can't "Copy" an existing image and call it your own just because you took pen to hand. Yes, a very good reproduction, but hardly creative.

I am not  "copying an existing image and calling it my own." I am getting past copyright conflicts by reproducing an old photo from the ground up, so it is my work and not simply lifted from the net. According to copyright laws an image is only a "copy" if someone takes the ORIGINAL photograph, at it's original size, etc. and does nothing to change it. I am using photos from the internet which are not high resolution copies of the original, in order to produce a vampire movie "themed" card set. I do not say these are "my images." However I did digitally paint them from the ground up. Please watch to video on Kickstarter to see this process. Thanks.
I do not suffer trolls lightly!
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2013, 01:07:24 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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Zombie cards!

BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE

That being said, this is definitely one of the worst ones. Cheesy, cobbled together, and generally void of effort.

Cobbled together? Let's see YOUR efforts then. It's taken me six months to do this project. It is far from cobbled. It's critics like you that talk a big game on-line and stunt creativity wherever you go. I'm sorry my work isn't up to your lofty standards... but then again, who are YOU again?

Someone with a brain and a good taste in design.

The deck is lazy, the premise is old and cliche, the theme is cheesy and non-cohesive, the "artwork" is unoriginal and sloppy, the execution is pathetic, the project is a mess, and the designer is delusional.

Take a gander at some other decks on Kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1244376122/pagan-custom-playing-cards
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/erikmana/mana-playing-cards-zinfandel-and-indigo
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1722808047/sherlock-holmes-a-playing-card-deck

See? These have something called "effort" put into the design. They're creative, they're fresh, they're direct and elegant, and they're absolutely amazing.
The response to your deck was unanimous. We all thought it was bad. Because it is.

Now you can spend another hour on the forum wining about it, or you could roll up your sleeves and get to actually designing a deck.

First the word is whining. Not wining. Second this type of trolling may make you feel great about yourself, but is less than useless. My designs are as fresh and interesting as most designs I have researched on line. You think it is bad, because you are jealous. I don;t see your art work displayed here. And you obviously did not watch my video, nor have you researched my other work. I am attempting to make two card decks that are "low tech." They are to be useful, not artistic. You want to see artistic? here is some of my art. One day I may put it on a card deck, But that will be when I am able to. Meanwhile I am a better artist, more creative and published more than YOU WILL EVER BE. So troll away. Flame all you like. And hide behind a group. All you do is hurt people. Which is the only function you seem to have. I hope Krampus finds you and all the other little trolls here to be quite delicious!
I do not suffer trolls lightly!
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2013, 01:25:07 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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I don't see this deck succeeding on too many levels to even list here...  I'd strip my mental gears even attempting to go over all of them...

Wow, thanks for this wonderful almost non-functioning "critique" of my work! Sorry you'd have to strip your mental gears to try and explain what is wrong with something you think won't succeed. Very helpful. I worked pretty hard on my project. And I will thank you to stop making spurious non-comments on it. You aren't helping. And as you say, evil and wrong happens when people don't speak up about it. The internet is full of critics. But not so full of creators.

What, the other critiques weren't enough?

Kidding aside, there are several conventions people generally pay heed to when designing custom decks in order to retain a high level of functionality.  You deck lacks quite a few of them.  Now, in design, it's OK to break a "golden rule" or two, but you have to be doing so for a reason, not just for the hell of it, or your design won't be very appealing.

Your "digital art"...  If I break out the Paint software and recreate the Mona Lisa in great and loving detail - it's still the Mona Lisa!  Putting copyright issues aside, I'm doing the same job a computer scanner or photocopier can do, except I'm doing it the hard way.  What's worse is that it doesn't matter how many hours I put into making a copy of someone else's work, people will still dismiss it because of a lack of originality - it's STILL someone else's work.  Man-hours =/= creativity.  You're not even making an effort to transform the art in any significant way as an expression of creativity - you're slavishly trying to mimic it as closely as possible.

