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Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]

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TheDespotes

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They're saying that they are going to release a new deck friday!
http://instagram.com/p/URezzIq9an/
But there isn't much information about it either!  >:(
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 11:59:01 PM by Don Boyer »
 

Re: New deck D&D
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 04:57:18 AM »
 

Michael

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They're saying that they are going to release a new deck friday!
http://instagram.com/p/URezzIq9an/
But there isn't much information about it either!  >:(

Possibly related to this?!? Maybe, maybe not! :P

http://instagram.com/p/UMcBvZjIj9/
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 04:58:19 AM by mchoi22 »
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."
 

Re: New deck D&D
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 05:58:42 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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They're saying that they are going to release a new deck friday!
http://instagram.com/p/URezzIq9an/
But there isn't much information about it either!  >:(

Possibly related to this?!? Maybe, maybe not! :P

http://instagram.com/p/UMcBvZjIj9/

I sure as hell HOPE not...  :))  But it's Hello Kitty - that would be high on the kawaii factor...

It occurs to me - if this deck comes out tomorrow, it'll be the year's first release from any of the companies we track!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 06:26:40 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: New deck D&D
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 09:15:41 AM »
 

ruicorreia

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They're saying that they are going to release a new deck friday!
http://instagram.com/p/URezzIq9an/
But there isn't much information about it either!  >:(

Possibly related to this?!? Maybe, maybe not! :P

http://instagram.com/p/UMcBvZjIj9/

I can't imagine that the first collaboration between D&D and USPCC would be in a Hello Kitty deck.
My guess is that USPCC wanted a special and appealling deck to be launched through Club 808.
Let's wait and see.
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Re: New deck D&D
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 09:48:37 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I can't imagine that the first collaboration between D&D and USPCC would be in a Hello Kitty deck.
My guess is that USPCC wanted a special and appealling deck to be launched through Club 808.
Let's wait and see.

As interesting as that sounds, there's no "coming soon" for a deck on Club 808 for anything other than the Bicycle Griffin.  This is probably something more like what Theory11's been doing with some of their recent decks: Archangels, Steam Punk, Guardians.  It'll be on the D&D site and sold by USPC to their retailers and through Wingra Direct.
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 02:58:05 PM »
 

john

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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 04:20:22 PM »
 

shutupdangit

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So they're reprinting Steamboats? I wonder how they'll feel compared to the old ones.
 

Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 04:48:32 PM »
 

Fanofyankees13

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I'm completely uninterested. Wasn't a fan of their Tahoe reprints and I'm not really a fan of reprinting old decks in the first place.
“You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.”

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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 04:51:45 PM »
 

Angel_magic

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Wow, I don't know if re-releasing steamboats is a great idea..

Steamboats became so popular SOLELY  because they handle amazingly, not for their design. Lets face it, the design is pretty mediocre, especially compared to the type of intricacy that today's technology is capable of.

It would seem to me, if you're going to reprint a deck (unless you can recreate how it handled too, which I doubt they can) you'd pick one that has a unique design, not one that was only popular for its handling.
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 04:53:15 PM »
 

Michael

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So they're reprinting Steamboats? I wonder how they'll feel compared to the old ones.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find my steamboats (I only have one unopened deck). How did they feel? In comparison to other decks?

EDIT: posted right after the member above me. So amazing? How so compared to other decks?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 04:55:25 PM by mchoi22 »
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 05:01:20 PM »
 

Angel_magic

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Well I haven't handled any in a while, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they were smooth finish, with very stiff stock considering how thin they were. I only recall their awesome stiffness and that I loved playing with them. If I can find any of my decks I'll edit this with more details. But the jist of it is stiff and thin, a great combination.
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 05:05:23 PM »
 

Michael

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Well I haven't handled any in a while, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they were smooth finish, with very stiff stock considering how thin they were. I only recall their awesome stiffness and that I loved playing with them. If I can find any of my decks I'll edit this with more details. But the jist of it is stiff and thin, a great combination.

Hey thanks! Thin and stiff already has gotten my attention! Haha as long as the design isn't atrocious that's basically all I need/want! Let's hope these reprints will be as promising
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."
 

Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 05:50:36 PM »
 

Angel_magic

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Hey thanks! Thin and stiff already has gotten my attention! Haha as long as the design isn't atrocious that's basically all I need/want! Let's hope these reprints will be as promising

Well, that was my point. I highly doubt they can or will recreate the old handling. In fact, I'd guess they will most likely be printed using the techniques they currently use for their decks (i.e. they will probably feel like Fultons). So although the design isn't BAD per se, it's definitely not anything special, so there really isn't a need for them to be reprinted.
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 05:57:42 PM »
 

Michael

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Hey thanks! Thin and stiff already has gotten my attention! Haha as long as the design isn't atrocious that's basically all I need/want! Let's hope these reprints will be as promising

Well, that was my point. I highly doubt they can or will recreate the old handling. In fact, I'd guess they will most likely be printed using the techniques they currently use for their decks (i.e. they will probably feel like Fultons). So although the design isn't BAD per se, it's definitely not anything special, so there really isn't a need for them to be reprinted.

Unfortunately I don't really like the handling of my Fultons... I guess it's a pass for now unless we hear differently.
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."
 

Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 07:25:04 PM »
 

Joker and the Thief

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They are not done yet, R. Paul Wilson posted this on twitter.

It had this caption: "The @bucktwins are about to re-release my two favourite decks of all time. I've already ordered a lifetime supply."
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 07:31:22 PM »
 

xela

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The reason Steamboats were awesome: Handling

What these reprints won't have: Handling

Sorry but no thanks. "Working with USPCC" is what D&D say to make people think there is something special about these cards. In reality, all that means is they collaborated with USPCC to get rights to print the design.

USPCC offers Bicycle stock, Bee stock and Magic/Air-Cushion finish as well as two other variants: dimpled surface and smooth surface.

Nothing. Else.

The various stocks, papers and finishes used back in the Cincinnati are long, long, long gone.

Reading some of the things people have said about this deck is alarming. "I could never get the originals which people loved, so I will get these!" Why? The back design is terrible for magic and the only amazing aspect of them is completely gone. On top of that, you have the D&D logo on the cards.
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 08:08:05 PM »
 

Lara Krystle "Lane"

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The2nd instagram link with the Pink hello kitty cards made me LOL so hard!
 

Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 09:31:43 PM »
 

sr15

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sounds like D&D trying to make a quick buck again (no pun intended)
 

Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 10:14:39 PM »
 

KPopFever605

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Another deck I'm not getting. Not a fan of reprints.

What is with these large-scale companies and simply recoloring or just reprint a deck with an updated feel?
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 10:17:39 PM »
 

Fanofyankees13

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Another deck I'm not getting. Not a fan of reprints.

What is with these large-scale companies and simply recoloring or just reprint a deck with an updated feel?

