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Which E bonus for Tier 3 and Tier 4 to get? (collectors point of view) and why?

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jhayel84

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Hi everyone


I am about to make a big order on Ellusionist but still deciding which bonus to get on Tier 3 and Tier 4?!


I am thinking of getting a red artifice for tier 3 and a bolted case for gold arcane on tier 4 but I am considering also the black ghost 1 ed.


Can you please help me decide? Please advise which deck you think is worth getting on tier 3 and tier 4 and why?


Your thoughts are much appreciated.


Thank you
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 11:37:52 AM by jhayel84 »
 

 

nimblewitted

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Personally, I'd go with the Black Ghost. Gold Arcanes are more recent and thus likely more available from Collectors. Black Ghost came out a while ago and these days seem to be much harder to get.
 

 

jhayel84

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Personally, I'd go with the Black Ghost. Gold Arcanes are more recent and thus likely more available from Collectors. Black Ghost came out a while ago and these days seem to be much harder to get.


black ghost 1 edition in bolted case? with Gold arcane or red artifice?
 

 

K

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Black ghost first ed plus the gold arcanes, red artifice are easier to come by nowadays, regret that I bought two  :(
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Lara Krystle "Lane"

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I agree with Black Ghost 1st Ed. its a much harder to find deck ^_^
 

 

hazofhorsham

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Gold arcane tier 3, black ghost first edition tier 4 in lucite case. The Ghosts are really rare and I have seen them go on ebay for around $300... Red artifice are about $80 odd.
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jhayel84

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hmmm seems black ghost 1st edition for tier 4 then gold arcane for tier 3.. Can the bolted case be removed?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 12:00:29 PM by jhayel84 »
 

 

NathanCanadas

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Yes, the bolted case could be removed but if you do open it, you lose about 100$ immediately.
I also think you should get the gold arcane for tier 3 and the black ghost ed. 1 in case for tier 4.
 

 

xZEROx

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Definitely the BG1E, for tier 4. As for tier 3, tactically you should get BG1E too. You could easily resale that for a lower price, and still be able to buy a GA or RA with some profit. But if you want to save the hassle, probably get the GA.
 

 

NathanCanadas

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Yes, above is a good point: if you want to resell them, you ought to have black ghosts 1ed for both tiers. But if you are planning on keeping them and not selling them, and you would like to have 2 different rare decks, you should get a black ghost 1ed in lucite case and a gold arcane for tier 3. Also, what are you going to be getting for tiers 1 and 2 and, mostly, what are you going to buy to reach tier 4?????? LOL
 

 

jhayel84

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Yes, above is a good point: if you want to resell them, you ought to have black ghosts 1ed for both tiers. But if you are planning on keeping them and not selling them, and you would like to have 2 different rare decks, you should get a black ghost 1ed in lucite case and a gold arcane for tier 3. Also, what are you going to be getting for tiers 1 and 2 and, mostly, what are you going to buy to reach tier 4? ??? ?? LOL


Im keeping them. Even I get 2 bg1e and sell 1 for at least $150 on ebay i dont think I can sell it for a lot to get 1 gold arcane and 1 red artifice. Mostly I bought card and porper clips, gaff cards and some UV500 cards to rack up to tier 4.. mind you I had a good discount so I only spent 375 as my total + shipping  :)
 

 

NathanCanadas

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Yes, above is a good point: if you want to resell them, you ought to have black ghosts 1ed for both tiers. But if you are planning on keeping them and not selling them, and you would like to have 2 different rare decks, you should get a black ghost 1ed in lucite case and a gold arcane for tier 3. Also, what are you going to be getting for tiers 1 and 2 and, mostly, what are you going to buy to reach tier 4? ??? ?? LOL


Im keeping them. Even I get 2 bg1e and sell 1 for at least $150 on ebay i dont think I can sell it for a lot to get 1 gold arcane and 1 red artifice. Mostly I bought card and porper clips, gaff cards and some UV500 cards to rack up to tier 4.. mind you I had a good discount so I only spent 375 as my total + shipping  :)
Yes, a black ghost 1ed is worth about 250$, a red artifice 70$ and a gold arcane 150$. A black ghost 1 ed in a lucite case is worth 350$, so, I highly recommend you get the black ghost 1 ed for both tiers, and you can sell either one and make both profit and have all the decks for your collection. It's a win, win! :D
 