Inventing your own pips - this is often a road to disaster.  Not always, but often.  Especially if the pips are NOT iconic and simple.

Pips aside, indices should be quickly and easily readable.  The more elaborate a typeface you use, the more difficult it becomes to identify your cards swiftly.

Your cards - courts are two-headed, aces have pictures like courts and are not two-headed.  I'm scratching my head at this.

You failed to make a proper distinction between the Zombie deck and the Vampire deck in terms of what cards belong to which deck.  So I'm wondering about seeing cards that have shaded indices and cards that don't - I'm presuming they're the two different decks.  So, how far are you into the design phase of this deck?  All we've seen so far are a few cards - no uncut sheet, not even a tuck box, and you're creating TWO completely different decks, not just one.  Lacking any real knowledge of how far you're into this, we have to guess based on the evidence available, which leads us to believe that the March 2014 delivery date is optimistic at best.

Speaking of delivering in March, have you factored in the increase in postal rates scheduled for January?  Even the world's cheapest printer needs to be paid, and short-run decks have the highest per-deck costs.  At your first reward that actually includes a deck, you're taking $20 in exchange for one deck of each card, a signed first-run card...AND a "framable 8x10 print".  The last time I saw a creator offer me such a print, it was printed on office white paper with a basic inkjet printer.  "Framable," sure, but would anyone want to frame that?  But putting that aside, you're looking at a mailer that can accommodate either a tube for your poster or a flat, stiff envelope AND those two decks.  This will not be cheap to deliver on.  You'd need to not only pay for the postage, but you'd have to provide the packing materials and packaging to insure the decks and print arrive intact.  This will leave you with a very tight if not non-existent profit margin.

You mentioned a stretch goal: If the projected goal goes to $12,000 I will connect with the USPCC and BICYCLE companies to produce branded BICYCLE tm card decks.  Most of us being knowledgable collectors and some of us being experienced deck designers, we know two things.  First, BICYCLE and USPC are NOT two different companies!  Bicycle is a brand name, nothing more.  It's like your breakfast cereal being made by General Mills AND the Cheerios Corp., Ltd.  Second, the minimum for a basic print run with USPC would be $8,000 to $10,000 for 2,500 decks.  This price can increase dramatically the more customized and feature-filled the design becomes.  These would be two separate print runs, so the bare-bones minimum for two decks without even having custom faces, just the backs, would be at least $16,000, probably more, leaving you very, VERY short on funds to complete the project.  These facts tell people you aren't terribly knowledgable yourself about these things and that you haven't done adequate research to make up for your lack of personal experience.

And then there's the timing.  There have been countless decks, both from Kickstarter and from larger companies who self-financed their work, that have covered these themes, and they've mostly done so far better than you have.  The market is oversaturated with these deck themes - any attempt to delve into it again has to be such astounding work as to stand head-and-shoulders above anything that came before it, lest it be completely ignored by the market.  This unfortunately does not describe your deck.

I haven't even begun to touch on all the problems this deck has.  This is merely a sampling.  I consult with playing card designers, helping them make their decks more functional and appealing to the market.  This project, and I don't mean this with so much as a drop of vitriol, is a very amateurish attempt at making playing cards.  This doesn't make you a bad person, and it doesn't mean we hate you.  We're just extremely particular about cards because we're passionate about our hobby.  There are so many breathtakingly beautiful projects out there, some of which have been pointed out to you - it makes it difficult to generate enthusiasm for your work.  The art on your zombie deck is more original and actually has potential, but again, if it's not absolutely fantastic, it could be difficult if not impossible to get it funded.