Money, money, money. That is, until people stop buying them...
“You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.”

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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 10:38:15 PM »
 

sr15

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Another deck I'm not getting. Not a fan of reprints.

What is with these large-scale companies and simply recoloring or just reprint a deck with an updated feel?

minimal design work, large fanbase that have a good chance at buying whatever you put out just because, easy cash in if you don't do it too frequently. I don't think D&D have been doing that many reprints but I don't really know, but either way it seems like they've been doing a lot of "cash-ins" lately (S&M v7, Mystery Deck and now this)
 

Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 01:15:44 AM »
 

Angel_magic

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Yeah, D&D's way of approaching the industry lately has really saddened me. Like Alex and I said earlier, there's no appeal in reprinting a deck that was only good for it's handling.
At this point it's not even subtle anymore that they're just in this for the money. And unfortunately, regardless of how blatant that fact is, they're still getting business.

As bad as it may sound, I honestly hope this venture fails miserably and no one buys it. Maybe then Dan and Dave will realize that they actually have to start putting out quality merchandise again to get people's business.
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2013, 09:08:58 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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OK, I'll grant you that it's a "lazy reprint" and everything.  At least from what people think right now.  Before the deck's even been released.

Who knows?  Imagine Steamboats with Bee Casino stock and Magic Finish - what would that be like, compared to the original?  Perhaps the artwork is classic reproductions of an earlier version of the deck.

I'm not a big fan of a lot of what D&D have done recently with playing cards, and that's no secret.  (Ace Fulton's Strip Joint, anyone?  It comes in peach, dark brown and caramel...)  But this is something they're doing in concert with USPC, much like the T11 decks that USPC carries.  Think of it - while Steam Punk didn't exactly wow anyone, Guardians and Archangels are some pretty good decks.  This could end up being a great redesign of a classic, with the benefit of updated finish.

My point is that we're all quick to judge a product that we've only seen inside its tuck box.

Anyone got a release time on this yet?
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2013, 10:53:55 AM »
 

Angel_magic

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OK, I'll grant you that it's a "lazy reprint" and everything.  At least from what people think right now.  Before the deck's even been released.

Who knows?  Imagine Steamboats with Bee Casino stock and Magic Finish - what would that be like, compared to the original?  Perhaps the artwork is classic reproductions of an earlier version of the deck.

I'm not a big fan of a lot of what D&D have done recently with playing cards, and that's no secret.  (Ace Fulton's Strip Joint, anyone?  It comes in peach, dark brown and caramel...)  But this is something they're doing in concert with USPC, much like the T11 decks that USPC carries.  Think of it - while Steam Punk didn't exactly wow anyone, Guardians and Archangels are some pretty good decks.  This could end up being a great redesign of a classic, with the benefit of updated finish.

My point is that we're all quick to judge a product that we've only seen inside its tuck box.

Anyone got a release time on this yet?

I have to disagree for a couple reasons. Although I agree that it's a bit early to judge because it's POSSIBLE that they can surprise us and recreate it with some new, "meant to be like the original" stock, I very highly doubt it.

1) Steamboats with bee Casino and Magic finish... See, that's just it, you can print any deck with that stock and finish. So with the current technology and creative standards, why would you do it on a deck with a sub-par, borderless back design that's useless for magic and has no uniqueness in any other aspect of the deck/design.

2) The Steamboats had very nice stock, stiff and thin. Like alex said, USPCC just does not have those papers available anymore. So since the only legitimate appeal to the deck was it's handling due to that great stock, reprinting it WITHOUT that is useless.

Warning, stupidly impromptu analogy: I think it could be compared to pea soup. Pea soup basically looks like vomit...Yuck! So why do people eat it? Because they like peas maybe.. or maybe just because the peas make it taste unique and good. In either case, the peas are the focal point of their interests. D&D are basically remaking making this, quite gross looking pea soup (steamboats), without the peas (their stock), that just tastes like regular ol' chicken noodle.

Lawl, I can't believe I just related playing cards to soup. I'm impressed. Can I get a badge for that? I think yes.

Again, this is all speculation, but based on D&D's history, even if they do make changes to this deck they will be minute and these points will still stand.
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2013, 11:20:00 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I have to disagree for a couple reasons. Although I agree that it's a bit early to judge because it's POSSIBLE that they can surprise us and recreate it with some new, "meant to be like the original" stock, I very highly doubt it.

1) Steamboats with bee Casino and Magic finish... See, that's just it, you can print any deck with that stock and finish. So with the current technology and creative standards, why would you do it on a deck with a sub-par, borderless back design that's useless for magic and has no uniqueness in any other aspect of the deck/design.

2) The Steamboats had very nice stock, stiff and thin. Like alex said, USPCC just does not have those papers available anymore. So since the only legitimate appeal to the deck was it's handling due to that great stock, reprinting it WITHOUT that is useless.

Warning, stupidly impromptu analogy: I think it could be compared to pea soup. Pea soup basically looks like vomit...Yuck! So why do people eat it? Because they like peas maybe.. or maybe just because the peas make it taste unique and good. In either case, the peas are the focal point of their interests. D&D are basically remaking making this, quite gross looking pea soup (steamboats), without the peas (their stock), that just tastes like regular ol' chicken noodle.

Lawl, I can't believe I just related playing cards to soup. I'm impressed. Can I get a badge for that? I think yes.

Again, this is all speculation, but based on D&D's history, even if they do make changes to this deck they will be minute and these points will still stand.

Yes, it is true that many, many decks can be made with this stock.  But I did recently find out that there are variants in the stock - "Bee Casino" isn't a completely uniform, 100% identical stock from deck to deck, sheet to sheet, roll to roll, and neither is "Bicycle" stock.  They stopped using grams per square meter (gsm) to measure the stock's properties.  Now, they're actually graded by thickness, and there's a fairly wide range of thicknesses for either stock.  Shockingly enough, the ranges overlap - it's possible to have a Bicycle stock deck that's thicker than one made with Bee Casino!

It's possible that they have a paper that's "Bee Casino" but on the slim side.  Or for all we know, they're field-testing a new stock, since no one outside D&D's loop knows more about this deck than "it's called Steamboats," "there's a red one and a blue one," and "it comes out later today."  It's hard to apply the old rules for how D&D did decks before because they've never had such a collaboration with USPC before.  It's uncharted territory until the deck is in customers' hands.
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Re: Steamboats: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 02:15:26 PM »
 

Angel_magic

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Yeah I agree, there's no use in debating over speculation. Guess we'll just have to wait until the decks are in our hands, and continue this then. I'm not done with you yet, Don ;)
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Re: Steamboats: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 02:45:27 PM »
 

xela

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Why I don't believe D&D are actually testing a new ANYTHING:

1. USPCC has yet to work with a company to get new paper. The paper they use is the paper that the mills provide. You can't just walk into USPCC and "develop" a new stock. They have what they have, and anything available to D&D is available to every person working with them. If D&D found a ground breaking new stock, you would see more people using it already. Just look at the Magic finish, which was printed on USPCC decks before a single Ellusionist deck with it hit shelves, and you already had custom decks utilizing that finish when it was just announced.