 

phantom1412

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I think the black ghost 1st worth around 100-110$
Gold arcane 75$
Red artifice 50$

If I were able to choose 2, I would choose 2 black ghost for that.
Or 1 black ghost and 1 gold arcane, cause E did said they won't do the 75$ free gold arcane promotion anymore, but not on red artifice.

 

 

xZEROx

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Yes, a black ghost 1ed is worth about 250$, a red artifice 70$ and a gold arcane 150$. A black ghost 1 ed in a lucite case is worth 350$, so, I highly recommend you get the black ghost 1 ed for both tiers, and you can sell either one and make both profit and have all the decks for your collection. It's a win, win! :D

The BG1E is actually worth about $120, RA for about $60 and GA on the $80 mark and decreasing. BG1E would worth about $180.
 

 

Don Boyer

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Yes, the bolted case could be removed but if you do open it, you lose about 100$ immediately.
I also think you should get the gold arcane for tier 3 and the black ghost ed. 1 in case for tier 4.


Ah, no.  There's no way to tell if it's been opened.  I have two of them; they're just nuts and bolts, period.  It's actually designed to be opened.  I got a BG1E in a case and swapped it out for a Ltd. 'cause I already had another BG1E in case.


Gold Arcanes and Red Artifices are a lot lower in price than BG1E.  They go for roughly $50-60 a pack, BG1E averages about $200 on eBay (though you can get them for less in trades), at least as much from retailers.  It fluctuates, but there's been a lot of GA and RA on the market since the holidays.


I'd get the two BG1E decks and sit on them.  I think it was Marcus (an E employee) who mentioned their post-holidays stock on ALL the rare decks were heavily depleted with all the decks given away at the holidays.  As of last summer, before the RA went up for sale, E reported they had about 1,000 BG1E and 4,000 GA in stock.  There can't be all that many BG1Es left at E.  The RA stock has to be under 2,000, because they sold 3,000 the first day they were available.  I still have some of my original brick, plus I got one in November as a gift from Jason Brumbalow.  The Ltd. deck is anyone's guess, but it's not available so it doesn't matter.


To summarize, of all the three rare deck giveaways, BG1E is almost certainly in lowest supply (must be <1,000), followed by RA (must be <2,000) and GA (must be <4,000).  The GA's may be much lower than 4,000 because of the occasional $75 specials E has run, but I'd still say they probably have fewer RAs lying around by now.


When those BG1Es are gone, watch what happens to the price...  Get two and hang on to them; they won't (they CAN'T) last much longer.
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NathanCanadas

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Wow, I guess I am wrong about the prices, although I have seen many sales of GA for 150 and BG1ed for 250... My bad lol. And for the lucite case, a friend of mine has one, the problem is that if they see hand prints on the glass, it will be worth less.
 

 

Evan

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Well I have Gold Arcane and Red Artifice already. But if I didn't, I'd still go for the Black Ghost 1st Ed.
Its rarer, older, and more expensive.
 

 

xela

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So by abusing their free gifts a bit, I managed to get 8 LTD decks and 4 black ghosts for free. However, that sale is gone. Now what I advise doing is getting two Black Ghosts, one in the Lucite and one without. If you are a shelf collector like I am, you can sell the Lucite case for $40.

Black Ghosts are far more rare than the Gold Arcanes.
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dmbaggs

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Yeah I agree with Alex and the others that said it before me, I would go with the two BG1Es. It seems like the best offer and you can resell one if you don't need them both. No matter what you choose those you are winner! Those are all some awesome decks.
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jhayel84

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at the end I chose to get 1 gold arcane for tier 3 and 1 BG1E in bolted lucite case for tier 4. Even I get 2 BG1E.. sit it out until all BG1E is sold out then sell 1 BG1E on ebay for $$$$.. Realistically people wont spend that much  for 1 deck that is not that rare for now. I checked the current price on BG1E on ebay and the average price is $100. What more if I sell and bump the price up when its extinct from E's warehouse I doubt people will buy it for a high price (except for hardcore collectors) because when that happens the market will be flooded with sellers selling the same or higher amount.