Well, at least you aren't just trolling and flaming now. I am trying to make a card deck that anyone can have some fun with. Not all players and collectors are looking for something over-the-top. I am going low tech on this so people of every stripe can find the cards useful. I have tried Kickstarter before, and of course failed. As most people do. That is not a fear I have or a concern. I am testing the waters here. We will see what happens. But being told in a lame and desultory manner by a group that my cards basically suck, for no other reason than they have an opinion, is not helpful, neither to the human spirit, the artist or the topic at hand. So, you can back with some very interesting and thought provoking things. I will take them all under consideration. And I thank you for taking some of your time to do this. Believe me, if I can get this funded, the frameable print won't be inkjet on office paper. I am an artist. Not a slacker. I know what  a frameable print is. I can see almost no one here did any research on me as an artist or a pro. You can see my work at http://facebook.com/saintalbans1. Also look at the video. It shows exactly how I did the photos reproduced on the cards. As for Bicycle...OK, I put an "and" where I shouldn't have. Sorry. But yes I know it's the same company. I will correct that. Thanks. I seriously doubt I will raise $17,000 or even the whole $3,000 I need, especially when I've got a passle of snipers out for my blood right now! Haha!  As for the copyrighted materials from like Universal Studios, my method is to build a digital piece of art from the ground up. It is not "photoshopped" or cobbled together. It is a painstaking tribute to iconic photos. Please, again, watch the video on Kickstarter. It explains my method. The first Vampire Deck is a Movie Themed deck. Others will be more me. But I am starting with movies for a reason, because everyone knows movie vampires. Which I thought would appeal to those who do not just want to see wild, gory and phantasmagorical art (as most Vampire cards display.) There is a method to my madness. And you  may be right. I may be crazy for even doing this. But NOBODY better say I have not worked for a huge amount of time to come up with a FUN and playable deck of cards. I am working on the box now. Which is why I gave myself 60 days and not 30. I hope you can see that I am a thoughtful person, with talent, who may need guidance, but who finds abusive trolling comments and flames to be simply evil. I've dealt with it before. Your first comment was so dismissive I thought it came from someone who was braindead and given over to nothing but trolling. Instead you, above all the others commenting, have come up with some really good thoughts. So I salute you.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2013, 01:31:01 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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If this was shown to the Lugosi family, I wonder if they would band together as a mob of irony and, with torches in hand, march on the creators domain and cast fire upon it. I'd pledge a dollar.

Hahahahaha! What? Wait. What on earth does the Lugosi family have to do with this? Is this some sort of put-down of the artwork? I'd love to know, since I did the artwork. And I think it is pretty damned close to the original photo. Here, I'll prove it...So where's my dollar?

HAHAHA YOU DID THE ARTWORK ? YOU DREW THAT ? Dont bullshit us, its a cropped, resized, lower resolution, contrast increased (to have areas overexposed, seriously ?!) image of a screen grab. if you really did re-draw this, why didnt you just draw in your clip-arty blood drop ?

Seriously, stop questioning our intelligence. Dont take us for kids here. With less than $500 in pledges, sorry the truth hurts.

p.s. your blood drop or whatever looks like a red sperm.

First off, you never even looked at the Kickstarter project page. So you never saw the video that shows how I did the work. So you are wrong. Secondly you wouldn't know a sperm from a sperm whale! Question your intelligence? What intelligence? I see no intelligence from you! You're just a troll. You are a fool and a hurtful, useless soul. What on earth compels people like you? You think you would say ANY of this to my face? No. Of course not. You're just a jealous clod with a forum. And further, you're just full of your own self-importance and B.S. So be a man, or a woman, or whatever you are, and try to force out a sentence or two that are really hurtful. I don;t think you have it in you!
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2013, 01:34:53 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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Vampire and Zombie Playing

Project: by David T. Pudelwitts-St. Albans
2nd project, $3,000 goal, $20 for 2 decks-1 each Vampire & Zombie + some prints

Quote
I have been running "The Vampyre Society" on my blogs and FB for many years. I was working for another fellow doing illustrations for his New World Order playing card deck. It just came to me that I could produce sets of cards myself. I started with Vampires, because that is my big passion, having published a book about Dracula. I then determined the closest thing to Vampires is of course Zombies. Both Vampires and Zombies are a huge market right now. Also they have become part of American Culture in a big way. I started looking at other card sets that featured these icons. What I noted was that most cards put out today have regular "pips" (Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs). I determined that if I designed my own pips, people could actually develop entirely new games! When I put the idea past my Vampyre Society membership, they all wanted decks "TODAY!" So I set out designing the card sets 6 months ago and am nearly done.