2. If USPCC refused to work with David Blaine on developing new tech and materials for cards (which is why the Legends deck is outsourcing to other companies), why would they give a minute of their time to D&D, who don't have anywhere near the resources that DB has? USPCC chucked E and T11 out the window so they could opt out of working with any company, yet they team up with D&D?

3. 100% of the time in the past, when a company or person stated they're "teaming up with USPCC" it has been on the design-end. The design folks have nothing to do with the production department, or R&D. At least that's what my conversations with their design department has led me to believe, since some of them are more clueless about stocks/finishes than us folks on the forums.
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Re: Steamboats: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 03:40:08 PM »
 

Frost

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you guys might want to check this out they posted this on there instagram page a hour ago, and on there Facebook page ? I think its called the Ultimate Deck by Stranger & Stranger .
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 03:43:56 PM by Frost »
 

Re: Steamboats: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 03:47:19 PM »
 

shz

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you guys might want to check this out they posted this on there instagram page a hour ago, and on there Facebook page ? I think its called the Ultimate Deck by Stranger & Stranger .

There was a post on a thread quite a while ago about this deck.
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Re: Steamboats: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 05:10:56 PM »
 

agera94

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Found this quote over on UC; not too sure what to think of it:

"Being one of our favorite decks we convinced the USPCC to allow us to reprint these to their original specification with a smooth finish on ultra thin paper. We think the outcome is better than the original."

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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2013, 07:13:05 PM »
 

sr15

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As bad as it may sound, I honestly hope this venture fails miserably and no one buys it. Maybe then Dan and Dave will realize that they actually have to start putting out quality merchandise again to get people's business.

agreed. They have put out quality decks and designs in the past so there's nothing to suggest that they can't do it in the future, other than the notion that it seems they just don't really care anymore. I skipped on v7s, I skipped on the mystery decks, and I will almost certainly skip on this with the Legends deck coming out this month. I have complained in the past about T11 and E having somewhat uninspired deck releases, but D&D take the cake over the past few months, no question.

Why I don't believe D&D are actually testing a new ANYTHING:

1. USPCC has yet to work with a company to get new paper. The paper they use is the paper that the mills provide. You can't just walk into USPCC and "develop" a new stock. They have what they have, and anything available to D&D is available to every person working with them. If D&D found a ground breaking new stock, you would see more people using it already. Just look at the Magic finish, which was printed on USPCC decks before a single Ellusionist deck with it hit shelves, and you already had custom decks utilizing that finish when it was just announced.

2. If USPCC refused to work with David Blaine on developing new tech and materials for cards (which is why the Legends deck is outsourcing to other companies), why would they give a minute of their time to D&D, who don't have anywhere near the resources that DB has? USPCC chucked E and T11 out the window so they could opt out of working with any company, yet they team up with D&D?

3. 100% of the time in the past, when a company or person stated they're "teaming up with USPCC" it has been on the design-end. The design folks have nothing to do with the production department, or R&D. At least that's what my conversations with their design department has led me to believe, since some of them are more clueless about stocks/finishes than us folks on the forums.

agreed on all points

Found this quote over on UC; not too sure what to think of it:

"Being one of our favorite decks we convinced the USPCC to allow us to reprint these to their original specification with a smooth finish on ultra thin paper. We think the outcome is better than the original."

yeahhhh... not buying that one bit. Read what alex said. There is no special stock or finish available to D&D that isn't available to everyone else. It will be a standard deck of playing cards if it goes through USPCC. Not to say that USPCC doesn't put out high quality decks, but this absolutely won't be anything groundbreaking like D&D would like to suggest.
 

Re: Steamboats: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2013, 07:15:18 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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Found this quote over on UC; not too sure what to think of it:

"Being one of our favorite decks we convinced the USPCC to allow us to reprint these to their original specification with a smooth finish on ultra thin paper. We think the outcome is better than the original."

Well *that* is far more interesting. Barely cared about these before reading that part.
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Re: Steamboats: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2013, 09:05:55 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Why I don't believe D&D are actually testing a new ANYTHING:

1. USPCC has yet to work with a company to get new paper. The paper they use is the paper that the mills provide. You can't just walk into USPCC and "develop" a new stock. They have what they have, and anything available to D&D is available to every person working with them. If D&D found a ground breaking new stock, you would see more people using it already. Just look at the Magic finish, which was printed on USPCC decks before a single Ellusionist deck with it hit shelves, and you already had custom decks utilizing that finish when it was just announced.

2. If USPCC refused to work with David Blaine on developing new tech and materials for cards (which is why the Legends deck is outsourcing to other companies), why would they give a minute of their time to D&D, who don't have anywhere near the resources that DB has? USPCC chucked E and T11 out the window so they could opt out of working with any company, yet they team up with D&D?

3. 100% of the time in the past, when a company or person stated they're "teaming up with USPCC" it has been on the design-end. The design folks have nothing to do with the production department, or R&D. At least that's what my conversations with their design department has led me to believe, since some of them are more clueless about stocks/finishes than us folks on the forums.

I don't think you understood what I meant.  The actual paper is the same.  But it's "sandwiched" into stock at USPC, and if needed, embossed.  The process for creating that sandwich is completely under USPC's control.  Different pressures and different amounts of glue can alter the cardstock created.  I've heard the same thing from two different sources, both involved in making playing cards.

But again, we have no way of knowing what the deal with that deck is until it's in people's hands.
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Re: Steamboats: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2013, 09:28:36 PM »
 

Michael

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For those that haven't already seen, two releases went live on the D&D site:

Steamboat reprints: http://shop.dananddave.com/steamboat.html

And Bicycle Fan Backs: http://shop.dananddave.com/bicycle-new-fan-back.html
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."
 

Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2013, 10:06:50 PM »
 

Card Player

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Reading some of the things people have said about this deck is alarming. "I could never get the originals which people loved, so I will get these!" Why? The back design is terrible for magic and the only amazing aspect of them is completely gone. On top of that, you have the D&D logo on the cards.

While I agree with your assessment of Steamboats and don't understand the business logic in having Steamboats particularly reprinted by D&D, I don't have a problem with D&D's overall wanting to add the deck to their repertoire of customer choices. I think we all need to look at the big picture from D&D's standpoint and not as a single release on its own merit.

