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Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)

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Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« on: December 19, 2011, 10:37:05 AM »
 

AceGambit

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So, I've dedicated a significant amount of time to learning the Joyal Stack, and it has proved quite useful, but I'm wondering if I picked the wrong one.  It seems like the unpopular choice in the world of magic. Si Stebbins and Tamariz seem like the much more prominent selections.  Should I learn another stack?  Is that a bad idea?  Are there advantages/disadvantages to any of the stacks?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 10:37:24 AM by AceGambit »
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2011, 01:46:53 PM »
 

loldudex2

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I don't use it that often, but I have a deck of bikes that always stays in Si Stebbins stack. I haven't used it for a while, but it's super easy to learn. I usually let the spectator cut the deck a bunch, and "predict" the next card.
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2011, 01:51:50 PM »
 

AceGambit

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With the Si Stebbins stack, aren't you concerned that a clever person might look through the deck and pick up on it?  I mean, it's not exactly subtle.
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2011, 02:30:39 PM »
 

loldudex2

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With the Si Stebbins stack, aren't you concerned that a clever person might look through the deck and pick up on it?  I mean, it's not exactly subtle.

If you do a full deck prediction then yes, but if they ask to see the deck, I spread the cards between my hands and make them slightly clump so you can't tell it's a
"red-black-red-black" Pattern.
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2011, 03:37:31 PM »
 

Joshua Robinson

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is the si-stebbins stack just red black red black? with a random order? ive never learnt stacks, so which one would be a good stack to learn?
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 04:08:33 PM »
 

loldudex2

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is the si-stebbins stack just red black red black? with a random order? ive never learnt stacks, so which one would be a good stack to learn?



No it's not random order, but it's really likely that someone will realize that the cards are in Club, Heart, Spade, Diamond order.
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2011, 06:11:25 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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is the si-stebbins stack just red black red black? with a random order? ive never learnt stacks, so which one would be a good stack to learn?



No it's not random order, but it's really likely that someone will realize that the cards are in Club, Heart, Spade, Diamond order.


There's nothing stopping a person from altering a stack to suit their needs.  I use a customized order on my Invisible Deck instead of the out-of-the-box one; why not a stack, as long as your choices made logical sense and didn't complicate things too much?

Try a Gambler's Deck.  It's stripped, marked and stacked.  You don't need to memorize the whole stack if you don't want to - the marks on the top card will tell you the bottom card.  I use this to great effect in some tricks - people don't claim your deck is marked because you never saw the back of their card!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 06:14:15 PM by Good@Sabacc »
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 07:51:59 PM »
 

Lushbob

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Try a Gambler's Deck.  It's stripped, marked and stacked.  You don't need to memorize the whole stack if you don't want to - the marks on the top card will tell you the bottom card.  I use this to great effect in some tricks - people don't claim your deck is marked because you never saw the back of their card!

Now there's a great idea. Having the top card show what the bottom card is! Although of course, it would make it impossible to shuffle the deck. But I'd settle with a few false cuts and the like.
When you say 'a Gambler's Deck', are you talking about Richard Turner's Gambler's Deck (the only deck I know by that name), or just a general deck used by gamblers? If it is Richard Turner's one, I didn't know it had marked backs! I'll have to check that out. Otherwise, it'd be great to get a link to some information on this deck/where to buy it.
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 08:18:39 PM »
 

AceGambit

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I'm not arguing against a calculated stack, I just wanted to hear people's opinions of it, and if anyone actually used more than one different stack successfully.  I've heard that you will confuse yourself if you try to learn more than 1 stack.  The Joyal Stack is a fully memorized deck - any card at any number, and I've got that down, and it works.  Just curious if anyone could persuade me, or dissuade me from learning another.


Additionally, I personally despise marked decks.  Some people love them, not me. Closest I'll get is a subtle one-way back.  I don't perform tricks that will not allow me to end clean.  I LOVE my svengali decks, but I hardly ever take them out with me, and when I do, I always have a duplicate normal deck with me, and deep loose pockets for an easy swap.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 08:22:24 PM by AceGambit »
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Re: Should I learn more than one stack? Which one(s)
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2011, 12:48:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Try a Gambler's Deck.  It's stripped, marked and stacked.  You don't need to memorize the whole stack if you don't want to - the marks on the top card will tell you the bottom card.  I use this to great effect in some tricks - people don't claim your deck is marked because you never saw the back of their card!