Quote
The one risk I was aware of was the use of certain "copyrighted images" in the Vampire cards, which have a theme of Vampire Movies. Starting with Noseferatu and ending with Bram Stoker's Dracula. My friend who made his New World Order cards got around this by hiring me to do a digital painting of each copyrighted image! So each card which features say, an old Universal Studios photo is in fact NOT a photo at all! It is a digitally produced painting done by me. It is not a "copy" it is an original. So licensing will not be a problem. The Zombie cards are fully my own copyrighted works.




If you keep going to my project page you'll see more cards. That's what the project page is for, updates, etc. And watch the video. Thanks!
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2013, 02:51:18 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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Zombie cards!

BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE

That being said, this is definitely one of the worst ones. Cheesy, cobbled together, and generally void of effort.

And you are? And you are an expert because? I see nothing in your profile. Maybe because you are too afraid to reveal yourself? At any rate it often gives me a chuckle when people who try to prick you, tell you to get a thicker skin. I think it is better when people stop being pinpricks. You further do not know what sort of effort went into this. But at least I can say that in this life, I made an effort. Sorry that displeases you. And, by the way no one has done this before that I know of. I have new pips, a theme for both decks, and readable, fun cards that aren't over-the-top. And you, all you have is a lot of nerve.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2013, 03:06:46 PM »
 

SaintAlbans

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I don't see this deck succeeding on too many levels to even list here...  I'd strip my mental gears even attempting to go over all of them...

Sorry my replies to these posts may have been duplicated, new to this style and format of chat.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2013, 03:50:57 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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Zombie cards!

BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE

That being said, this is definitely one of the worst ones. Cheesy, cobbled together, and generally void of effort.

Cobbled together? Let's see YOUR efforts then. It's taken me six months to do this project. It is far from cobbled. It's critics like you that talk a big game on-line and stunt creativity wherever you go. I'm sorry my work isn't up to your lofty standards... but then again, who are YOU again?

Someone with a brain and a good taste in design.

The deck is lazy, the premise is old and cliche, the theme is cheesy and non-cohesive, the "artwork" is unoriginal and sloppy, the execution is pathetic, the project is a mess, and the designer is delusional.

Take a gander at some other decks on Kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1244376122/pagan-custom-playing-cards
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/erikmana/mana-playing-cards-zinfandel-and-indigo
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1722808047/sherlock-holmes-a-playing-card-deck

See? These have something called "effort" put into the design. They're creative, they're fresh, they're direct and elegant, and they're absolutely amazing.
The response to your deck was unanimous. We all thought it was bad. Because it is.

Now you can spend another hour on the forum wining about it, or you could roll up your sleeves and get to actually designing a deck.

First the word is whining. Not wining. Second this type of trolling may make you feel great about yourself, but is less than useless. My designs are as fresh and interesting as most designs I have researched on line. You think it is bad, because you are jealous. I don;t see your art work displayed here. And you obviously did not watch my video, nor have you researched my other work. I am attempting to make two card decks that are "low tech." They are to be useful, not artistic. You want to see artistic? here is some of my art. One day I may put it on a card deck, But that will be when I am able to. Meanwhile I am a better artist, more creative and published more than YOU WILL EVER BE. So troll away. Flame all you like. And hide behind a group. All you do is hurt people. Which is the only function you seem to have. I hope Krampus finds you and all the other little trolls here to be quite delicious!