As for the New Fan Backs, I bought a brick of these bad boys for $4.95 a deck -15% discount. One of my favorite back designs and I have always loved that Old School Bicycle Box with the FAT Bicycle Font on the sides. Very happy to buy these.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 06:17:18 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2013, 11:57:58 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Reading some of the things people have said about this deck is alarming. "I could never get the originals which people loved, so I will get these!" Why? The back design is terrible for magic and the only amazing aspect of them is completely gone. On top of that, you have the D&D logo on the cards.

While I agree with on your assessment of Steamboats and don't understand the business logic in having Steamboats particularly reprinted by D&D, I don't have a problem with D&D's overall wanting to add the deck to their repertoire of customer choices. I think we all need to look at the big picture from D&D's standpoint and not as a single release on its own merit.

As for the New Fan Backs, I bought a brick of these bad boys for $4.95 a deck -15% discount. One of my favorite back designs and I have always loved that Old School Bicycle Box with the FAT Bicycle Font on the sides. Very happy to buy these.

If we're to believe the D&D ad copy, this deck does have a specially-prepared stock.  I've discovered that quantity of graphite glue and pressure used to create the paper can actually create subtle differences, just like the humidity levels they get stored at.  Making them smooth will also give them a stiffer feel.

The NFBs took me by surprise.  I didn't even realize they were there until I read it here.  Ended up placing a separate order for them and sent Syd a request to combine them if possible.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2013, 08:57:04 PM »
 

Ben K

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Stop me if its been said already but...
I honestly like D&D. They are pushing on all grounds; cards, books, DVDs, heck they are even making an app for streaming videos. Maybe the USPCC is saying no to other companies just to shut that door and stop everyone from nagging. If all the companies where able to specify stock, finish and all the details I think that USPCC would come to a grinding halt due to trying to coordinate. Has anyone here ever gone into a print shop before? I don't mean kinkos either. They are chaos! You have to get to know the clerks too before they actually care. Buy the dude a drink and suddenly your stuff prints first.

I think in 10 years from now those who bought the bike vintage reprints will be happy they did. Embrace what you love before its gone because everything in life is limited edition. Including us.
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Re: D&D collaboration with USPC [new deck]
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2013, 10:09:09 PM »
 

sr15

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If we're to believe the D&D ad copy, this deck does have a specially-prepared stock.

and if you believe that, D&D have a bridge themed deck to sell you
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2013, 12:39:55 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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If we're to believe the D&D ad copy, this deck does have a specially-prepared stock.

and if you believe that, D&D have a bridge themed deck to sell you

FUNNY!  I like that!

It's why I said, "If we're to believe the D&D ad copy," as opposed to "Them Bucks are speaking the honest truth, yessirree..."  They've always made claims with the S&M decks of proprietary stock and finish, and they're about as true as Linoid, Cambric and Air Cushion actually having a noteworthy difference from each other.  But as stated, smooth decks tend to be stiffer than embossed ones.  Shuffle the same CARC deck in the two "finishes" and you'll see the difference.  It can give a thin stock the "snappy" feeling they mentioned.

I'll know soon enough - I ordered some of both
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2013, 01:37:33 AM »
 

hecrob

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This could mean that maybe the steamboats and the new fan backs will be available shortly in my country in any store that sells Bicycle cards.
That happened with the Guardians, first they were only available through theory 11, now i can buy them anywhere.

So hopefully they will be here in maybe 6 months. I can wait :)

BTW Does anybody know how much time took for the Guardians to be availabel at stores like Target, Walmart, HEB, etc...??



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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2013, 02:06:15 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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This could mean that maybe the steamboats and the new fan backs will be available shortly in my country in any store that sells Bicycle cards.
That happened with the Guardians, first they were only available through theory 11, now i can buy them anywhere.

So hopefully they will be here in maybe 6 months. I can wait :)

BTW Does anybody know how much time took for the Guardians to be availabel at stores like Target, Walmart, HEB, etc...??

I think it was either early 2012 or sometime in 2011, around the same time that Guardians v.2 came out with the matte-finish box.  Theory11 got into a partnership with USPC where T11 redesigned the website and they started doing deck collaborations.  The Guardians was their first collaboration.  The others to date are the Steam Punk deck (it came in three colors, of which USPC only carried two), Robocycle and the Archangels.  Robocycle was just an ugly deck, period.  Steam Punks were kind of a flop - the design was so-so to begin with and the USPC brass version used 100% standard faces except for the AoS and jokers.  But I'd call the others a success.

It's hard to gauge what will happen regarding USPC selling a USPC-branded version of these decks.  It's very possible that this "collaboration" is really just hype-speak for "we ordered these from them" and it's not really anything like what T11 is doing with USPC.  I do know they are not currently on sale at USPC's direct-sale website, Wingra Direct; that site usually carries all current USPC stock.  It remains to be seen if this will become a USPC deck as well as a D&D deck.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2013, 03:48:51 PM »
 

Card Player

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Quote
It's why I said, "If we're to believe the D&D ad copy," as opposed to "Them Bucks are speaking the honest truth, yessirree..."  They've always made claims with the S&M decks of proprietary stock and finish, and they're about as true as Linoid, Cambric and Air Cushion actually having a noteworthy difference from each other.

@ Don: As you have mentioned to me once before, "not everybody that purchases playing cards is on these forums" and not everyone is as educated about the industry as most of us here.  D&D and other companies have a tendency of taking a superficial approach in describing their products. Andrei Jikh (theory11) said it best on unitedcardist.com referring to the Artisan Playing Cards, the target market is a 15 year old boy. If D&D is statistically following that philosophy, then its that marketing approach that they believe works best for their core target market.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 05:14:35 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2013, 04:27:44 PM »
 

Michael

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Well my oder of NFB and Steamboats just shipped or at least finished processing so we shall see.
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2013, 05:20:04 PM »
 

Ben K

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I'll agree that ALL the companies speak through a veil. we have plenty of examples from each. But many here are doing it too. I can read between the lines and get the jist of it. I have stated my opinion about D&D but just want to add how I find it ironic that the same people bashing them are ordering BRICKS from them. If the companies being mentioned where that evil than why not boycott them.....or at least lie and don't tell us!

« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 05:20:25 PM by Ben K »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2013, 08:10:13 PM »
 

sr15

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I'll agree that ALL the companies speak through a veil. we have plenty of examples from each. But many here are doing it too. I can read between the lines and get the jist of it. I have stated my opinion about D&D but just want to add how I find it ironic that the same people bashing them are ordering BRICKS from them. If the companies being mentioned where that evil than why not boycott them.....or at least lie and don't tell us!

as one of the more vocal D&D bashers in this thread, I have never once placed an order from their website. soooooooo.....there you go? I'm a consumer and a collector so I'm not going to boycott D&D if they actually put out a good release, but I'm not going to be sold on obvious bullshit. I actually haven't ordered from E, T11 or D&D in a very long time, besides the Treasury deck from E since I kind of guessed it might go the way of their previous "rare" decks.
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2013, 11:27:33 PM »
 

Ben K

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Sorry to all. I get that many here have a knowledgable background on many things related to cards but it can be tough to tell when they may be overstepping and putting there opinion behind it. Many of us here have come to learn. Somethings I hear contradict others and I have a hard finding the truth in this magic. I know I myself still have many threads bookmarked to read.