Now there's a great idea. Having the top card show what the bottom card is! Although of course, it would make it impossible to shuffle the deck. But I'd settle with a few false cuts and the like.
When you say 'a Gambler's Deck', are you talking about Richard Turner's Gambler's Deck (the only deck I know by that name), or just a general deck used by gamblers? If it is Richard Turner's one, I didn't know it had marked backs! I'll have to check that out. Otherwise, it'd be great to get a link to some information on this deck/where to buy it.

Actually, this is one created by Boris Wild.  It's not easy to find and is only going to get harder since USPC won't alter Rider backs anymore - no more USPC-made Bicycle marked decks!  He does make them in a more generic back but they don't look anywhere as nice.  I picked mine up on Ebay for a little under $30 a piece, including an instruction manual with recommended tricks.  As far as I know, the Bicycle version only comes in red Rider back.

In fact, if you have any interest in using marked decks in your magic and you want them with the Rider back, you should snap them up, FAST, 'cause when they're gone, they aren't coming back.  My personal favorite is the Ultimate Marked Deck - you can probably get them at a better price than me since they're from a French company.  Soon, though, marked Mandolin backs will become more widespread - the similarities between decks are close enough that some magicians use their Rider back gaffs in a Mandolin deck without getting busted.  Think about it - you're showing a card trick to someone in a bar or on a dimly-lit street; anyone without the eyes and perception of an eagle will barely be able to see the back, never mind notice one similar-looking card is actually different.

And false shuffles are more convincing, IMO.  ;)

Another fun deck to look at (though not quite as practical) are any of the DeLand decks offered by S.S. Adams.  That was a SERIOUSLY stacked and marked stripper deck - reading the top card's back allowed you to locate any card in the deck without having to memorize the stack!  But the back is insanely complicated-looking.

I'm not arguing against a calculated stack, I just wanted to hear people's opinions of it, and if anyone actually used more than one different stack successfully.  I've heard that you will confuse yourself if you try to learn more than 1 stack.  The Joyal Stack is a fully memorized deck - any card at any number, and I've got that down, and it works.  Just curious if anyone could persuade me, or dissuade me from learning another.


Additionally, I personally despise marked decks.  Some people love them, not me. Closest I'll get is a subtle one-way back.  I don't perform tricks that will not allow me to end clean.  I LOVE my svengali decks, but I hardly ever take them out with me, and when I do, I always have a duplicate normal deck with me, and deep loose pockets for an easy swap.

While I'm far from an authority, as I see it, if you know a stack and you're comfortable with it, stick to it.  The only possible advantage I could think of to some other stack would be the Mnemonica stack, since some decks either come in that stack out of the box or can be brought to a stacked state with a simple faro or two.  It lets you open a sealed deck, possibly even shuffle it up a bit, and have your secret weapon ready to roll.

I know what you're saying about marked cards - some magicians despise them, some love them.  If you get a VERY good marked deck, though, you can use it without difficulty and your spectator won't realize it's a marked deck, even with a decent amount of time searching.  Even if the spectator's familiar with marked decks, the Ultimate Marked deck is practically impossible to detect - pros actually get fooled by it, and even when told it's marked it takes them a while to spot the markings.  Best part is that the Ultimate Marked doesn't use some sort of code system with colored-in dots or something like that - it's very sophisticated in how its marks blends into the Rider back design, but at the same time can be read about as fast as if you were looking at the front of the card.

I'm personally fond of my collection of marked decks.  I have the Ultimate, the Gambler's Deck and a few variations of the Phoenix deck from card-shark.de.  I used one to destroy a co-worker who was intentionally trying to screw with my trick by saying "that's not my card" when it really was.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 12:51:46 AM by Good@Sabacc »
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