Fresh and interesting? No they aren't. They're just piggy-backing off other's greatness. The zombie deck may be original art, but the theme has been beaten to hell and back again.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dernjg/postumo-the-deck-of-the-dead?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2031961868/return-of-the-deck-of-the-living-dead?ref=search
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/344063227/zombie-origin-deck-of-cards-and-bonus-zombies-arrg?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warpunk/zombie-black-playing-cards-back-from-the-dead?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warpunk/zombie-white-playing-cards-grave-digger-card-game?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1380678895/zombie-shuffle?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527023912/the-ultimate-zombie-deck?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1579081716/zombie-riders-bicycle-playing-cards?ref=live

Yep. Original idea. My art isn't displayed here because it's not pertinent to playing cards. It's primarily papercutting and ceramics. But if you're so insecure that you need someone to compare yourself to, I posted some of my stuff here. If I was to be jealous, I would be jealous of Uusi's team, Jackson Robinson, Paul Carpenter, or a plethora of other talented, creative designers.

If you wanted the deck to be functional, why did you create the least functional suits possible? Which suit is high? Which one is low? Are the brains "red" or "black"?

Accomplished artist? Please. You've hashed together a few cruddy Kickstarter projects (One of which failed, and the other about to fail) and did a few commissions. Hardly a strong reputation.

My page doesn't have personal information because it doesn't need personal information. I'm not designing a deck, so why do you need a Tumblr or Deviantart? I'm not reviewing decks, so why do you need a Youtube account?

The true mark of an insecure designer is one who equates opinion to trolling. Give Don a call. Maybe he can put this train wreck back on the rails.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2013, 04:32:36 PM »
 

sqratch

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Zombie cards!

BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE

That being said, this is definitely one of the worst ones. Cheesy, cobbled together, and generally void of effort.

Cobbled together? Let's see YOUR efforts then. It's taken me six months to do this project. It is far from cobbled. It's critics like you that talk a big game on-line and stunt creativity wherever you go. I'm sorry my work isn't up to your lofty standards... but then again, who are YOU again?

Someone with a brain and a good taste in design.

The deck is lazy, the premise is old and cliche, the theme is cheesy and non-cohesive, the "artwork" is unoriginal and sloppy, the execution is pathetic, the project is a mess, and the designer is delusional.

Take a gander at some other decks on Kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1244376122/pagan-custom-playing-cards
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/erikmana/mana-playing-cards-zinfandel-and-indigo
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1722808047/sherlock-holmes-a-playing-card-deck

See? These have something called "effort" put into the design. They're creative, they're fresh, they're direct and elegant, and they're absolutely amazing.
The response to your deck was unanimous. We all thought it was bad. Because it is.

Now you can spend another hour on the forum wining about it, or you could roll up your sleeves and get to actually designing a deck.

First the word is whining. Not wining. Second this type of trolling may make you feel great about yourself, but is less than useless. My designs are as fresh and interesting as most designs I have researched on line. You think it is bad, because you are jealous. I don;t see your art work displayed here. And you obviously did not watch my video, nor have you researched my other work. I am attempting to make two card decks that are "low tech." They are to be useful, not artistic. You want to see artistic? here is some of my art. One day I may put it on a card deck, But that will be when I am able to. Meanwhile I am a better artist, more creative and published more than YOU WILL EVER BE. So troll away. Flame all you like. And hide behind a group. All you do is hurt people. Which is the only function you seem to have. I hope Krampus finds you and all the other little trolls here to be quite delicious!

Fresh and interesting? No they aren't. They're just piggy-backing off other's greatness. The zombie deck may be original art, but the theme has been beaten to hell and back again.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dernjg/postumo-the-deck-of-the-dead?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2031961868/return-of-the-deck-of-the-living-dead?ref=search
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/344063227/zombie-origin-deck-of-cards-and-bonus-zombies-arrg?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warpunk/zombie-black-playing-cards-back-from-the-dead?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warpunk/zombie-white-playing-cards-grave-digger-card-game?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1380678895/zombie-shuffle?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527023912/the-ultimate-zombie-deck?ref=live
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1579081716/zombie-riders-bicycle-playing-cards?ref=live

Yep. Original idea. My art isn't displayed here because it's not pertinent to playing cards. It's primarily papercutting and ceramics. But if you're so insecure that you need someone to compare yourself to, I posted some of my stuff here. If I was to be jealous, I would be jealous of Uusi's team, Jackson Robinson, Paul Carpenter, or a plethora of other talented, creative designers.