For the most part I agree with what's being said, but unless its a heartfelt warning or nudge to proceed I see it has no purpose if we are advancing cards and likes. I'm not trying to say everyone is evil and darn you all to heck, no way. I enjoy that everyone here is open in the discussion and has an opinion just remember that others have one too.

I happen to like about 85% of what most mentioned companies offer. If someone got seriously ripped off I can understand. But everything I have experience has been stellar. Out of everyone here, has anyone gotten burned buying a brick and then asked if they could return it or maybe something similar? I would be interested to hear. Could also make a great thread if it's not yet.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2013, 01:49:02 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's why I said, "If we're to believe the D&D ad copy," as opposed to "Them Bucks are speaking the honest truth, yessirree..."  They've always made claims with the S&M decks of proprietary stock and finish, and they're about as true as Linoid, Cambric and Air Cushion actually having a noteworthy difference from each other.

@ Don: As you have mentioned to me once before, "not everybody that purchases playing cards is on these forums" and not everyone is as educated about the industry as most of us here.  D&D and other companies have a tendency of taking a superficial approach in describing their products. Andrei Jikh (theory11) said it best on unitedcardist.com referring to the Artisan Playing Cards, the target market is a 15 year old boy. If D&D is statistically following that philosophy, then its that marketing approach that they believe works best for their core target market.

I'm going to quote the full statements I made leading up to the edited portion you quoted above.

Reading some of the things people have said about this deck is alarming. "I could never get the originals which people loved, so I will get these!" Why? The back design is terrible for magic and the only amazing aspect of them is completely gone. On top of that, you have the D&D logo on the cards.

While I agree with on your assessment of Steamboats and don't understand the business logic in having Steamboats particularly reprinted by D&D, I don't have a problem with D&D's overall wanting to add the deck to their repertoire of customer choices. I think we all need to look at the big picture from D&D's standpoint and not as a single release on its own merit.

As for the New Fan Backs, I bought a brick of these bad boys for $4.95 a deck -15% discount. One of my favorite back designs and I have always loved that Old School Bicycle Box with the FAT Bicycle Font on the sides. Very happy to buy these.

If we're to believe the D&D ad copy, this deck does have a specially-prepared stock.  I've discovered that quantity of graphite glue and pressure used to create the paper can actually create subtle differences, just like the humidity levels they get stored at.  Making them smooth will also give them a stiffer feel.

The NFBs took me by surprise.  I didn't even realize they were there until I read it here.  Ended up placing a separate order for them and sent Syd a request to combine them if possible.

If we're to believe the D&D ad copy, this deck does have a specially-prepared stock.

and if you believe that, D&D have a bridge themed deck to sell you

FUNNY!  I like that!

It's why I said, "If we're to believe the D&D ad copy," as opposed to "Them Bucks are speaking the honest truth, yessirree..."  They've always made claims with the S&M decks of proprietary stock and finish, and they're about as true as Linoid, Cambric and Air Cushion actually having a noteworthy difference from each other.  But as stated, smooth decks tend to be stiffer than embossed ones.  Shuffle the same CARC deck in the two "finishes" and you'll see the difference.  It can give a thin stock the "snappy" feeling they mentioned.

I'll know soon enough - I ordered some of both


My statements stemmed from others saying that there's no likelihood that these new decks are going to perform like the originals because they aren't being made with the same stock or finish.  I stated reasons why they might have at least some of the original deck's properties, other than just design.  My statement about whether or not we believe the ad copy was not a judgment on their marketing practices.  Indeed, it's entirely possible the ad copy is telling the truth.  How probable that is, I couldn't say until I get my hands on my decks.

I have no doubt that a hefty number of their fans are 15-year-old boys.  But that's not the entire market.  It's not even a majority.  Jikh's description regarding the Artisan deck sounds specious, assuming your quote is accurate, just because I've never heard of a company targeting a single gender at a single age in years.  Unless what you're making is truly a niche product - and no, the Artisan deck doesn't qualify as such, since it's playing cards with a minimally custom design - you never target just "15-year-old boys" or 65-year-old women" or similar - you target a broader spectrum, like "males between 15-25 years old".  And that range I just wrote is much more like the real, legitimate range all of the major card design shops are targeting.  Of course, it's also the largest age and gender category on this forum as well, and probably over at UC, too.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2013, 12:10:20 AM »
 

Card Player

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Quote from: Andrei Jikh on http://       unitedcardists.com        Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:12 pm
Quote
At the end of the day, we're an online magic company that makes magic tricks. Our main audience is 16 year old teenage boys. How much simpler does it get? We're not illuminati looking to make a quick profit from your $6.95. Seriously?
@ Don: Yes, I misquoted what was written by Andrei Jikh. I'm sure I don't have to explain this but I'm going to say it anyway. I write on this forum and others because I enjoy doing so. Unfortunately in this format I don't always take the time to do full research. I went with what I thought I remembered.

Quote
But that's not the entire market.  It's not even a majority.
@ Don: It does imply that 16 year old teenage boys are Theory11's main audience or as you put it "majority". D&D is not Theory11 but sell products to many of the same customers. In terms of target marketing is concerned, obviously they don't market to one single segment but it does "help to explain" the logic behind product descriptions for those in or around that segment.

Quote
I have stated my opinion about D&D but just want to add how I find it ironic that the same people bashing them are ordering BRICKS from them.
@ Ben K: I'm not sure who your comments are directed at? From what I can tell, I'm the only one who mentioned buying a brick of New Fan Backs. I don't see how what I wrote about the Steamboats would be considered bashing. I certainly would not boycott D&D. I have enjoyed many of their products.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 01:14:53 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2013, 01:52:59 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Quote from: Andrei Jikh on http://       unitedcardists.com        Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:12 pm
Quote
At the end of the day, we're an online magic company that makes magic tricks. Our main audience is 16 year old teenage boys. How much simpler does it get? We're not illuminati looking to make a quick profit from your $6.95. Seriously?
@ Don: Yes, I misquoted what was written by Andrei Jikh. I'm sure I don't have to explain this but I'm going to say it anyway. I write on this forum and others because I enjoy doing so. Unfortunately in this format I don't always take the time to do full research. I went with what I thought I remembered.

Quote
But that's not the entire market.  It's not even a majority.
@ Don: It does imply that 16 year old teenage boys are Theory11's main audience or as you put it "majority". D&D is not Theory11 but sell products to many of the same customers. In terms of target marketing is concerned, obviously they don't market to one single segment but it does "help to explain" the logic behind product descriptions for those in or around that segment.


