Question about Bee cards' tradional cut or moderm cut.

[aaa26999]

Hi everyone, I have a question if someone could help me out?I watched a video about faro shuffle,which mentioned 99% of the bee cards are traditional cut. But  I was told by T11 recently that all the bee cards they carry are modern cut. So I contacted the USPCC, with a reply saying that every typical deck bee playing cards the made is traditional cut. Do I'm confused , does it means if I want a traditional cut deck of bee, just buy it the the official website of uspcc rather than in T11?

[EndersGame]

I already responded to your question on Reddit, but I'll post my answer here as well.  Firstly, it's worth mentioning that Bee Cards and Bee stock isn't the same thing.

• Bee Cards is one of USPCC's brand, and part of their casino division of playing cards. They no longer allow custom decks within their Bee brand (source).
• Bee Stock (now normally referred to as Premium Stock) is USPCC's casino grade stock that customers can use for custom playing cards if desired. The other main stock option is Bicycle Stock (now normally referred to as Retail Stock). Both stocks also have a further option to be crushed. For an overview of USPCC's main types of stock, see the section about Stocks in the article Factors that affect the handling of a Bicycle deck.

Casino decks are typically traditionally cut, and since USPCC has decided to not allow custom decks within the Bee brand, so it is very possible that as a result all USPCC's Bee branded decks are traditionally cut by default.

However, that would especially apply just to their specific Bee brand, given the casino focus of this brand. Most of their (non-Bee brand) standard and custom decks are modern cut by default, unless requested otherwise (at extra cost).

So it seems to me that the USPCC response you got is just about the Bee brand. You'll have to ask them if this is also true of all decks using Bee (Premium) stock, which is something different. It's certainly not true of the vast majority of decks using Retail stock.

[aaa26999]

Many thanks, Enders. I replied you on Reddit. Here are the pictures of the deck.
From what USPCC responsed, does this deck should be traditional cut? But T11 says all the bee cards(which in the pictures) they carry are modern cut.

[EndersGame]

I have a brand new deck that is exactly like this one.  Same date, same bar code. 

I just opened it up right now to check for you. It is definitely traditionally cut.

Here's the product page for this exact deck at Theory11: https://store.theory11.com/products/bee

One of the reviews also says the following: "They handle very nicely, good weight and grip. Traditional cut."

So yes, this particular deck is definitely traditionally cut.

I think that either Theory11 misunderstood your question, or you misunderstood their answer, or they gave you wrong information.  This is the correct information:
●  Decks with the Bee branded decks are traditionally cut.
●  Decks with the Bee (Casino/Premium) stock are not necessarily traditionally cut, because most USPCC printed decks have a modern cut rather than traditional cut. 

Note that most Theory11 decks are not Bee branded.  The deck you pictured is the only Bee branded deck that they sell.  All their other decks are not Bee branded. However many of their decks use Bee (Casino/Premium) stock, and it may be that the Theory11 representative that responded to you thought you were referring to that.

[aaa26999]

Thanks! That's really helpful. You can't imagine how many days I'd been searching for on google for the information, while my decks are in shipping. I never doubted the reply the T11 gave me, because I  asked the cutting questioning just in the order confirming email, with the order number and deck's picture lay there...

[aaa26999]

Quotes of T11 gave me:

"Thanks for reaching out! The Bee cards we carry are not traditionally cut.";


">>> We do not have traditionally cut Bee cards for sale. So sorry!
>>>
>>> Have a great week!"

[EndersGame]

Looks like the person who responded on behalf of Theory11 was simply misinformed, and gave you incorrect info. 

So yes, the deck in question is traditionally cut. Glad to help settle that for you!

[aaa26999]

Ah, I remind something again. The many forums I browsed often had comments like "since they moved to the new factory, the bee cards are modern cut now. Only the bee cards ordered by casino are traditional cut, not the "casino quality" bee which is sold to the public, because the casinos always requested for traditional cut", or something like that.
And Richard Turner did have sold some custom bee cards No.92 which "insisted traditional cut". It has been out of stock for many years, now I can understand that since you informed the new  policies of USPCC. But the Turner's Bee deck did exit for some years. Does that mean that for some years, the bee brand brand cards were modern cut? Otherwise Richard has no reason to ask uspcc to manufacture some traditional cut bees(not the golden seal rider back bicycle made of bee stock which is still available for now).
Here is the information of the requested traditional cut bees.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/red-decks-gold-standard-bee-playing-1756512907
Penguin-magic also once offered these decks for some time.insisted

[Don Boyer]

Just to help clear things up a bit - yes, these days, ALL product output by USPC is traditionally cut.

There's a simple and almost humorous reason as to why.

For some reason, making cards traditionally cut involved taking the paper as it comes out of the printer and flipping it before it's put into the machines that cut sheets into strips and punches cards out of those strips.  For the sake of efficiency, at some point in the 1980s, USPC stopped making traditionally cut decks, eliminating this flipping-over step - you had to specially request it, pay extra for it, and they were generally not too thrilled about doing it, from what I've heard.

When they opened the new plant in 2009, they had new machines to work with - and around the same time, some adjustments were made to the thickness of the paper as well as the percentage of post-consumer recycled content.  As they started working with these new machines and the new stock, they started running into jamming problems with the new cutting hardware.  Someone on the factory floor discovered that if they went back to the old way of flipping the sheets over, they jammed less often!  So now, lo and behold, all USPC decks are traditionally cut!

I learned about this during one of the 52+J conventions - we had a convention in Erlanger, Kentucky a few years back, which included a tour of the factory floor as well as a Q&A session and some free swag.  The most notable item they gave us was the Norwood uncut - an uncut sheet that was never intended to be cut into a deck in the first place.  On the faces, it has USPC standard faces with one joker each from Bicycle, Bee, Aviator and Hoyle, and a Bicycle Ace of Spades.  On the back, there's a sheet-sized collage of photos taken in the Norwood section of Cincinnati - various signs, buildings, etc.  It's one of my wife's favorite uncut sheets out of my collection.

[EndersGame]

Just to help clear things up a bit - yes, these days, ALL product output by USPC is traditionally cut.

Are you sure?  I've got quite a few recent decks printed by USPC that has a modern cut. 

In fact, more of them seem to have a modern cut than a traditional cut.

[Don Boyer]

Just to help clear things up a bit - yes, these days, ALL product output by USPC is traditionally cut.

Are you sure?  I've got quite a few recent decks printed by USPC that has a modern cut. 

In fact, more of them seem to have a modern cut than a traditional cut.

Well, when I last spoke with my USPC contacts about this, it was at the 2019 convention - and I saw a few of them at Magifest 2020, but we didn't talk much shop at that one.  It's within the realm of the possible that they figured out a way to get the stock to feed into the cutter without having to flip the paper, thus making the decks modern cut.

Though if you ask me, wouldn't a simple solution to this be to simply print your faces on what would traditionally be the back of the paper, then print your backs on what would traditionally be the front?  No flipping necessary and your cards come out traditionally cut, since that cut is determined by whether the face is up or down when the die comes down to cut the card out of the paper.  Maybe that's just crazy talk...  I'm no printer, after all...