If you wanted the deck to be functional, why did you create the least functional suits possible? Which suit is high? Which one is low? Are the brains "red" or "black"?

Accomplished artist? Please. You've hashed together a few cruddy Kickstarter projects (One of which failed, and the other about to fail) and did a few commissions. Hardly a strong reputation.

My page doesn't have personal information because it doesn't need personal information. I'm not designing a deck, so why do you need a Tumblr or Deviantart? I'm not reviewing decks, so why do you need a Youtube account?

The true mark of an insecure designer is one who equates opinion to trolling. Give Don a call. Maybe he can put this train wreck back on the rails.

AMEN to that bro!!!!

Nicely stated.
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2013, 10:10:43 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Well, at least you aren't just trolling and flaming now. I am trying to make a card deck that anyone can have some fun with. Not all players and collectors are looking for something over-the-top. I am going low tech on this so people of every stripe can find the cards useful. I have tried Kickstarter before, and of course failed. As most people do. That is not a fear I have or a concern. I am testing the waters here. We will see what happens. But being told in a lame and desultory manner by a group that my cards basically suck, for no other reason than they have an opinion, is not helpful, neither to the human spirit, the artist or the topic at hand. So, you can back with some very interesting and thought provoking things. I will take them all under consideration. And I thank you for taking some of your time to do this. Believe me, if I can get this funded, the frameable print won't be inkjet on office paper. I am an artist. Not a slacker. I know what  a frameable print is. I can see almost no one here did any research on me as an artist or a pro. You can see my work at http://facebook.com/saintalbans1. Also look at the video. It shows exactly how I did the photos reproduced on the cards. As for Bicycle...OK, I put an "and" where I shouldn't have. Sorry. But yes I know it's the same company. I will correct that. Thanks. I seriously doubt I will raise $17,000 or even the whole $3,000 I need, especially when I've got a passle of snipers out for my blood right now! Haha!  As for the copyrighted materials from like Universal Studios, my method is to build a digital piece of art from the ground up. It is not "photoshopped" or cobbled together. It is a painstaking tribute to iconic photos. Please, again, watch the video on Kickstarter. It explains my method. The first Vampire Deck is a Movie Themed deck. Others will be more me. But I am starting with movies for a reason, because everyone knows movie vampires. Which I thought would appeal to those who do not just want to see wild, gory and phantasmagorical art (as most Vampire cards display.) There is a method to my madness. And you  may be right. I may be crazy for even doing this. But NOBODY better say I have not worked for a huge amount of time to come up with a FUN and playable deck of cards. I am working on the box now. Which is why I gave myself 60 days and not 30. I hope you can see that I am a thoughtful person, with talent, who may need guidance, but who finds abusive trolling comments and flames to be simply evil. I've dealt with it before. Your first comment was so dismissive I thought it came from someone who was braindead and given over to nothing but trolling. Instead you, above all the others commenting, have come up with some really good thoughts. So I salute you.

First, I must ask that you not double, triple and quadruple-post.  Just put it all in one post - you can add multiple quotes to a single post.

Even in your replies, you don't seem to clearly understand some of what was mentioned.  Your deck might be "fun", but "playable" is a bit more debatable.

The fact that you seriously doubt you'll raise $17,000 doesn't change the fact that your project has you committed to printing with USPC if you reach $12,000.  YOU WON'T HAVE THE NECESSARY FUNDS TO MEET SUCH A COMMITMENT.  The fact that the commitment is still there tells people that you really don't know what you're doing and puts your ability to deliver on these decks under any circumstances into serious doubt.  Worse, it makes them think you'll never deliver the decks and abscond with the funds if you do hit your goal - it wouldn't be the first time it's happened on Kickstarter.