At least you admitted getting the quote wrong.  Points for that.

But if you're trying to tell me that the MAJORITY (greater than 50%) of either D&D's customers or T11's customers are 16-year-old boys, there's a really pretty bridge downtown I'd like to offer you with low monthly payments available...  "Main audience" and "majority" are NOT the same thing.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 01:53:29 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2013, 11:44:40 AM »
 

blastercast

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I'd like to chime in here then!
I am a 15 year old male and I personally have no issue with theory11 on certain fronts. Dan and Dave produce some beautiful and great handling decks, and I can speak truthfully here I own a lot of cards and some of theirs just are amazing!
But other times Dan and Dave really do just make shovelware decks, shovelware being produced cheap and sold :') I'm not going to boycott them for it, in the end of the day they have to make a buck or two :')
Their customer support is excellent, same with theory11! As for theory11 for magic they aren't worth it, I own smoke and that's excellent but I know Alan and knew how it worked so figured why not :')
Theory11 have produced some good decks but mainly shovelware :')
I don't believe either company is in the wrong and I will probably end up buying one of each of these decks to see how they handle because I have found that Dan and Dave decks usually feel great!
Sorry for sort of interjecting here!
-Benny
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2013, 06:08:51 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yeah, this topic's wandering on a long, deep tangent.  Perhaps we can rein it in a bit and stay on the topic at hand: the Steamboats and New Fan Backs produced by D&D.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2013, 06:22:38 PM »
 

agera94

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The fan backs would be interesting to try out. Is there anything really different compared to say the ones by Zenneth?
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2013, 06:57:29 PM »
 

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The fan backs would be interesting to try out. Is there anything really different compared to say the ones by Zenneth?

This is strictly guesswork, but I don't think Zenneth's NFBs had Magic Finish on them.  These days, Magic Finish is the default for custom decks.  I smelled it on an Ace Fulton's deck and a S&M v7 deck - it has a distinctly different scent to the standard finish they use on their mass-produced decks at USPC.  These probably have Magic Finish.  I've never smelled MF on the Gold Seal decks.

Also, Zen used a rather old, classic Bicycle Ace of Spades.  I have no idea if D&D will use the same.  And he packed his deck with a pair of gaffs: a "0 of Hearts" card and a double-backer (white-black in the black deck, all white in the white deck).  The 0H card was used for two different versions of a unique trick - the English version resulted in an upside down fan of 3, A, 0 & 7 of hearts (spells the word "love ") and I'm told that in Mandarin, the number "420" sounds like the word for love, so that version of the trick is a 4, 2 & 0 of hearts fanned upright.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2013, 01:35:22 PM »
 

shz

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Quick question....how much are the old Cincinnati steamboat decks worth?
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2013, 07:24:53 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Quick question....how much are the old Cincinnati steamboat decks worth?

Quicker question - did you look on eBay?  :))

This is a long-running brand - Cincinnati Steamboats go back many years, and as such you'd need to narrow it down to a particular time frame before checking price.  A 1925 deck and a 2005 deck will have wildly different values...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 07:26:14 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2013, 09:51:48 PM »
 

shz

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Yes, and to practically no avail, which is why asked people that were actually knowledgeable about them.
The only (hopefully) relevant info is the number in question, steamboat 999 (hoping that number can help determine the year of production).
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2013, 08:34:24 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yes, and to practically no avail, which is why asked people that were actually knowledgeable about them.
The only (hopefully) relevant info is the number in question, steamboat 999 (hoping that number can help determine the year of production).

I found Steamboats on eBay just before writing that post; some vintage, some less so.

The number "999" is a model number, just like Congress 606, Tigers 101, and Bicycle 808.  It won't help you find the year.  The best shot you have for guess the year is looking at the tax stamp and (if unsealed) checking the Ace of Spades for the AoS code.  If you haven't checked it out yet, look over the "Fact or Fiction" sticky topic at the top of the PCP.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2013, 08:38:15 AM »
 

Card Player

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Quote
But if you're trying to tell me that the MAJORITY (greater than 50%) of either D&D's customers or T11's customers are 16-year-old boys, there's a really pretty bridge downtown I'd like to offer you with low monthly payments available...  "Main audience" and "majority" are NOT the same thing.

@ Don: In this usage I am implying "majority segment" not majority of customers (more then 50%).
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2013, 10:08:54 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Quote
But if you're trying to tell me that the MAJORITY (greater than 50%) of either D&D's customers or T11's customers are 16-year-old boys, there's a really pretty bridge downtown I'd like to offer you with low monthly payments available...  "Main audience" and "majority" are NOT the same thing.

@ Don: In this usage I am implying "majority segment" not majority of customers (more then 50%).

So, what, precisely, is the difference between "majority segment" of their customers and "majority of their customers?  Remember that by definition, "marjority" is over 50%.  Any largest segment less than 50% is a plurality and implies there's more than two groups being compared, more than two candidates running for office, etc.

I get the feeling that Mr. Jikh was simply making generalizations without using actual specific facts.  The real audience is teens with disposable income (either working teens or born of well-heeled parents) and young adults with disposable income.  In other words, their customer base is "magicians and flourishers", because that's exactly what that describes.  The magic consumer base used to skew much older until magicians like David Blaine and Criss Angel made magic popular to a whole new (and much younger) audience, especially with the "street magic" style of tricks that could be performed nearly anywhere for a small audience.  And really - who hasn't met a young adult that acts more like a teenager?  :))

EDIT: got my package from D&D yesterday, finally opened them now.  They're what you'd expect - great fresh out of the box.  I smell Magic Finish on both the NFBs and the SBs, so the smooth SBs handle nicely, perhaps better than Aladdins.  The NFBs are like any Bicycle stock/MF deck - NOC decks are the same combination.  Whether these Steamboats are better than the recent issue decks remains to be seen - the older decks have the advantage of the dimpled paper but the Magic Finish also makes a difference.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 10:21:35 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2013, 02:30:47 PM »
 

Kong

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Thank you so much! as a matter of fact, everything you said make senses. We just update the back of the deck to give it a more medieval looks. It took us a while to rework every layer but it is totally worth it. We will update our kickstarter page once a while. Please come back and give us more precious advice. We want it to be perfect the moment we hold it in our hands.
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2013, 02:52:10 PM »
 

Knobz1

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Thank you so much! as a matter of fact, everything you said make senses. We just update the back of the deck to give it a more medieval looks. It took us a while to rework every layer but it is totally worth it. We will update our kickstarter page once a while. Please come back and give us more precious advice. We want it to be perfect the moment we hold it in our hands.
Hey bud, you put this in the wrong thread.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 02:55:11 PM by Knobz1 »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2013, 03:33:54 PM »
 

xela

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Thank you so much! as a matter of fact, everything you said make senses. We just update the back of the deck to give it a more medieval looks. It took us a while to rework every layer but it is totally worth it. We will update our kickstarter page once a while. Please come back and give us more precious advice. We want it to be perfect the moment we hold it in our hands.