At the end of the day its supply and demand. Why E cant just reprint all all rare* limited decks and release a real limited rare deck! They will in a perfect world! lol
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 07:57:33 PM by jhayel84 »
 

 

NathanCanadas

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at the end I chose to get 1 gold arcane for tier 3 and 1 BG1E in bolted lucite case. Even I get 2 BG1E.. sit it out until all BG1E is sold out then sell 1 BG1E on ebay for $$$$.. I doubt that someone will buy it for a certain amount except for hardcore collectors. Realistically people wont spend that much  for 1 deck that is not that rare. I checked the current price on BG1E and the average price is $100. What more if I bump the price when its extinct from E's warehouse I doubt people will buy it for a high price because when that happens the market will be flooded with sellers selling same or higher amount.
No offense, but I didn't understand a word you said, but I honestly think you should listen to what all of the collectors have to say, since they know EXACTLY what they are talking about.
 

 

phantom1412

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I understand what he said, and I agree that it's not easy to sale 100$ deck.
Maybe just getting a gold arcane and a bg1st is easier than get 2 bg, sell one and buy one gold arcane.

But I don't think market will be flooded with the bg 1st, that won't happen.
 

 

NathanCanadas

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I understand what he said, and I agree that it's not easy to sale 100$ deck.
Maybe just getting a gold arcane and a bg1st is easier than get 2 bg, sell one and buy one gold arcane.

But I don't think market will be flooded with the bg 1st, that won't happen.
Oh, I understand what he means. It is simpler his way, although it isn't worth as much. I don't, either, think the bg1ed will ever be worth much more since so many where printed, not too long ago, and these cards aren't EXCEPTIONAL.
 

 

Don Boyer

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At the end of the day its supply and demand. Why E cant just reprint all all rare* limited decks and release a real limited rare deck! They will in a perfect world! lol

Say what?

So, you're suggesting they reprint all rare limited decks and release a real limited rare deck?  Wow, I can drive a fleet of semis through the holes in that logic...

If they just "reprint" it, it's no longer rare, is it?  Nor is it all that limited, either.

They ALREADY have "real limited rare decks".  Four of them in fact, of which only three are in the gift tiers - Black Ghost 1st Edition, Gold Arcane and Red Artifice, in order of release.  The fourth, Ltd., was only made available over the holidays and the remaining stock - of which Marcus said there wasn't much left - would be given out as contest prizes.

Closest thing you'll ever find to a reprint is a second edition, like the Black Ghost.  They've already said there will be no Red Artifice 2nd Edition (to preserve the value of the 1st edition).  I'm sure the same logic would be applied to the Gold Arcane, which already exists in two other versions: black and white.

The only limited-edition deck they did that was a wholly-original idea was the Ltd. - and even that borrows elements from Artifice 2nd Ed.; they have standard faces and pips, but they use the same index font as the Artifice, and the back is an elegant, classy design with no fancy glyphs or cherubs riding bicycles.

But you chose what would make you happy, which in the end is what's really important, right?  Otherwise, why buy special custom-made playing cards at all?

Wow, I guess I am wrong about the prices, although I have seen many sales of GA for 150 and BG1ed for 250... My bad lol. And for the lucite case, a friend of mine has one, the problem is that if they see hand prints on the glass, it will be worth less.
 

The prices fluctuate.  At one point in history, a BG1E sold on eBay for $450.  I'm guessing that was before they were made available as gifts for buying merchandise.  Prices went down around the holidays because E was flooding the market with their rare decks through their holiday deals.  In a little time, prices will climb back up - and probably go back down, and up, and down...  But in the end, over longer periods, they'll become more scarce and more valuable.  Decks get worn or destroyed; not all of them sit in the hands of collectors under glass.