You choose to call your vampire court images a "painstaking tribute" to the original photos.  But that matters not one bit if everyone else is looking at those same images and thinking "slightly-altered copy" - because regarding of what you call them, that's what they look like and are perceived as, it doesn't matter how painstaking of a tribute they happen to be.  You don't appear to have understood the part where I mentioned that man-hours do not equal creativity.  If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and smells like a duck, you can call it a horse all you want - everyone else will still call it a duck, even if it really is a horse.  Again, none of that even touches on the copyright issue - and should you ever print with USPC, if you don't own your work lock, stock and barrel, it will not get printed by them, period.  Their Legal Department are cold-hearted and implacable when it comes to their company being exposed to liability or IP infringement.

Stop abusing the terms "trolling", "flaming", etc.  It's not helping your cause one bit.  You may feel that we have been desultory and that we hurt your feelings.  But you should consider something from that - if one person tells you something's black, you may think it's white and disagree with them.  But the more people who tell you it's black, the harder it becomes to deny the possibility that it may indeed be black...

I could go on for quite some time about this, but unfortunately there are only so many hours in a day and so many things that must get accomplished in them.  My best advice: close this project, complete your designs, create two separate projects.  Ditch the photo reproductions and use original art.  Adjust your designs to account for inclusion of most if not all of the common playing card conventions.  Go over the suggestions you've been given, carefully evaluate them objectively, take the ones that work, ignore the ones that don't.  Count every single penny you're going to need to spend to get this project from drawing board to printing press to every backer's mailbox and use that figure as a starting point for determining your goal and stretch goals.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2013, 11:22:21 PM »
 

4pm Designer

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I tried not to comment but I just have to say something about this. Running with what Don has mentioned about the copyright issues...you're gonna have copyright issues. Just in case you have any questions about my "expertise", other than running 3 successful kickstarter campaigns for playing cards, I also work in the film industry. Primarily in the horror genre and ironically enough worked with Universal. Regardless of whatever "tribute" artwork you will claim, it's quite obvious it's just a modified image. What you don't seem to understand about copyright law when it comes to film is that studios own not only rights to those images but the LIKENESS of those characters. For example: you can have an illustrator/artist create an original piece of work that has never been emulated in the films, BUT if the character resembles a copyrighted character, in this case Lugosi's Dracula owned by Universal and Chris Lee's Dracula from the hammer films who Warner Bros owns, you will without a shadow of a doubt get sued. They own everything that would resemble their Dracula from Lugosi's widow peak to his cape and in this case, it's a no brainer. My advise, start over and make your own original vampire illustrations. If by any chance this current project funds, believe me when I say, you will have legal issues.

Best of luck

Creator of Legacy, The Grid, Grid 2.0 & Mythos: Necronomicon Bicycle® Playing Cards. CEO of 4PM DESIGNS.
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2013, 01:32:53 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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Yep. Original idea. My art isn't displayed here because it's not pertinent to playing cards. It's primarily papercutting and ceramics. But if you're so insecure that you need someone to compare yourself to, I posted some of my stuff here. If I was to be jealous, I would be jealous of Uusi's team, Jackson Robinson, Paul Carpenter, or a plethora of other talented, creative designers.


Mollusk- some cool stuff. I really like the bowls.

This thing is pretty neat to,



but what is it?

You should drop some of your work in the talk park sometimes.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2013, 08:03:39 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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You should drop some of your work in the talk park sometimes.

Agreed.  This isn't just off-topic, it's not even from the same continent...  It needed a passport just to get here!  :))

If you want to reply to that, please - in Talk Park.
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2013, 11:52:16 AM »
 

MrMollusk

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You should drop some of your work in the talk park sometimes.

Agreed.  This isn't just off-topic, it's not even from the same continent...  It needed a passport just to get here!  :))

If you want to reply to that, please - in Talk Park.

Sorry. I tried to make the link as discrete as possible.