Might want to double check on the thread you're posting things in before hitting "post" :P
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2013, 07:13:56 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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OK, enough with the mislaid post!  :))

Been playing more with the cards.  The NFBs are good, but not exceptionally different in handling than practically any other new custom Bike deck.  I like the gold accents on the box and the colors used on the faces - I tend to prefer darker colors.  Plus, who doesn't love the New Fan Back design?  It's among my favorite Bike backs.

The Steamboats, on the other hand, are pretty interesting.  Smooth deck, smooth handling and the stock reminds me of Tally Ho - it's firm without being overly so.  Smooth decks tend to be stiffer in general and this one's no exception, but it has good give when shuffling and I get the feeling that cardists might like this one.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2013, 10:36:49 PM »
 

sr15

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I am intrigued by the handling of the Steamboats. If it's similar to aladdins then I'd definitely be interested in getting some. For now I'll wait till a cardist does a review on them before I decide whether to get them or not. (HINT HINT CARDISTS GET TO IT)
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2013, 04:44:44 AM »
 

Angel_magic

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OK, enough with the mislaid post!  :))

Been playing more with the cards.  The NFBs are good, but not exceptionally different in handling than practically any other new custom Bike deck.  I like the gold accents on the box and the colors used on the faces - I tend to prefer darker colors.  Plus, who doesn't love the New Fan Back design?  It's among my favorite Bike backs.

The Steamboats, on the other hand, are pretty interesting.  Smooth deck, smooth handling and the stock reminds me of Tally Ho - it's firm without being overly so.  Smooth decks tend to be stiffer in general and this one's no exception, but it has good give when shuffling and I get the feeling that cardists might like this one.

Don, have you tried the older steamboats? If so, how do you think they compare?

Quick question....how much are the old Cincinnati steamboat decks worth?

Although they're quite hard to find on ebay (talking about the modern "old steamboats"), they normally only go for $10-20 which is surprising for a deck with that kind of apparent scarcity.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2013, 05:10:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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OK, enough with the mislaid post!  :))

Been playing more with the cards.  The NFBs are good, but not exceptionally different in handling than practically any other new custom Bike deck.  I like the gold accents on the box and the colors used on the faces - I tend to prefer darker colors.  Plus, who doesn't love the New Fan Back design?  It's among my favorite Bike backs.

The Steamboats, on the other hand, are pretty interesting.  Smooth deck, smooth handling and the stock reminds me of Tally Ho - it's firm without being overly so.  Smooth decks tend to be stiffer in general and this one's no exception, but it has good give when shuffling and I get the feeling that cardists might like this one.

Don, have you tried the older steamboats? If so, how do you think they compare?

I have some late-model Steamboats, which I think may have been made around the transition period - I'd have to go look at the box at home, but rest assured, they aren't vintage.  These are a little firmer and a bit slicker.  The smooth paper creates the added firmness - anyone who's shuffled the Cambric and Ivory varieties of the same deck knows what I'm talking about.  They really do remind me of Aladdins, or maybe a smooth-finish Tally Ho deck (a real rarity these days).  They have the flex and firmness of a Tally, but the smooth handling and fanning of an Aladdin.  They're also probably just a bit less slippery than most Magic Finish decks due to that lack of embossing on the paper - but seriously, it's not by much.

Quick question....how much are the old Cincinnati steamboat decks worth?

Although they're quite hard to find on ebay (talking about the modern "old steamboats"), they normally only go for $10-20 which is surprising for a deck with that kind of apparent scarcity.

I'm not as surprised by this.  Steamboats haven't been a major name brand for USPC in gods-know how many years.  Many if not most people alive today, if asked to name three brands of playing cards, would not think to answer Steamboats - or for that matter, they wouldn't even know the brand exists.  It's like Tally Ho in that sense, but even more unheard-of.  Outside of people on boards like this, the teeming masses rarely if ever see Tally Ho playing cards, so they have a good shot at not even knowing they exist.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2013, 06:33:54 AM »
 

Joker and the Thief

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I am intrigued by the handling of the Steamboats. If it's similar to aladdins then I'd definitely be interested in getting some. For now I'll wait till a cardist does a review on them before I decide whether to get them or not. (HINT HINT CARDISTS GET TO IT)

Fiiiine, we'll get to it! :))

We will be reviewing the originals soon.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM »
 

Card Player

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Been playing more with the cards.  The NFBs are good, but not exceptionally different in handling than practically any other new custom Bike deck.  I like the gold accents on the box and the colors used on the faces - I tend to prefer darker colors.  Plus, who doesn't love the New Fan Back design?  It's among my favorite Bike backs.

One thing I have to give D&D a great amount of credit for is that they always package my item's very well. They use top notch packing materials that I know add to their business experiences. Every single one of my items shows up in excellent condition. NO dings and NO dents. I can't say that about all company's I buy from in the industry.

I received my order of NFB's on Wednesday (brick: 6 red, 6 blue). The decks come factory sealed in cellophane with a "BLUE" USPCC seal. I really like the old school bicycle design and fonts used. The gold trim on the box was a nice touch. I have not had the opportunity to open a deck.  I too prefer the darker colors, most importantly dark red inks used on heart and diamond suits. Very happy with this purchase.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 09:06:33 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2013, 11:25:14 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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One thing I have to give D&D a great amount of credit for is that they always package my item's very well. They use top notch packing materials that I know add to their business experiences. Every single one of my items shows up in excellent condition. NO dings and NO dents. I can't say that about all company's I buy from in the industry.

I received my order of NFB's on Wednesday (brick: 6 red, 6 blue). The decks come factory sealed in cellophane with a "BLUE" USPCC seal. I really like the old school bicycle design and fonts used. The gold trim on the box was a nice touch. I have not had the opportunity to open a deck.  I too prefer the darker colors, most importantly dark red inks used on heart and diamond suits. Very happy with this purchase.

I concur on the packing - their stuff is practically bullet-proof.  I do believe you'll enjoy both of these decks.  The Steamboats have that "lightly aged" background D&D are fond of rather than being stark white.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2013, 06:10:55 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I've finally done a side-by-side comparison with the D&D Steamboats and the Cincinnati USPC Steamboats.

The USPC model is a good performer, with a stock I'd compare with a slightly stiffer Tally Ho - but not as stiff as Bee.  A fine workhorse of a deck.

The D&D 'boats have nearly identical shuffling characteristics to the USPC's.  Surprisingly, the stock feels thinner, even lighter.  It also has better glide, too.  I think they made (whether intentionally or not) some smart choices with the design of this deck.