I understand what he said, and I agree that it's not easy to sale 100$ deck.
Maybe just getting a gold arcane and a bg1st is easier than get 2 bg, sell one and buy one gold arcane.

But I don't think market will be flooded with the bg 1st, that won't happen.
Oh, I understand what he means. It is simpler his way, although it isn't worth as much. I don't, either, think the bg1ed will ever be worth much more since so many where printed, not too long ago, and these cards aren't EXCEPTIONAL.

Wow - Nathan, hold on a sec.

Only 5,000 of these decks were made, period.  Not the smallest run, to be sure, but far from being a lot.  Originally, they weren't even available as tier gifts - they were given by the company to celebrities, magicians and celebrity magicians (  :))  ).  The only way to get one was to have it given to you by E - no amount of buying anything would do it.  These decks are in the collections of some of the most famous magicians alive today because of this.

There's a certain cachet attached to ownership of one of these decks as a result of that initial campaign.  It meant being one of the few, one of the best.  Granted, that hasn't been true for a little while now, but the cachet remains nonetheless.

The design isn't exceptional - by today's standards.  But when it was made, it was phenomenally popular - remember, it was before the market totally exploded in the last few years, and custom decks were still pretty few and far between.  The deck has become more than simply a deck - it's a cultural artifact, that culture being magicians, cardists and collectors.  When viewed with the proper perspective, they are indeed very exceptional.

Trust me, when the deck is no longer available from the source, you'll see the price going significantly higher than it is now.  I'd predict that based on the info I've read, the deck will be either totally gone by year's end, or yanked from the gift tiers and granted only as contest prizes.

Have you ever seen a sought-after limited deck plummet that far in price AFTER they were no longer available from the manufacturer?  It would only happen as it has in the past few months with the Ltd. deck, because the market got absolutely flooded with them in a very short time.  Prices are down on BG1E now because of that same flood, as are Red Artifice and Gold Arcane.
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jhayel84

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At the end of the day its supply and demand. Why E cant just reprint all all rare* limited decks and release a real limited rare deck! They will in a perfect world! lol

Say what?

So, you're suggesting they reprint all rare limited decks and release a real limited rare deck?  Wow, I can drive a fleet of semis through the holes in that logic...

If they just "reprint" it, it's no longer rare, is it?  Nor is it all that limited, either.

They ALREADY have "real limited rare decks".  Four of them in fact, of which only three are in the gift tiers - Black Ghost 1st Edition, Gold Arcane and Red Artifice, in order of release.  The fourth, Ltd., was only made available over the holidays and the remaining stock - of which Marcus said there wasn't much left - would be given out as contest prizes.

Closest thing you'll ever find to a reprint is a second edition, like the Black Ghost.  They've already said there will be no Red Artifice 2nd Edition (to preserve the value of the 1st edition).  I'm sure the same logic would be applied to the Gold Arcane, which already exists in two other versions: black and white.

The only limited-edition deck they did that was a wholly-original idea was the Ltd. - and even that borrows elements from Artifice 2nd Ed.; they have standard faces and pips, but they use the same index font as the Artifice, and the back is an elegant, classy design with no fancy glyphs or cherubs riding bicycles.

But you chose what would make you happy, which in the end is what's really important, right?  Otherwise, why buy special custom-made playing cards at all?


lol. what I meant is if E will reprint those recently released rare decks again people can actually have a chance to use it and not just to collect dust. And IMHO E has not really released a RARE deck.. sure its limited of 5000 or 3000 but that is still many.. my definition of rare is hard to find high quality item that has real value and not just because its worth a lot of $$$

Of course it wont be rare if it was to be reprinted again (duh) and If E will reprint those decks I am certain people will buy them in a whim and will still look good on their balance sheet.. If ever it happens it is a win-win for everyone except for greedy people who just want to make a profit out of it. lol

[size=78%]I am certainly sure that most people would agree on this. I say reprint those decks so everyone can use them and not only reserved for people who got a lot $$$ to shell out.[/size]
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 11:25:13 AM by jhayel84 »