I wouldn't have posted it if the designer didn't ask me.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 11:52:31 AM by MrMollusk »
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2013, 12:04:45 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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Lets do a break down.  Lets say you get a tube to mail your 8x10 print.  Each 9" S-5813 tube cost .63 from Uline:http://www.uline.com/BL_3653/Kraft-Tubes

Lets say the tube and contents is 2 ounces and you mail it USPS.  It will cost $2.07 for First-class parcel and .90 for USPS tracking. http://postcalc.usps.com
 
I assume your going to mail the first print run card in an envelop.  So .10 for the envelop and .48 for the postage.

So far your $4.18 into your $5 reward and that does not include the cost of your print.  How much is your 8x10 print cost?

Your reward is not clear.  What is half off whole sell price.  I know the price for a USPCC unbranded deck is about $2.25 and for other playing card manufactures you can get them as cheaply as $1.10 per deck.  Can you please explain your reward?  Your 23 days into your Kickstarter you must have an idea where you are going with this.

I have also noticed you included "shipping anywhere in the world"  in this reward, but did not include a shipping fee for international backers.  International backers may be confused if they should pledge to this reward or not.   
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 12:28:29 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2013, 01:07:04 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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You should drop some of your work in the talk park sometimes.

Agreed.  This isn't just off-topic, it's not even from the same continent...  It needed a passport just to get here!  :))

If you want to reply to that, please - in Talk Park.

Sorry. I tried to make the link as discrete as possible.

I wouldn't have posted it if the designer didn't ask me.
Sorry M.
I think Don was yelling at me more than you. I just think your projects are more interesting then this one.
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2013, 02:12:24 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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I think Don was yelling at me more than you. I just think your projects are more interesting then this one.

Thanks!



For once, Sprouts actually makes sense. Some of the rewards are priced just at the shipping cost. You're going to run into more trouble with shipping if you get past the copyright spat.

Also, if you are printing with the USPCC, the cost will be twice as much because you have 2 decks. You can have a larger print run without paying the starting fees if you have one design, but you're going to have to pay twice as much with 2 designs.

My advice: Close this project, drop one deck or the other, talk with Don, get things sorted and planned out, refine the design, and start a new project with only one deck. The ideal option would be to choose a theme that hasn't been done and done again, but it looks like you're already knee-deep in the design.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 02:12:45 PM by MrMollusk »
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Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2013, 12:31:09 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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From his update:  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/94152115/vampire-and-zombie-playing-card-decks-project/posts

"There's a couple of these "Playing Card Collector" sites who seem to be hell bent on destroying the whole Kickstarter culture by making really nasty comments about people's work on these sites. Then those comments goes out to the internet and thousands of prospective backers beg out. They claim to be experts. But most don't even have a website or a bio to look at. And the comments, just trash talk. They didn't even watch my video or really ever look at what I was trying to do.

I want all my backers and supporters to know that these cards were thought out and much of it drawn out by hand or digitally. These have been works that have taken six months to produce. I even produced my own Zombie Font for the Zombie Deck. The only non-St. Albans work is the font on the Vampire deck. But since all these trolls want to play the troll card, I might make up my own font for that as well. The artwork on the Court Cards for the Vampire deck are all digitally painted from the ground up by me. Anyone looking at the video will see the technique I used. These are not photoshopped reproductions. These are lovingly re-crafted digital works. Yes, they are essentially "copies" of old photos. But the effort is monumental. It is a work of love. I wanted movie themed cards that were recognizable to everyone. Using the photos owned by Universal Studio or others would have been prohibitive.

Anyway, some of you like what I am doing! And I really appreciate this! Have a Happy Thanksgiving!"


I give up on this guy he is in his own little world sort of like me.  I'll watch his Kickstarter burn.  I like watching fires. 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 05:54:45 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: Vampire and Zombie Playing (KS)
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2013, 09:49:59 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think his "thousands of potential backers" were scared off of his project by him, no help required.

PS: why is your firefighter carrying a bat?
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
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Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
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