The lightness of the stock is compensated for by the use of smooth paper stock, giving it that same spring.  The addition of Magic Finish more than compensates for the "cling" most smooth stocks have - I find it fans better than the original.

The one thing some might find off-putting is that the faces are that dingy pale green color like they used on the Vintage Plaids, in an effort to make them look old-ish but without making any changes to the modern faces to follow suit.

So yeah, I'd say overall the D&D version is just a little better than late-model versions of the originals.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2013, 10:07:37 PM »
 

PlayingKards

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If your going to buy this deck, I recommend buying it now! The price is going to go up according to d&d.
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2013, 09:24:53 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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well I bought a deck of the fans only because an original deck on the bay goes for over a hundred bucks (opened and used!) I already have a deck of original steamboats, but I am sure the D & D decks will handle nicely.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2013, 02:24:30 PM »
 

Ben K

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Quote
I have stated my opinion about D&D but just want to add how I find it ironic that the same people bashing them are ordering BRICKS from them.
@ Ben K: I'm not sure who your comments are directed at? From what I can tell, I'm the only one who mentioned buying a brick of New Fan Backs. I don't see how what I wrote about the Steamboats would be considered bashing. I certainly would not boycott D&D. I have enjoyed many of their products.
[/quote]

I wasn't directed at anyone, just speaking in general. I'm not sure but I think a few post may have been deleted.

I've finally done a side-by-side comparison with the D&D Steamboats and the Cincinnati USPC

Don, what year where your old steamboats produced? You said transition period but I am not familiar.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2013, 12:07:07 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I wasn't directed at anyone, just speaking in general. I'm not sure but I think a few post may have been deleted.

Not by me.  Perhaps the author(s) edited them?
I've finally done a side-by-side comparison with the D&D Steamboats and the Cincinnati USPC

Don, what year where your old steamboats produced? You said transition period but I am not familiar.

I did a little research and learned that Steamboats were a regular USPC brand up to the mid-late '90s when they were discontinued.  Popular demand led to a reprinting of the deck at some point in the '00s.  I have that reprinting, not the old-school originals.

The transition period is when USPC shuttered the old Cincinnati plant (actually in Norwood, OH) and moved across the Ohio River to Erlanger, KY.  It's just another suburb of Cincinnati, just like Norwood, but it's in a different state - and it actually puts the company closer to the local international airport.

The transition began at some point in 2009 during the move to the new plant with brand new machines.  While they were just about fully moved in around August or so, there was a while that they were using Cincinnati-labeled tucks and putting Erlanger-printed cards in them - if you have a deck of their standard brands from around that time with a black seal rather than blue or red, there's a good chance it was made in Kentucky.

Normally this wouldn't make a big difference, except for one thing: the staff at the print shop were still learning the ropes and tweaking the new hardware.  This resulted in some inferior-quality decks, both standard and custom.  This "breaking-in" phase didn't end until sometime late into 2010, by which point they'd pretty much used up the old Cincinnati tucks and were using ones stating the Erlanger address on them.

At this point, the decks they make now, particularly the custom models, exceed what they were capable of making in Ohio on the aging equipment there.  Bicycle Standard, however, is still a little on the soft side quality-wise, likely due to a decision by management to make the decks less costly to produce.  They probably lowered the "Q-level" (quality control) at which the decks are made; the levels go from lowest, Q5, up to Q1, with each better level higher adding up to more staff manning the machines to prevent errors in printing.  Most custom decks people deal with here are made at Q1.  In addition, they've started using a slightly thinner stock for the Standards as well as many custom decks - not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but some people prefer thicker cards.  The reason for that was they were having some difficulties with the new equipment and ink transfer to the paper - they found the thinner stock worked better.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 12:07:52 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2013, 09:42:17 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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D & D did something weird with my order and I got 2 fan backs by accident, I don't know whether I want a second fan back in blue or if I want to trade it in for the NEW steamboats, since I already have the old ones. I really love the box on these Fans though. I'd totally use these for an every day deck
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2013, 01:01:49 PM »
 

Michael

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D & D did something weird with my order and I got 2 fan backs by accident, I don't know whether I want a second fan back in blue or if I want to trade it in for the NEW steamboats, since I already have the old ones. I really love the box on these Fans though. I'd totally use these for an every day deck

Did you order one NFB and one Steamboat?

I do honestly love the new Steamboats. They feel great and is a pretty decent deck overall. I don't know how well they'll hold up because I only broke them in to my satisfaction and haven't used hem since.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2013, 05:16:59 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I just noticed something that left me a bit confused...

I guess this was the first time I broke out the maroon red NFBs and navy blue NFBs at the same time - otherwise I'm sure I would have spotted this before.

The maroon red deck has red cards that are similarly maroon/dark red in color, like casino decks.

The navy blue deck has red cards that are colored Bicycle/USPC standard red!  It's kind of bright in comparison and a little jarring if you see them side by side.

To me, that would make this deck pair terrible for poker and possibly a bad choice for certain color changes.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2013, 02:47:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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In the event anyone was interested, D&D are now selling both of these designs as part of their line of stripper decks, complete with cheesy "stripper on pole" deck seals, for $14.95 each, making them probably the cheapest strippers they've carried to date.

http://shop.dananddave.com/playing-cards/stripper-decks.html

They also appear to have either restocked or never quite sold out of their Arrco Tahoes in red and blue with serial-numbered deck seals.  They even have the cheesy foil wrapping that Dealing Deuces created!  $11.95 a pack, while they last...
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 02:50:26 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2013, 09:35:52 AM »
 

Pacis

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Thanks for the heads up.
I just love the backs on those Arrco Tahoes and the NFBs Red.
Have to get some of those soon.
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2013, 05:58:18 PM »
 

see_squared

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In the event anyone was interested, D&D are now selling both of these designs as part of their line of stripper decks, complete with cheesy "stripper on pole" deck seals, for $14.95 each, making them probably the cheapest strippers they've carried to date.

http://shop.dananddave.com/playing-cards/stripper-decks.html



You also get a standard deck of matching color with each stripper deck ordered (according to their site).
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2013, 09:40:09 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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In the event anyone was interested, D&D are now selling both of these designs as part of their line of stripper decks, complete with cheesy "stripper on pole" deck seals, for $14.95 each, making them probably the cheapest strippers they've carried to date.

http://shop.dananddave.com/playing-cards/stripper-decks.html



You also get a standard deck of matching color with each stripper deck ordered (according to their site).

You know, I'd forgotten that!  That makes these an even better bargain.  I'm simply curious if they're cut the same as the earlier stripper decks - those were professional-grade, with a very shallow cut to them.  It made them more difficult to use, but at the same time they were virtually impossible to detect.  I really liked them - I got a blue Bee Diamond Back and a EATCT deck with that cut.
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